Cire80:
I don't believe in the Ika 77% to Igbo because it's just an estimation. How exactly is anyone able to arrive at an accurate percentage? Just like every other academic research work, the findings are never accurate. Another researcher will come out with a different result tomorrow and which one will you take as accurate? But going by your analogy, so if we decide to use the 80% benchmark, Ika is a language of it's own? Don't forget Ika has two words for most words and they are mostly Edoid and Igboid. The Edoid words are more ancient and fastly going extinct. But that doesn't mean they're no longer Ika words.

Whether 77% or 80% is not the point as data as these are just estimations. The point made here is that Ika is majorly mutually intelligible to a lot of other Igbo groups compared to Ekpeye for example.

Cire80:
I don't believe in the Ika 77% to Igbo because it's just an estimation. How exactly is anyone able to arrive at an accurate percentage? Just like every other academic research work, the findings are never accurate. Another researcher will come out with a different result tomorrow and which one will you take as accurate? But going by your analogy, so if we decide to use the 80% benchmark, Ika is a language of it's own? Don't forget Ika has two words for most words and they are mostly Edoid and Igboid. The Edoid words are more ancient and fastly going extinct. But that doesn't mean they're no longer Ika words.

If you have been following my comments, you should have noticed that I do not want to take a stand on whether Ika is a dialect or a language. Whatever the speakers believe is okay with me. Here I was only presenting the view of the researcher who most other researchers in the field of Igboid studies show great deference to --- Professor Williamson. Different researchers have different opinions, and use different benchmarks. I am aware of that. My point is merely to demonstrate that Ekpeye has the largest linguistic distance from all the other lects in the continuum. That's all.

By the way given that the lexical similarity between Bini and Yoruba is somewhere between over 40 and over 50%, I don't find 77% between Ika and Owerri to be too large.

By the way given that the lexical similarity between Bini and Yoruba is somewhere between over 40 and over 50%, I don't find 77% between Ika and Owerri to be too large.

This is a mischievous comment.

Which Yoruba dialect are you speaking of.
I'd be surprised if Oyo dialect is anywhere up to 50% mutual intelligibility with Bini.

If you meant Akokoid dialects of Yoruba,and the dialects of places like Irele in Ondo who are contagious with Edo state, then you might be right, because even Oyo people would struggle to understand those Yoruba dialects, but that would mean that you are also been stingy with the truth, comparing Owerri which is not contagious with Ikaland with Ika dialect.
The best suited Igbo dialect to compare Ika with is Enu-ani, if you do this, the mutual intelligibility between Ika and Enu-ani Will be found to be up to 85% or more, if you then compare Enu-ani with Onitsha/Idemili/Ogbaru cluster, you will again get up to 85% mutual intelligibility.

Igbo dialects exist in continuum, the closer dialects are, the greater the mutual intelligibility, and the farther they are, the lesser.

If you want to compare Ika with Owerri, you must first compare Ika with Ndokwa, then Ndokwa with Oguta, and Oguta with Orlu and lastly Orlu with Owerri.
If done that way, the mutual intelligibility as you move along will remain well above 80%, that's why it's called a continuum.
The only exception to this rule will be Ekpeye.

This thread is absolute boredom. *yawns* *hisses* *walks away*

Igboid:

By the way given that the lexical similarity between Bini and Yoruba is somewhere between over 40 and over 50%, I don't find 77% between Ika and Owerri to be too large.

This is a mischievous comment.


.

Always looking for mischief and 'Igbophobia' where there is none. I was repeating statistics from a book by the linguist Professor Chinyere Ohiri-Aniche of the University of Lagos. Go to Lagos and tell her she wrote a mischievous book. Common sense should have told you that when 'Yoruba language' is mentioned without a dialect specified, what is meant is the Oyo-derived Standard Yoruba.

RedboneSmith:


Always looking for mischief and 'Igbophobia' where there is none. I was repeating statistics from a book by the linguist Professor Chinyere Ohiri-Aniche of the University of Lagos. Go to Lagos and tell her she wrote a mischievous book.

Please, can I see the part of the book where she assigned 50% mutual intelligibility between Oyo Yoruba dialect and Bini language.

Igboid:


Please, can I see the part of the book where she assigned 50% mutual intelligibility between Oyo Yoruba dialect and Bini language.

It is a library book. I don't own a copy.

Common sense should have told you that when 'Yoruba language' is mentioned without a dialect specified, what is meant is the Oyo-derived Standard Yoruba.

No, there is no common sense there to grab.
I had once spent 3months plus in Akoko part of Ondo, to know that the average Oyo Yoruba cannot understand the Akoko dialect, because of heavy Edo influence in it and the retention of proto Yoruba words in Akoko dialect.
And yet, the Akoko don't understand Bini at all.
So to come and tell me that there is 50% intelligibility between Oyo Yoruba and Bini, you would need to present a strong evidence.

