For what is is, Ika is simply an Igbo dialect with Bini loan words and sometimes Bini inflections, the Bini influence thereof being due to massive settlers from Edoid areas in Ika land. This phenomenon of bini families settling in Ika land was noted by a writer in one of his books I do not remember currently. Thus those Ika people with Bini surnames who are anywhere between 10% to 25% of Ikas may be right after all when they say they[the settlers] are from Bini but it is wrong to drag the 'ndi nwe ana' or entire Ika people (those with Igbo surnames) into their Bini ancestry tirade. If these settlers care so much about their bini ancestry, would it not be reasonable for them to return back to Edo state? I am sure that the Oba of Bini would gladly welcome these Edoid returnees back after so many centuries.

Cire80:
Igbo migration is not more plausible than Edo migration. Everything about Ika is mostly Edo. Igbos win in language but we're still able to retain our Edoid inflections (according to Bigfrancis21), which shows Benin language is the aboriginal language in Ika before some of the factors I mentioned and other factors affected that. Is language the only element to consider in ethnicity ? List any other characteristics and see how Edo give Igbo a race in Ika man among all the factors, language is the one that can be easily influenced but accent and intonation is not easy to lose so we still retained it.

I said the Igbo in Ika a few centuries ago is about 20% and maybe a bit higher before the colonials came and that little similarity is what they laid hold on and started teaching our people Igbo.

You pray in central Igbo because you speak and understand it. People in Ika pray in central Igbo not because they speak it but because they were thought in central Igbo and it almost became a norm until the advent of pentecostal churches. They can't even speak or pray on it well. But mostly on church greeds, recital of Bible passages and other recitals. They were thought in Igbo just like the Muslims were thought in Arabic

Ika people may not know how to speak central Igbo because they were not part f what i call "The Igbo experience". Like i said, nobody was born with central Igbo in their tongue except for people who come from places where their dialects are very similar to central Igbo. Go to many villages in the south east and talk to people who have never left their village and tell me how many of them can speak central Igbo. Where i served in Egbema rivers state, i met people who couldn't speak central Igbo because there was no need to for to learn it since they never planned on leaving their village. Your analogy with muslims/arabic is also faulty because arabic was thought to people who never understood Arabic but Igbo was not thought to Ika people because they already understood it, atleast their version of it.

Mind you, aside language, a lot of similarities in culture can be seen between Ika and other Igbo groups. Why does Ifeanyi Okowa always dress like a typical Igbo chief?

Cire80:
Igbo migration is not more plausible than Edo migration. Everything about Ika is mostly Edo. Igbos win in language but we're still able to retain our Edoid inflections (according to Bigfrancis21), which shows Benin language is the aboriginal language in Ika before some of the factors I mentioned and other factors affected that. Is language the only element to consider in ethnicity ? List any other characteristics and see how Edo give Igbo a race in Ika man among all the factors, language is the one that can be easily influenced but accent and intonation is not easy to lose so we still retained it.

I said the Igbo in Ika a few centuries ago is about 20% and maybe a bit higher before the colonials came and that little similarity is what they laid hold on and started teaching our people Igbo.

You pray in central Igbo because you speak and understand it. People in Ika pray in central Igbo not because they speak it but because they were thought in central Igbo and it almost became a norm until the advent of pentecostal churches. They can't even speak or pray on it well. But mostly on church greeds, recital of Bible passages and other recitals. They were thought in Igbo just like the Muslims were thought in Arabic

You just missed the part where he said we all speak our respective dialects. In Igboland, nobody speaks 'central igbo' as native dialect. Now let me ask you, what is central Igbo? That adopted and standardized one taught in schools and read in Igbo textbooks right? Now, next time when you go to Abuja or places outside Igboland where Igbo is spoken, please pay more attention to the dialect the speaker speaks and tell me if they speak that which you read in Igbo textbooks or if they are speaking certain dialects relating to where they come from. They most times speak the dialect of the village or area where they come from. Someone from Anambra would be speaking 'Anambra Igbo', same for someone from Owerri or Ngwa etc. Central Igbo is mainly used in writing, news broadcasting or for exam purposes. Asides that, nobody, I mean nobody, speaks it as native language. Just like Ikas, we were all taught central Igbo too in schools and we heard it in churches. My late mother was from Enugu state but yet used to pray in central Igbo because that is how she was taught.

