mrvitalis:

If u went to a polytechnic then u never studied mechanical engineering but mechanical engineering technology.... There is a different..

ConqueredWest:


Only in Africa especially Nigeria do you see Polytechnics being converted to Universities out of ignorance.

Universities are not superior to polytechnics


Polytechnics are to raise Technologists

Universities are to raise Engineers

What they teach should differ but unfortunately, Africans especially Nigerian polytechnics teach Engineering and award Engineering certificate instead of Technology


So to correct your wrong impression,

A Scientist, Engineer and Technologist are equal.

santafe:
@Conqueredwest, Lots of respect for your brilliant analysis. Spot on

@mrvitalis, you are missing something, Polythecnics in Nigeria are supposed to be fully into teaching technology and not trying to duplicate University's Curriculum.
The two should complement each other. This chestbeating about which is supperior does not address this very important imbalance.

Thats why we have mere technicians from Asia and Europe handling our important construction projects.

Our educational system needs a complete overhaul if there is to be any meaningful economic growth.

Our leaders unfortunately do not understand

illuminated93:
I asked you a question,you've still not answered. What is it you know as far as mechanical engineering is concerned that you feel I don't know. I repeat leave paper qualifications.

I anticipate your reply. The only thing you can boast of is paper qualification,technically you are not superior,and this accounts for the reason Nigeria is poor today. Our country choose to disenfranchise many people that deserve a shot.
Tell me one thing you do that we don't do,is it that we are alien to design calculations,engineering softwares,practicals(even if not many we still did few practicals),gns courses,engineering mathematics. Truth is, your assertions which tries to drag a poly student down defies logic. Even with the few courses the system denies us,we still treat the intoto of engineering .Its a shame those who handle educational matters do not understand d essence of a polytechnic. Since the poly is being handled like a university,its imperative to make it a degree awarding institution,no need for all these half measures that cheats people.
I don't think we are ready to have a polytechnic system in nigeria,we don't have the manpower to run it,except we hand them over to the chinese or asians

Cc conqueredwest

opey25:
why is it that the academic requirement for admission into Nigerian polytechnics is lower than that of universities? for example the UTME cut off mark for polytechnics is not as high as that of universities.

OrlandoOwoh:

The university colleges in Ibadan and Legos were established in 1948 in Nigeria and Ghana respectively. The colonialists didn't just establish them, they were demanded by the nationalists. Achebe was part of the first intake into the UCI. The university colleges were parts of the University of London, UK. Before you claim that they were not independent, my I tell you, before the University of Jos became independent, it's administered as part of UI, Ibadan.

I should be the person asking you to do your research. If you've done it you won't be asking why Azikiwe and Nkrumah didn't study in the UC, Ibadan. They studied in the 1920's and 30's in Europe and America. That is not to say that Fouray Bay College, Freetown was not a reputable higher institution in Sierra Leone that some Nigerians studied in. Always do your research. Could you tell me the name of the college Ojukwu established in Port Harcourt?

mrvitalis:

Bro if u go to the first page I copied an explanation from a school that offered the three level of engineering certification(b. Eng, HND, n ond)
As for what I know that u don't know??
It's funny bro, u deal with already existing technology I deal with creating new technologies... We are world apart

mrvitalis:

The polytechnic are not duplicating anything... The difference is clear
What the job of an engineer? Solve problems using the laws of science and applying complex mathematics...
Technologists is very knowledgeable yes, but to a particular area in the engineering feild (automobile, power plants, welding or electrical machine), if this solution created by the engineer is in his area, he Interpreted this solution to the technicians.. Who in turn carry out the instructions in the design to produce what u have...
In this world theory is seen as being far important to practicals and it is rightly so.....
Now I dare u to show me any industry in this world, were the engineer and Technologist is at the same level...
There is a leader in every team and in engineering the engineer is the leader followed by the Technologist then technician then craft man....
Am tired of this explanation... I showed u an aticle from a school in the USA that offered all the programme and they explained the difference and there positions... Don't know what to tell u again

ConqueredWest:


You only answered one question

Go back and answer all the questions

starting from

IS A UNIVERSITY THE SAME AS A UNIVERSITY COLLEGE

mrvitalis:

The polytechnic are not duplicating anything... The difference is clear
What the job of an engineer? Solve problems using the laws of science and applying complex mathematics...
Technologists is very knowledgeable yes, but to a particular area in the engineering feild (automobile, power plants, welding or electrical machine), if this solution created by the engineer is in his area, he Interpreted this solution to the technicians.. Who in turn carry out the instructions in the design to produce what u have...
In this world theory is seen as being far important to practicals and it is rightly so.....
Now I dare u to show me any industry in this world, were the engineer and Technologist is at the same level...
There is a leader in every team and in engineering the engineer is the leader followed by the Technologist then technician then craft man....
Am tired of this explanation... I showed u an aticle from a school in the USA that offered all the programme and they explained the difference and there positions... Don't know what to tell u again

ConqueredWest:


Ojukwu never studied Science Engineering or Technology. If I can remember clearly, he studied an Art related course.

