Teewhyraul:


The Problem is still the Problem,
Nobody said that criteria for marriage is age, this is the assumed conclusion you jumped to carelessly and you are in for a free fall.

Like I said, if you want to talk about Islam, you should learn it first from the right sources, what will you call a Carpenter who's running his mouth on the tenets of Dentistry, the fact that the 2 professions use something that looks like a hammer doesn't mean you don't need to learn it before you run your mouth.

But since you are an Atheist, it's even worse...... People who don't stand for anything, fall for everything.

Please, Learn first and if you want to talk after, you can Holla.
Knowledge precedes Speech and Actions.

Teewhyraul:


It's the Jet age, you shouldn't need as much schooling as this, there are smart phones and gadgets everywhere.

I don't know the Religion you subscribe to, but marriage of younger women to far older men is a norm in the days of old. An example you may relate to is that of Mary (The mother of Jesus) and Joseph.

According to Christian Scholars, Mary was between the ages of 8 -12 when she was married to Joseph who was between 90-95 ....... They differ on the exact age, but that's the range.
One of the evidence from Catholic encyclopedia;
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm

If you are a Christian and you don't know this, then you should be ashamed of yourself, go learn your religion instead of trying to find holes in Islam.

Go Study boy, stop wasting away, Islam is Mercy to Mankind.
PS: Islam is not the same as Muslims, same way Christianity isn't the same as Christians.

Afrokan:

Why cant a woman be the Queen of Saudi, why cant a woman drive?

Millerz:
Per the bolded, are you dumb? Why is that common sense eludes Muslims in arguments? Can you not converse intellectually without dragging Christianity into this mess? when and where was it stated that Mary got married at ages 8-12??

Typical Al Yaquiya lying Muslim.

oyb:
the interesting thing is that by the tenets of Islam, there is no true Islamic country.
all muslim nations are ideally supposed to be a single caliphate

that is not happening.

what we have are monarchies.

also, there are no rights in most countries in the middle east.saudi arabia is the worst of the lot

women there have essentially zero rights. they cannot drive, they cannot go out without being accompanied by a man, they do practically nothing but get married then sit in a house and get fat.



Khadija the wife of the propeht [PBUH] was an established businesswoman. i doubt if you can find any women like that in Saudi arabia today. women's rights over there are taking baby steps. they only recently got some form of voting rights

Arabs are the world's greatest as-sholes. you think whites are racist, arabs are far worse. and they have very little respect for peoples rights etal. they regularly abuse second/third tier immigrants [uneducated bangladeshis, etc]

the Quran says a person with an atoms weight of pride will not enter Al Janah - Arabs have the pride thing on lockdown.

we all know the stories of their degenerate princes who do not behave in anyway like pious muslims, and who waste money like there is no tomorrow.

there are massive restrictions for the average citizen [ internet etc], but these do not apply to the ruling class.

My dad worked in Saudi Arabia for ten years. we used to go visiting once a year

what made my dad eventually leave; the UN passed a resolution that anyone who has worked ten years in a place is entitled to a pension. the arabs who are not down with that even though

The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said, "Give to the worker his wages before his sweat dries" (Ibn Majah).” (Al-A`raf 7:85), (Al-Mutaffifin 83:1-6) and (Ibn Majah).

immediately sacked all workers who had been employed for ten years with the plan of reemploying them as fresh hires. my dad realised he had been in saudi for ten years and decided it was enough.

off the cuff, i cant think of any arab country that truly practises Islam. they are mostly a bunch of corrupt monarchies who are able to keep the citizenry in check with oil money.

a better bet might be malaysia or indonesia or turkey ; though they too probably have their issues.

and yes, I am a Muslim.

this is not an endorsement of secular countries per se; they all have their issues - the US is not a particularly fantastic place if you are not a rich white man, but thats a story for another day.

Seun:
As a muslim, would you prefer to live in an Islamic country governed by Islamic laws and principles, rather than a secular country which defends the rights of women, muslims, christians, atheists, lesbians, gays, scantily clad babes, drinkers, and all minorities, and treats them equally?

If your answer is 'yes,' what are some of the ways in which you feel that an Islamic country would be better for your life than a secular country?

bittertruthz:


Hypocrisy is all i can say.................... Muslims prefer to live in western countries than muslim countries.

