ocelot2006:

No, why don't you prove that Yaradua is about to contract out security operations in the Niger-Delta to a foreign entity? And i don't mean some stupid link like hulu.com. If you've been following the thrends back home withe the armed forces and law enforcement agencies, then you would have known that its been the total opposite. The military (particularly the Navy) has been acquiring more platforms and gears to provide better protection within the region. And military personnels are undergoing more training to handle the situation within the region.

Apart from your dislike or distrust for the news-source, you don't have any other evidence to show that the information, the letter to the president's political advicer, and the push for the safe habor contracts are false. Nigeria's other preparation(new materials, new training, and new personel) for the Niger delta is not mutually exclusive to this contract. Can't you see it?

believe whatever you like.

I think Nigeria as a country should be ashamed of it self, if the Federal Government can not contain a national Issue such as the Niger Delta Millitancy tactically without any cause for alarm.
If they go ahead on importing the so called Ex- Marines from the us, it means there are indirectly calling for Civil War.
Infact going by this news im begining to believe that this country will be splited by 2015 as predicted.

SapeleGuy:


"Mayday Mayday Blackhawk Down"
Another inglorious defeat for the marines.

1. There were no Marines fighting in the 'Black Hawk Down' battle.
2. That was nowhere near a defeat for the US forces in Somalia.

texazzpete:

1. There were no Marines fighting in the 'Black Hawk Down' battle.
2. That was nowhere near a defeat for the US forces in Somalia.

Yes, the USMC never took part in the "Black Hawk down" incident, as the units involved were the 75th Ranger battalion, SFOD (Delta force), about 2 navy seal operators, and USAF parajumpers (PJs). However, regardless of the kill ratio, that operation was a disaster. Reason? Well, the primary objective of the US was to capture Aidid with the hope that his capture was going to end the fighting in Mogadishu as he was the most powerfull warlord then. That never happened as Aidid never showed up for the meeting at the hotel. Then those captured were exchanged for W.O Durant (the pilot of the 2nd black hawk helicopter shot down). Overall:

[list]
[li]The US military was given a bloody nose as its elite units lost quite a number of men.
A total of three blackhawk helicopters (yes, three) were brought down.
The fighting in Mogadishu and Somalia as a whole never ended.[/li]
[li][/li]
[/list]

Till this day, Mogadishu will always be etched in the minds of policy makers and planners in the Pentagon.

stine b:

I think Nigeria as a country should be ashamed of it self, if the Federal Government can not contain a national Issue such as the Niger Delta Millitancy tactically without any cause for alarm.
If they go ahead on importing the so called Ex- Marines from the us, it means there are indirectly calling for Civil War.
Infact going by this news im begining to believe that this country will be splited by 2015 as predicted.

Again, there is ABSOLUTELY NO INTENTION to bring in PMCs/mercenaries to do our fight for us.

don't waste your time explaining. let them continue imagining the worst. ha! american marines! only in the figment of thier imaginations!

texazzpete - the marines wouldn't come to the niger delta because it would be an unwinnable war.

Marine, Rangers, Special Forces or Withdrawal, Retreat, Tactical Defeat. The distinctions being made are irrelevant defeat by every other name is still defeat. They didn't achieve their objective against a weaker enemy which equates to 'disastrous defeat.

SapeleGuy:

texazzpete - the marines wouldn't come to the niger delta because it would be an unwinnable war.

Marine, Rangers, Special Forces or Withdrawal, Retreat, Tactical Defeat. The distinctions being made are irrelevant defeat by every other name is still defeat. They didn't achieve their objective against a weaker enemy which equates to 'disastrous defeat.

oh they'll come - why wouldnt they come, what have they got to lose?  they need the oil and they've been looking for an excuse to destabilise nigeria by announcing that the country is due to split up in 2015 ,just the way they destabilised Sudan in order to gain a foothold so i dont think we should be too quick in dismissing this arrangement that they may or may not have made with Yar adua.

cap28:

oh they'll come - why wouldnt they come, what have they got to lose?  they need the oil and they've been looking for an excuse to destabilise nigeria by announcing that the country is due to split up in 2015 ,just the way they destabilised Sudan in order to gain a foothold so i dont think we should be too quick in dismissing this arrangement that they may or may not have made with Yar adua.