He established that college because he knew the importance of Science Engineering and Technology in helping Nigeria achieve self sufficiency after he saw how dependant we were on British products when he was in charge of buying equipments for the army.

At first, he tried to buy military equipments from other countries which earned him British hatred but later saw that even buying from other countries leaves Nigeria at the mercy of Foreign powers.

This made him realised that for Nigeria not to be at a disadvantage, we must be self sufficient.

Now those who went to get the curricular , did not know this difference. For this reason, I believe they never took the complete curricular or they were not shown the complete curricular in order to prevent another Japanese miracle spring up in Africa.

Mrvitalis ,OrlandoOwoh and you should ask yourselves why did the Whites never built a university in Africa excluding South Africa.

If they could deliberately refused to build Universities, why will they give you a complete curricular.

mrvitalis:

Can a nurse surpass a doctor in the hospital career??
HND holder has a very limited knowledge and can never replace an engineer
A welding engineer can never be replaced by a welding Technologist... Even in the oil industry it is observed

ConqueredWest:



Your definition of Technologist is the incomplete definition taught over the years that have kept Nigeria backward Technologically.


If you read your definition, you will see that a Technologist only interpret a Design and instruct a technician.

This definition of Technologist is the reason why our polytechnics missed it and unable to graduate people who can reproduced technological products.

Nigerians should take note

It is one thing to Design and another thing for that Design to Work in Reality.

So many times, the Practicability of a product is different from its original Design.

This is where a Technologist comes in.

THIS IS THE TRUE FUNCTION OF A TECHNOLOGIST

1) Making a Design Practicable if necessary with the knowledge of existing Technology with little or much or no changes to the original Design.

THESE ARE WHAT A TECHNOLOGIST MUST BE TAUGHT IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE HIS GOAL

1) He must be taught how existing technologies in his field of study are produced and how they work.

2) He must be taught things to consider or watch out for in order to make a Design Practicable.


OrlandoOwoh Mrvitalis illuminated93 opey25 santafe princey83

OrlandoOwoh:

The British colonial government built universities in West Africa. University College, Ibadan, Nigeria and the University College, Legon, Ghana were built.

princey83:
This thread is quite interesting. All posters have handled this discussion maturely.
@illuminated: what course(s) were not included from your curriculum that hinders polytechnics from awarding a degree? i believe you are saying your diploma program was modelled like a university degree.
It's important to know that the way an engineering tech curriculum would be taught may differ at different polytechnics..much depends on the instructors. An instructor with an msc or phd would most likely teach you the way he was taught in the university while an instructor with an hnd would teach you the way engineering tech is meant to be taught. i guess that's where the system really needs to be revamped.
Same happens in some advanced country too. The best polytechnics in north america are usually the ones that have mostly diploma grads as instructors.

@mrvitals...i understand your point and the heirachy systems. You are indeed correct that heirachy does exist in Engineering. Someone with an engineering technologist diploma cannot head an Engineering department in a standard engineering organization. It's not uncommon to see a twenty something years old engineer leading or supervising an engineering dept full of engineering technologists with donkey years of experience. It happens in the electrical engineering industry. The difference is the paper. One has an engineering degree and the other an engineering technology diploma.

They cant do without each other. The engineering tech is the middle man. He is the connection between the technician(Journeyman) and the Engineer.

In my opinion..hnd should be scrapped. what we should have is Journeyman : OND: Degree

It's pointless awarding someone that spends 4-5 years in a post secondary institution a diploma!

ConqueredWest:


Pls do your research well

1) Is a University college the same as a University.?

2) Are their curriculars the same.?

3) What is the objective of a University College and the objective of a University.?

4) Are the objectives similar.?

5) What year were the University colleges established established.?

6) Why did Awolowo ,Azikwe , Nkrumah etc school overseas.?


Do your research again before talking

mrvitalis:
The truth is that's polytechnic is never and will never be equal to university, there is no were in the world they are equal...
A typical example is in engineering
Is like saying an engineer is now equal to a Technologist... That's never possible
While u study engineering in the universities u study engineering technology in the polytechnic...
It's like a nurse claiming equality to a doctor it is not right

illuminated93:
Very enlightening post. The engineers claim a technologist isn't creative and empowered enough to come out with designs; Now I'm referring to design in a purely calculative sense. In the developed world,this is true. A technologist is taught how technologies work,how to put components together to produce whatever,how to select materials,how to make designs practicable .He isn't concerned with complex calculations .While an engineer in the developed world is concerned with applying mathematical elements in coming up with a paper work.

