m_nwankwo:

@Deepsight. It will be difficult to answer your question without explaining what you mean by time. During a dream lasting few seconds, a man can see his birth, youth, adulthood, oldage and even death. Yet what he took few seconds for  experience in a dream may take 70 or more years to experience in full day counsciousness. Is the time in his dream the same with the time in brain day counsciouness. I guess you believe that future events can be predicted. What time is the prophet or seer using to make the predictions? If it is possible to predict the future, why do you think that it is not possible to recall the past? I may make a contribution on time travel but for the moment I will watch the thread develop. Stay blessed.

This is exactly why i opened this thread - because the definition of time itself is so complex!

Someone had indicated that "every moment is imbued with eternity" and that could well explain the dream-time phenomenon you mentioned.

Cardinally we should know if in fact there is nothing like time - just a still permanent instant in which people and matter move, as opposed to the movement of time. But such a concept itself if fraught with difficulties given the fact that the age of the dinosaurs for example, was a different point from the point of World War 2?

I fear that time can never be understood, and i have serious doubts about the claims regarding space-time and the big bang. The universe is expanding into already existing space, so how could it be said that the big bang created space. Space is infinite!

So is time!

Many mystics time travel

Great: when they do that, do they only watch (like a movie) the events of the past or actually enter into that time and are able to change events?

Deep Sight:

^^^ Allta - matter will always have weight once the planet you are talking about has a magnetic core that provides sufficient gravitational pull for life to subsist therein.

And, weightless or not, have you really considered what it will mean to bend space-time? Have you considered that it will doubtless mean massive disruptive movements all matter including planets, stars and galaxies. . . are you aware that even minute cosmological movements could be disastrous, not to talk about bending the element in which everything is contained? ? ?

You are talking about rippping apart the universe!

In reality, it's impossible, I agree.

What if the universe doesn't have to move? what if we have parallel universes and blackholes between them? Have you seen the Movie: "The One (2001) - Jet li"? This is what I refer to by having parallel universes.
This is indeed fictional today, but impossible 1000years from now? I don't think so. The furthest we can travel to the past is relative to the time the first TTMachine was launched. If we can't send matter through these holes, can we send information via subatomic particles, neutrons? Can someone in the future send us the cure for AIDS the very first day we launch our own TTMachine? Dr

What if truely extraterrestials exist, what if they already have built their own TTMachine 1000years ago, what if we can use such machine someday and send information back in time to warn the Titanic Captains or prevent the 9/11 attacks?

Dr. Ronald L. Mallett is a modern physicist who has embarked on the idea of using light to create and control gravity. Ofcourse we know gravity influences or affects time, apparently Dr. Ronald believes light can actually be used somehow to alter the space and time region.
[url]http://www.phys.uconn.edu/~mallett/main/appearances.htm[/url]

Dr. Ronald said: In Einstein's general theory of relativity, both matter and energy can create a gravitational field. This means that the energy of a light beam can produce a gravitational field. His current research considers both the weak and strong gravitational fields produced by a single continuously circulating unidirectional beam of light. In the weak gravitational field of a unidirectional ring laser, it is predicted that a spinning neutral particle, when placed in the ring, is dragged around by the resulting gravitational field.

In a later paper, he argued that at sufficient energies, the circulating laser might produce not just frame-dragging but also closed timelike curves, allowing time travel into the past: For the strong gravitational field of a circulating cylinder of light, he found new exact solutions of the Einstein field equations for the exterior and interior gravitational fields of the light cylinder. The exterior gravitational field is shown to contain closed timelike lines. The presence of closed timelike lines indicates the possibility of time travel into the past. This creates the foundation for a time machine based on a circulating cylinder of light.

At this point, I might be talking jargons, but thank God the concept of Time travelling itself is a jargon. 

I love this thread, and believe me I've learnt a lot, and want to keep learning. What's your take on Dr. Ronald's Theories?

Allta:

What if truely extraterrestials exist, what if they already have built their own TTMachine 1000years ago, what if we can use such machine someday and send information back in time to warn the Titanic Captains or prevent the 9/11 attacks?

If this happens, will the 9/11 event now unhappen, and all the dead therein spring back to life?

Will the Titanic dead re-emerge or perhaps their descendants?

It's unthinkable. If time travel is possible, then certainly changing events in the past is not.

@Deep Sight /Allta
I like your deep sighted and open minded analysis on various topics on this forum with that in mind i would like to have your opinion on the issues raised i raised on this thead https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=137608.msg2324107#msg2324107 sometime ago, your opinion /comments would be highly appreciated.

Deep Sight:

If this happens, will the 9/11 event now unhappen, and all the dead therein spring back to life?

Will the Titanic dead re-emerge or perhaps their descendants?

It's unthinkable. If time travel is possible, then certainly changing events in the past is not.

In "Real Time" and relative to the present, let's assume the past is just sequence of events which can't be changed, but in future lies the sequence of events that can be made by changing the present. That is people can change their present to make their future since the present is directly linked to the future.