[quote author=RedboneSmith post=53968838]


It is a library book. I don't own a copy. [/quote

Ok. No problem.

Igboid:
Common sense should have told you that when 'Yoruba language' is mentioned without a dialect specified, what is meant is the Oyo-derived Standard Yoruba.

No, there is no common sense there to grab.
I had once spent 3months plus in Akoko part of Ondo, to know that the average Oyo Yoruba cannot understand the Akoko dialect, because of heavy Edo influence in it and the retention of proto Yoruba words in Akoko dialect.
And yet, the Akoko don't understand Bini at all.
So to come and tell me that there is 50% intelligibility between Oyo Yoruba and Bini, you would need to present a strong evidence.

I said 'about 50% lexical similarity. I never said 50% intelligibility. These are different things.

Lexical similarity deals with words that are cognates; not words that are mutually intelligible. For example, the Igbo word for beans egwa/agwa is lexically similar to the Yoruba word for beans 'ewa'. They are not neccessarily mutually intelligible. A Yoruba man will probably not understand an Igbo man that says 'Give me agwa'. But Agwa and ewa are cognates, and a linguist who is calculating lexical similarity between the two languages to find out their degree of relatedness will count ewa/agwa.

I don't have Aniche's book, but i found this with a quick online search.

https://books.google.com.ng/books?id=NUvnqjutFmoC&pg=PT106&lpg=PT106&dq=aniche+yoruba+cognate&source=bl&ots=8Y3fi-LxQV&sig=Pt4ui8aVeiosa5y0cQZCgKdVOvk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjViZ6U5KTSAhWEGCwKHXqKBHUQ6AEIDTAB#v=onepage&q=aniche yoruba cognate&f=false

Pay particular attention to this table. Std Yoruba and Igbo (Igbo Izugbe, I guess) = 51% lexical similarity. Std Yoruba and Edo = 56% lexical similarity. Igbo and Edo = 50% lexical similarity.

Thus, Yoruba is closer to Edo, than either is to Igbo. Funny enough, Igbo is closer to Akoko than Edo is to Akoko. After going through an Akoko wordlist, i won't say this surprises me.

RedboneSmith:


I said 'about 50% lexical similarity. I never said 50% intelligibility. These are different things.

Lexical similarity deals with words that are cognates; not words that are mutually intelligible. For example, the Igbo word for beans egwa/agwa is lexically similar to the Yoruba word for beans 'ewa'. They are not neccessarily mutually intelligible. A Yoruba man will probably not understand an Igbo man that says 'Give me agwa'. But Agwa and ewa are cognates, and a linguist who is calculating lexical similarity between the two languages to find out their degree of relatedness will count ewa/agwa.

I don't have Aniche's book, but i found this with a quick online search.

https://books.google.com.ng/books?id=NUvnqjutFmoC&pg=PT106&lpg=PT106&dq=aniche+yoruba+cognate&source=bl&ots=8Y3fi-LxQV&sig=Pt4ui8aVeiosa5y0cQZCgKdVOvk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjViZ6U5KTSAhWEGCwKHXqKBHUQ6AEIDTAB#v=onepage&q=aniche yoruba cognate&f=false

Pay particular attention to this table. Std Yoruba and Igbo (Igbo Izugbe, I guess) = 51% lexical similarity. Std Yoruba and Edo = 56% lexical similarity. Igbo and Edo = 50% lexical similarity.

Thus, Yoruba is closer to Edo, than either is to Igbo. Funny enough, Igbo is closer to Akoko than Edo is to Akoko. After going through an Akoko wordlist, i won't say this surprises me.

Fair enough.

It seems that some are confusing themselves over terminology here. Lexical similarity is not the same thing as mutual intelligibility. Mutual intelligibility has a broader scope, of which lexical similarity is only an aspect. Lexical similarity simply involves analyzing a word list for cognates. Analysis of a word list can show a strong relationship between two dialects (I mean this in the strict linguistic sense), yet the two can end up being mutually unintelligible thanks to morphological, phonetic and syntactic factors. Nevertheless, lexical similarity is primarily how linguistic family trees are constructed.

Cire80, whether or not you believe the 77% calculated result is inconsequential. The linguist who performed the work is highly recognized in the field, and since the field is scientific/academic, reproducibility is important. The results arrived at by Williamson would certainly have been thrown out had the academic/scientific community found out that they could not be reproduced. That said, the simple linguistic truth is that Ika is part of the dialect cluster that is "Igbo". In other words, it belongs in the family tree.

By the way, when I say "Ika" belongs in the family tree, I am speaking strictly on a linguistic basis (in case this, for whatever reason, needs to be clarified).

May be I can add one or two things.