I never implied anywhere that Bini was the original language in Ika land. You came up with that assertion. I said and am saying again that Ika land was originally populated by an Igbo aboriginal group which assimilated lots of Bini settlers in the area who had their linguistic influence on the inflection of Ika words in their attempt to acculturate and learn Ika. However, the language structure still remains Igbo not Bini.

Also, if you claim Ika was 20% Igbo and 80% Bini or Edoid, then why didn't the missionaries bring Edoid-speaking priests to Ika land?

Where is your proof for Ika being 20% Igbo and 80% Bini about 150 years ago?

Like Afam4eva rightly asked you, why do you believe the 'Igbo migration in Ikaland' more than the Bini migration into Ika land?

Why is the ratio of Ikas with Bini surnames (the settlers) less than Ikas with Igbo surnames (aborigines)? Are you one of those with Bini-sounding surnames?

Cire80:
Igbos say it loud and clear how they are going to come to Anioma and chase us out taking what rightfully belong to them. I hear that almost everyday online. It's ridiculous, isn't it?

Igbo migration is not more plausible than Edo migration. Everything about Ika is mostly Edo. Igbos win in language but we're still able to retain our Edoid inflections (according to Bigfrancis21), which shows Benin language is the aboriginal language in Ika before some of the factors I mentioned and other factors affected that. Is language the only element to consider in ethnicity ? List any other characteristics and see how Edo give Igbo a race in Ika man among all the factors, language is the one that can be easily influenced but accent and intonation is not easy to lose so we still retained it.

I said the Igbo in Ika a few centuries ago is about 20% and maybe a bit higher before the colonials came and that little similarity is what they laid hold on and started teaching our people Igbo.

You pray in central Igbo because you speak and understand it. People in Ika pray in central Igbo not because they speak it but because they were thought in central Igbo and it almost became a norm until the advent of pentecostal churches. They can't even speak or pray on it well. But mostly on church greeds, recital of Bible passages and other recitals. They were thought in Igbo just like the Muslims were thought in Arabic

The question is despite the proximity of Ika to Beninland why did the Colonial masters believe Ika language was Igbo and not Bini? You see there is no way anyone including even Bini, Esan, Itsekiri or Urhobo man will hear someone speaking Ika and wouldn't immediately identify the language as Igbo. Even an Igbo man will ask you which part of Igbo speaks that way instead of which part of Bini speaks that way.

I was with my Bini close friends just few weeks ago and they said Oliseh is an Igbo man trying to claim Bini and that your Ika people are Igbos as well. There is nothing like Oliseh in Bini but a common Igbo name that cuts across the Niger. Bini people said it not me.

This thread was opened by an angry Esan guy and will give you an insight on the fact that other Benin originated people view Ika as Igbos.

www.nairaland.com/3650946/esan-people-not-igbo

Monkeydeychop:


There are people called aniomas who are Igbo settler tribes in edo state. They've adopted edo names and are trying to annex themselves into edo history. They are not descendants of the Benin empire or indigenous to the state.

Funny enough, the Binis/Esans do not even regard these Bini-attaches as Bini. They all see you as 'ovbigbo'. Even the Esans, Etsakos etc. and other edoid groups more related to Bini in terms of language than Ika/Ukwuani distance themselves from Bini people and do not want to be identified as Bini, yet you have clearly Igbo speakers who are desperately attaching themselves to Bini. These Igbo-speaking Bini-attaches are re-inventing the wheel and taking the definition of ethnicity to a whole different level. I am Bini but Igbo-speaking is the new norm. 'I am french but spanish-speaking' is the upcoming sequel.

bigfrancis21:
For what is is, Ika is simply an Igbo dialect with Bini loan words and sometimes Bini inflections, the Bini influence thereof being due to massive settlers from Edoid areas in Ika land. This phenomenon of bini families settling in Ika land was noted by a writer in one of his books I do not remember currently. Thus those Ika people with Bini surnames who are anywhere between 10% to 25% of Ikas may be right after all when they say they[the settlers] are from Bini but it is wrong to drag the 'ndi nwe ana' or entire Ika people (those with Igbo surnames) into their Bini ancestry tirade. If these settlers care so much about their bini ancestry, would it not be reasonable for them to return back to Edo state? I am sure that the Oba of Bini would gladly welcome these Edoid returnees back after so many centuries.