Farmerforlife:


Even if this particular picture was not photoshopped, dozens were...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-fake-refugee-images-that-are-being-used-to-distort-public-opinion-on-asylum-seekers-10503703.html

The Syrians are mostly in Turkey, Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, and the GCC countries. A piddling number are in Europe compared to the numbers that arent. Saying that they ALL prefer Europe to their neighbouring countries is, by virtue of numbers alone, dishonest.

There are probably more Pakistanis in SA than in the UK. If you cant understand that point, then I dont know how to explain it to you. Your view of migration is oversimplistic, and you dont seem to understand the difference between correlation and causation.

My point in mentioning Nigerians is to show you that people emigrate for reasons other than religious discomfort back home. Do emigrants from the SS or SE do so because of Sharia?

The rest of your rant is totally childish bigotry. I shall not deign to lower myself to responding to such nonsense. Obviously the sum total of your 'knowledge' of religion is gleaned from juvenile social fora, like facebook. You might do well to study the true political factors behind political unrest and religious violence. I might have provided you with the link that will enable you to read more scholarly books on the subject, but somehow, I believe that engaging in such study will be over your head.

Seun:
As a muslim, would you prefer to live in an Islamic country governed by Islamic laws and principles, rather than a secular country which defends the rights of women, muslims, christians, atheists, lesbians, gays, scantily clad babes, drinkers, and all minorities, and treats them equally?

If your answer is 'yes,' what are some of the ways in which you feel that an Islamic country would be better for your life than a secular country?

Farmerforlife:


I think that you should include a question as to how exposed the reponder is, to a Muslim country, or whether he/she has ever lived in one. Most have only heard about it from the western media (currently at war with anything Islam).

I for one, have visited many of the Gulf countries, and some in North Africa. Not all Muslim countries follow the shari'a, and their way of life is not significantly different from the secular countries....Turkey, Lebanon, Egypt, Morrocco and former Syria are examples... also I would imagine Far Eastern Muslim countries like Malaysia, Indonesia (I have not been there) etc to be the same. There are some cultural aspects that are better, such as higher morality, less exposure to perversions, better availability of mosques and Islamic schools, but the way of life of the majority of the people is mostly secular.

Shari'a compliant Muslim countries however, especially Saudi Arabia (but including Qatar, Kuwait etc), tend to be safer, though some would say they are too boring... no brothels, casinos, discos, bars etc. I really enjoyed my stay there. It is great for quiet time, introspection, you can expect honesty in most of your trade dealings (there is the ocassional sharp practice, but they are very wary of being caught). Food tends to be very cheap, as are practically all essentials. There is also safety, your kids can move around by themselves, negligible armed robbery or banditry. No one breaks into your house, even if you leave it open (you should see how gold shops display their wares openly like tomatoes).

All in all, I would love to stay there. My sticking point is that non citizens may not establish SMEs without a citizen as a partner, and I do not overly like partnerships. I hear that SA is opening up to foreign investment now, so I might still live there one day. And contrary to your implied belief, women do like it there also (apart from the inconvenience of not being able to drive in Saudi). My wife would prefer staying there any day (she doesnt care about the business aspect).

oyb:
the interesting thing is that by the tenets of Islam, there is no true Islamic country.
all muslim nations are ideally supposed to be a single caliphate

that is not happening.

what we have are monarchies.

also, there are no rights in most countries in the middle east.saudi arabia is the worst of the lot

women there have essentially zero rights. they cannot drive, they cannot go out without being accompanied by a man, they do practically nothing but get married then sit in a house and get fat.



Khadija the wife of the propeht [PBUH] was an established businesswoman. i doubt if you can find any women like that in Saudi arabia today. women's rights over there are taking baby steps. they only recently got some form of voting rights

Arabs are the world's greatest as-sholes. you think whites are racist, arabs are far worse. and they have very little respect for peoples rights etal. they regularly abuse second/third tier immigrants [uneducated bangladeshis, etc]

the Quran says a person with an atoms weight of pride will not enter Al Janah - Arabs have the pride thing on lockdown.

we all know the stories of their degenerate princes who do not behave in anyway like pious muslims, and who waste money like there is no tomorrow.

there are massive restrictions for the average citizen [ internet etc], but these do not apply to the ruling class.