They don't need to come to achieve those things, it is far more efficient for them to do things by proxy.

SapeleGuy:

They don't need to come to achieve those things, it is far more efficient for them to do things by proxy.

so how do you explain africom?

also this is an american insider's analysis:

http://www.nigerdeltarising.org/article/2009/09/14/us-military-involvement-nigeria

ocelot2006:

Yes, the USMC never took part in the "Black Hawk down" incident, as the units involved were the 75th Ranger battalion, SFOD (Delta force), about 2 navy seal operators, and USAF parajumpers (PJs). However, regardless of the kill ratio, that operation was a disaster. Reason? Well, the primary objective of the US was to capture Aidid with the hope that his capture was going to end the fighting in Mogadishu as he was the most powerfull warlord then. That never happened as Aidid never showed up for the meeting at the hotel. Then those captured were exchanged for W.O Durant (the pilot of the 2nd black hawk helicopter shot down). Overall:

WRONG.
The primary reason for that operation was not to capture Aidid, but to capture two of his top lieutenants. The US task force succeeded in that mission, capturing the men at the meeting within 30 minutes of the operation.
The operation only went awry when the first black hawk crashed.
80% of the casualties suffered by the US was in the attempt to reach and secure the first crash site.

Durant was released to the Americans unconditionally mere weeks after the fighting. There was NO prisoner exchange - the US rep made it abundantly clear to Aidid that non-release of the captive would ensure a far more vigorous US millitary response. Aidid got the message and released the captive forthwith.

Aidid's lieutenants were released months later in a general prisoner release by the Americans.

ocelot2006:


[list]
[li]The US military was given a bloody nose as its elite units lost quite a number of men.
A total of three blackhawk helicopters (yes, three) were brought down.
The fighting in Mogadishu and Somalia as a whole never ended.[/li]
[li][/li]
[/list]

Till this day, Mogadishu will always be etched in the minds of policy makers and planners in the Pentagon.

18 US servicemen were killed that day, compared to well over a thousand Somalian militiamen killed. The only real disaster for the US then was the harrowing images of dead bodies being dragged along the ground. The decision to pull out of Somalia was a political one by the Clinton administration.
While the whole fiasco is a valuable lesson to the US millitary of how logistics issues could easily turn a supposedly easy mission to a nightmare, to this day, the Black Hawk Down campaign serves as an example in the US millitary of the excellence of their elite special forces (especially the Delta Force and SEALs and to a lesser extent the Rangers)

These guys dropped into the deadliest district in Somalia, surrounded by tens of thousands of armed militamen armed with RPGs and Ak-47s. That they came out of it the way they did is nothing short of amazing.

SapeleGuy:

They didn't achieve their objective against a weaker enemy which equates to 'disastrous defeat.

REad my post above. They DID achieve their objective.

Recommended reading: Black Hawk Down by Mark Bowden.

Here's the Medal Of Honor citation for Randy Shughart, one of the two Delta Force operators killed at the second crash site

Citation:
Sergeant First Class Shughart, United States Army, distinguished himself by actions above and beyond the call of duty on 3 October 1993, while serving as a Sniper Team Member, United States Army Special Operations Command with Task Force Ranger in Mogadishu, Somalia. Sergeant First Class Shughart provided precision sniper fires from the lead helicopter during an assault on a building and at two helicopter crash sites, while subjected to intense automatic weapons and rocket propelled grenade fires. While providing critical suppressive fires at the second crash site, Sergeant First Class Shughart and his team leader learned that ground forces were not immediately available to secure the site. Sergeant First Class Shughart and his team leader unhesitatingly volunteered to be inserted to protect the four critically wounded personnel, despite being well aware of the growing number of enemy personnel closing in on the site. After their third request to be inserted, Sergeant First Class Shughart and his team leader received permission to perform this volunteer mission. When debris and enemy ground fires at the site caused them to abort the first attempt, Sergeant First Class Shughart and his team leader were inserted one hundred meters south of the crash site. Equipped with only his sniper rifle and a pistol, Sergeant First Class Shughart and his team leader, while under intense small arms fire from the enemy, fought their way through a dense maze of shanties and shacks to reach the critically injured crew members. Sergeant First Class Shughart pulled the pilot and the other crew members from the aircraft, establishing a perimeter which placed him and his fellow sniper in the most vulnerable position. Sergeant First Class Shughart used his long range rifle and side arm to kill an undetermined number of attackers while traveling the perimeter, protecting the downed crew. Sergeant First Class Shughart continued his protective fire until he depleted his ammunition and was fatally wounded. His actions saved the pilot's life. Sergeant First Class Shughart's extraordinary heroism and devotion to duty were in keeping with the highest standards of military service and reflect great credit upon him, his unit and the United States Army.