10% to 25%.

You just randomly picked those percentages, didn't you?

RedboneSmith:


10% to 25%.

You just randomly picked those percentages, didn't you?

In terms of surnames which strongly identifies where one descends from. What do you think it should be?

.

bigfrancis21:


In terms of surnames which strongly identifies where one descends from. What do you think it should be?

Until someone actually takes the time to go there and count, conjuring percentages will be ill-advised.

If my experience with Ika people is anything to go by, that your 10 - 20% figure is too low. Igbo surnames are probably predominant in the Eastern flank of Ikaland, but as you move west the Edo surnames become predominant. I have also noticed that when I ask Ika people the names their grandfathers and great grandfathers bore, I almost always get Edo names as answers. There is some truth in the assertion that there has been a shift towards more Igbo sounding names in the 20th century. All the Chi and Chukwu names in Ika area are purely 20th century phenomena, for example.

RedboneSmith:


Until someone actually takes the time to go there and count, conjuring percentages will be ill-advised.

If my experience with Ika people is anything to go by, that your 10 - 20% figure is too low. Igbo surnames are probably predominant in the Eastern flank of Ikaland, but as you move west the Edo surnames become predominant. I have also noticed that when I ask Ika people the names their grandfathers and great grandfathers bore, I almost always get Edo names as answers. There is some truth in the assertion that there has been a shift towards more Igbo sounding names in the 20th century. All the Chi and Chukwu names in Ika area are purely 20th century phenomena, for example.

Redbonesmith

I may be wrong but the surnames of most members of Ika groups on facebook are overwhelmingly Igbo. I understand that not all of these members may actually be from Ika however. Here is one of such groups:

https://www./Nmuagbor/members/

Any Ika person who clearly answers Irabor, Osazuwa or Okunbor etc. as surname is clearly a Bini settler in Ika (Igbo) land and you do not belong in Igboland. They are the ones that make the loudest noise about their bini ancestry. You clearly belong to Edo state and not Ika/Anioma. Please return to your respective villages in Edo state.

I suppose that the Ika people you've asked are mostly from the western flank of Ika land - the area closer to the Edoid area that most likely received many Bini settlers?

bigfrancis21:
.

Many people on such pages are not from the group the pages were created for. I easily spotted Easterners and people from other parts of Anioma there.

RedboneSmith:


Many people on such pages are not from the group the pages were created for. I easily spotted Easterners and people from other parts of Anioma there.

I thought as much. Where can we have a group of only Ika members to compare ratios?

bigfrancis21:



Any Ika person who clearly answers Irabor, Osazuwa or Okunbor etc. as surname is clearly a Bini settler in Ika (Igbo) land and you do not belong in Igboland. They are the ones that make the loudest noise about their bini ancestry. You clearly belong to Edo state and not Ika/Anioma. Please return to your respective villages in Edo state.

I honestly don't know how you guys can type things like this with a straight face.


And why do you use your mod power to get into a quoted comment and make alterations. That's messed up and so not right, dude.

RedboneSmith:


I honestly don't know how you guys can type things like this with a straight face.


And why do you use your mod power to get into a quoted comment and make alterations. That's messed up and so not right, dude.

Nope. I simply cut out my comment in a standalone post and posted it in reply to one of your comments. It's is something that every basic NL member has the capability of doing.

Bini/Igbo Factors- Origins And Migration of Ika People

Ika lacks archeological works, and she is grossly deficient of ancient written records, myths, legends or fantasized oral traditions towards her history, culture and origin. For example, no part of Ika has been studied by a professional historian or anthropologist neither has any part of Ika villages been visited by one. The dearth of literature in Ika history can also be said to have stemmed up from lack of initiative of the early Ika people who embraced Western Education; who never picked up a pen and never made the feeble effort to attempt it. Otherwise, it is known that Ika had a crop of literate men since the arrival of the British in Agbor.

