udatso:
Cc:tola9ja Rilwayne001 Empiree Demmzy15 Ypeace Lexiconkabir Carinmom Sino vedaxcool Tartar9 Mustymatic Yazach haffaze777

Present sir.where dem dey nah?make dem come explain am

Unconditional love means loving without condition. It simply implies the absence of judgement and punishment. It also implies being capable of allowing people we love make decisions which opposes our views without judging them. These kind of love is absent in Christianity.

ifenes:
Unconditional love means loving without condition. It simply implies the absence of judgement and punishment. It also implies being capable of allowing people we love make decisions which opposes our views without judging them. These kind of love is absent in Christianity.

Yep, and Islam.

I'm confused about why this thread exists. It looks like Muslims trying to point fingers at Christians when their doctrines are both flawed in the same way. It's clear that neither Yahweh or Allah display unconditional love. The "love" (if you can even call it that honestly) that both god characters offer is blatantly conditional, and that condition is "worship me, and only me, until you die".

cloudgoddess:

Yep, and Islam.

I'm confused about why this thread exists. It looks like Muslims trying to point fingers at Christians when their doctrines are both flawed in the same way. It's clear that neither Yahweh or Allah display unconditional love. The "love" (if you can even call it that honestly) that both god characters offer is blatantly conditional, and that condition is "worship me, and only me, until you die".

And when did muslims claim "unconditional love"?

cloudgoddess:

Yep, and Islam.

I'm confused about why this thread exists. It looks like Muslims trying to point fingers at Christians when their doctrines are both flawed in the same way. It's clear that neither Yahweh or Allah display unconditional love. The "love" (if you can even call it that honestly) that both god characters offer is blatantly conditional, and that condition is "worship me, and only me, until you die".

Yes and Islam. Conditional love is all you will find in both Qur'an and the Bible....Love me or die-kind of love. And the followers follow this rules due to fear of punishments promised them. No free will what so ever.

Scholar8200 malvisguy212
Now that we have established that God will punish the unbelievers on judgement day, can we still say God loves them as He punishes them?

udatso:
Scholar82000 malvisguy212
Now that we have established that God will punish the unbelievers on judgement day, can we still say God loves them as He punishes them?

If you read scholar post very well, you will not say this. This is what he say:

"Does God love those who rejects Christ? Yes.
Does His Love mean He will alter His Justice to
accommodate their rebellion? NO (else satan
deserves an unreserved apology and a
reinstatement!). If a man rejects God's
revelation about Jesus and dies and finds
himself in the devil's destination, who do we
blame? The man!"

cloudgoddess:

Yep, and Islam.

I'm confused about why this thread exists. It looks like Muslims trying to point fingers at Christians when their doctrines are both flawed in the same way. It's clear that neither Yahweh or Allah display unconditional love. The "love" (if you can even call it that honestly) that both god characters offer is blatantly conditional, and that condition is "worship me, and only me, until you die".

Romans 5:8New International Version (NIV)
8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in
this: While we were STILL SINNERS, Christ died for
us.

malvisguy212:
If you read scholar post very well, you will not say this. This is what he say:

"Does God love those who rejects Christ? Yes.

Probably you need to take a look at thIs :

Romans 8:38-39

38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
This clearly tells us that there are those who will be separated from the love of God. In summary, the Bible God doesn't love everyone.

Does His Love mean He will alter His Justice to
accommodate their rebellion? NO (else satan
deserves an unreserved apology and a
reinstatement!). If a man rejects God's
revelation about Jesus and dies and finds
himself in the devil's destination, who do we
blame? The man!"

Yes. No one is blaming God. But the obvious truth you are trying to avoid is that THE MAN LOST THE LOVE OF GOD BECAUSE OF HIS ACTIONS. I.E GOD DIDNT LOVE HIM= NOT ALL ARE LOVED BY GOD



@ bold: that's what we call condition statement
In programming If(Condition statement is satisfied ){
Do so did and so};
Else{do so so and so }


For exampleif(human==believer){
receive God's love
}else{
No love
}





Modified
Malvisguy212

udatso:

I think you are avoiding the question. Let me reframe it.
Is part of showing love punishing sinners?

ifenes:
Unconditional love means loving without condition. It simply implies the absence of judgement and punishment. It also implies being capable of allowing people we love make decisions which opposes our views without judging them.

an atheist know unconditional love more than a muslim ? Smh. If you Love me unconditionally, you will find a way to save me from punishment that is coming my way.

malvisguy212:
an atheist know unconditional love more than a muslim ? Smh. If you Love me unconditionally, you will find a way to save me from punishment that is coming my way.

