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A Gospel of TRUTH, UNITY & UNCONDITIONAL LOVE / God's Unconditional Love For Us. / If God's Love Is Unconditional (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Christianity: Unconditional Love by Scholar8200(m): 3:03pm On Jun 10, 2016 |
udatso: He loved them before the call to obey meaning they did not fulfill any condition to be loved. Of course if they rebelled He will still love them and call them but He wont force them, they would be forsaking Him and the love HE has for them! The parable of the prodigal son comes up here. The prodigal left the comfort of the father's house and suffered (a consequence). There is a consequence if we make the wrong choices! Am I wrong? Did not Peter deny Him? Did not Peter and the rest forsake Him to go and fish? Did they drown for not being obedient? Didnt He LOVINGLY attend to their need and even prepared breakfast for them? But let's say after all this they still rejected Him, well there is NO middle ground! Choosing evil is just by rejecting good. And the consequence of our choices are part of the package. See, if they do not obey it will mean they forsake His love. If He had said, keep my commands so that I can continue loving you that will have being a different issue. Now consider: 13 [Now] before the Passover Feast began, Jesus knew (was fully aware) that the time had come for Him to leave this world and return to the Father. And as He had loved those who were His own in the world, He loved them to the last and to the highest degree. 2 So [it was] during supper, Satan having already put the thought of betraying Jesus in the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, John 13:1,2 He loved them even when one of them had planned to betray Him and He knew! He loved them even when they were all going to forsake Him at the period of trial and one was even going to curse and swear that he never knew Him, and He knew!!! 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Christianity: Unconditional Love by udatso: 3:44pm On Jun 10, 2016 |
Scholar8200:I think this is no longer a debate as I have stated earlier in two of my previous post below . I don't like you dragging us back udatso:And udatso: The difference here is our conclusions. I concluded that if we refuse to do as God commanded we will face His wrath (hate, the effect of no love) hence punishment , no? . You on the other hand still see the the punishment as Love.
Yes. That consequence is God's wrath in the afterlife. And I'd God's wrath for His chosen( those He Loves) ? Am I wrong? Did not Peter deny Him? Did not Peter and the rest forsake Him to go and fish? Did they drown for not being obedient? Didnt He LOVINGLY attend to their need and even prepared breakfast for them?I would appreciate it if you don't keep dragging us back. I have already addressed this in the post below So I really don't see why you are rejecting this simple truth. But let's say after all this they still rejected Him, well there is NO middle ground! Choosing evil is just by rejecting good. And the consequence of our choices are part of the package.Yes, therefore those who reject God face his Wrath not love. Why can't you accept this? Except of course that's exactly what happened. See it here udatso: Now consider:I have already addressed this. It's true even before/ as /after we disobey Him, he knows but he doesn't punish us yet giving us time to repent. Eventually when such a person dies and didn't do as asked by God, he receives punishment. Hence wrath 2 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Christianity: Unconditional Love by udatso: 3:56pm On Jun 10, 2016 |
Scholar8200:Which part is wrong here? What's definition of covenant? God loved them based on the abarahamic covenant. But God now outlines what would make this convent void hence the conditions I am sure by now you must have learnt that using humans love to describe God's love doesn't work out for you. You tried it in the judge son example, it didn't work. You equally tried it in the father son Going Out example and it didn't work too. Now did God hate all others since He did not make a covenant with them? Job, for example was not an Israelite and he was greatly blessed by God!The issue of fate if those God didn't make covenant with is a different issue. Let's tackle one problem at a time 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Christianity: Unconditional Love by Scholar8200(m): 10:33am On Jun 11, 2016 |
udatso:The ,''obey me and I will love you'' part! Deuteronomy 7:7 refutes that view. An agreement wherein each plays his role. This was necessary in God's dealing with them because He never forces His benefits on us. Their keeping to the covenant was an indication that they were still interested in being joined to Him and His purposes for them. God loved them because that is His nature. On what basis then did God love Abraham, or Enoch, or Job, or the ante-deluvian world whom He warned severally before sending the flood? (LOVE delays judgement deserved to the point that it will be injustice to delay it any longer! Meanwhile, LOVE does all possible to make the offender repent!) The promise to Abraham was never made void by the Mosaic covenant. In fact the New Covenant is still based on God's Promise to Abraham! That's still your opinion! Even the Bible uses the known to illustrate the spiritual eg the Parables of Jesus!. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Christianity: Unconditional Love by udatso: 8:51am On Jun 12, 2016 |
Scholar8200:Okay. Let me rephrase. The "obey me and I will continue to love you" is that wrong too? An agreement wherein each plays his role. This was necessary in God's dealing with them because He never forces His benefits on us. Their keeping to the covenant was an indication that they were still interested in being joined to Him and His purposes for them.You forgot to add, if either refuses to play his role, the agreement becomes null and void
Deut. 4:37, And because he loved thy fathers, therefore he chose their seed after them, and brought thee out in his sight with his mighty power out of Egypt; It's pointed out here as well as deut 7 that the Lord's treatment of Israel is based on His love for their fathers [Abraham, Isaac, Jacob]. A little later the Lord expresses His love for Israel as a nation,
True I can't force you to see the difference. I noticed you ignored the questions I asked in my replies. |
Re: Christianity: Unconditional Love by Scholar8200(m): 7:50am On Jun 13, 2016 |
udatso:Now since He loved them before they started obeying Him, His call to obedience is because if they did otherwise, He may warn them of the consequences of their choice and delay same but not forever lest it becomes injustice. At such time, He gives them up ,in love, to the consequences of their choices which He had attempted to shield them from. I said HE does that in love because HE expects that will bring them, not to destruction, but to repentance. The Bible is replete with such examples of Israel's rebellion and repentance. A good example is the quote from 2 Chronicles 34:15 earlier in this thread. No, it only begets a broken covenant with room for a restoration if there is repentance on the part of the defaulting party. Only God Who initiated the OT had the power to disannull it and He made it clear He would in Jeremiah 31:31. And those fathers had neither covenant nor laws to obey to earn that love. They simply responded to the overtures (which many rejected Romans 1:21-23) of God's Love and walked with Him by faith. Kindly re-quote them. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Christianity: Unconditional Love by udatso: 5:31pm On Jun 19, 2016 |
Scholar8200: And at the end, the disobedient ones would not be rewarded with love. Do you deny this?
And when there's no repentance, No love for the unrepentant. That's the conclusion you are avoiding
The point is covenant or no covenant, the unrepentant would earn his wrath in the afterlife. Again, do you disagree with this? No time necessary, I have asked them again in this reply |
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