noetic15:

On the contrary, your post simply supports the fact that I am an objective person.

1. Heaven is the creation and home of Jesus. . . Jesus is also the ONLY onw who ever promised anyone a place in heaven. The same Jesus clearly stated rules with regards to admission into heaven. I think it is objective to state that Dalai Lama and Ghandi should not be bothered about heaven since they do not believe in it. . . . . but if they bothered about heaven as promised by Jesus. . . then one can objectively state that they are both candidates of hell. . . . .this is no dogma, its as simple as the rules with regards to admission into heaven.
If the subject was allah's paradise, then all one has to do is to be a terrorist and kill in the name of allah. . . . . . that way he gets to paradise. There is no dogma about it. . . .allah has stated his rules for his sexual infested paradise.

2. I have heard people say that theists cannot be objective, just like u have also asserted. I disagree simply because, I have NEVER been asked any question about xtinaity which I waived away on the premise of dogma. . .I have always given logical, objective and intellectual potent answers which always support my notion that xtianity is logical in all ramifications.

3. Faith in God is NOT irrational, contrary to your claim.

In the bible, all those who had faith in God were STRENGTHENED before their request was granted. what do u think it means to be strengthened?

4. According to your definition of objectivity. . .I believe that I am qualified in this context. The unbiased view is that anyone who does not meet the criteria of heaven does NOT make heaven and that includes Dalai Lama and Ghandi.

Man, you need to change your name. You are not noetic at all. Even the more vulgar faculties of perception seem to be faulty. What you have given above is a classic demonstration of lack of objectivity.

See christian fighting themselves. Allah thank u for making me a muslim, alhamdulilah

KunleOshob:

The above post as just proven that you certainly have no clue what it means to be objective.

Pastor AIO:

Man, you need to change your name. You are not noetic at all. Even the more vulgar faculties of perception seem to be faulty. What you have given above is a classic demonstration of lack of objectivity.

what stops u two from coming up with an analysis? I can hardly make sense of the above, in light of my last post.

mazaje:

False. . .you have NEVER been objective. . .Example when you read the bible where the bible god commands people to rape, kill, steal and destroy others and even sacrifice them up as a burnt offering unto him you over look it and when asked you bring up meaningless excuses that yahweh has every right to tell his chosen men to kill the unbelievers. . .when moslems go around killing christians based on what their own holy book tells them you complain that allah is bad because he tells people to kill unbelievers forgetting that your own god also told people to rape, kill, sacrifice unbelivers to him as burnt offering and destroy the unbelievers completely. . . .You go around saying that allah is a bad god but when you read the passages of your own bible where your own god tells people to do exactly what allah tells his people to do you explain your away with unreasonable answers when moslems give you the same answer which you give as an explanation for your you dismiss theirs. . . .

Abuzola: Yahweh is a bad god because he ordered the killing and destruction of people including innocent children.
Neotic: No yahweh is not a bad god he is a loving good more loving than your muderous and evil allah.
Abuzola: No alah is the most merciful, he is good and just, Yahweh is evil read the bible half of it is full of death and destruction of the unbelivers.
Neotic: Yahweh has the right to command people to kill unbelivers so what is your problem the people killed, raped and destroyed were unbelivers so they derserbve it. Allah on the other hand tells moslems to kill unbelievers so allah is a bad god. . .
Abuzola: How can you say allah is a bad god when he tells people to kill the unbelivers? unbelief is a sin and all the unbelivers deserve to die so allah is not a bad god your own god also told people to kill and destroy unbelievers. . . so allah is merciful and just. . .
Neotic: yahweh has the right to tell people to kill unbelievers so there is no problem there. . .he is the creator of heaven and earth. . .allah is an evil god because he tells people to kill unbelievers. . .
Abuzola: You are not a serious person. . .

Mazaje u are very wrong.

I have never defended or attempted to defend the perceived violence in the OT. All I ever did was to offer my opinion on the subject. how does that affect my objectivity.

why are xtians not practising this violent acts today? why are muslims the only one practising violence?