Let me explain, a Lagos based job-seeker wakes up and receives 2 phone calls that he's got an offer for job with 2 different companies, say Company A is in Lagos, and Company B is in London. He has a decision to make, a decision that will ultimately shape/change his future. He changes his present by going with the London based Company, and has to leave Nigeria and start living in the UK. This shows that people can indirectly change their future by changing their present.

Assuming it was practical to time travel to the past, at least by sending information. Then "THE PAST" to the piece of information in 2009, becomes the "THE PRESENT" in 2001. If someone could interprete such message, then it will altimately utter the future of "THE PAST". So there wouldn't be 9/11 attack, so many people wouldn't loose their lives etc. and there will proceed, a total different set/stream of events in the world. Maybe there wouldn't be a war in iRaq, maybe iRan wouldn't be motivated to pursue their nuclear weapon. etc.

Now Relative to "THE PRESENT", if say FBI or Mi6 gets a tip today that someone was about to bomb BA at 10:00am, they've got to do something at 09:30am to avert the catastrophe. If they fold their alms now, people will die, and you have some "stream of events" which will follow. If they act now, people will not die, and you will have another "stream or set of events" to follow suite. What this implies is that, someone who will be considered dead in 2010 could still be alive if FBI/Mi6 decides to act today in 2009. If they refused to act, then those people die in the future.

Another example from the bible, God sent a Isaiah to a king Hezekiah that he will surely die unless he puts his house in order. His future relative to 2 Kings 20:1's present was to die, but he did something, he prayed and God changed his future by adding extra 15 years to his life. If he didn't do something about it, he could have died, but he did something about it and lived for another 15years. If someone got a tip about 9/11 and did something about it, people will not die but will live thereafter.

The Future is a stream of parallel events which can be altered, similar to results of a series(eg. Fourier) by altering some variable components of the present. However, relative to the present, the past can't be changed before we build our first Time Machine. To send information or matter to a pre-firstTM will definitely require some form of energy/technology which is out of this world.

^^^ So events that have already happened can be unhappened? Is it really thinkable that already completed events can be wiped out on any dimension.

Because at some point or the other in space-time: the event already took place.

Perhaps laws of physics can't explain the practicality of some of these things, maybe parapsychology or some other form of study can. I really don't want to drift away from the point, but have you read about precognition, remote viewing or extrasensory parapshycology? If you've seen Minority Report, then you know exactly what I'm referring to.

Check this out:
http://www.lfr.org/LFR/csl/media/videoclips/NatGeo/natgeo.html

I mean, how did the guy know where Coren was gonna be at "realtime"? Is this a normal experience?

KunleOshob:

The great scientist albert einstein once said that science is yet to understand one part of a thousandth of what nature as in store for us in other words what we know in science today is 0.0001% of what is available for us to know.

CIA and various military intelligence are already exploring and funding researches over the possibility of remote viewing. This is travelling through space with time almost constant. What if someday, this will be common in men, what if someday man will go beyond using his 4% brain capacity, uses over 80% of his brain capacity to develop a technology which can bend space-time region in other to send subatomic information, or even matter?

Joseph McMoneagle (born January 10, 1946, in Miami, Florida) was involved in Remote Viewing experiments conducted by U.S. Army Intelligence and the Stanford Research Institute. He was one of the original officers recruited for the top-secret program now known as the Stargate Project. Along with Ingo Swann, McMoneagle is best known for claims surrounding the investigation of Remote Viewing and the use of paranormal abilities for military intelligence gathering.

Can we completely nullify or dispute the possibility of McMoneagle's precognitive or remote viewing ability? How else can we explain this ability(asides the realm of spiritual)?

No problem with remote viewing, i ask only CAN AN ALREADY CONCLUDED EVENT BE "UNHAPPENED"?

That's really different from knowing something about to happen and averting it as per Minority Report

I think when one "averts" something, it's the same as "unhappen" it. If Coren where to plant a bomb at that location, if McMoneagle didn't see it, or didn't do anything about it, then the explotion can't be averted (as in unhappened, because it will then "happen"; but if he sees it, and say, CIA does something about it, then they can avert it, as in they can "unhappen" the explosion.

hahahaha    Am I still talking rubbish? I feel so inhumane now, I tell you, don't even know whether I'm still sane or not! ****phew****

No: averting something deals with events that have not yet happened.

Unhappening, deals with already completed events.

Very very very different, Allta

hmm yea ,

But, if we have the ability to go back in time, or send an information back in time, then surely the piece of information will surface before the event in the past. Then relative to the time T when the information surfaced, the event has not yet happen.

So I guess, it's all down to our ability to send information about events, perhaps in a different universal space but back in time so that the people of old will get it before their events happen. This will then give them the knowledge to "avert" their own events before happening, rather than we "unhappen" their events for them.

So since nobody gave us info to avert 9/11 and it went ahead to happen, can we now receive that info after it has happened and unhappen it? ? ? ? ? ?

This is getting inconguous, surely?

According to Dr Ronald's Theories, the first subatomic information we can get from the future will come after the launch of our first successful Time Machine. This means there is no way to unhappen or avert 9/11 and Titanic. If Dr Ronald becomes successful with his project, then we might start seeing wicked unfolding of series of unexplainable subatomic particles from the future in his Time Machine. Hopefully with time, we can study the pattern and be able to decode those information. Have you also heard of the webbot project? http://urbansurvival.com/simplebots.htm Sun Streak, Grill Flame, Center Lane by DIA and INSCOM, and SCANATE by CIA?