Firstly, I we should ask ourselves, the difference between a language and a dialect.
Linguistically, a language is a 'dialect of a language' when they are mutually intelligible. I.e. I 'understand' what is being spoken to me and vice versa without the need for an interpreter. Sometimes, though, the mutual intelligibility might depend on the speakers involved.
Also, some languages form a language continuum. Standard spoken German and standard spoken Dutch although sister languages are markedly different. No mutual intelligibility. But when it comes to dialect, speakers of some Germans dialects at the Dutch border understands the dialects of the country on the other side of the border. But the more the distance between these borders, the less the mutual intelligibility.
So, I ask, do Igbos at these borders understand Edo, Bini or whatever languages spoken there? Would they understand centre Igbo better than say, Bini?

German is a native language in 5 different nations, namely, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein and they all identify ethnically as Germans, though they have different dialects and even cultures.

Let's see some Slavic countries, especially the former Yugoslavic nations. I was surprised when my Croatian colleague was speaking to her Serbian counterpart. So, I asked and they both agreed that they understand each other quite well. In fact, that would be the case if they spoke to someone from Bosnia or Slovenia. Although, they are identified as different nationalities, and their various languages are identified as the official language in their respective countries going by different names but they would be considered just dialects of same languages from a linguistic point of view. They are all ethnic Slavs.

We see that 'Dialect' and 'language' can also be political, geographic or institutional but from a technical and linguistic point of view, a different matter.

Eke40seven:
May be I can add one or two things.

Firstly, I we should ask ourselves, the difference between a language and a dialect.
Linguistically, a language is a 'dialect of a language' when they are mutually intelligible. I.e. I 'understand' what is being spoken to me and vice versa without the need of an interpreter. Sometimes, though, the mutual intelligibility might depend on the speakers involved though.
Also, some languages form some language continuum. Standard spoken German and standard spoken Dutch although sister languages but are markedly different. No mutual intelligibility. But when it comes to dialect, speakers some Germans dialects at the Dutch border understands the dialects of the country on the other side of the border. But the more the distance between these borders, the less the mutual intelligibility.
So, I ask, do Igbos at these borders understand Edo, bini or whatever languages spoken at their borders? Would they understand centre Igbo better than say, Bini?

German is the native language of 5 different nationalities. Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein and they all identify ethnically as Germans, though they have different dialects and even culture.

Let's see some Slavic countries, especially the former Yugoslavic nations. I was surprised when my croatian colleague was speaking to her Serbian counterparts. So, I asked and they both agreed that they understand themselves quite well. In fact, that would be the case if they spoke to someone from Bosnia or Slovenia. Although, they are identified as different nationalities, and their various languages are identified as the official language in their respective countries going by a different name but they would be considered just dialects of same languages from a linguistic point of view. They are all ethnic Slavs.

We see that 'Dialect' and 'language' can also be political, geographic or institutional but in the technical and linguistic point of view a different matter.

you're right.

So, I ask, do Igbos at these borders understand Edo, bini or whatever languages spoken at their borders? Would they understand centre Igbo better than say, Bini?

No, Nada! NULL!
No Ika person understand any Edoid language( be it Bini, Esan, Afemai, Urhobo, Isoko) without first learning such from the scratch. But a sincere Ika will tell you that they understand central Igbo at first hearing, even if not verbatim, but clearly enough to understand what message is being passed across in central Igbo.

Let's see some Slavic countries, especially the former Yugoslavic nations. I was surprised when my croatian colleague was speaking to her Serbian counterparts. So, I asked and they both agreed that they understand themselves quite well. In fact, that would be the case if they spoke to someone from Bosnia or Slovenia. Although, they are identified as different nationalities, and their various languages are identified as the official language in their respective countries going by a different name but they would be considered just dialects of same languages from a linguistic point of view. They are all ethnic Slavs.


True. The same is obtainable amongst the scandinavians in Denmark, Iceland, Finland, Sweden, Norway.

Igboid:

Let's see some Slavic countries, especially the former Yugoslavic nations. I was surprised when my croatian colleague was speaking to her Serbian counterparts. So, I asked and they both agreed that they understand themselves quite well. In fact, that would be the case if they spoke to someone from Bosnia or Slovenia. Although, they are identified as different nationalities, and their various languages are identified as the official language in their respective countries going by a different name but they would be considered just dialects of same languages from a linguistic point of view. They are all ethnic Slavs.


True. The same is obtainable amongst the scandinavians in Denmark, Iceland, Finland, Sweden, Norway.

This shows there's more to classification of languages than just mutual intelligibility.

Cire80:
This shows there's more to classification of languages than just mutual intelligibility.

National borders is something that can be used to classify languages. if Ika was in a country different from where SE Igboland is then no one will be arguing with you whether Ika is Igbo or not. But Ika is in Nigeria and contigous with Igboland.

Afam4eva:

National borders is something that can be used to classify languages. if Ika was in a country different from where SE Igboland is then no one will be arguing with you whether Ika is Igbo or not. But Ika is in Nigeria and contigous with Igboland.

Ika is majorly not part of Igbo in mind and commitment to Igbo things. Language we may share but common fronts we lack.

