This ball retention story is what we'll never hear the last of.
So it's ok to pay 30 mill for a ball retainer.Why didn't we get Olofinjana instead?
We woulda gotten 10 of him for that sum.
How many crucial goals does Berbatov score?
Can you count on him when the chips are down?Honestly could you?
So as it stands,only Rooney alone should shoulder the scoring threat,while Berbasoft dances Atilogwu in the final third?
And you expect us to win something at the end of the season.

Eastbay:

This ball retention story is what we'll never hear the last of.
So it's ok to pay 30 mill for a ball retainer.Why didn't we get Olofinjana instead?
We woulda gotten 10 of him for that sum.
How many crucial goals does Berbatov score?
Can you count on him when the chips are down?Honestly could you?
So as it stands,only Rooney alone should shoulder the scoring threat,while Berbasoft dances Atilogwu in the final third?
And you expect us to win something at the end of the season.

I wonder. . . ."Ball retention abilities has been the only weapon put up to defend a catastrophic signing and justification of a massive transfer fee. . . .
Some good questions put up here by Eastbay. . .

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1239157/Sir-Alex-Ferguson-demands-Manchester-United-pair-Dimitar-Berbatov-Michael-Owen.html
I hope those who say Fergie wants a certain thing from Berbatov in particular have a change of thought,because the key point is SCORING THREAT.

@ eastbay,

& what if we do win something at the end of the season

MrCrackles:

Pretending to be igorant, in Berba's case what are the factors and variables

could be anything ranging from formation to the kind of players he plays with - i can't put my finger on it, i can only speculate!

~Sauron~:

Cantona was never the driving force. Shut up you know nada about Man Utd.
Roy Keane, Mark Hughes, Steve Bruce were the driving force.

This is a matter of semantics - Cantona personified Utd at a time yes or no? Berba will never be such a player.

He doesn't have to be Rooney.
Berbatov holds the ball and plays an intelligent pass to anyone in the box to score.
The kind of quality he gives, he does not get em from his team-mates. That is the difference.

Yet Utd have scored 30 goals this season with no input from Berbatov - he's bought to create chances and has created just TWO and half the season is gone? What an abysmal failure.

For a selfish Portugese player who attempts 200 shots per season, it is very normal for him to score like hell.
If you factor his freekicks, penalties, etc. He should be scoring more.
Adebayor's conversion rate was miles better than Ronaldo's in the season CR7 scored 42 goals.

Regardless of the number of efforts, the goals counted yes or no? Is someone stopping Berba from shooting? What a ridiculous excuse.

Having the ability to pass like Cantona is his primary role. The goals is the bonus.
Fergie has given Rooney the role of stepping into Ronaldo's shoes. He did not give Berbatov that responsibility.

Don't be stupid - Rooney will NEVER score 30 goals in a season, never mind 42. . . .You cannot have only one striker with goal scoring responsibility and even Ronaldo's performances were out of character - you RARELY have a single winger producing that weight of goals.

Fergie's intent was to spread out that goal threat among his STRIKERS - and that includes Berba, and not sole dependency on a single Portuguese player who was bound to leave.

RuuDie:

@ eastbay,

& what if we do win something at the end of the season

This is a very irrational line of reasoning - so Chelski won something in the year DD blew his top in the UCL. . . . would anyone in his right mind say DD's behaviour was ok simply because Chelski won something?

Did Chelski not win something with Sheva on the books? Did that stop him from being an unmitigated disaster at the club?

Even in the season Utd won the league, was Tevez not released cos Fergie felt he wasn't as effective as he wanted?

Eastbay:

This ball retention story is what we'll never hear the last of.
So it's ok to pay 30 mill for a ball retainer.Why didn't we get Olofinjana instead?
We woulda gotten 10 of him for that sum.
How many crucial goals does Berbatov score?
Can you count on him when the chips are down?Honestly could you?
So as it stands,only Rooney alone should shoulder the scoring threat,while Berbasoft dances Atilogwu in the final third?
And you expect us to win something at the end of the season.

you yarn as if Berba doesn't score - i keep saying what does it matter if he doesn't & UTD still keep winning the titles

maybe thats why UTD have won the last 3 and are on course to make it 4. . . . y'all spend so much time mounting needless pressure on your own players for nothing!