Purist:

@noetic15

No sir, you're wrong. My post suggests no such thing. On the contrary, your rejoinder has only assisted in accentuating the point I made about your supposition earlier on.

I dont see how.

The Christian version of heaven, yes. Again, you have only given the subsequent explanations under the belief that your own version of heaven is the true one, [/b]which of course shows that no one can EVER be objective when it comes to matters of faith.

I hate to think u simply choose to disagree with me for no concrete reason. DeepSight made mention of heaven and he was also specific about the jewish carpenter. . . .so what other heaven are we talking about?. . . . .so why should another version of heaven be subject to the debate?

So their strength automatically translates to rationality? See, I have read so many times here where even Christians have admitted that faith is irrational. You claiming otherwise, to me, is an attempt to just dance around with words. "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the [b]evidence of things not seen." If you really can rationalize that, I'll be shocked.

u have not told me what it means to be strenghtened?

An object is something presented to the senses that is independent from the mind perceiving it. Due to that independence an objective statement would be true no matter who was hearing or saying it.

Things like personal opinion, personal convictions etc that cannot be demonstrated to another person are rarely objective.
Zoroastrianism

The prophet Zoroaster (Zarathustra) understood the cosmos as divided in enduring conflict between good and evil, truth and the lie, darkness and light (but not body and soul or spirit and flesh). After nine thousand years, a purging cataclysm separates the opposing forces and subordinates evil to good. At this time, the eternal community of good prevails in light and annihilates the community of the lie. The Book of the Righteous Wiraz fixes the Cinvat Bridge between hell and heaven. Only the saved can cross it. The morally neutral inhabit the heavens of the sun, moon, and stars. Above them paradisaical gardens of perpetual radiance welcome the faithful. Beneath the bridge, condemned by their own deeds, which appear dramatically before them personified as aggressive hags, the wicked endure graphically described tortures. They beg for the nine thousand years to end. When it does, their punishment proves temporary.



Read more: http://science.jrank.org/pages/9592/Heaven-Hell-Zoroastrianism.html#ixzz0TZN3vLXz

This is the earliest record of belief in Heaven that we have today.

Pastor, you too much.

I think you should go into teaching Philosophy or something related. You would contribute a lot to reducing ignorance in the world. Please do not even consider leaving NL. You have to learn to take the good with the bad and the ugly.

Pastor AIO:

Read more: http://science.jrank.org/pages/9592/Heaven-Hell-Zoroastrianism.html#ixzz0TZN3vLXz[/color]

This is the earliest record of belief in Heaven that we have today.  

Jews were under Persian rule for about 200 years before Alexander the baddest guy showed up. 200 YEARS!!! I'm pretty sure they could have learned a thing or two.

Religious doctrine are a product of society. If new theology is not developed to meet the needs of the people, the religion loses it's appeal.

Pastor AIO:

An object is something presented to the senses that is independent from the mind perceiving it. Due to that independence an objective statement would be true no matter who was hearing or saying it.

Things like personal opinion, personal convictions etc that cannot be demonstrated to another person are rarely objective.
Zoroastrianism

The prophet Zoroaster (Zarathustra) understood the cosmos as divided in enduring conflict between good and evil, truth and the lie, darkness and light (but not body and soul or spirit and flesh). After nine thousand years, a purging cataclysm separates the opposing forces and subordinates evil to good. At this time, the eternal community of good prevails in light and annihilates the community of the lie. The Book of the Righteous Wiraz fixes the Cinvat Bridge between hell and heaven. Only the saved can cross it. The morally neutral inhabit the heavens of the sun, moon, and stars. Above them paradisaical gardens of perpetual radiance welcome the faithful. Beneath the bridge, condemned by their own deeds, which appear dramatically before them personified as aggressive hags, the wicked endure graphically described tortures. They beg for the nine thousand years to end. When it does, their punishment proves temporary.