Aside from the Government School that was established at Agbor in 1906, most Ika people were products of the Mission Schools that started in some Ika towns ever before the British formed their school. Such kind of materials on folklores, folktales or treatises, etc. on Ika written by this generation of Ika would have been worthwhile contributions to the body of knowledge of Ika history. For instance, an Igbo ex-slave, Olanda Equiano’s autobiography (1789) answered some questions about Igbo people, their origin, government, politics, their economy, social life and British.

On the side of the British, their Officials did not help matters with their perfunctory Intelligence Reports on Ika clans. The British had every reason to have written extensively on Ika judging from the events of Ekumeku Movement (1880-1910) and the incident of the gruesome murder of Captain Crew Reade in 1906 at Owanta. But none of their writings, if ever, was available to this writer. In the absence of such detailed records, much of the account in the this chapter is based on the oral traditions of the Ika people, otherwise referred to as fluid history of Ika clans, or recalls of the various schools of thought on the origins of Ika people.

According to Eguavon, S.I. Eka (Ika) means deserters from Benin because of the bloody rule of Oba Ewuare about 1440 AD. It is said that the Binis who seized the opportunity of Oba Ewuare’s absence to flee from Benin were given this name Eka by Oba Ewuare, who on his return from one of his military campaigns, found that many of this subjects had deserted him. It was then he remarked sagaciously: So ghai Eka no. “Leave them, they are deserters”.

During this period for example, Oba Ewuare lost his only two sons, Ezuware and Ekpoboyuuwa through poisoning on the same day. To show hi grief for the death of these princes, he declared three years of mourning for them. During these years of mourning, he ordered that no one was to marry, and those who were married should not have sexual intercourse within the period. He also ordered that there should be no bathing and shaving of hair during the period. Those who were of marriageable age then fled Benin Kingdom in order no to prohibited from raising up families.

Generally, there were political and social disturbances and unrest during the period. The rulers were powerful and overbearing, and there was no known punishment that they could not mete out to offending subjects. Some were forcely charged and dealt with. Life and property were insecure in the face of political uncertainties that existed in Benin Empire. Since there was social disorder, the conditions became unbearable in Benin Empire, which resulted in migration spree of adventurous subjects.

However, on settlements in the areas now known as Ika, some of the Ika clans claim to have been formed before the movement of people from Benin and Ishan Divisions to Ika Land, and these are Agbor, Owa and Umunede clans. It may be that deserters or Ika not only swelled the population of the already existing settlements but also formed new settlements. Ika appears to have grown as a result of the influx of immigrants from Benin, Ishan and Aniocha areas of the defunct Bendel State. Ika people came to Ika Land in different waves of migration, led by different persons from different directions at different times for different reasons.

cc Cire80

http://aniomawatch..com/2013/08/biniigbo-factors-origins-and-migration.html

Cire80:
I've always admitted that Igbo name and Igbo language has been existing in Ika land for a few centuries which suggests there must have been some unrecorded Igbo migration into Ika land. My problem with you guys is making bogus speculations and going to the extent of fabricating and concocting non existing history. We Ika people know our history. You don't come to our land and tell us we're settlers and should vacate our ancestral land. This is the height of insolence. This attitude is the reason Igbo is hated today by every other groups

Back to your question. The percentage of Igbo names and words in Ika is very minimal. It not up to 20% about 3 centuries ago. There are many factors responsible for the encroachment of Igbo language into Ika and one of them is the Colonial masters and Christianity. The Colonial masters imposed Igbo on us - Even the Edos said Igbo and Yoruba was imposed on them though I don't know how it happened. Our ancestors were thought Igbo and Igbo language was used in churches and courts and many other places. Many people today can't pray in Ika language except in Igbo language. Even I can't say "Our Lord's Prayer" in Ika because I was thought that in Igbo. Churches like Catholic, Baptist, Anglican, even Cherubim and many other churches do all their recitals in Igbo and it's the norm to try to pray in Igbo language. Igbo was like the Latin of Ika churches still existing till date.