In this age of clipboards and computers, number-crunching and ProZone, there seems to be a growing view that football and footballers can be reduced to a set of statistics, like anonymous data in some gigantic calculation.

For those who insist on seeing the world in such terms, allow me to give you the stats on Dimitar Berbatov’s first season at Manchester United. He has scored 13 goals in all competitions; eight goals in 27 matches in the Barclays Premier League; he has had eight assists; has a shooting accuracy of close to 50 per cent; and a chance conversion rate of 20 per cent. Many argue that these numbers provide conclusive proof that the Bulgarian, for a player who cost the small matter of £30.75 million, has had a woeful season.

Now, I don’t know about you, but while I find these statistics interesting and, in their way, enlightening, I also think that they fail to convey the essential meaning of Berbatov’s contribution. They fail, for example, to convey the artistry of his volley through a packed penalty area against Middlesbrough in December; they fail to describe the elegance of his take and pull-back for Carlos Tévez to score against Liverpool in September.

Most important of all, they fail to convey the audacity of his lightning turn and intuitive flick past James Collins, the West Ham United defender, and his cut-back for Cristiano Ronaldo to score in October, arguably the most audacious, revelatory and intricate piece of creativity all season.

Sure, football is about results and instances of individual brilliance must be seen, to an extent, in that context. But even the most zealous statistician must also concede that results have to matter to people. We have to care. We have to want to travel across the nation to watch our teams in action. And it is players such as Berbatov — his individuality, his elegance and, yes, his neuroses — who make football matter to so many of us.

This is about more than sport; it is about life. Sir Alex Ferguson, for all his ruthlessness and single-mindedness, has always acknowledged the aesthetic dimension; he has always recognised that football is about more than the scoreline at the end of 90 minutes or the points tally at the end of the season.

Neutrals often proclaim their dislike of United, but we have never suppressed a feeling of gratitude that Ferguson has stayed true to the poetic ideals of the Busby era. For Best read Cantona; for Charlton read Scholes; for the tragic Edwards read Ronaldo; for Law read Rooney. Not necessarily similar players, but men with marvellous skills whose contribution to English football is measured not just in medals, and certainly not in statistics, but in hearts and minds.

There is an entire body of academic work seeking to explain the ascent of English football over recent years: the dominance of English teams in the Champions League, the legions of fans around the globe, the predilection of the world’s richest men to purchase our clubs, the sense of glamour and excitement.

Many cite the business model of the Premier League and the canny stewardship of Richard Scudamore, its chief executive, for all this, and in so doing they grasp an aspect of the truth. But the fundamental reason for the success of English football is to be found in its peerless spectacle. It is to be found in the willingness of some of our greatest and most visionary managers — Ferguson and Arsène Wenger, of Arsenal, in particular — to embrace something beyond the functional and the utilitarian; to hire and encourage players who have the rare spark of genius capable of elevating Saturday afternoons beyond the merry-go-round of home and away, victory and defeat.

We would do well to remember that no fan’s love of football has been consummated by statistics and that no spectator has left a game with his mind in hock to a player’s percentage of completed passes.
All of us, even those in anoraks, seek poetry and passion, magic and moments of creativity; all things that make life and sport matter and that are never to be found in ProZone’s matrix of numbers.

And that is why Ferguson will persist with Berbatov. An old and wily fox, he will ponder the sometimes damning statistics and will even experience pangs of anxiety when reflecting upon his forward’s infuriating unwillingness to track back and tendency to spend huge chunks of time swathed in anonymity.

But then the old boy will remember those life-affirming detonations of genius and his granite heart will soften, and he will reach for the teamsheet to scrawl the Bulgarian’s name at the top of the page once again.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/matthew_syed/article6143793.ece

maybe, just maybe for this reason only SAF is keeping Berba - as long as he hasn't said zilch, then our 30milla is very well spent!

debosky:

This is a very irrational line of reasoning - so Chelski won something in the year DD blew his top in the UCL. . . . would anyone in his right mind say DD's behaviour was ok simply because Chelski won something?

Did Chelski not win something with Sheva on the books? Did that stop him from being an unmitigated disaster at the club?

Even in the season Utd won the league, was Tevez not released cos Fergie felt he wasn't as effective as he wanted?

in the same vein, it is equally very irrational for anybody to raise doubts over UTD's title claim becuz of one player not firing on all cylinders!

