shadeyinka:


I guess that as scientists, we must clearly define what SPACE is. Should space be defined in terms of the measurable or the immeasurable? Should space be real or abstract? Should space be defined strictly by mathematical descriptions? ...Hm!

LOL. Do you know that this is a classic example of Great Faith! And you know, this Faith isn't bad and neither is it unreasonable.

Your Faith is in the Object of Mathematics: You TRUST the INTEGRITY of Mathematics even though the Answer is in FUTURE.

Its the same with we Theists:

Our Faith is in the Object of God: We TRUST in the INTEGRITY of God the Creator even though the Answer is in the FUTURE.

We are both men of Great Faith my Friend.

Can God be used to make predictions

You believe in a kind of ! I am a little happy with this information even though I understand your definition of this force as Inanimate. Let me Pray for you pls say AMEN

Father, I ask that You reveal Yourself to this Your son who answers to the name ValentineMary on Nairaland in Jesus Name.

I know you laugh at me right now, I don't mind. God still loves you my Friend.

shadeyinka:


You are correct. But since there is no reference for comparison, we have to compare with the best of mans best.

What will it take to write an artificial intelligence code with emotion, will , intellect and consciousness starting from the elementary parilces neutrino, positrons, etc

The code complexity of the universe and life is to say the least dounting

Humans write codes that do their will. But does nature obey anybody's will it does not even obey it's own will as you see stars exploding and destroying planets, etc. To me nature is a blind watchman.

raphieMontella:

who then is that god?
Some causasian(jewish) racist in the sky?
Who cares if my daughter steals #100 from me and is ready to burn her eternally for it...
Some sexually perverted islam in the sky?
Who's ready to give me 72 virgins if i blow my self up for him?
Define God man!

raphieMontella:

i wont!
I do not do such...never generalize..

raphieMontella:

yes...a caluclated guess may be wrong insincerely and sincerely..i only wanted to show its not shvt!

raphieMontella:

ive already dealt with this nde issue before...
Until u can prove otherwise...its as good as dead!

raphieMontella:

You are good physicist...
Answer this...scientifically..
How can a brain which deals on material frequency be able to recollect experiences of a distinct immaterial being which happened at an immaterial frequency?

theskepticalzone.com/wp/split-brain-patients-and-the-dire-implications-for-substance-dualism/ [/b]

raphieMontella:

sincerely..
I believe you know c.80% or more of what we usually term the supernatural are usually undiscovered laws of physics
In truth and in reality...

shadeyinka:


Faith is NOT blind as you suppose. Faith just simply means Trusting in the Integrity of God and His Words. It is more tangible than you think.

An example: If Dangote promises to give you N10 million naira before the end of the month, won't you start making plans for how you will spend the money? Why, because you trust in his asset and ability to give you even much more.

Guesses well calculated which may actually go tangent to the truth. A person can be sincerely wrong isnt it?

Thebtruth is some of us have experiences which cannot be waived away. The fact that you may not have such kinds of experience does not change the reality. Like, how do you convince a person who has a profound near death experience that he was just hallucinating? Your inexperience in NDE could bias you as an atheist to insist on believing contrary.

shadeyinka:


Sorry for replying this late..work!

People don't go to hell because they committed sin. They go to hell because they are sinners (nature of sin)

Since you asked for who God is, it is your responsibility not to criticize but to comprehend who Theist (Christians POV) call God.

God is the Master Scientist, Inventor, Designer and Sole Sponsor of the creation of the Spiritual and Physical Universe.

He made the expanse of the universe as a type of "Garden" for his own pleasure.

Ok. But most people will. I guess I should have used Donald Trump as example. LOL!

You stated your own views and its not the final word!

Scientifically, that is difficult, but I'll try

I read the article in the link above and I can see that the author does not understand the nature of the soul because of his fixed biases.

Most spiritual communication (Spirits Communicating with man)sing lift comes through your spirit (intuition/spontaneous knowledge) and relayed to your soul for processing and further action. (Just like information through your bodies sensory organs gets relayed into your soul).

Think of your soul(will, emotion, intellect) like the Operating System and Associated Application program

If I use your statement of undiscovered law of physics, could it be that Atheist Scientists are operating strictly from the "Classical Point of View" in their comprehension of life? (Man exists as a singularity and not a duality/trinity)

lordnicklaus:


Would that account for parallel universes? If that is so, then there are dimensions beyond this present multiversal dimension. There is a higher sphere which is beyond "time and space" and God would exist in such an unreachable sphere and thus He would not be subject to the principle of "cause and effect" and it is this dimension that I deem "infinitesimal". Time and motion are the major dimensions of space. All other quantities such as Heat, Entropy, Enthalpy, Kinetics, Light and its rectilinear propagation, Elasticity and quantum fluctuations are dependent of these two fundamental quantities. So, all sub-physical mechanisms which work according to the listed quantities can only be verified in a universe possessing the two fundamental quantities.

AnonyNymous:

Read up on the M-theory. Its pure math.

shadeyinka:


M-theory is too complicated except maybe for those doing PhDs in the field. I know what maths theory says but I am more of an experimentalist than a theoretical mathematician/physicist. I always try to visualize what theory says.

