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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God (57276 Views)
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Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by KingEbukasBlog(m): 11:26pm On Jan 11, 2017 |
MrMontella: The deists I know even in History are repulsed by atheism : DeepSight UyiIredia (you need to see how atheism irks him ) , Albert Einstein , Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz etc . But 4kings unctuous admiration for atheism leaves room for doubt - he could be an atheist clandestinely . |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by dalaman: 11:26pm On Jan 11, 2017 |
MrMontella: KingEbukasBlog doesn't want to believe that 4kings is a deist |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by MrMontella(m): 11:29pm On Jan 11, 2017 |
Here the word "seed" is literally in the Greek "sperma." This same Greek word is translated in other verses as "descendant (s)" or "offspring."...which means physical descendants...or as paul put it according to the flesh.... I believe you can use common sense..or unless you still want schooling on jewish culture of the interpretation... I also saw how you changed ''form of god'' to ''god''....well done 1 Like |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by KingEbukasBlog(m): 11:30pm On Jan 11, 2017 |
dalaman: As in eh . I strongly doubt it . I mean I understand the religious skepticism but two things here : 1. The other side 4kings seems to accept without skepticism is heretical and heterodox and you wonder why he took such position 2. He takes the side of atheists a lot . I mean its shocking But that is his business sha . Just don't lick that atheist booty where I dey 4kings |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by MrMontella(m): 11:31pm On Jan 11, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog:irreligious = atheism.. Carry on |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by KingEbukasBlog(m): 11:32pm On Jan 11, 2017 |
MrMontella: I read the meaning here sometime : https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-son-of-David.html And this rebuttal is too weak bro .. haba |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by KingEbukasBlog(m): 11:43pm On Jan 11, 2017 |
MrMontella: You are on a thread created by me on being without religion and acknowledging the existence of God and somehow you think I'm equating irreligion to atheism? You are 4kings' fidus Achates , no wonder both of you think alike |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by MrMontella(m): 12:37am On Jan 12, 2017 |
Shey una dey see this boy? How does ''seed of david according to the flesh'' translate to ''son of david''? The only connective thing in that page are these this is a rubbish stupid claim.. 1)Bloodlines and tribal lines cannot be passed on by adoption according to jewish law 2)Joseph cannot pass on what he does not have... Joseph descended from jehoiachin (Matt 1:1) who fell under the curse of yahweh that none of his descendants could ever sit upon the throne of david. (Jeremiah 22:30; 36:30)...and being King on David's throne is a must for the messiah...unless jesus is not the messiah..and so cannot have been a descendant of david through joseph and remain the messiah.. again.. 1) Tribal affiliation and bloodlines go only through the father and not the mother ( Numbers 34:14-29,Numbers 1:18-44) 2)if Jesus became a ''seed of david'' through mary..then he could not have been the messiah..because the Messiah must be a descendent of David through his son Solomon(I Chron 17:11-14, 22:9-10) 3)if jesus became a ''seed of david'' through mary..he could not have been the messiah because Luke 3:27 lists shealtiel and zerubbabel in his geneology...These two also appear in Matt 1:12 as descendants of the cursed jehoiachin..if mary descends from them,it would also disqualify her from being a messianic progenitor... P.s i took my time to answer you because i wanted to make sure you keep quiet this time and that you will 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by MrMontella(m): 12:41am On Jan 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog:i wonder why you think the existence of the nazaranes validates jesus...they are no better than paul. |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by MrMontella(m): 12:41am On Jan 12, 2017 |
dalaman:no mind am |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by KingEbukasBlog(m): 12:53am On Jan 12, 2017 |
MrMontella: I don't think you actually understand what you are arguing against . I am saying that there is no way Jesus came from Joseph's sperm then my link explains what the expression "seed of David" means : Primarily, the title “Son of David” is more than a statement of physical genealogy Secondly , since Christ had no earthly father to bear his surname or hereditarily tied to before his adoption , he then becomes solely the legal son of Joseph . Ps : Read and understand next time |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by MrMontella(m): 12:57am On Jan 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog:the bolded statement is bull. Fantasy..with no evidence... According to jewish law...bloodlines and triballines cannot be passed on by adoption... Did you miss this? Or did you miss the messianic prophecy that you have to be a ''descendant''...is the definition of ''descendant'' hard for you? 1 Like |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by KingEbukasBlog(m): 1:39am On Jan 12, 2017 |