RuuDie:

in the same vein, it is equally very irrational for anybody to raise doubts over UTD's title claim becuz of one player not firing on all cylinders!

Who made such a claim? Did I say Utd will lose the title because of Berbatov? I don't understand the need to so passionately and often irrationally defend something. Granted you can defend your club and it's enviable achievements, but you should also be able to rationally look at a particular issue on it's own merit.

If you simply came out and said it's irrelevant how well/badly Berba does as long as the title is won, then we would have restricted the responses to Sharon who claims the sulk is doing well.

As regards, your post quoted from The Times even that implies that there must be a level of frustration within Fergie when he watches some of Berba's lethargic performances.

debosky:

This is a matter of semantics - Cantona personified Utd at a time yes or no? Berba will never be such a player.

He never did.

Yet Utd have scored 30 goals this season with no input from Berbatov - he's bought to create chances and has created just TWO and half the season is gone? What an abysmal failure.

How is it failure? What about assist of the goal assists.
Like i have told y'all. . . . .Stats alone does not show Berbatov's contribution.
There are tangibles and the intangibles. . . . .

Regardless of the number of efforts, the goals counted yes or no? Is someone stopping Berba from shooting? What a ridiculous excuse.

He is selfless. . . . .He is not governed by the number of goals he scores. . . . .He's governed by the number of goals he initiates.

Don't be silly - Rooney will NEVER score 30 goals in a season, never mind 42. . . .You cannot have only one striker with goal scoring responsibility and even Ronaldo's performances were out of character - you RARELY have a single winger producing that weight of goals.

He has eclipsed the total number of league goals he scored throughout last season.
If United go all the way in all competitions and Rooney does not cop any injury, he can score 42.

[b]Fergie's intent [/b]was to spread out that goal threat among his STRIKERS - and that includes Berba, and not sole dependency on a single Portuguese player who was bound to leave.

U slept with Fergie to know his intentions?
Where did he say i want to spread out the goal threat among my strikers. . . .
When you make idiotic opinions, abeg. . . .back it up with links.

I have provided links to every single schitzo i have made here. . . . .Tow that line.

More woes for United.
Mrs. Van der Sar suffers brain damage.

Surely, expect below par performances henceforth from the goalie.
My condolences.

BlueDiva:

More woes for United.
Mrs. Van der Sar suffers brain damage.

Surely, expect below par performances henceforth from the goalie.
My condolences.

Obviously, you have been staying out of this planet.

Remind me. . . . .When was the last time VDS stood between the posts for Man Utd?
Unlike Chelski, there's strength in depth so we won't miss VDS.

If i were you, i would worry over the absence of Drogba, Essien, Mikel and Kalou.

~Sauron~:

Obviously, you have been staying out of this planet.

Remind me. . . . .When was the last time VDS stood between the posts for Man Utd?
Unlike Chelski, there's strength in depth so we won't miss VDS.

If i were you, i would worry over the absence of Drogba, Essien, Mikel and Kalou.

True, i worry about DD and co leaving.

Admit it, you guys miss VDS.
Just when he should have been returning, misfortune strikes. Kpele.

I will play the role of devil's advocate here , Fergie's primary tactic has always been to pass the ball around and never lose possession cheaply to the opposition,

Berbatov seems like the appropriate player to fulfill that goal hence [b]part [/b]of the reason why fergie bought him, and so far he has been able to accomplish

that purpose however his goal return has been shambolic for a £30 million pounds striker, first and foremost, he is a striker and the job discription of a £30 million

striker is to score goals consistently and be relied upon when the going gets tough.

~Sauron~:

How is it failure? What about assist of the goal assists.
Like i have told y'all. . . . .Stats alone does not show Berbatov's contribution.
There are tangibles and the intangibles. . . . .  

How many asists of goal assists did he make?  

U slept with Fergie to know his intentions?
Where did he say i want to spread out the goal threat among my strikers. . . .
When you make idiotic opinions, abeg. . . .back it up with links.