The question of space doesn't look too complex. Rewind just to 10 seconds after the bang and answer these questions.

Was space simultaneously created as the bang occurred? Implication: space is still being created as the universe expands continually.

Just after the bang, were the dispersions moving at the speed of light, moving at infinite speed or moving at the current speed of expansion of the universe? Implication: space can be created only if the dispersions moved at an infinite speed, other than that the implication is that space is still being created as we speak. The energy released would be massive and we would have detected it

ValentineMary:

Space is the boundless three-dimensional
extent in which objects and events have
relative position and direction. Physical space
is often conceived in three linear dimensions,
although modern physicists usually consider it,
with time, to be part of a boundless four-
dimensional continuum known as spacetime.
So space is real.

ValentineMary:

Don't misinterpret faith for trust. We trust the mathematical method because it has yielded good result which can be trusted and we use it to make predictions.

I don't have faith is science because once a theory is disproved, it is thrown away. But if I had faith then I would still cling to it no matter what. As Carl Sagan would say "Science is not just a body of knowledge, it is a way of thinking" the ability to do away with disproved or unproven theories

ValentineMary:

Can God be used to make predictions

ValentineMary:

LOL. Which God ??

ValentineMary:

Humans write codes that do their will. But does nature obey anybody's will it does not even obey it's own will as you see stars exploding and destroying planets, etc. To me nature is a blind watchman.

0ubenji:
OH lawd!..boi..u hit it mehn..
quite strong perspectives u very well raised and dissected thr..
the beauty of this sort of debates ain't in the spoofed assertions of what we deem correct or incorrect..but how well we make convincing expressions of whatever perspective we hold onto..
something appealing to reasoning..

AnonyNymous:

Space is still being created as we speak. The universe is expanding. Before the big bang, nobody knows for sure, although there are many hypotheses.

shadeyinka:


As a Theist, I believe that both Real and Virtual particle were created simultaneously and from the same source

If our universe was created from the black hole of another universe, it still doesn't change the question of the laws of physics being violated. Its a question of extending time back to the formation of the universe who gave birth to our own dear universe.

If another universe can exist, then, one should NOT doubt the existence of other Consciousness. As Theists, we say God is THE Consciousness the origino-uno of everything.

..which is still an unverified THEORY (intelligent postulates)

I laughed continuously for 15 minutes on reading this.

The God we talk about is not subject to time because He is not made from ATOMS and MOLECULES. He is not subject to Gravity because He does not have a mass. He is not subject to the Laws of nature because He WROTE them.

We are not bound to the rules of the computer because we made them!

Does the ATOM look unplanned to you?
How about Chemical Reactions?
How come the laws of Physics are "unchanging"

DNA unplanned?
Cells unplanned?

You know what I see, the smaller you go, the more detailed is the Meticulous rules imposed to govern it behaviour.

How do you know etcivingiving enclosure is not nature made? Building Blocks, Cement, Functionality etc

You may put your bet on gods however the harmony of the building blocks of the universe suggests ONE designer. Of course, God is a Spirit who has a kingdom of Spirit beings created for His kingdom. Some of the dissidents among them are what some humans call their own god!

shadeyinka:


Yes the Sumerians

the Greeks.

Antiparticle:
Newton's Laws of Motion are only valid in classical physics. They are not valid for quantum physics or before time and space existed. Hence, the premise of your assertion about the big bang is inherently faulty.

shadeyinka:


You got it wrong my Friend.
The laws of Nature are the Codes; God is the Programmer

That has always been the Theists position.

If u claim God is the programmer, then who programmed God if God can't be programmed, can't we assume same for the universe Can't it be an auto programming ?

ValentineMary:

And this was the wisdom that made him say that bats are birds, that we should kill stubborn kids, that we should kill unbelievers I guess u have a different definition for wisdom.

Science does not claim to be sure, that's why we still do research. But religion tells us that they are sure their creation story is right. Muslims think they are right, xtians think they are right, Hindus think they are right. But science does not claim to be right and we are the ones speculating abi


What if u die and discover that Omenra is the true God what would be ur fate? u can't just pick one of the 5,000 Gods and ask what if am wrong.


The same way a muslim would say accept Muhammed or be doomed. Why should I believe u over them?



All the Gods humans worship all claim to be living Gods. Why do u think ur own is special
Only a bigger fool would believe that day and night came before the Sun.

ValentineMary:

If u claim God is the programmer, then who programmed God if God can't be programmed, can't we assume same for the universe Can't it be an auto programming ?

shadeyinka:


You summarily dismissed the cross talks here as if your view is finality. Slow down get the gist

I perfectly agree with you, Newtons laws are only valid within Classical physics.
1. The arguments had been that the fundermental laws of physics had a beginning (after the bang).
2. Time existed before the b bang

If things like conservation of energy and mass, law of inertia, laws of entropy etc had a beginning, as Theists we say it points to a Creation. Like if time existed before the bang, what initiated the Bang?