Why didn't you quote her completely. You only quote the one that favours you. Here's the complete quote

ifenes:
Unconditional love means loving without condition. It simply implies the absence of judgement and punishment. It also implies being capable of allowing people we love make decisions which opposes our views without judging them. These kind of love is absent in Christianity.

Keep lying to yourself

udatso:

Why didn't you quote her completely. You only quote the one that favours you. Here's the complete quote


Keep lying to yourself

I remove it because that was his own opinion.

malvisguy212:
Romans 5:8New International Version (NIV)
8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in
this: While we were STILL SINNERS, Christ died for
us.

malvisguy212:
I remove it because that was his own opinion.

In other words, you only use the opinion that benefit you. What does that tell about you?

udatso:

Probably you need to take a look at thIs :

Romans 8:38-39

38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
This clearly tells us that there are those who will be separated from the love of God. In summary, the Bible God doesn't love everyone.

Yes. No one is blaming God. But the obvious truth you are trying to avoid is that THE MAN LOST THE LOVE OF GOD BECAUSE OF HIS ACTIONS. I.E GOD DIDNT LOVE HIM= NOT ALL ARE LOVED BY GOD

Malvisguy212
Considering the fact that in your reply you didn't address the coloured, should I assume you agree with me on this?

a god that love unconditionally don't need law or doctrine and will never judge anybody

malvisguy212:
Romans 5:8New International Version (NIV)
8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in
this: While we were STILL SINNERS, Christ died for
us.

Do people who don't believe in Yahweh or the divinity of Christ recieve this love? Not just atheists, but people of other religions that do not subscribe to the bible's description of god?

udatso:
Scholar8200 malvisguy212
Now that we have established that God will punish the unbelievers on judgement day, can we still say God loves them as He punishes them?

On judgement day, they will be allowed to face the consequence of the choice they made as it will be unjust to deny them while allowing the devil! They chose the way of the devil and would justly be released to share his destination! Would God do this in hatred? NO! He loves them, but would not be unjust towards ANY!

OgundeleT:
a god that love unconditionally don't need law or doctrine and will never judge anybody

This your definition of love looks like love has no room for truth!

Would you consider a father unloving if he whacks/sternly rebukes a son bent on following the path of self-destruction? Love expresses itself by rebuke , correction and instruction for the good of the receiver.

OgundeleT:
a god that love unconditionally don't need law or doctrine and will never judge anybody

This your definition of love looks like love has no room for truth!

Would you consider a father unloving if he whacks/sternly rebukes a son bent on following the path of self-destruction? Love expresses itself, among others, by rebuke , correction and instruction for the good of the receiver.

17 [size=15pt]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart[/size]: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

Leviticus 19:17

Scholar8200:


This your definition of love looks like love has no room for truth!

if of has a room for truth then it will be stated and in such a case we don't call such a love unconditional, but a conditional love. if you love your child unconditionally you don't need to give such a child law since if he/she err u cant hurt or punish the child because irrespective of the condition you will always love the child

Scholar8200:

Would you consider a father unloving if he whacks/sternly rebukes a son bent on following the path of self-destruction? Love expresses itself, among others, by rebuke , correction and instruction for the good of the receiver.

i wont, but i will call such a love a conditional one and the proper one because such a father must have let the child know the conditions involve and the penalties

Scholar8200:

17 [size=15pt]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart[/size]: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

Leviticus 19:17

these are conditions and whoever wrote it for his/her child before loving such a child has given conditions and we can no more call it unconditional love.
so if god exist and love it is unconditional