Read more: http://science.jrank.org/pages/9592/Heaven-Hell-Zoroastrianism.html#ixzz0TZN3vLXz

This is the earliest record of belief in Heaven that we have today.

did u read Deepsight's initial question? was he not specific about the heaven he was refering to? did u not hear him talk about the JEWISH CARPENTER?

In light of the question asked by deepsight, and in light of the subject being the heaven promised by Jesus. . . . my response was objective.

Krayola:



Jews were under Persian rule  for about 200 years before Alexander the baddest guy showed up. 200 YEARS!!! I'm pretty sure they could have learned a thing or two.

You mean like some nice lofty sounding epithets to address an exalted being such as God.  

In western languages, the term shah is often used as an imprecise rendering of shāhanshāh (meaning king of kings). Usually shortened to shāh it is the term for an Iranian monarch and was used by most of the former rulers of the Iranian empires, many nationalities of Iranian origin, or under cultural influence.

Yep!  King of Kings, Lord of Lords was borrowed from the persians who addressed their kings this way. And many other stylistic influences came from Persia.

noetic15:

did u read Deepsight's initial question? was he not specific about the heaven he was refering to? did u not hear him talk about the JEWISH CARPENTER?

In light of the question asked by deepsight, and in light of the subject being the heaven promised by Jesus. . . . my response was objective.

My apologies.  I get you now.  Yes in the context of christianity no one no matter how loving they were could enter heaven without Jesus. 

However, how does one come to express love without Christ in them in the first place?

Actually, don't answer the above question.  It is too off topic.

Pastor AIO:

You mean like some nice lofty sounding epithets to address an exalted being such as God.  
Yep!  King of Kings, Lord of Lords was borrowed from the persians who addressed their kings this way. And many other stylistic influences came from Persia.

haha. I didn't even know that.

I was talking about the whole idea of believers going to heaven, non believers going to hell etc. God had promised them greatness if they obeyed the laws, and imperial authority challenged the core of their beliefs. People were asking questions and the religious leaders had to be creative. . .so they started borrowing ideas from Persian's and by the time the Romans came hundreds of years later some of those new ideas had become pretty popular. This is what Jesus was surrounded by growing up. . . Jewish,Persian, Greek, and Roman cultures. We don't have details of Jesus's youth but we can reconstruct his surroundings and try to get an idea of what his influences may have been.

When will muslims leave Christian threads? (hisses)

babaearly:

Christians should have a seperate board for wholesome christian discussions with a CHRISTIAN MODERATOR.

i wouldnt be surprised if the next thing we hear is you campaigning for the postion.

animal dey wear agbada put on coat.

@noetic15

noetic15:

I hate to think u simply choose to disagree with me for no concrete reason. DeepSight made mention of heaven and he was also specific about the jewish carpenter. . . .so what other heaven are we talking about?. . . . .so why should another version of heaven be subject to the debate?

I apologize if I come across as being intransigent.  I just can't seem to be able to reconcile your statements with your self-acclaimed objectivity.  DeepSight was specific about the Jewish Carpenter because he is fully aware of your religious inclination.  He would have made mention of Mohammad if he was talking to a Muslim.  At the end, I see his mention of heaven as just a euphemism for "escaping some eternal punishment".  The point is, if you really can give a fair judgement of those two, independent of any religious beliefs, you'd see the flaw in your assumed "objectivity".  If you really do believe these two fellows will burn in some hell for eternity, and you still maintain that you're being objective, then I'm afraid, very afraid.

noetic15:

u have not told me what it means to be strenghtened?

strength·en (strngkthn, strng-, strn-)
v. strength·ened, strength·en·ing, strength·ens
v.tr.
To make strong or increase the strength of.
v.intr.
To become strong or stronger.

How does this relate to faith being (ir)rational?