How many Nigerian Soldiers or millitants do you think would knowingly volunteer for a mission like this when they were advised repeatedly that it meant almost certain death to be dropped in the middle of hundreds of approaching enemy millitants?
Only two Delta force troopers armed with no heavy weaponry killed at least 24 Somali millitants armed with AKs until their ammo ran out and were overrun. And this sort of heroism was repeated all over the battlefield.
Read more about the Somali conflict before making an erroneous conclusion.

The only true losers in this issue were the Somalis. They threw away their one chance of peace in 1993 - and they are still fighting till today.

This is all a moot point anyway. There's absolutely NO CHANCE that you'll see serving US Forces fighting in the Niger Delta. And Certainly not possible under the Obama administration.


Even if the Nigerian government hires Private millitary companies (which often contains ex-servicemen), these PMC are usually deployed defensively. Even in Iraq, not even Blackwater was used for offensive purposes.

I have no issue with PMCs being consulted for surveillance purposes. If we spend untold billions of Naira to payoff millitants for Amnesty purposes, why the hell would any patriotic Nigerian support continued sabotage and destruction of oil installations?

quote author=texazzpete link=topic=323715.msg4624020#msg4624020 date=1254122798]
This is all a moot point anyway. There's absolutely NO CHANCE that you'll see serving US Forces fighting in the Niger Delta. And Certainly not possible under the Obama administration.

i dont agree with this - the americans are showing a renewed interest in africa because their oil supplies from the middle east are set to decline in the next 5 years - nigeria and angola are now being looked at as replacement suppliers,  africom is being set up in order to ensure oil installations are adequately safeguarded which really means getting rid of dissident groups who try to interfere with oil production, in the case of nigeria its already kicked off with the americans supplying millions of dollars worh of arms and training to nigeria.   The americans would prefer not to deploy their own  soldiers to the niger delta region HOWEVER if it becomes necessary they will, this policy is an extension of the carter doctrine created under jimmy carter's administration in the 1980's - it states that  america will use military force if necessary in order to "protect their national interests" (nigeria's  oil).

why do you think things would be any different under obama - Obama has INCREASED funding for AFRICOM since he took over , he is a puppet and cannot deviate from Bush's agenda. 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14131

Even if the Nigerian government hires Private millitary companies (which often contains ex-servicemen), these PMC are usually deployed defensively. Even in Iraq, not even Blackwater was used for offensive purposes.

yes but they (blackwater) committed a lot of atrocities over in iraq, do we really want to see a repeat of these sort of incidents in nigeria?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe3DQ295P6E0

I have no issue with PMCs being consulted for surveillance purposes. If we spend untold billions of Naira to payoff millitants for Amnesty purposes, [b]why the hell would any patriotic Nigerian support continued sabotage and destruction of oil installations?

surveillance purposes - you must be having a laugh - mercenaries arent used for surveillance purposes, the nigerian military just bought unmanned drone intelligence planes from Israel and malaysia surely that should cover the surveillance element?

http://www.nigerdeltarising.org/article/2009/09/12/nigerian-government-preparing-imminent-military-offensive-delta

is it that you dont appreciate what MEND is doing? do you prefer the murderous Yaradua and his crew to continue in their plunder and pillage of nigeria?

why would any patriotic nigerian support a repressive murderous dictatorship who is spending millions of dollars on sophisticated weaponry which is to be used to KILL its own people who are simply asking for a more equitable distribution of the oil revenue.

if anything i think it will be completely unpatriotic to support such a perverse agenda, this is not going to end well for nigerians.

texazzpete:

WRONG.
The primary reason for that operation was not to capture Aidid, but to capture two of his top lieutenants. The US task force succeeded in that mission, capturing the men at the meeting within 30 minutes of the operation.
The operation only went awry when the first black hawk crashed.
80% of the casualties suffered by the US was in the attempt to reach and secure the first crash site.