Wouldn't it be nice if we could all travel back in time to witness the events of the first century ourselves and resolve all arguments!

Wwe could view the tower of babel, noah's flood (), the parting of the red sea, etc. . .

Wwow, time travel could cement faith!

Deep Sight:

Wouldn't it be nice if we could all travel back in time to witness the events of the first century ourselves and resolve all arguments!

Wwe could view the tower of babel, noah's flood (), the parting of the red sea, etc. . .

Wwow, time travel could cement faith!

It is possible and indeed very easy for those blessed by God with the ability to travel back in time and witness in real time what transpired even before the physical universes came into existence. But this ability is a grace of God and cannot be obtained by employing the faculties of the brain or mind. My simple advice to those who are seriously trying to find the Truth is that instead of engaging in intellectual reasoning, philosophical or theological analysis of religions and their sacred books, they can be thought how to unfold the faculties of the spirit and once the faculties of the spirit are open, they can find irrefutable answers about God and his creation. Besides, there is no point in trying to prove the existence of God to any human being. No human being can prove the existence of God to another. It is not that it is impossible to bring the irrefutable evidence but individuals who can actually bring such evidence are directed from Above to remain silent. Those who do not want to believe for whatever reason should be left alone to follow their own path. Each believer has so much to learn and deepen his recognitions about God and his creation that he or she has no time for intellectual disputations and arguments. Cheers.

True word, Mnwankwo. I guess i should retire.

A thousand days is like a day in the sight of God.

[QUOTE]Let's have a short discourse on the most mysterious thing we all know.

TIME.

Time by its very nature seems to be eternal. And for this reason, questions related to Time have always disturbed thinking people: for the simple fact that it seems virtually incomprehensible.

Some people state that Space and Time were created by the Big Bang.

I am not sure that i subscribe to that, because there could be other universes out there, and we cannot suggest that "Time" would not apply to such Universes even before the Big Bang.

Whatever may be said about the nature of time, my concern within this thread is the possibility of time Travel.

Is it possible to travel into the past? Do the known laws of physics preclude this?

For example:

If you run from point-A to point-B and it takes you 1 minute. . . You double your speed and it takes you 30 seconds. . . you double your speed again and it takes you fifteen seconds, we carry on increasing speed up till the point where it takes you no measurable time to arrive at point B. On, and on we increase the speed untill we arrive at a point whereby you arrive at point B at the exact moment that you left point A. Then we increase the speed even more, and then we arrive at a point that you arrive at Point B 1 second before you left Point A. You have crossed the Time Barrier through speed, and you have traveled to the past.

If time travel is possible, would that affect all ideas of God, religion, spirituality, etc?

Any takers?[/QUOTE]

Hi Deepsight,quite an interesting thread.

We have to know what we mean when we talk of time.it is clear;y a very hard concept to define.But one thing is for sure,time is not a thing which sort of controls the flow of events.Time is simply a measure of change.

Infact time and distance sometimes can be used interchangeably.Eg, in ancient times people knew the distances of places by the number of days it would take to reach there.

The laws of physics do not rule out time time travel,especially time travel to the future is very possible.A person moving at the 99% the speed of light,revolving round the earth would experience a delayed progression of time.i.e His clock would move much slower than the clock on earth.Therefore he would be able to cover 100 years on earth in eg a 1 year.

Therefore if he started speeding round the earth in 2009,and stopped to check his time on the spaceship,he would discover that only a year had passed,but once he came down to earth,he would be shocked to find that 100 years have passed.So effectively he has traveled to the future,Though he may not be able to return to the past.

Travel to the past is very highly unlikely.1st,the only way we could travel to the past is either

A) Travel faster than the speed of light. - Which is impossible according to Einsteins law of special relativity.

any attempts to break the light speed barrier would be futile since the faster you move, the more mass you gain and therefore the more energy you need.As you reach 95% the speed of light,you will need more energy and your energy needs will be tending towards infinity.

The only way to reach the speed limit is to be massless!

B) Tunnel our way using wormholes - Which only exist in theory not in reality.And are highly unstable,they would collapse immediately something or someone would try to tunnel his way.

Even ignoring all the hurdles and assuming that Time travel to the past is possible, logic and common sense tells us that the Past does not exist concurrently with the present.

This is a view held by most philosophers and scientists,It is called the A- Theory of time.I.e we experience temporal becoming,i.e, events come into existence and go out of existence as time moves.

Therefore,once we cross over to the next moment of time,the previous moment of time does not still linger on existing.

If you watched a movie yesterday, once today reaches,the event of you watching the movie is no more.it has happened already.

Therefore even if we could somehow break the laws of einstein or find a way to travel faster than the speed of light,there will be nothing to go back to.

Hitler is still not killing the jews in 1938, it already happened.

Therefore,to me it seems pointless asking what Time travel to the past would do to belief in God, and christian doctrines,since it is impossible to travel to the past.

Will be back to comment.