Abagworo:


Ika is majorly not part of Igbo in mind and commitment to Igbo things. Language we may share but common fronts we lack.

I think everybody can agree with this.

Afam4eva:

National borders is something that can be used to classify languages. if Ika was in a country different from where SE Igboland is then no one will be arguing with you whether Ika is Igbo or not. But Ika is in Nigeria and contigous with Igboland.

Actually, this is not really how it always works. National boundaries and national/political identity do sometimes (often?) play a role in how languages are classified, at least at the official level. But it is not a given.

Afam4eva:

National borders is something that can be used to classify languages. if Ika was in a country different from where SE Igboland is then no one will be arguing with you whether Ika is Igbo or not. But Ika is in Nigeria and contigous with Igboland.

If you agree that national boundary, which is an artificial creation and can be adjusted and readjusted is something that can be used, then tell me why Geopolitical zones can't be?

Abagworo:


Ika is majorly not part of Igbo in mind and commitment to Igbo things. Language we may share but common fronts we lack.

The question for me though, is how did they come about speaking an Igbo dialect, bearing Igbo names, having undeniable Igbo culture?
You know for a self acclaimed Bini people? Who don't even speak Edo?
Who have always had Bini right next door since precolonial times?
How come? You sound familiar with the matter.
Are you buying into the hilarious we are Bini but Igbo speaking tripe?
Care to share?

RedboneSmith:


Actually, this is not really how it always works. National boundaries and national/political identity do sometimes (often?) play a role in how languages are classified, at least at the official level. But it is not a given.

Of course. But national borders can be an accepted excuse.

Afam4eva:

National borders is something that can be used to classify languages. if Ika was in a country different from where SE Igboland is then no one will be arguing with you whether Ika is Igbo or not. But Ika is in Nigeria and contigous with Igboland.

I think, even as that, national boundaries or not, we probably could have been classified as one people under an umbrella name, if not 'Igbo' (which I think is a default name), something may be coined.
I understand that countries that speak the related romance language like, French, Castilians (Spanish), Portuguese, Italian, Romanian, Catalan, Gallican, etc are not classified ethnically to be the same because of the history that defined them. Most of these languages developed in those places as vulgar Latin because of the influence of the Roman empire and later in more modern times were standardised based on regional literatures may be. So, I guess, they all do not identify as one despite the fact that they are under an umbrella language with a degree of mutual intelligibility.
On the other hand, Germans identify as one, and an umbrella that draw them together is the German language. German language is as diverse. In its 'naturally' occurring form (Without standardization) many dialects are almost not mutually intelligible. That not withstanding, they all identify as one. Even as far as South Tyrol, in Italy (They dont claim to be ethnic italians in any way although they are by Nationality) to Pennsylvania Dutchs (German) in the USA. National and regional boundaries abound, in fact to being a minority in many countries, they all identify as German because of language and they know its their ethnicity. They consciously know this is their ancestral language not forced on them by conquest, migration or anything as such.

I think I know what the problem might be in our case though. Sweden, Denmark and Norway identify as SCANDANAVIA. Despite the fact that Denmark and Sweden at different point in time ruled Norway, neither claim Norway as being either of them. I mean, Denmark will never claim Norwegians to be Danish, neither the Swedes. I don't think Norway will accept that label. They are related people, in fact an ethnicity, in fact, at some point in history, there was no difference in their languages. So, they are quite okay being put under the ethnic umbrella called SCANDANAVIA.
Now to being Igbo, it could be that the relationship between the 'igbos', Ikwerres and Ikas are like that of these scandavian countries? It might be logical too because the dialects varies even within the 'Igbos' as it is between the Igbos and these 'other people' (Ika, etc) but so was it in the scandavian countries before standardization.
Might this just be a political strategy, is it resource control? What are the obvious motivations for the separatist tendencies of these group?

These are just my random thoughts.

Cire80:
RedboneSmith doesn't actually want to disagree with you but for one thing. That same thing is the reason I said I don't agree with your post completely and that's being too objective. You know this is a subjective discourse and no need being too objective, especially being a non indigenes. I saw Wulfruna post and I agree completely with her.

I'm from Delta Ika and I agree with you on the Itsekiri-Yoruba relationship but not Igala-Yoruba relationship. I think the Igala-Yoruba example would make sense some century ago but not in this present age when Ika is getting more and more Igbonized day by day especially the language. We've been able to retain our culture and every other things but in the aspect of language we're failing.

Could you explain more what you mean by this? I mean give examples?

bigfrancis21:


Could you explain more what you mean by this? I mean give examples?