My dad worked in Saudi Arabia for ten years. we used to go visiting once a year

what made my dad eventually leave; the UN passed a resolution that anyone who has worked ten years in a place is entitled to a pension. the arabs who are not down with that even though

The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said, "Give to the worker his wages before his sweat dries" (Ibn Majah).” (Al-A`raf 7:85), (Al-Mutaffifin 83:1-6) and (Ibn Majah).

immediately sacked all workers who had been employed for ten years with the plan of reemploying them as fresh hires. my dad realised he had been in saudi for ten years and decided it was enough.

off the cuff, i cant think of any arab country that truly practises Islam. they are mostly a bunch of corrupt monarchies who are able to keep the citizenry in check with oil money.

a better bet might be malaysia or indonesia or turkey ; though they too probably have their issues.

and yes, I am a Muslim.

this is not an endorsement of secular countries per se; they all have their issues - the US is not a particularly fantastic place if you are not a rich white man, but thats a story for another day.

lexiconkabir:


Well, to me thats wrong, once a wife is married to a husband, the rights of her guardian reduces over her, although we cant say, if its truly from from Wikipedia (you didnt post a link), doesnt mean everything there is a fact, who knows we might not have been given the full narration of the story as to why she was jailed, but if everything up there is 100% true and complete, then its wrong.

lexiconkabir:


Ok, if they refer to only the wives of the prophet, then other muslimaat shoudnt pray, pay zakat, they should disobey Allah and his messenger?

quickly:


My brother u r already low so u can't lower urself any more. Until u have reformatted u r brain from Islam programming u will choose to live in denial.

First u say picture was photo shopped then I show u video and next u say some or what not.

can u not make up u r mind from the evidence in front of u

That video shows thousands of refugees in Hungary looking to cross into Germany and by the time they reach Germany when they start to discriminate against them they will say they want Islamic law or watever.

when they tell them that ppl in this land don't cover or wear bedshhet-
when they say ppl in did land don't wear hi jab or burka
That time they will start to cry and it eventually leads to extremism just like France and Belgium

So if u want Islamic law so badly head to middle east where Islam originates from.

And don't talk about bigotry because is number 2 practicer of bigotry. Even this forum u must be a Muslim to comment.

Why r u afraid of the truth so much

Anyway thanks to Internet no more hiding place

Lagusta:


Brother na wa for u ooo....

Who is talking about other muslimah now

Do u want me to start quoting verses again

Baseless arguments like this would lead us nowhere.....

Please let's finish our Ramadan in peace abeg, I can't always be spoon feeding u anyhow .....

Dhelake:
I am a muslim but I don't think I can live in any of the Islamic countries. It will be bad for anyone's sanity.

lexiconkabir:


See, i am not in for baseless arguments either, but whenever you say something that aint right, i am obliged to make amends of it, ignorant people will take it for facts, that verse wasn't for the prophet's wives alone......and this is how the sahabas understood the verse, so we cant take your own misguided understanding over what the sahabas took as the understanding of the verse, khalas!

Lagusta:


Now do me a favour and read tafsir ibn katheer concerning that verse, then go ahead and read the whole sura, you will see another verse that now concerns all the Muslim women.....

FAQAT!!!!!!

Millerz:
Per the bolded, are you dumb? Why is that common sense eludes Muslims in arguments? Can you not converse intellectually without dragging Christianity into this mess? when and where was it stated that Mary got married at ages 8-12??

Typical Al Yaquiya lying Muslim.

lexiconkabir:


http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1860&Itemid=89

[size=18pt]Enjoining certain Manners so that the Mothers of the Believers may be an Example[/size]

I hope you saw the above in the link i posted?

Start reading from "wa qarna fi buyutikunna"

BTW you seem to enjoy the feeling of "i think i have won the argument" cuz i wonder what's funny.

PassingShot:

You tried but I am surprised that a Muslim like you could look at an issue from one angle.

I have been living in Qatar for over ten years and I can say it loudly and boldly that I will not exchange my privilege to live here for a right to live in USA or any other Western country. I spent about two years in UK before relocating to Qatar and I can confirm to you that all you've said to be wrong in the Arab countries you mentioned, are worse in the Western countries and any other places.


Seun, to answer your question, as a Muslim living in an Arab country, I prefer living here to the best of the Western World for the following reasons:

1. Less of social vices and immorality. You will need to make extra efforts to engage in many of the societal ills of today if you live in Saudi, Qatar, Bahrain, etc. Reverse is the case in most of the rest of countries of the world. In fact, the vices are looking for you there.

2. Less discrimination compared to the West. An average Arab man respects and admires you for even being able to speak English.

3. Access to free health care provided you're a legal resident. Since coming here in 2006, I have always paid about 10% of health care cost for self and family members as a result to heavily subsidized health care system. In the West, this cost alone could make you go bankrupt without good insurance.