Another factor is the population of Igbo speakers. Igbos are existing in 5 States and these 5States States have little amount of non Igbos in them. The Igbo States are mostly populated by Igbo people which shows the Igbos have always had a very high population. Inspite of Igbos populating 5 States, there is no where you go to without seeing a high number of Igbos. You guys are everywhere. Some years back when I was in Abuja, I sometimes wonder if Abuja is turning into Igbo land. All the taxi, molue and even El rufai drivers are Igbo. Wherever you go to, they speak Igbo to you as if it's the new lingua franca of Nigeria. If you reply in English, you see a great shock on their face. Same thing with Lagos. Even outside of Nigeria, Igbos are everywhere in large numbers.

And wherever Igbos are large number, they invade and occupy and make that place their home. No intention of going back home. After that, they start looking for ways to rename the place and Igbonize it. If they see for instance, a place called Ife for instance, they wouldn't call it Ife but they will call it a name like Ifeyinwa, and concoct a story of how a certain Ifeyinwa is the founder of that place. And if Igbos are there in large numbers or if this place is close to Igboland, this name and story will stuck wiping away the original name and history. They also do this for people's name and words. I'm talking from experience and observations.

Another way Igbos influence others is the media including movies, and music (especially gospel music) and other means. I can go on and on.

I thought I was discussing with sensible and right thinking people
Dunno where to start.
This is what you call bombastic silliness...scratch that...this tripe above is legendary silliness.
Someone sat down and typed this out and presented it with confidence as "facts"
Smh.

RedboneSmith:


I honestly don't know how you guys can type things like this with a straight face.


And why do you use your mod power to get into a quoted comment and make alterations. That's messed up and so not right, dude.

In ur opinion his assertion makes less sense to you than that of the bombastic revisionist he was responding to right?

PabloAfricanus:


In ur opinion his assertion makes less sense to you than that of the bombastic revisionist he was responding to right?

There are finer details in which Cire80 and I disagree, but in general, yes.

PabloAfricanus:


In ur opinion his assertion makes less sense to you than that of the bombastic revisionist he was responding to right?

Lol. I have no problem with Bini settlers in Ika (Igbo) land but dragging the entire Ika people including the Igbo aborigines into their Benin tirade is distorting Igbo history and traditions. The story about migration from Benin has been circled around a million times that it is widely accepted as truth nowadays without any question if any Igbo-speaking group not known to claim this suddenly claims this. It is starting to creep into SE also - Aguleri, Ohafia, Enugwu-Ezike etc. The saying that goes that when a lie is passed around several times it becomes truth. I am not saying that Benin pattern of migration is a lie but it is a statement which has been passed around so many times that now sounds like general truth that does not need to be questioned.

In all honesty, any Ika person with Bini-sounding surnames such as Okunbor, Irabor, Obaigbena etc. is clearly Edo even if they have Igbo-sounding first names and if they are desperately interested in reclaiming their bini ancestry they should return to Edo state and put an end to the identity crisis once and for all. We africans love to live in stories upon stories. A DNA test performed on males in Ika land will identify those with Bini ancestors and those with Igbo ancestors. Those with Bini ancestors are free to return to Edo state, marry Edoid women, give their kids first and last Edoid names and raise their kids in Edoid languages and put an end to their revolving identity crisis. Problem solved.

I recently told one guy I know from Agbor with Bini last name who is so crazy about his Benin ancestry and dragging the entire Ika people about returning to Edo state and it really struck a chord in him. I asked him if he was willing to submit to a DNA test to confirm his Bini ancestry and if the result came out positive if he would be willing to relocate to Edo state, he suddenly became evasive. It was sort of a realization phase for him as he realized that this was indeed a possibility that if he was too crazy about his bini ancestry, then returning back to Edo state is an option for him. A lot of Jews were scattered all over the world for centuries who did not speak Hebrew but instead spoke the native languages of their foreign settlements such as french, Spanish, Portuguese etc. did return to Israel after 1948 in a process called Aaliyah and today are mostly Hebrew-speaking. So yes, the aaliyah of Ikas of Edoid ancestry back to Edo state is possible.

RedboneSmith:


There are finer details in which Cire80 and I disagree, but in general, yes.

You see the problem of shameless history revisionists is analogous to that of the actor on stage.
Everyone can see your back, your moves, the entire stage...except the actor who is squarely focused on acting out his script.
If the actor goes out of line or misinterprets his character just a bit, there are those who can tell...
The audience generally have a more holistic view of the whole play than the individual actors...