I've always admitted that Igbo name and Igbo language has been existing in Ika land for a few centuries which suggests there must have been some unrecorded Igbo migration into Ika land. My problem with you guys is making bogus speculations and going to the extent of fabricating and concocting non existing history. We Ika people know our history. You don't come to our land and tell us we're settlers and should vacate our ancestral land. This is the height of insolence. This attitude is the reason Igbo is hated today by every other groups

Back to your question. The percentage of Igbo names and words in Ika is very minimal. It not up to 20% about 3 centuries ago. There are many factors responsible for the encroachment of Igbo language into Ika and one of them is the Colonial masters and Christianity. The Colonial masters imposed Igbo on us - Even the Edos said Igbo and Yoruba was imposed on them though I don't know how it happened. Our ancestors were thought Igbo and Igbo language was used in churches and courts and many other places. Many people today can't pray in Ika language except in Igbo language. Even I can't say "Our Lord's Prayer" in Ika because I was thought that in Igbo. Churches like Catholic, Baptist, Anglican, even Cherubim and many other churches do all their recitals in Igbo and it's the norm to try to pray in Igbo language. Igbo was like the Latin of Ika churches still existing till date.

Another factor is the population of Igbo speakers. Igbos are existing in 5 States and these 5States States have little amount of non Igbos in them. The Igbo States are mostly populated by Igbo people which shows the Igbos have always had a very high population. Inspite of Igbos populating 5 States, there is no where you go to without seeing a high number of Igbos. You guys are everywhere. Some years back when I was in Abuja, I sometimes wonder if Abuja is turning into Igbo land. All the taxi, molue and even El rufai drivers are Igbo. Wherever you go to, they speak Igbo to you as if it's the new lingua franca of Nigeria. If you reply in English, you see a great shock on their face. Same thing with Lagos. Even outside of Nigeria, Igbos are everywhere in large numbers.

And wherever Igbos are large number, they invade and occupy and make that place their home. No intention of going back home. After that, they start looking for ways to rename the place and Igbonize it. If they see for instance, a place called Ife for instance, they wouldn't call it Ife but they will call it a name like Ifeyinwa, and concoct a story of how a certain Ifeyinwa is the founder of that place. And if Igbos are there in large numbers or if this place is close to Igboland, this name and story will stuck wiping away the original name and history. They also do this for people's name and words. I'm talking from experience and observations.

Another way Igbos influence others is the media including movies, and music (especially gospel music) and other means. I can go on and on.

Cire80:
I've always admitted that Igbo name and Igbo language has been existing in Ika land for a few centuries which suggests there must have been some unrecorded Igbo migration into Ika land. My problem with you guys is making bogus speculations and going to the extent of fabricating and concocting non existing history. We Ika people know our history. You don't come to our land and tell us we're settlers and should vacate our ancestral land. This is the height of insolence. This attitude is the reason Igbo is hated today by every other groups

Back to your question. The percentage of Igbo names and words in Ika is very minimal. It not up to 20% about 3 centuries ago. There are many factors responsible for the encroachment of Igbo language into Ika and one of them is the Colonial masters and Christianity. The Colonial masters imposed Igbo on us - Even the Edos said Igbo and Yoruba was imposed on them though I don't know how it happened. Our ancestors were thought Igbo and Igbo language was used in churches and courts and many other places. Many people today can't pray in Ika language except in Igbo language. Even I can't say "Our Lord's Prayer" in Ika because I was thought that in Igbo. Churches like Catholic, Baptist, Anglican, even Cherubim and many other churches do all their recitals in Igbo and it's the norm to try to pray in Igbo language. Igbo was like the Latin of Ika churches still existing till date.

Another factor is the population of Igbo speakers. Igbos are existing in 5 States and these 5States States have little amount of non Igbos in them. The Igbo States are mostly populated by Igbo people which shows the Igbos have always had a very high population. Inspite of Igbos populating 5 States, there is no where you go to without seeing a high number of Igbos. You guys are everywhere. Some years back when I was in Abuja, I sometimes wonder if Abuja is turning into Igbo land. All the taxi, molue and even El rufai drivers are Igbo. Wherever you go to, they speak Igbo to you as if it's the new lingua franca of Nigeria. If you reply in English, you see a great shock on their face. Same thing with Lagos. Even outside of Nigeria, Igbos are everywhere in large numbers.

And wherever Igbos are large number, they invade and occupy and make that place their home. No intention of going back home. After that, they start looking for ways to rename the place and Igbonize it. If they see for instance, a place called Ife for instance, they wouldn't call it Ife but they will call it a name like Ifeyinwa, and concoct a story of how a certain Ifeyinwa is the founder of that place. And if Igbos are there in large numbers or if this place is close to Igboland, this name and story will stuck wiping away the original name and history. They also do this for people's name and words. I'm talking from experience and observations.

Another way Igbos influence others is the media including movies, and music (especially gospel music) and other means. I can go on and on.

The way you people shamelessly go on lying will leave satan to the second position. Chineke nna onye Onitsha.