MrMontella: You and your knee-jerk responses . Christ was not adopted from someone whom he should have been hereditarily tied to therefore he is Joseph's legal son since He was born as the son of Mary by blood and Mary was married to Joseph . Then primarily , the title “Son of David” is more than a statement of physical genealogy : whether you agree with this or not does not change anything I'm not sure why I'm even arguing about this . 1 Like |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by MrMontella(m): 1:49am On Jan 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog:stories with no evidence... Mind you... It all started from ''seed of david''... Like i said..the word used by paul is ''sperma''..which means literally--offspring or descendant... To further butress what paul had in mind..by paul himself... He added---''according to the flesh''... Maybe adoption can also be according to the flesh... The primary subject is ''virgin -birth''... Whether jesus fulfilled the prophecy..can come later... Paul believed in a literal birth of christ. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by KingEbukasBlog(m): 1:58am On Jan 12, 2017 |
MrMontella: Guy! I've explained the two ways to see this . Philippians 2:6-7 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,[a] 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. How will Paul believe the literal birth of Christ when he clearly supported the preeminence of Christ Colossians 1:15-20 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by[a] him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. 19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross. Does this look like someone who supports the literal birth ? And again , "literal birth" will make it impossible for God's spirit to incarnate as man . It has to be done through virgin birth . Pay attention to these two quotations 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by MrMontella(m): 2:09am On Jan 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog:nothing there eliminates a natural birth... Pre-existence has no effect on a natural birth.. baseless assumptions... What makes it impossible? If he can become a zygote...what stop him from being both a sperm cell and an egg? 2 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by KingEbukasBlog(m): 2:24am On Jan 12, 2017 |
MrMontella: There are two main ways Christians believe souls are being created by God. 1. Creationism : Souls are created at the moment of conception 2. Traducianism : Souls are created through reproductive process Now if you choose creationism , the bible said that God has stopped creating : this makes it impossible that Christ incarnated since he has pre-existed . If you choose Traducianism it also makes it impossible that Christ incarnated since the soul is begotten through a reproductive process involving the human parents . Christianity can't decide which it is but in both cases , it is impossible for Christ to have incarnated through those ways . I can't give a biological explanation for virgin birth since it defies the laws of nature but God transcends the laws of nature and can interfere to achieve His aim . 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by MrMontella(m): 9:08am On Jan 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog:assumptions...all non-biblical did i say he was created then? 2) didnt jesus create loaves of bread and fish from nothing? What has God's creation of the universe got to do with this? and a zygote is gotten as a product ffrom a process involving human parents..but he was a zygote in the belly of mary... Your rebuttal is weak.. you just said it's impossible for bla bla bla..because it seems to defy nature... But now you're saying its possible to defy the laws of nature? Choose one abeg 3 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by 4kings: 7:18pm On Jan 12, 2017 |
Sorry for late reply oo, I didn't know much about Nazarene unlike Ebionite(who were mostly Gnostic ). So I had to read up to make reasonable comment unlike someone reading this. KingEbukasBlog:Is Mr.President1 Christophany true? Or have you had one before? Appealing to Authority again. So University Scholars determine the veracity of stories now abi... Why not mention those "contributions" they gave, so we can examine them. Have I ever accepted being a Gnostic. I've told you their "belief system" is somewhat psychological and I find it interesting, there's hardly any contradiction(or fairy tales) like mainstream Christianity. Though they make some claims on Christian beliefs, I have never made a definite opinion on this. It seems you can't absorb "Freethinking" and "Skepticism" very well... The Nazarene was a commonly known name given to followers of Christ (Act24:5). The Ebonites were also Nazarene(at least for a while) (just like Catholics are Christians) who were followers of John the Baptist then Christ The split of the Nazarene occurred during the late 2nd Century, obviously due to beliefs which we are discussing. Now, we know the the concept of Virgin birth, never appeared in any of the Epistles, Book of Acts, Revelations, and Mark these books had been(though some modified later) long before the split. It only appeared in the revised edition of Mathew and Luke. ***I don't wanna go further on this, but if you have time to defend the veracity of the Gospels, then... *** I gave you reasons while other options are welcome. O ye of big Faith, Skepticism must be difficult for you. So because I didn't admit Mark was a theist, that makes me an Atheist. SMH Freethinking!!! I have opinions that resonate with some atheists(not atheism) and others that don't. Same for theists. Another Wikipedia page author, typing without references. Eusebius and other early authors already made this distinction, I don't know where the author of that page is getting his/her info from. I asked you a question. Don't you understand basic communication skills 2 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by 4kings: 8:42pm On Jan 12, 2017 |
MrMontella:I DOUBT anyone heard of the idea of "virgin birth" in the first century. |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by 4kings: 8:57pm On Jan 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog:MrMontella Is not an atheist na... |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by KingEbukasBlog(m): 9:53pm On Jan 12, 2017 |
MrMontella: Your just talking nonsense . How are souls created since the two reasons I gave are non biblical ? 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by MrMontella(m): 10:35pm On Jan 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog:you say he was pre-existing...so he need not be created....simple.. |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by MrMontella(m): 10:36pm On Jan 12, 2017 |
4kings:maybe late first century.. 50 years is enough for the myth to build up. |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by KingEbukasBlog(m): 10:50pm On Jan 12, 2017 |
MrMontella: Mister , you claimed that the two ways souls are created in Christianity are non biblical and that I was I assuming , please can you state the biblical one ? I strongly doubt you even read before you rebut , you just type anything : you make weak outlandish claims , honestly So please can you state biblical ways souls are created in Christianity since you say what I posted is non biblical ? |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by 4kings: 10:54pm On Jan 12, 2017 |
MrMontella:Nah, one of the first Gospels written(during the late first century) Mark, never mentioned a "virgin birth". This is a pagan idea from the Egyptian stories and Krishna, permitted by Eusebius and Constantine. Jesus == Krishna |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by MrMontella(m): 10:54pm On Jan 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog:please post your biblical references then you can start expecting what you ask of me.. |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by KingEbukasBlog(m): 10:57pm On Jan 12, 2017 |
4kings: Are you okay ? I gave you two different sects that emerged immediately after Jesus died and they both believed in the virgin birth . So stop talking trash . http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05242c.htm Here is another source stating that some Ebionites accepted the virgin birth I just enjoy shattering the beliefs of dishonest people
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Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by KingEbukasBlog(m): 11:02pm On Jan 12, 2017 |
MrMontella: For the fact you rejected the two known ways souls are created in Christianity , that means you know the biblical means Mr scholar , here was your response MrMontella: So show me the ways Oya be fast ... Ps : I won't respond if you don't post the biblical way . You really have a wont for making idiotic claims |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by KingEbukasBlog(m): 11:06pm On Jan 12, 2017 |
4kings: So the logic is that since Mark never mentioned the virgin birth , therefore it is not true . Right ? The same logic should go : The death and resurrection of Jesus was recorded in the four gospels , therefore the resurrection is true ... right ? 2 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by 4kings: 11:15pm On Jan 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog:I told you that before the name "Christian" was given Nazarene and Ebionite were used. The link you posted said Eusebius said a group believed in the Virgin birth of course there were "Nazarene". Even if this Nazarene are subjected to scrutiny - can't trust Eusebius the Liar. |
Re: Religious Atheism EXPOSED : God Without Religion and Religion Without God by 4kings: 11:15pm On Jan 12, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog:Ya, from a Gnostic point of view. |
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