Durant was released to the Americans unconditionally mere weeks after the fighting. There was NO prisoner exchange - the US rep made it abundantly clear to Aidid that non-release of the captive would ensure a far more vigorous US millitary response. Aidid got the message and released the captive forthwith.

Aidid's lieutenants were released months later in a general prisoner release by the Americans.


18 US servicemen were killed that day, compared to well over a thousand Somalian militiamen killed. The only real disaster for the US then was the harrowing images of dead bodies being dragged along the ground. The decision to pull out of Somalia was a political one by the Clinton administration.
While the whole fiasco is a valuable lesson to the US millitary of how logistics issues could easily turn a supposedly easy mission to a nightmare, to this day, the Black Hawk Down campaign serves as an example in the US millitary of the excellence of their elite special forces (especially the Delta Force and SEALs and to a lesser extent the Rangers)

These guys dropped into the deadliest district in Somalia, surrounded by tens of thousands of armed militamen armed with RPGs and Ak-47s. That they came out of it the way they did is nothing short of amazing.

I strongly suggest that you re-read about the operation during that fateful day. As a matter of fact, i recommend you read the work 1999 of Mark Bowden (Black Hawk Down); pretty good read. Don't just follow the movie. Bowden's work gives you a detailed and unbiased account of the operations before that fatefull day AND the main operation. Once again, the USMC NEVER took part in that operation to capture Aidid from the Olympus Hotel. While the operation also involved the capture of Aidid leutenants, its primary objective was to capture Aidid after the first operation which was undertaken by the USMC under the command of the UN to kill Aidid failed (AH-1 Cobra gunship attacks).

As for WO Micheal Durant, he was handed over to the Americans in exchange for ALL of Aidid's leautenants captured. And If I may add, that exhange also involved a Nigerian soldier who was also captured by Aidid's men and detained along with Durant.

There's no doubt that the units who partook in that operation performed remarkably given that the odds were stacked against them numerically. However, their saving grace was combat air support, particularly from the Special Operations Aviation Regiment (SOAR) of the US Army using AH-6 little-birds and UH-60 blackhawks, and the arrival of Malaysian/Pakistani armoured units (part of the UN contingent) that provided heavy fire support and were used to extract the soldiers from were they were trapped, and also the extraction of the dead bodies (except for the bodies of the two Delta force snipers that were still in the hands of the Somali mob). Trust me, without these two groups, the body count would have been far higher.

Overall, that mission was a total failure because:
[list]
[li]The US failed to capture Aidid.[/li]
[li][/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]All of Aidid's men were returned in exchange for Durant and the Nigerian soldier captured[/li]
[li][/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]It never stopped the fighting in Somalia.[/li]
[li][/li]
[/list]

texazzpete:




How many Nigerian Soldiers or millitants do you think would knowingly volunteer for a mission like this when they were advised repeatedly that it meant almost certain death to be dropped in the middle of hundreds of approaching enemy millitants?
Only two Delta force troopers armed with no heavy weaponry killed at least 24 Somali millitants armed with AKs until their ammo ran out and were overrun. And this sort of heroism was repeated all over the battlefield.
Read more about the Somali conflict before making an erroneous conclusion.

The only true losers in this issue were the Somalis. They threw away their one chance of peace in 1993 - and they are still fighting till today.

Uhm, Freetown (Sierre-Leone) comes to mind when about 100+ Nigerian Army soldiers held the hotel used to extract foreigners from Freetown against an enemy that was far more brutal, heavily armed, and numerically superior. And how about Darfur were 7 soldiers were killed when a Nigerian base was attacked by fighters who were numerically superior and had more heavier weapons. Oh, did I mention that the Nigerian soldiers held that base without any combat air support (CAS) and no reinforcement? Our boys have been in exactly the same situation. We just don't have hollywood movies that show their actions.

is that for real?