Why is the Igbo migration into Ikaland more plausible than Edo/Bini migration into an Igboland (Ika)? Nobody has ever told you that you're settlers. That we say you're Igbo does not mean we will come from Enugu or Anambra to come and take your land. Your land remains your land. I don't know why you guys take this land grabbing shebang among the Igbos too far when there is no record of Igbos ever taking over anybody's land except the ones they bought with their hard earned money.

Your second paragraph is fille dwith lies as you claim that Igbo language presence in Ika language is 20% when i was able to understand atleadt 50% of what was spoken in those Ika videos posted here. And how can you say that Christianity and colonialism brought Igbo into Ika without taking into cognisance the fact that Igbo was only thought in places where some form of Igbo was already been spoken. You say that a lot of Ika people can only pray in Igbo language instead of Ika. How many Igbo people from the south east can pray in their own dialects. Central Igbo was thought to your people the same way it taught to people of the south east. I am from Nkanu in Enugu state and we were not born with central Igbo in our tongues. We had to learn it like everyone else. So, don't make it seem like we all speak central Igbo as our dialect. We freaking have our own dialects just like you have yours.

I have no problem with you guys claiming whatever you like. But i'll always be here to shut up your lies.

Cire80:
I've always admitted that Igbo name and Igbo language has been existing in Ika land for a few centuries which suggests there must have been some unrecorded Igbo migration into Ika land. My problem with you guys is making bogus speculations and going to the extent of fabricating and concocting non existing history. We Ika people know our history. You don't come to our land and tell us we're settlers and should vacate our ancestral land. This is the height of insolence. This attitude is the reason Igbo is hated today by every other groups

Back to your question. The percentage of Igbo names and words in Ika is very minimal. It not up to 20% about 3 centuries ago. There are many factors responsible for the encroachment of Igbo language into Ika and one of them is the Colonial masters and Christianity. The Colonial masters imposed Igbo on us - Even the Edos said Igbo and Yoruba was imposed on them though I don't know how it happened. Our ancestors were thought Igbo and Igbo language was used in churches and courts and many other places. Many people today can't pray in Ika language except in Igbo language. Even I can't say "Our Lord's Prayer" in Ika because I was thought that in Igbo. Churches like Catholic, Baptist, Anglican, even Cherubim and many other churches do all their recitals in Igbo and it's the norm to try to pray in Igbo language. Igbo was like the Latin of Ika churches still existing till date.

Another factor is the population of Igbo speakers. Igbos are existing in 5 States and these 5States States have little amount of non Igbos in them. The Igbo States are mostly populated by Igbo people which shows the Igbos have always had a very high population. Inspite of Igbos populating 5 States, there is no where you go to without seeing a high number of Igbos. You guys are everywhere. Some years back when I was in Abuja, I sometimes wonder if Abuja is turning into Igbo land. All the taxi, molue and even El rufai drivers are Igbo. Wherever you go to, they speak Igbo to you as if it's the new lingua franca of Nigeria. If you reply in English, you see a great shock on their face. Same thing with Lagos. Even outside of Nigeria, Igbos are everywhere in large numbers.

And wherever Igbos are large number, they invade and occupy and make that place their home. No intention of going back home. After that, they start looking for ways to rename the place and Igbonize it. If they see for instance, a place called Ife for instance, they wouldn't call it Ife but they will call it a name like Ifeyinwa, and concoct a story of how a certain Ifeyinwa is the founder of that place. And if Igbos are there in large numbers or if this place is close to Igboland, this name and story will stuck wiping away the original name and history. They also do this for people's name and words. I'm talking from experience and observations.

Another way Igbos influence others is the media including movies, and music (especially gospel music) and other means. I can go on and on.

I won't bash any of that but what are you on about re. the latter? I'm no IPOB but feel free to go on and on. I'm listening.

Afam4eva:

The way you people shamelessly go on lying will leave satan to the second position. Chineke nna onye Onitsha.

Why is the Igbo migration into Ikaland more plausible than Edo/Bini migration into an Igboland (Ika)? Nobody has ever told you that you're settlers. That we say you're Igbo does not mean we will come from Enugu or Anambra to come and take your land. Your land remains your land. I don't know why you guys take this land grabbing shebang among the Igbos too far when there is no record of Igbos ever taking over anybody's land except the ones they bought with their hard earned money.

Your second paragraph is fille dwith lies as you claim that Igbo language presence in Ika language is 20% when i was able to understand atleadt 50% of what was spoken in those Ika videos posted here. And how can you say that Christianity and colonialism brought Igbo into Ika without taking into cognisance the fact that Igbo was only thought in places where some form of Igbo was already been spoken. You say that a lot of Ika people can only pray in Igbo language instead of Ika. How many Igbo people from the south east can pray in their own dialects. Central Igbo was thought to your people the same way it taught to people of the south east. I am from Nkanu in Enugu state and we were not born with central Igbo in our tongues. We had to learn it like everyone else. So, don't make it seem like we all speak central Igbo as our dialect. We freaking have our own dialects just like you have yours.