I have provided links to every single schitzo i have made here. . . . .Tow that line.

http://www.football.co.uk/manchester_united/sir_alex_demands_more_from_united_strike_pair_berbatov_and_owen_rss294361.shtml

Rooney scored one goal and created two in the 3-1 win over Hull, taking his season's tally to 14 in all competitions, with Berbatov benefiting to get on the scoresheet himself.
But it was only the Bulgarian's fifth of the season while Owen has managed seven.
Ferguson said: 'Wayne can step forward and be the main man but there are a few who have to step forward in that respect. We are coming to the time now. The challenge is there.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/manchester_united/s/1129220_fergie_to_change_reds_tactics

Fergie expects 60 goals from his strikers - pray tell - does he expect Rooney and Owen to score 25 each and only 10 from Berba when he is higher on the pecking order than Owen?  

Sir Alex Ferguson expects Dimitar Berbatov and Michael Owen to answer the critics and re-discover their goal scoring form as Manchester United battle to overcome an indifferent start to the new campaign.

United fell to a surprise midweek defeat at Burnley, meaning that the opening two matches, against promoted Birmingham and Burnley, had seen them score just one goal.

Observers have naturally noted that Cristiano Ronaldo, and his prodigious goal scoring talents, have not been directly replaced by Ferguson this summer and that Owen, whose own career was hardly at its peak following an injury-plagued spell with relegated Newcastle, was the only significant addition to the attacking corps.

Bulgarian Berbatov also has much to prove after scoring just nine times in 33 Premier League games last season following his 30.75 million pound transfer from Tottenham.

But Ferguson has confirmed that he will not be adding to his current squad in the ten days that remain in the transfer window and that he has faith in Owen and Berbatov finally discovering the kind of form to match their reputations.

“Dimitar would like to score a goal, strikers are like that,” said Ferguson.

“He is no different from Michael Owen or Wayne Rooney. Strikers always feel as if scoring is the most important thing.

“Michael is exactly the same as Dimitar, he could do with a goal. He had two (chances) on Wednesday and should have scored both of them. He knows that. He was unlucky and he will be wanting that goal.

“There’s no question about it that his movement and positional play in the last third is very, very good. We are just waiting on that goal that will set him off. I am sure about that.”

http://www.soccernews.com/fergie-anticipating-berbatov-and-owen-goal-spree/22585/

If Fergie believes Fergie has been sub par so far, why does Sharon think he knows better?

debosky:

How many asists of goal assists did he make?  

Trailer loads. . . .

Talk about finding the needle in a hay-stack.
From this link i was able to bring this out. . . . Ferguson is now opting to use Wayne Rooney as a central striker, rather than playing him out wide, alongside either Michael Owen or Dimitar Berbatov.

In this debate. . . . .I have been able to prove Berbatov is NOT lazy and he is NOT United's centre forward.
The myth about Berbatov being a lazy player and he is the poacher has been blown to bits.
Trust me. . . . The next time you open your mouth with your paraga-influenced opinion, i will shove a cue in it.

If Fergie believes Fergie has been sub par so far, why does Sharon think he knows better?

He did not say Berbatov has been sub par so far.
Ferguson expects everyone to ship in their own share of goals.

"Those goals from midfield have dried up a little in recent years, so we have to address that.

"I will be looking to (Ji-Sung) Park, Nani, (Luis Antonio) Valencia - even (Danny) Welbeck and (Federico) Macheda - to contribute 40 goals between them. The defenders will contribute a few from set-pieces too."

Since Valencia, Park and Nani haven't scored half of the goals Fergie expects them to contribute. . . .Does it also mean they have been sub-par?
Did Ferguson factor Berbatov's knee operation before saying he expects his strikers to score 60 goals?
Debosky, you are a pile of [i]w[/i]ank.

Maybe a long term injury to Rooney is what it would take to convince y'all that Berbaslug is shyte. Maybe na im passes and fanciful flicks una go chop when what y'all really need from him are goals!! Has he even scored in 3 or 4 straight games since joining Utd?

Eastbay:

This ball retention story is what we'll never hear the last of.

It is the best weapon to hurt your opponent.
Barcelona deployed it against us in Rome and we chased the ball for 70 mins. . . .

So it's ok to pay 30 mill for a ball retainer.Why didn't we get Olofinjana instead?
We woulda gotten 10 of him for that sum.

Man Utd is worth $1.8 billion. . . . .We can afford to splash £30 million on Berba.
United are not non-profitable organisations like Arsenal and Chelsea. £30 milla is a drop in the ocean as far as our operating profit is concerned.
Don't join the poor to lament over £30 milla.

How many crucial goals does Berbatov score?
Can you count on him when the chips are down?Honestly could you?

His goal helped us put Tottenham away in last season's FA Cup tie at OT.
What about his massive contribution against Tottenham in the league, Fulham, Newcastle(away) and Sunderland.
Can i count on Berba when the chips are down? A resounding YES!!!

I can count on him to deliver an intelligent ball to a team-mate to score like he did against CSKA in Moscow.
His flick gave Valencia all the time to shoot into the net.
There are some assists that make the goal scoring too easy for the scorer. Berbatov provides that week in week out.

So as it stands,only Rooney alone should shoulder the scoring threat,while Berbasoft dances Atilogwu in the final third?
And you expect us to win something at the end of the season.

Ruud shouldered our scoring threat back in the days. . . . .Did we not win the league with Ruud?
If the chances provided to Rooney are easy. . . .He will be very happy and snappy to shoulder the scoring threat.
That will also boost Rooney's CV cos he has remained under Ronaldo's shadow for too long.

Lemme ask you this question. . . . .United's third goal against Hull ----Whose task was more difficult?
Rooney's assist or Berbatov's task of putting it into the net?
If Rooney gets that kind of service every game, will he complain about shouldering the scoring threat ALONE?

~Sauron~:

It is the best weapon to hurt your opponent.
Barcelona deployed it against us in Rome and we chased the ball for 70 mins. . . .

Hey man, Barcelona will ALWAYS retain the ball.Did so during Cruyff's time and that philosophy is ingrained in that club.
They dominated possession over two legs in the CL semi final 07/08,but could not score.SO i'm not convinced about that argument.

~Sauron~:


Man Utd is worth $1.8 billion. . . . .We can afford to splash £30 million on Berba.
United are not non-profitable organisations like Arsenal and Chelsea. £30 milla is a drop in the ocean as far as our operating profit is concerned.
Don't join the poor to lament over £30 milla.

Yeah,that's probably why Fergie is wary of spending on another dud.
Listen 30 million is a lot of quid,be it in pesos,CFAs,or cowrie shells,no matter how rich you are.

~Sauron~:



His goal helped us put Tottenham away in last season's FA Cup tie at OT.
What about his massive contribution against Tottenham in the league, Fulham, Newcastle(away) and Sunderland.
Can i count on Berba when the chips are down? A resounding YES!!!

I can count on him to deliver an intelligent ball to a team-mate to score like he did against CSKA in Moscow.
His flick gave Valencia all the time to shoot into the net.
There are some assists that make the goal scoring too easy for the scorer. Berbatov provides that week in week out.

My man,the big test will be when Rooney cops an injury and he is forced to lead the line.
As for those games you mentioned,it's just a handful that you can remember.

~Sauron~:



Ruud shouldered our scoring threat back in the days. . . . .Did we not win the league with Ruud?
If the chances provided to Rooney are easy. . . .He will be very happy and snappy to shoulder the scoring threat.
That will also boost Rooney's CV cos he has remained under Ronaldo's shadow for too long.

Lemme ask you this question. . . . .United's third goal against Hull ----Whose task was more difficult?
Rooney's assist or Berbatov's task of putting it into the net?
If Rooney gets that kind of service every game, will he complain about shouldering the scoring threat ALONE?

How successful were we overall in the league with ruud leading the line?
One title in five seasons?Give me a break.
Rooney isn't as accomplished as Ruud in the scoring department yet.Are we going to even hope for that kind of success with Rooney?
As for your question,the hard work was done by rooney.Even a bat in a cave in daylight would see it.
My problem with your Analogy is that Rooney is supposed to be leading the line,as you postulated with the "false 9 theory".

RuuDie:

@ eastbay,

& what if we do win something at the end of the season

IWinning's in our culture.
Winning is what makes us who we are:what separates us from Arsenal and dem.

Berba is worth every penny of the £30 milla we paid for him.
United did not buy him to score goals. . . . .They bought him to win us titles which he has done already.

Until Tevez's wacky and jammy goals result into titles. . . . .He is not worth £1 milla.