4. Far better security system. No fear of someone gunning you down for frivolities as common in USA, UK and many other western countries. No fear of armed robbers or burglars. You can sleep with your both eyes well closed.

5. Government regulation on some basic items for affordability of the poor.

6. Tax-free income. Imagine paying no dime for tax despite earning decent wage!

7. Availability of almost all amenities you can think of at a fraction of what you'll pay to have them in the so-called western world.

8. Less peer negative influence on your children as most students behave well here compared to their mates in the west who have been exposed to porn, addicted to smoking and alcohol at young age, have boyfriend/girlfriend even before they attain teenage years, etc.

The reasons are endless but the above will do for now.

In fact, there are some Christian families I know here who prefer to raise their children here rather than seek visa to USA/Canada/UK despite having the means to do so.

For you to find out more, I advise you do a similar survey for non-Muslims residing in Muslim World for their opinion on this matter.

Five years of human rights failure shames FIFA and Qatar

1 December 2015, 00:01 UTC

Labour exploitation remains rampant in Qatar as the authorities fail to deliver significant reforms, Amnesty International said today before the fifth anniversary of Qatar winning the right to host the 2022 FIFA World Cup.

Despite massive public exposure of the appalling conditions faced by most migrant construction workers, the Qatari authorities have done almost nothing effective to end chronic labour exploitation.

“Too little has been done to address rampant migrant labour abuse. Qatar’s persistent labour reform delays are a recipe for human rights disaster,” said Mustafa Qadri, Gulf Migrant Rights Researcher at Amnesty International.

“The reforms proposed by the government fail to tackle the central issues that leave so many workers at the mercy of employers, yet even these changes have been delayed.

“Unless action is taken – and soon – then every football fan who visits Qatar in 2022 should ask themselves how they can be sure they are not benefiting from the blood, sweat and tears of migrant workers.

“FIFA has played its part in this sorry performance. It knew there were labour rights issues in Qatar. It must work closely with the Qatari authorities and business partners to ensure the World Cup is not built on exploitation.”
Five years on, Qatar yet to deliver major labour reforms

Amnesty International has carried out five research missions to Qatar in the past four years to investigate the condition of the migrant worker population, expected to reach two million within the next two years. A May 2015 report identified nine fundamental migrant labour rights issues. Qatar has seriously failed to address five of them, including:

Paying wages on time: A wage protection system that requires businesses to pay workers on time by direct bank deposits was signed into law in February 2015 but only came into force in November. Late payment of wages is a widespread problem that leaves migrant workers and their families back home in desperate situations.
Commitment to expanding the labour inspector force to 400 by the end of 2015: postponed until the end of 2016.
Reform of the restrictive kafala sponsorship system central to the problems faced by migrant workers: limited changes promised in May 2014, only introduced in October 2015, and won’t enter into force until the end of 2016. The new system will still require workers to seek their employer’s consent to change jobs or leave the country.

Construction worker Ramesh, whose name has been changed, told Amnesty International how the system makes it harder for workers to stand up for their rights:

“I went to my manager’s office and told him I want to go home because my pay is always late. The manager screamed at me, saying ‘keep working or you will never leave!’”

“Under the kafala system it is all too easy for an unscrupulous employer to get away with the late payment of salaries, housing workers in squalid and cramped housing, or threatening workers who complain about their conditions. That is why kafala requires a major overhaul, not just tinkering at the edges,” said Mustafa Qadri.

“Migrant workers continue to face impediments and delays in accessing the justice system, and are not allowed to form or join unions. Many thousands still struggle to obtain adequate health and other basic services, face delays in obtaining their resident permits, or live and work in intolerable conditions.”

Farmerforlife:


Just the kind of comment I expected you would make. Difficult to comprehend grammatically, lacking in substance. I have answered the op's questions. It is what I came here to do.

Go in peace.

oyb:


well, things may have changed. my point of reference is 1990 to 2000, and it was saudi arabia. Qatar is trying to become more toursit friendly especially in light of the FIFA world cup.

however

https://business-humanrights.org/en/major-sporting-events/labour-rights-and-the-qatar-world-cup-2022




remember what i quoted about wages?
furthermore, the true measure of a society is the conditions of the those on the lowest rungs of the financial ladder. i have no doubt you are a professional, attached to a multinational which would offer you some degree of protection/insulation.

i have been reading about these migrant workers on and off for three years.