OgundeleT:

if of has a room for truth then it will be stated and in such a case we don't call such a love unconditional, but a conditional love. if you love your child unconditionally you don't need to give such a child law since if he/she err u cant hurt or punish the child because irrespective of the condition you will always love the child

So, a law such as,"dont stay out late at night" given because the father knows the dangers that the child might be exposed to is a sign of a conditional love? I dont think so. Rather it is a sign of love. If the child disobeys and gets attacked, will you count that a punishment from the father?

i wont, but i will call such a love a conditional one and the proper one because such a father must have let the child know the conditions involve and the penalties

Rather I see it as an expression of love that realizes that there are more than just you too in the whole universe and not all loves the child just as the father does! Besides the father's unconditional love calls for the rebuke. The father does not rebuke the son so that the latter would change and become lovable; he rebukes because he loves the son so much and would not bear to watch him destroy himself!

these are conditions and whoever wrote it for his/her child before loving such a child has given conditions and we can no more call it unconditional love.
so if god exist and love it is unconditional

You rebuke your brother because you love him, crystal clear!

Not that you rebuke your brother so that he can become lovable when he changes. This is clear enough.

cloudgoddess:

Do people who don't believe in Yahweh or the divinity of Christ recieve this love? Not just atheists, but people of other religions that do not subscribe to the bible's description of god?

YES, the door is open for EVERYONE, including you.

“Behold! I stand at the door and knock. IF
any man hears my voice and opens the
door, I will come in and dine with him, and
he with me.” ( Revelation 3:20 NIV)

Their is something you need to understand here, the word "IF" imply it is a decision you need to make,and this decision must comes from your heart, it is NOT by force." If anyone here my voice" why did jesus say this ? Because He leaves it up to us whether to open the door and invite Him in or not, this invitation is open to EVERYONE, ALL religious people.

“He came into the very world He created,
but the world didn’t recognize Him. He came
to his own people, and even they rejected
Him. But to all who believed Him and
accepted Him, He gave the right to become
children of God.” John 1:10-12

The reason jesus knock at your door, He came for the relationship.

OgundeleT:

if of has a room for truth then it will be stated and in such a case we don't call such a love unconditional, but a conditional love. if you love your child unconditionally you don't need to give such a child law since if he/she err u cant hurt or punish the child because irrespective of the condition you will always love the child

i wont, but i will call such a love a conditional one and the proper one because such a father must have let the child know the conditions involve and the penalties

these are conditions and whoever wrote it for his/her child before loving such a child has given conditions and we can no more call it unconditional love.
so if god exist and love it is unconditional

has atheism block your sense of reasoning ? I wept for you, so after the father has commanded the son NOT to go out at night, the son disobey and got attack by robbers, you will blame the father ? Are you guys insane ? Smh

malvisguy212:
YES, the door is open for EVERYONE, including you.

“Behold! I stand at the door and knock. IF
any man hears my voice and opens the
door, I will come in and dine with him, and
he with me.” ( Revelation 3:20 NIV)

Their is something you need to understand here, the word "IF" imply it is a decision you need to make,and this decision must comes from your heart, it is NOT by force." If anyone here my voice" why did jesus say this ? Because He leaves it up to us whether to open the door and invite Him in or not, this invitation is open to EVERYONE, ALL religious people.

“He came into the very world He created,
but the world didn’t recognize Him. He came
to his own people, and even they rejected
Him. But to all who believed Him and
accepted Him, He gave the right to become
children of God.” John 1:10-12

The reason jesus knock at your door, He came for the relationship.

Any "if" signifies a condition.

cloudgoddess:

Any "if" signifies a condition.

Did he force you to open the door ? IF you don't open the door, you will die, that a condition.

Scholar8200:
On judgement day, they will be allowed to face the consequence of the choice they made as it will be unjust to deny them while allowing the devil! They chose the way of the devil and would justly be released to share his destination! Would God do this in hatred? NO! He loves them, but would not be unjust towards ANY!

True. But what you're still afraid to say is that they lost the love of God as a result of their actions. It doesn't make sense for you to say God loves them even as they burn for eternity in hell.
Perhaps the verse below wouLd help you get my point
Romans 8:38-39

38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

This verse tells us how God's saints will never be separated from the love of God because those saints take Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
If that is the case, this means that there are those who do not believe in Christ Jesus as Lord and such will be separated from the love of God.