Berbetov is one of the most overrated players in Europe. Another David Healy replica

dayokanu:

Berbetov is one of the most overrated players in Europe. Another David Healy replica

hold ur horses now, we'll still come back to the issue of Luca Toni & Mario Gomes. . . . .

debosky:

Who made such a claim? Did I say Utd will lose the title because of Berbatov? I don't understand the need to so passionately and often irrationally defend something. Granted you can defend your club and it's enviable achievements, but you should also be able to rationally look at a particular issue on it's own merit.

If you simply came out and said it's irrelevant how well/badly Berba does as long as the title is won, then we would have restricted the responses to Sharon who claims the sulk is doing well.

As regards, your post quoted from The Times even that implies that there must be a level of frustration within Fergie when he watches some of Berba's lethargic performances.

Track-back and read thru. . . i never said you made that statement, someone else did and i was responding to that person.

to debosky, eastbay, a-40, mrcrackles, dayokanu & all the other detractors / even sauron, jalether & other interested party.

lets even break this argument down further - we've been constantly yapping expectations, expectations. . . .
what are your expectations of a striker who comes with a considerable amount of money on the price tag attached to him

RuuDie:

to debosky, eastbay, a-40, mrcrackles, dayokanu & all the other detractors / even sauron, jalether & other interested party.

lets even break this argument down further - we've been constantly yapping expectations, expectations. . . .
what are your expectations of a striker who comes with a considerable amount of money on the price tag attached to him

GOALS.
Plenty of GOALS.Especially someone with a track record for club and country.

Eastbay:

GOALS.
Plenty of GOALS.Especially someone with a track record for club and country.

Good. . . . same as me, many a UTD fan and probably even Berba himself.

Okay, the man has come but the anticipated goal flood didn't come with him. . . yes, we are disappointed becuz we'd have very much loved that; but on the other hand, the man gives something else, a goal every now and then, and other bright spots we can tap into and utilize. . . so how does that amount to a waste from MUFC's perspective!?

As long as our Berbatov refuses to score in the ton,then any other thing is just like dereliction of duty,i.e. abandoning what you're paid primarily to do.
Let Fergie convert him to a midfielder instead,and send him on loan to Holland,where skills abound,so that we don't get reminded of the 30 million fee we paid on his mop-head on a weekly basis.

Eastbay:

As long as our Berbatov refuses to score in the ton,then any other thing is just like dereliction of duty,i.e. abandoning what you're paid primarily to do.
Let Fergie convert him to a midfielder instead,and send him on loan to Holland,where skills abound,so that we don't get reminded of the 30 million fee we paid on his mop-head on a weekly basis.

oh well. . . . close your eyes and cover your eyes whenever you're watching a UTD game cuz you ain't seen the last of him. . . . . . . you can start from tonight!

RuuDie:

to debosky, eastbay, a-40, mrcrackles, dayokanu & all the other detractors / even sauron, jalether & other interested party.
lets even break this argument down further - we've been constantly yapping expectations, expectations. . . .
what are your expectations of a striker who comes with a considerable amount of money on the price tag attached to him

Detractors?
He's gotta start a lot more games. . . . .Giving Alex Ferguson headaches regarding attacking selection unless he desperately needs a rest
He's gotta hit the back of the net consistently. . . .Double figures a season is not a big ask
He has gotta play more team football - Ball retention & bringing other's into play has been ya'all's weapon but then has he even been spotless @dis?
He needs to stop sulking and tone down the tins of gel he slaps on his hair. . . .

MrCrackles:

Detractors?
He's gotta start a lot more games. . . . .Giving Alex Ferguson headaches regarding attacking selection unless he desperately needs a rest
He's gotta hit the back of the net consistently. . . .Double figures a season is not a big ask
He has gotta play more team football - Ball retention & bringing other's into play has been ya'all's weapon but then has he even been spotless @dis?
He needs to stop sulking and tone down the tins of gel he slaps on his hair. . . .

We don't agree on a lot,but for once i hold up my hand to concur with you on dat one

RuuDie:

oh well. . . . close your eyes and cover your eyes whenever you're watching a UTD game cuz you ain't seen the last of him. . . . . . . you can start from tonight!

The less I see of him the better for me and every other united fan,what a waste of space!!!

Eastbay:

The less I see of him the better for me and every other united fan,what a waste of space!!!

Waste of space and resources. I even prefer Wellbeck. Kiko or Owen to that puff.