Shameless pastor and his cohort busy disputing whether christ shit or not. What a disgrace to pope benedict. Proudly a muslim

Purist:

@noetic15

I apologize if I come across as being intransigent.  I just can't seem to be able to reconcile your statements with your self-acclaimed objectivity.  DeepSight was specific about the Jewish Carpenter because he is fully aware of your religious inclination.  He would have made mention of Mohammad if he was talking to a Muslim.  At the end, I see his mention of heaven as just a euphemism for "escaping some eternal punishment".  The point is, if you really can give a fair judgement of those two, independent of any religious beliefs, you'd see the flaw in your assumed "objectivity".  If you really do believe these two fellows will burn in some hell for eternity, and you still maintain that you're being objective, then I'm afraid, very afraid.

1. you are being un-objective here. if the question was generally about the concept of heaven, then I am allowed to present an ambiguous answer, but since it is about the jewish carpenter's heaven. . . , what then is the case of un-objectivity against me? why are u attempting to reconstruct DeepSight's intent and question to suit ur preconceived notion?

2. I dont how my position on their hell-bound status antagonises my objectivity. I am not a politically correct christian but this does not stop me from being objective. As far as Jesus heaven is concerned, they are not partakers. If however u think that my answer in not objective. . . . , why not produce urs?

strength·en (strngkthn, strng-, strn-)
v. strength·ened, strength·en·ing, strength·ens
v.tr.
To make strong or increase the strength of.
v.intr.
To become strong or stronger.

How does this relate to faith being (ir)rational?

I like ur definition. Can u then reconcile this definition to the life of Abraham . . . . . .cos Abraham is the father of faith.

next thread.

NOETIC1000 -

For the avoidance of doubt, i really did not mean to speak of the "heaven" of Jesus per se.

I meant to speak of a general state of well-being for a human spirit after this earth-life (i will define that later).

I meant to state, that it is inconceivable, that courageous, righteous, principled, patriotic, and peace-loving men such as Mahatma Ghandi and the Dalai Lama, would have any spiritually negative state post-death (which is what you call hell).

For how can we, of different races, tribes, histories and backgrounds, be expected to dovetail into the same dogma?

Do you think that God requires of any human-being an exact knowledge on advanced theological questions such as whether Jesus is God, or who Jesus is, or whether his death on the cross was a sacrifice, etc?

No open minded person can think such. Even in the context of Religion.

There are two reasons for this.

   1. God can only require of mere man - sincerity and goodness. Nothing more. For what does man know? What can he know? Although you will deny it, if you were born outside a christian context, you would find the claims of Jesus' divinity and redemptive sacrifice entirely absurd.

  2. Even Jesus very own words, severally suggested that what was required was a good clean heart, and nothing more.

I will not attempt to elaborate on the above, because i see that you are so dogmatically inclined that you will never appreciate the point that a Jaja of Opobo, who lived long after the so called crucifixion, could never be expected by God to have any, or an exact knowledge of, or faith in the Jewish Magician. What will be required of him is goodness, and sincerity of heart to his fellow man.

Period.

ANY person, who asserts that only people adhering to his religion can attain spiritual salvation is absolutely deluded. More importantly, such a person is yet to grasp the most basic spiritual laws, such as -

"Whatever a man soweth, the same shall he reap".

So men who sow goodness, will reap goodness.

Regardless of whether they ever heard the word "Jesus" or not.

bunch of confused FOOLS

NDI ARA

BLAH BLAH BLAH

vanni:

bunch of confused FOOLS

"Hello Winning Winners, please follow the word of advice given by olaolu and pleeeeeeeeeeeeease dont RESPOND, REPLY, OR DEFEND comments by unwelcomed guests or CRITICS. Dont even give them the priviledge of acknowledging that you have SEEN their COMMENTS . Remember Bishop Oyedepo always says that "People's opinion is a natural entitlement, it a gift from God and without repentance. so PLEEEEASE IGNORE theM and when they see that no one is responding, they will eventually LEAVE in shame. You see, it's very annoying when someone tries hard to get your attention and you dont give it to them. So please use that wisdom here on this thread and let keep the Winners thread growing. WINNERS ALL THE WAY   
JESUS IS LORD,

By Olaolu

Winning Winners.