I have no problem with you guys claiming whatever you like. But i'll always be here to shut up your lies.

Igbos say it loud and clear how they are going to come to Anioma and chase us out taking what rightfully belong to them. I hear that almost everyday online. It's ridiculous, isn't it?

Igbo migration is not more plausible than Edo migration. Everything about Ika is mostly Edo. Igbos win in language but we're still able to retain our Edoid inflections (according to Bigfrancis21), which shows Benin language is the aboriginal language in Ika before some of the factors I mentioned and other factors affected that. Is language the only element to consider in ethnicity ? List any other characteristics and see how Edo give Igbo a race in Ika man among all the factors, language is the one that can be easily influenced but accent and intonation is not easy to lose so we still retained it.

I said the Igbo in Ika a few centuries ago is about 20% and maybe a bit higher before the colonials came and that little similarity is what they laid hold on and started teaching our people Igbo.

You pray in central Igbo because you speak and understand it. People in Ika pray in central Igbo not because they speak it but because they were thought in central Igbo and it almost became a norm until the advent of pentecostal churches. They can't even speak or pray on it well. But mostly on church greeds, recital of Bible passages and other recitals. They were thought in Igbo just like the Muslims were thought in Arabic

Cire80:
I've always admitted that Igbo name and Igbo language has been existing in Ika land for a few centuries which suggests there must have been some unrecorded Igbo migration into Ika land. My problem with you guys is making bogus speculations and going to the extent of fabricating and concocting non existing history. We Ika people know our history. You don't come to our land and tell us we're settlers and should vacate our ancestral land. This is the height of insolence. This attitude is the reason Igbo is hated today by every other groups

Back to your question. The percentage of Igbo names and words in Ika is very minimal. It not up to 20% about 3 centuries ago. There are many factors responsible for the encroachment of Igbo language into Ika and one of them is the Colonial masters and Christianity. The Colonial masters imposed Igbo on us - Even the Edos said Igbo and Yoruba was imposed on them though I don't know how it happened. Our ancestors were thought Igbo and Igbo language was used in churches and courts and many other places. Many people today can't pray in Ika language except in Igbo language. Even I can't say "Our Lord's Prayer" in Ika because I was thought that in Igbo. Churches like Catholic, Baptist, Anglican, even Cherubim and many other churches do all their recitals in Igbo and it's the norm to try to pray in Igbo language. Igbo was like the Latin of Ika churches still existing till date.

Another factor is the population of Igbo speakers. Igbos are existing in 5 States and these 5States States have little amount of non Igbos in them. The Igbo States are mostly populated by Igbo people which shows the Igbos have always had a very high population. Inspite of Igbos populating 5 States, there is no where you go to without seeing a high number of Igbos. You guys are everywhere. Some years back when I was in Abuja, I sometimes wonder if Abuja is turning into Igbo land. All the taxi, molue and even El rufai drivers are Igbo. Wherever you go to, they speak Igbo to you as if it's the new lingua franca of Nigeria. If you reply in English, you see a great shock on their face. Same thing with Lagos. Even outside of Nigeria, Igbos are everywhere in large numbers.

And wherever Igbos are large number, they invade and occupy and make that place their home. No intention of going back home. After that, they start looking for ways to rename the place and Igbonize it. If they see for instance, a place called Ife for instance, they wouldn't call it Ife but they will call it a name like Ifeyinwa, and concoct a story of how a certain Ifeyinwa is the founder of that place. And if Igbos are there in large numbers or if this place is close to Igboland, this name and story will stuck wiping away the original name and history. They also do this for people's name and words. I'm talking from experience and observations.

Another way Igbos influence others is the media including movies, and music (especially gospel music) and other means. I can go on and on.

@bold...this is very wrong because you are taking current circumstances and applying it to what happened centuries ago. The concept of Igbos being travelers to distant lands started only since the coming of the british. Before then, Igbos existed in well-delineated clans of their own with no central authority. Second, there is no proof of you that you can furnish about Igbos going anywhere and renaming the place or wiping off the existing people's town name or language. That's absurd. You are trying to come up with this reason to 'buttress' ika being different but ask yourself twice if that is really true? Do you really believe that? Have you forgotten that there was no 'collective' Igbo people 400 years ago who all called themselves Igbos and were out on a mission to go colonize other lands? The ethnic consciousness of the people called Igbo started with British civilization. 100 years ago an Nnewi man would tell you he is Nnewi not Igbo, an Awka man would tell you the same too, etcetera. Also between the 1400s to 1700s, many Igbo-speaking slaves arriving the new world were shocked to get there and were called 'ebo'. Many of them admitted that they had never heard of such name back home and that their identity was the village or town which they came from. There was no 'collective Igbo' ethnic group or tribe existing several centuries ago out on a mission to colonize Ika land or non-Igbo speaking areas. That of Bonny happened by chance and the natives were also part of the reason Igbo is the mother tongue in the area (after the abolishment of slavery, thousands of Igbo slaves destined for slavery were stuck in the island, as bonny was one of the major ports from which Igbo slaves were sold. The natives felt Ibani language was sacred and made it secret language spoken only within themselves and did not teach outsiders their language but instead learned Igbo to communicate with the teeming population of Igbo slaves and settlers in the town, which led to the gradual displacement of Ibani in the town for Igbo instead. Remember that at this time, there was no ethnic consciousness or allegiance paid to any ethnic group but instead what people knew then were just languages without the concept of belonging ethnically to the people of that language) and Opobo was an outstretch of Bonny.