The engineer calculates to make sure on paper everything works just fine and within a safe measure,and also as a way of knowing an input safe enough to produce a required output. We understand all these,their roles are different but complementing.

Talking nigeria,the hnd holder is more or less like the bsc holder. Its stupid when a nigerian engineer sees a hnd holder as a junior,reason being, they were taught same courses with little to no differing style of teaching. The argument is this, make the polytechnics degree awarding institutions because they seem not to be different from their university counterparts. Why should the nigerian system create a class struggle among students that learn basically the same thing. The discrimination should only come up among say Ond and Bsc..not a nigerian hnd holder and a nigerian bsc holder. Btw the emphasis is on the NIGERIAN hnd/bsc holder since in Nigeria the European definition of a technologist isn't really followed to the letter.
Cc mrvitalis,conqueredwest,opey25,santafe,OrlandoOwoh

jpphilips:



Most servicing companies place Bsc and Hnd in tandem, it is only JV producing companies that discriminate in the oil industry, however, I think theirs is understandable because both do different jobs, again i have another feeling that it is still the Nigerian bureaucracy that crept into these companies after all, Nigeria still holds 60% of the JVs in most producing companies.

ConqueredWest:
In summary

While an Engineer is Scientifically knowledgeable in order to be able to Design

A Technologist is knowledgeable in existing technologies in his field of study in order to be able to make a Design Practicable if necessary with little or much or no changes to the original Design.

So for Nigeria and Africa to achieve industrial development, Her polytechnics must teach the proper thing and her Technologists must not be seen as inferior to her Engineers and Scientists.

Mrvitalis illuminated93 princey83 orlandoOwoh opey25 Santafe

ConqueredWest:



Your definition of Technologist is the incomplete definition taught over the years that have kept Nigeria backward Technologically.


If you read your definition, you will see that a Technologist only interpret a Design and instruct a technician.

This definition of Technologist is the reason why our polytechnics missed it and unable to graduate people who can reproduced technological products.

Nigerians should take note

It is one thing to Design and another thing for that Design to Work in Reality.

So many times, the Practicability of a product is different from its original Design.

This is where a Technologist comes in.

THIS IS THE TRUE FUNCTION OF A TECHNOLOGIST

1) Making a Design Practicable if necessary with the knowledge of existing Technology with little or much or no changes to the original Design.

THESE ARE WHAT A TECHNOLOGIST MUST BE TAUGHT IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE HIS GOAL

1) He must be taught how existing technologies in his field of study are produced and how they work.

2) He must be taught things to consider or watch out for in order to make a Design Practicable.

olawalepopoola:
No where in the world can HND be compared to B.Sc. No where in the world can you find a HND graduate being admitted into masters without passing through PGD.
Have you noticed that no lecturer in the polytechnic has less than a B.Sc?
Universities are meant to train analytical minds. The results of their analysis is then transferred to technicians and technologists who build into machines.
What is Technology - Technology is a PROCESS or TECHNIQUE of carrying out scientific study.
All technology have always be founded on laws and theories that are only developed in universities across the world.

olawalepopoola:
No where in the world can HND be compared to B.Sc. No where in the world can you find a HND graduate being admitted into masters without passing through PGD.
Have you noticed that no lecturer in the polytechnic has less than a B.Sc?
Universities are meant to train analytical minds. The results of their analysis is then transferred to technicians and technologists who build into machines.
What is Technology - Technology is a PROCESS or TECHNIQUE of carrying out scientific study.
All technology have always be founded on laws and theories that are only developed in universities across the world.

mrvitalis:

Is a pharmacist infero to a doctor??
Can a pharmacist head a doctor??
And they are even both degree holders

agwu123:
No where in the world can HND be compared to B.Sc. No where in the world can you find a HND graduate being admitted into masters without passing through PGD.
Have you noticed that no lecturer in the polytechnic has less than a B.Sc?
Universities are meant to train analytical minds. The results of their analysis is then transferred to technicians and technologists who build into machines.
What is Technology - Technology is a PROCESS or TECHNIQUE of carrying out scientific study.
All technology have always be founded on laws and theories that are only developed in universities across the world.

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Your post above has revealed your level of ignorance. Apart from academic masters (for those that want to go into teaching/lecturing), you can be admitted into master degree programmes with your HND within and outside Nigeria. Please go and read University of Ibadan (UI) Post Graduate School prospectus for various post graduate programmes.

Majority of us here are just advertising our ignorance and shallow mindedness to the entire world. I wouldn't blame you off course, you are beclouded with the ripple effect of the bureaucratic cum political tendencies of the managers of our educational system in Nigeria, a grave sin that have plunged Nigeria to the abyss of underdevelopment over the years.

May God help us always to do the right thing.

mrvitalis:
Is a pharmacist infero to a doctor?? Can a pharmacist head a doctor?? And they are even both degree holders