When you go around inventing tall tales and fabricating nonexistent history...
maybe due to lies or fallacies you have been fed from home(happens to everyone)...
You do not generally perceive anything in your narrative as being off...cos you have been consciously desensitized to it.
That there are those with stronger historical perspectives and facts than yours almost always escapes revisionists...
particularly those whose mandate came from their traditional narratives...
It is a veritable blindspot well known to anyone who has confronted historical revisionists...
usually it takes a whole lot of fact digging and public exposure of one's historical ignorance to wake up these set of people
to the fact that there are indeed other narratives that are more factual and accurate than the ones they've been fed with.


That you agree in general with the load of bombastic and wholesale revision of history by Cire80 leaves little to discuss...
Cos you apparently are not aware of how ridiculously funny his narrative sounds...
Lemme paraphrase it for you...that history or narrative espoused by him and believed by you in general...never happened.
Nothing like that ever took place, neither were there any people called "Igbos" who partook of such a history with another set of people
called "Ikas". Never happened, precolonial, during the colonial times, post colonial times.
Anyone who has studied the matter not just from a neutral perspective, but from even a shallow knowledge of the history of both peoples across the Niger can tell by reading that load of BS that such a thing never took place.
Except ofcourse in the parallel universe of revisionists...
...where a grown man cannot recite the Lord's prayer in his own supposed language in which he claims fluency and claims to be an authority...but can recite the same in a foreign language imposed on his people.
One wonders if the Lord's prayer is not available in English for translation?
...where the Annangs, Ibibios, Efiks and Ijaws who are closer to the Igbos escaped buying Igbo language, words, dialects from the Igbos when they came to trade with them...despite very very heavy intermarriage with the Igbos...
but another set of people who claim to be Edos and have never had anything to do with Igbos suddenly lost their language and culture in less than 100 years...after conducting trans-Atlantic and trans-Pacific trading with the Igbos.
I could go on.
You lots should go get some sense and quit making fools of yourselves.

PabloAfricanus:


You see the problem of shameless history revisionists is analogous to that of the actor on stage.
Everyone can see your back, your moves, the entire stage...except the actor who is squarely focused on acting out his script.
If the actor goes out of line or misinterprets his character just a bit, there are those who can tell...
The audience generally have a more holistic view of the whole play than the individual actors...

When you go around inventing tall tales and fabricating nonexistent history...
maybe due to lies or fallacies you have been fed from home(happens to everyone)...
You do not generally perceive anything in your narrative as being off...cos you have been consciously desensitized to it.
That there are those with stronger historical perspectives and facts than yours almost always escapes revisionists...
particularly those whose mandate came from their traditional narratives...
It is a veritable blindspot well known to anyone who has confronted historical revisionists...
usually it takes a whole lot of fact digging and public exposure of one's historical ignorance to wake up these set of people
to the fact that there are indeed other narratives that are more factual and accurate than the ones they've been fed with.


That you agree in general with the load of bombastic and wholesale revision of history by Cire80 leaves little to discuss...
Cos you apparently are not aware of how ridiculously funny his narrative sounds...
Lemme paraphrase it for you...that history or narrative espoused by him and believed by you in general...never happened.
Nothing like that ever took place, neither were there any people called "Igbos" who partook of such a history with another set of people
called "Ikas". Never happened, precolonial, during the colonial times, post colonial times.
Anyone who has studied the matter not just from a neutral perspective, but from even a shallow knowledge of the history of both peoples across the Niger can tell by reading that load of BS that such a thing never took place.
Except ofcourse in the parallel universe of revisionists...
...where a grown man cannot recite the Lord's prayer in his own supposed language in which he claims fluency and claims to be an authority...but can recite the same in a foreign language imposed on his people.
One wonders if the Lord's prayer is not available in English for translation?
...where the Annangs, Ibibios, Efiks and Ijaws who are closer to the Igbos escaped buying Igbo language, words, dialects from the Igbos when they came to trade with them...despite very very heavy intermarriage with the Igbos...
but another set of people who claim to be Edos and have never had anything to do with Igbos suddenly lost their language and culture in less than 100 years...after conducting trans-Atlantic and trans-Pacific trading with the Igbos.
I could go on.
You lots should go get some sense and quit making fools of yourselves.