Its like the case of the chicken and the egg, which came first!
Quantum or Classical States, which came first.

Better still, can Quantum States exist without the Classical laws?

Antiparticle:
Quantum mechanics gave way to classical mechanics.

In any case, a creation moment doesn't not imply Yahweh. It could imply multiple gods, or another god, or no god. There's zero introvertible evidence to leap that it implies Yahweh.

raphieMontella:

not everything they said they did is through..its sometimes a case of ''finding what you want''..
The stuff im just yet to grasp about them is their knowledge of uranus and neptune...
But if their story is true...those ''aliens'' who supposedly stayed with them for eons of years would have taught them better stuffs like metal refining,,bore holes not stonehedges,,building of sundails with stones thats lame

the greeks had brains...600BC is close enough for brains to be put to use

raphieMontella:

i mean the virtual particles which come into existence via Q.F
or wait do you mean thats how it was created to be? Like the plan for virtual particles or something?

raphieMontella:

that other universe which pro'ly gave rise to ours does not necessarily be ''eternal''..

raphieMontella:

nope! Its not a postulate
The inflation theory is verified...
Its like this...nigeria plays a match against india and at the end of 90 minutes youre told nigeria won by 1:0..
Its only natural to know that a goal was scored..thats inflation theory..
Also inflation theory predicted Gravitational waves would be in existence...some twenty + years later...(2015/2016) Gravitational waves was confirmed to be in existence

raphieMontella:

lol..for real?

raphieMontella:

i hope you know this is what ''you(theists)'' deem the god to be..
The starter/starters of the cosmos may not also be the starter/starters of bio life..

raphieMontella:

quite true if you only mean that on a mechanical aspect and not a moral aspect..

raphieMontella:

what kind of design/plan involves collision of galaxies?
Supernova's exterminating planets?
Natural disasters?
Dying stars ripping planets apart?
Eptomic pregnancies?
Whats the use of Human tail bones?
Design is supposed to be optimal!

raphieMontella:

stars like Fu orionis that started forming in the last century..how do u know that its not vinshu that is not controlling the creation of the star?

?? A computer is made by many persons...but its processes are in harmony oga...
Whats up la?

Eptomic pregnancies?
Whats the use of Human tail bones?
Design is supposed to be optimal!

How about tail bones, male breast, etc so called useless component of the body?

shadeyinka:


You just put in other words my arguments. Kudos Bro

shadeyinka:


An Atheist computer talking to a Theist computer: Are you saying we were programmed by humans! Then who programmed the humans?

What an extremely intelligent question? Are humans programmed? Can a computer comprehend reproduction?

Think!

Your question was If God programmed everything who programmed God!

shadeyinka:


Which is more efficient code re-use, or better still Object Oriented Programming where we have Inheritance and Polymorphism. The same basic code that programmed the Cells, Bilateral symmetries, Dualization of some essential appendages like eyes, ears was used and reused in an object oriented fashion.

flamingREED:
..

0ubenji:
lolz..i'm a christian like u too..but ur second pic is ludicrous mehn..
If u bliv every word the Bible says..then it's one of 2 things..
1. You either don't read ur Bible well enuf to see some details of irrefutable dissonance
2. Or u deliberately chose ignorance, hiding under the umbrella of faith..


However, No 2 is a perfect description of religious fanatism..
The very thing I've always and will always fight against.. Which makes the sufferers of this syndrome regard me an atheist..

flamingREED:


I can accompany you to the gates of hell
And ensure you give yourself over to them
If you can't breathe for His truth's sake:

1 Timothy 1
20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

raphieMontella:
The predecessing quotes are an argument for another day!:-)

u didnt answer me..
Whats the use/design of tail bones?
And the design of natural disasters?
And how about the level of junk dna in our system?
All the design we see is consistent with the predictions of a blind mindless designer#nature..
On eptomic pregnancies
you say demons cause this..
This is the reason why i said extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidences but you believe this is far-fetched.

ValentineMary:

My point is that not everything has to be programmed because it would lead to an infinity chain of programming.

shadeyinka:

An Atheist computer talking to a Theist computer: Are you saying we were programmed by humans! Then who programmed the humans?

What an extremely intelligent question? Are humans programmed? Can a computer comprehend reproduction?

Think!

Your question was If God programmed everything who programmed God!

0ubenji:

U wanna accompany me to the gates of hell..haha..see heaven's registrar..u're welcome..
I've always known u to keep quoting a barrage of scriptures(U don't understand urself) as a way to debate. I fink ur definition of Christianity is hinged on cramming of scriptures..lolz..I know the kinda churches that groom peeps like you..smh

U obviously skipped the 19th verse of that 1Timothy 1 that says:
19. Holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith
Now, let me help u define conscience

conscience
noun
1. conscience, scruples, moral sense, sense of right and wrong motivation deriving logically from ethical or moral principles that govern a person's thoughts and actions.

2. conformity to one's own sense of right conduct.

U mentioned truth...but u don't seem to knw wat that is..

Hosea 4:6 shud console you brother..may God help you.