PLEAAAAAAASE,

This page is for us.
But in case a foreigner came to Critisize us.
Don't bother replying, disprooving or defending.
Because our PaPa will never do so.

When you know you are blessed, whatever anyone say can not unbless you.
Tats and +osisi, don't waste time on them. If Jesus had wasted his time on this set of people,
He would have been unable to fulfill his Ministry.

I remember once when papa was asked why he was not on Televison broadcasting,
He answered, " because I am busy telling the Vision.
Despite all critics at all level, Papa kept soaring.
No one moves at a good speed looking back.

Sir/ Ma, let us grow with Papa. doing what he could have done in every situation.
Remember, JESUS said, " if you are Abraham's seed, do what Abraham did".

Thanks to you all.
Bless uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WINNERS.doc
WINNERS.doc (23.5 KB - downloaded )

yhst-37939424361191_2068_1347885.gif (16.22 KB, 110x150 )

19a.jpg (41 KB, 562x400 )"   Authored by Vanni

'O people of the scripture (christians) ! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of God aught but the truth. The messiah jesus son of mary was no more than a messenger of God and His word 'BE' which He bestowed on Mary and a spirit created by Him, so believe in God and His messengers. Say not,'trinity' ! Cease ! It is better for you, for God is the only one God , glorified is He far exalted above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And God is All sufficient as a Deposer of affairs' Quran 4:171

Deep Sight:

NOETIC1000 -

For the avoidance of doubt, i really did not mean to speak of the "heaven" of Jesus per se.

I meant to speak of a general state of well-being for a human spirit after this earth-life (i will define that later).

I meant to state, that it is inconceivable, that courageous, righteous, principled, patriotic, and peace-loving men such as Mahatma Ghandi and the Dalai Lama, would have any spiritually negative state post-death (which is what you call hell).

For how can we, of different races, tribes, histories and backgrounds, be expected to dovetail into the same dogma?

Do you think that God requires of any human-being an exact knowledge on advanced theological questions such as whether Jesus is God, or who Jesus is, or whether his death on the cross was a sacrifice, etc?

No open minded person can think such. Even in the context of Religion.

There are two reasons for this.

   1. God can only require of mere man - sincerity and goodness. Nothing more. For what does man know? What can he know? Although you will deny it, if you were born outside a christian context, you would find the claims of Jesus' divinity and redemptive sacrifice entirely absurd.

  2. Even Jesus very own words, severally suggested that what was required was a good clean heart, and nothing more.

I will not attempt to elaborate on the above, because i see that you are so dogmatically inclined that you will never appreciate the point that a Jaja of Opobo, who lived long after the so called crucifixion, could never be expected by God to have any, or an exact knowledge of, or faith in the Jewish Magician. What will be required of him is goodness, and sincerity of heart to his fellow man.

Period.

ANY person, who asserts that only people adhering to his religion can attain spiritual salvation is absolutely deluded. More importantly, such a person is yet to grasp the most basic spiritual laws, such as -

"Whatever a man soweth, the same shall he reap".

So men who sow goodness, will reap goodness.

Regardless of whether they ever heard the word "Jesus" or not.

u cannot shift the goal post in the middle of a game.

Nawa o

'say (O Muhammad) 'i am only a man like you, it has been revealed to me that ur God is one God, so whoever hopes for the meeting with his lord, let him work righteousness and associate none partner in worship of his Lord' Quran 18:110

gbam!!!!!! ;d ;d ;d

At least Pastor AKO is happy he is giving infidels a field day.

The rock read this

'and even if We had sent down to you (O muhammad) a message written on paper so that they could touch it with their hands, the disbelievers would have said,' this is nothing but pure magic' Quran 6:7

Dont waste Your time because i dont share in your fanacism.

Maybe u did not read it, read it again plz

'and even if We had sent down to you (O muhammad) a message written on paper so that they could touch it with their hands, the disbelievers would have said,' this is nothing but pure magic' Quran 6:7

Noetic 1,2,3,4,56,7,8,9 to 100, is a gambler and never objective for once.

@Banom

let me go look up ur site jor!