How can you still say The biblical God loves the unbelievers even as they are roasted In hell for eternity?

malvisguy212:
Did he force you to open the door ? IF you don't open the door, you will die, that a condition.

So because there is a condition, then by definition the love being offered is conditional. Do you understand?

Scholar8200:


This your definition of love looks like love has no room for truth!

Would you consider a father unloving if he whacks/sternly rebukes a son bent on following the path of self-destruction? Love expresses itself by rebuke , correction and instruction for the good of the receiver.

I think your comparison is flawed. If a parent disciplines a child, it's for correction purpose. But is it Thesame when a non believer will be in hellfire for ever? How will he learn from his mistake?

cloudgoddess:

So because there is a condition, then by definition the love being offered is conditional. Do you understand?

this how you interpret bible which lead you to your present state of belief, listen!!

Jesus is not just talking about a door. He is
talking about a door which is initially CLOSED. This is a closed door which is both keeping us IN, and keeping Jesus OUT. It is a barrier separating us. But once the door is opened, then it is no longer a barrier. It is then a gateway. It is a point of entry. So here we have a closed door which is a barrier. But IF any one will open it, it is no longer a barrier. It is then a gateway. Understand ?

Scholar8200:
So, a law such as,"dont stay out late at night" given because the father knows the dangers that the child might be exposed to is a sign of a conditional love? I dont think so. Rather it is a sign of love. If the child disobeys and gets attacked, will you count that a punishment from the father?

Again your comparison is not compatible. If the child disobeys, it isn't the father that will attack him. But in the case of Yahweh, he created hell and he will be the one to dump the disobedient one inside.

Rather I see it as an expression of love that realizes that there are more than just you too in the whole universe and not all loves the child just as the father does! Besides the father's unconditional love calls for the rebuke. The father does not rebuke the son so that the latter would change and become lovable; he rebukes because he loves the son so much and would not bear to watch him destroy himself!

So burning him in Hell for eternity is a better way of showing this love. Am sure no matter what you do, your father will not ask for your head. This is unconditional. It's true that isn't justice but that's what makes something to be unconditional. The moment you describe God's love as unconditional, you are contradicting yourself in many ways. Perhaps you should pick another English word to describe this kind of love

You rebuke your brother because you love him, crystal clear!

Yes, so that he will be a better person. But on the other hand, Yahweh will punish unbelievers in hell with no chance of changing or becoming a better person

Not that you rebuke your brother so that he can become lovable when he changes. This is clear enough.[/quote]
When one is to be burnt in hell forever, is that how he will become lovable by God?

For the record, malvisguy212 has been ignoring my questions. You have the time to quote cloudgoddess. Just incase you didn't see the mention, I will repost them here again

udatso:

Probably you need to take a look at thIs :

Romans 8:38-39

38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
This clearly tells us that there are those who will be separated from the love of God. In summary, the Bible God doesn't love everyone.

Yes. No one is blaming God. But the obvious truth you are trying to avoid is that THE MAN LOST THE LOVE OF GOD BECAUSE OF HIS ACTIONS. I.E GOD DIDNT LOVE HIM= NOT ALL ARE LOVED BY GOD

Malvisguy212
Considering the fact that in your reply you didn't address the coloured, should I assume you agree with me on this?

udatso:

Probably you need to take a look at thIs :

Romans 8:38-39

38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
This clearly tells us that there are those who will be separated from the love of God. In summary, the Bible God doesn't love everyone.

Yes. No one is blaming God. But the obvious truth you are trying to avoid is that THE MAN LOST THE LOVE OF GOD BECAUSE OF HIS ACTIONS. I.E GOD DIDNT LOVE HIM= NOT ALL ARE LOVED BY GOD



@ bold: that's what we call condition statement
In programming If(Condition statement is satisfied ){
Do so did and so};
Else{do so so and so }


For exampleif(human==believer){
receive God's love
}else{
No love
}





Modified
Malvisguy212