What is this incoherence about?

RedboneSmith:


What is this incoherence about?

If you can't make sense of it...
then it's clearly not for you...just move on.

PabloAfricanus:


You see the problem of shameless history revisionists is analogous to that of the actor on stage.
Everyone can see your back, your moves, the entire stage...except the actor who is squarely focused on acting out his script.
If the actor goes out of line or misinterprets his character just a bit, there are those who can tell...
The audience generally have a more holistic view of the whole play than the individual actors...

When you go around inventing tall tales and fabricating nonexistent history...
maybe due to lies or fallacies you have been fed from home(happens to everyone)...
You do not generally perceive anything in your narrative as being off...cos you have been consciously desensitized to it.
That there are those with stronger historical perspectives and facts than yours almost always escapes revisionists...
particularly those whose mandate came from their traditional narratives...
It is a veritable blindspot well known to anyone who has confronted historical revisionists...
usually it takes a whole lot of fact digging and public exposure of one's historical ignorance to wake up these set of people
to the fact that there are indeed other narratives that are more factual and accurate than the ones they've been fed with.


That you agree in general with the load of bombastic and wholesale revision of history by Cire80 leaves little to discuss...
Cos you apparently are not aware of how ridiculously funny his narrative sounds...
Lemme paraphrase it for you...that history or narrative espoused by him and believed by you in general...never happened.
Nothing like that ever took place, neither were there any people called "Igbos" who partook of such a history with another set of people
called "Ikas". Never happened, precolonial, during the colonial times, post colonial times.
Anyone who has studied the matter not just from a neutral perspective, but from even a shallow knowledge of the history of both peoples across the Niger can tell by reading that load of BS that such a thing never took place.
Except ofcourse in the parallel universe of revisionists...
...where a grown man cannot recite the Lord's prayer in his own supposed language in which he claims fluency and claims to be an authority...but can recite the same in a foreign language imposed on his people.
One wonders if the Lord's prayer is not available in English for translation?
...where the Annangs, Ibibios, Efiks and Ijaws who are closer to the Igbos escaped buying Igbo language, words, dialects from the Igbos when they came to trade with them...despite very very heavy intermarriage with the Igbos...
but another set of people who claim to be Edos and have never had anything to do with Igbos suddenly lost their language and culture in less than 100 years...after conducting trans-Atlantic and trans-Pacific trading with the Igbos.
I could go on.
You lots should go get some sense and quit making fools of yourselves.

Among everything you said, let me respond to one. Maybe I modify later if I have the time. Do you know the difference between recite and translate ? Yes, I can translate any English word to Ika but that is not the same as recitation.

Cire80:
Among everything you said, let me respond to one. Maybe I modify later if I have the time. Do you know the difference between recite and translate ? Yes, I can translate any English word to Ika but that is not the same as recitation.

Dude do yourself a favour...dont bother...its pointless.
Difference between recite and translate?
For a guy who was busy schooling others on the finer points of Ika pronounciation, dialects, inflections and what not?
Only for you boldly announce you cannot recite the Lord's prayer in the same "language" you claim to be an expert in?
GTFOH
A bigger favour you could do yourself, cos u sorely need it, is to go back home and ask deep questions and demand real answers.
Also travel around and gain some knowledge before discussing topics you apparently are not familiar with.
My 2 cents.

PabloAfricanus:


Dude do yourself a favour...dont bother...its pointless.
Difference between recite and translate?
For a guy who was busy schooling others on the finer points of Ika pronounciation, dialects, inflections and what not?
Only for you boldly announce you cannot recite the Lord's prayer in the same "language" you claim to be an expert in?
GTFOH
A bigger favour you could do yourself, cos u sorely need it, is to go back home and ask deep questions and demand real answers.
Also travel around and gain some knowledge before discussing topics you apparently are not familiar with.
My 2 cents.