As for that of the missionaries bringing Igbo-speaking priests to Ika land to 'Igbonize' Ikas, it is not as simple as abc as you think. First of all, the missionaries, who happened to be whites, not Igbo, thank God, brought Igbo-speaking priests to Ika land because despite being outsiders they recognized that the people spoke and understood a speech form or dialect similar to other Igbo speakers. Recognize here that the missionaries did not care about ethnicity nor paid allegiance to any, their mission was to spread their message to everyone the fastest and easiest way that they could. However, they were faced with a daunting task being that the people under the 'Igbo-speaking' umbrella spoke way too many different dialects, many which were often unintelligible to the other and they had to come up with one dialect which they felt everyone should be able to understand. It started with the Anglican missionaries importing an Igbo dialect called 'isuama', spoken by liberated Igbo slaves in sierra leone to Igboland which failed because the 'isuama' spoken in SL happened to be a mixture of several Igbo dialects given that these liberated Igbo slaves came from different areas in Igboland. In fact, the earliest evangelical mission to Igboland in 'Isuama' dialect (resembling southern Igbo dialects, more like owerri-etche dialects etc.) failed at Aboh because the people of Aboh (Ndokwa) could not understand what was being said in 'Isuama' at first attempt (which would not be so today when Igbo speakers are more exposed to other Igbo dialects). Thus the ultimate search for a unifying Igbo dialect ensued and it is a long story from there onwards. My point is, recognize that as of 100 to 180 years ago or more when the missionaries landed in Ika land, they must have identified that the Ika people were Igbo-speaking to begin with, and thus brought Igbo-speaking priests trained in the gospel to spread the word. That's all they cared about - spreading the gospel. Anything to facilitate that, they did. This was happening at a time when Igbos were not as well travelled as today to be exposed to other dialects and speakers of Igbo dialects at opposite extremes of the Igbo language continuum were worst hit at understanding each other. If you claim Ika was only 20% Igbo as of then and probably 80% Bini, why then did the white missionaries not bring Edo-speaking priests to Ika land to preach the gospel to them? Till today I am amazed at how accurate descriptions of southern Nigerian tribes written by foreigners 400 years ago or more are even till today. Pick up any book of yore of southern Nigeria written by foreigners and you'd be amazed at how accurate they were. These foreigners were able to tell accurately which language was which and where speakers of each language started and ended (or their boundaries). So you cannot tell me that these missionaries 'made a mistake' at assuming Ika people were Igbo speakers because their accuracy as of 200 to 500 years back stand outs clearly. These missionaries did not bring Yoruba priests to Igboland did they? Why? Because they clearly knew Igboland was not Yoruba speaking. Thus, they should have brought Bini-speaking priests to Ika land if Ika was 'originally' Bini to begin with or 80% Edoid as you claimed, which history has shown severally to be false.

In every language worldwide due to the natural occurrence of several dialects, there is often a standard form which is spoken and understood by everyone and the dialects spoken locally by their speakers. Standard Igbo being spoken or used in official levels in Ika land or in other areas of Igbo land is no different from standard English spoken in the US (with so many dialects and accents spanning across north to south), or standard English spoken in the UK (with different dialects such as Manchester, Chelsea, etc.) or standard Spanish spoken in Mexico (with so many dialects and even native american languages) etc.

For what is is, Ika is simply an Igbo dialect with Bini loan words and sometimes Bini inflections. Let's not make things more complex than they really are. Do yourself a favour, tear a sheet of paper and write out 10 sentences in Ika dialect and compare it with Bini and Igbo and tell us which it closely resembles. The Ohafia people who live close to the Ibibio-speaking areas sometimes speak Igbo with sort of an Ibibio accent, which is expected or normal due to assimilation and inter-marriage with Ibibio people which may have occurred several centuries ago, yet Ohafia is an Igbo dialect and not Ibibio.

I want to donate my ears to charity because i av heard it all,chimoo

why is it that the Efiks,Ibibio and even the Idomas etc who share common boundaries with ndigbo were not taught to read and pray in Igbo language except ika pipo
Day by day,we hear new and stupid things
I am still wondering if the oyinbos dat took along with them Igbo interpreters to preach the gospel to Ika pipo were foolish,why didnt they preach in Igbo to d Igalas,efiks,ibibio,anangs etc



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