This confirms you do not know the difference between the two words. To translate, I have to pick it word by word, think it in a sentence and all these within few seconds. But to recite is like singing a song. The wordings and the the lyrics is already stored in your brain. It doesn't even matter if you know their meanings. You guys always pick up wrong points. Is this the handiwork of prejudice? I checked my mention lo and behold, everybody is quoting me out of context, but I don't have the time to respond to them.

Haha! The Igbonized Igala man receiving the " hairdryer" treatment.

The irrationality of "my ancestors were Edo/igala people who were Igbonized by Igbos who supposedly have inferior culture " claim is mind boggling.

RedboneSmith:


What is this incoherence about?

I have tried to read and reread but still can't get the head or the tail of what he wrote. That was a real emotional ranting. Doh

Cire80:
I have tried to read and reread but still can't get the head or the tail of what he wrote. That was a real emotional ranting. Doh

Hahahahaha
No you won't, cos if u did, you would never written such bombastic tripe.
Move on, I get it now.
It's pointless having a discussion on this topic with people of such mindsets.
Difference between recitation and what again?
Laughable nonsense

Cire80:
I've always admitted that Igbo name and Igbo language has been existing in Ika land for a few centuries which suggests there must have been some unrecorded Igbo migration into Ika land. My problem with you guys is making bogus speculations and going to the extent of fabricating and concocting non existing history. We Ika people know our history. You don't come to our land and tell us we're settlers and should vacate our ancestral land. This is the height of insolence. This attitude is the reason Igbo is hated today by every other groups

Back to your question. The percentage of Igbo names and words in Ika is very minimal. It not up to 20% about 3 centuries ago. There are many factors responsible for the encroachment of Igbo language into Ika and one of them is the Colonial masters and Christianity. The Colonial masters imposed Igbo on us - Even the Edos said Igbo and Yoruba was imposed on them though I don't know how it happened. Our ancestors were thought Igbo and Igbo language was used in churches and courts and many other places. Many people today can't pray in Ika language except in Igbo language. Even I can't say "Our Lord's Prayer" in Ika because I was thought that in Igbo. Churches like Catholic, Baptist, Anglican, even Cherubim and many other churches do all their recitals in Igbo and it's the norm to try to pray in Igbo language. Igbo was like the Latin of Ika churches still existing till date.

Another factor is the population of Igbo speakers. Igbos are existing in 5 States and these 5States States have little amount of non Igbos in them. The Igbo States are mostly populated by Igbo people which shows the Igbos have always had a very high population. Inspite of Igbos populating 5 States, there is no where you go to without seeing a high number of Igbos. You guys are everywhere. Some years back when I was in Abuja, I sometimes wonder if Abuja is turning into Igbo land. All the taxi, molue and even El rufai drivers are Igbo. Wherever you go to, they speak Igbo to you as if it's the new lingua franca of Nigeria. If you reply in English, you see a great shock on their face. Same thing with Lagos. Even outside of Nigeria, Igbos are everywhere in large numbers.

And wherever Igbos are large number, they invade and occupy and make that place their home. No intention of going back home. After that, they start looking for ways to rename the place and Igbonize it. If they see for instance, a place called Ife for instance, they wouldn't call it Ife but they will call it a name like Ifeyinwa, and concoct a story of how a certain Ifeyinwa is the founder of that place. And if Igbos are there in large numbers or if this place is close to Igboland, this name and story will stuck wiping away the original name and history. They also do this for people's name and words. I'm talking from experience and observations.

Another way Igbos influence others is the media including movies, and music (especially gospel music) and other means. I can go on and on.

@ Monkeydeychop, here is an 'interesting' submission from your 'igbonized' Edo brother who is trying to get back to his Bini roots.
What's your submission on these claims?

This cire's class r so lame and very laughable and he knows it, I doubt if he is ika... Believe me!, many other tribes envy igbos and fear how formidable they can be if unified... Even Britain knows dis... Wonder less y Pple assume what they r not just for the sole purpose of ensuring dt igbos perpetually dnt speak with one voice

Abagworo:
This thread was opened by an angry Esan guy and will give you an insight on the fact that other Benin originated people view Ika as Igbos.

www.nairaland.com/3650946/esan-people-not-igbo

The guy is not Esan but he might be from Edo,how times have you see Esan fighting anyone on nairaland?