Cire80:
I'm sure they know this but choose to feign ignorance. Influx of people in large numbers to anywhere whether for business or farming can greatly influence the original inhabitants of that place. Especially when it's from a major and larger ethnic group like Igbo.

Did you even read the post RedboneSmith made before responding to it? You've asserted that he is feigning ignorance, only to end up essentially repeating his words.

ChinenyeN:


Did you even read the post RedboneSmith made before responding to it? You've asserted that he is feigning ignorance, only to end up essentially repeating his words.

I guess you didn't understand my comment. I said "they" and the "theys" know themselves

Cire80:
I guess you didn't understand my comment. I said "they" and the "theys" know themselves

Nawa for myself. That is certainly my mistake. Here I was accusing you of not reading well, only to end up being guilty myself in turn.

ChinenyeN:


Nawa for myself. That is certainly my mistake. Here I was accusing you of not reading well, only to end up being guilty myself in turn.

It happens bro. nobody is above mistakes.

ChinenyeN:


Nawa for myself. That is certainly my mistake. Here I was accusing you of not reading well, only to end up being guilty myself in turn.

Hahahaha. Na mistake. It is allowed.

RedboneSmith:


It is oversimplification to assume that language changing is always due to invasion and conquest. Rome also conquered many other people who did not adopt a Latin language, e.g., Greece. The Arabs also conquered many people who did not adopt Arabic, eg., Northern India. If invasion and conquest is the most important factor, all these places should have switched their languages. Heck, Africans today should all be speaking solely English, French, Spanish and Portuguese.

Sometimes, in fact, in many cases, peaceful influx of people can drastically alter or even change the spoken language of a settlement more than armies and conquests can, especially if the in-comers have a large population.

Greek was already dying as a spoken language in Marseilles by the time Caesar got there. Granted, Romanization speeded up the process, but it would have happened anyway because Marseilles is just one colony in a sea of Gallic speakers. It was inevitable that they would get swallowed up.

Also you are wrong about Alexandria and Arabs. The Greek spoken by the founders of Alexandria had already been replaced by Coptic (the language spoken in other parts of Egypt at the time) before the Arab invasions. I don't need to tell you that this replacement had nothing to do with war, and everything to do with the strength of numbers.

The Igala colonies of the Lower Niger faced the same predicament viz-aviz the Igbo. Igboland was/is one of the most densely population areas in all of Africa, and as a result people were always moving out of its congested areas to people neighbouring sparsely populated areas. Some Igbo areas today are known to have formerly belonged to other ethnic groups, e.g, parts of Abakiliki region, Arochukwu, even Afikpo and parts of Ngwa. It shouldn't be hard to understand how Asaba, Illah and Oko among others could have started out as small Igala outposts and then be swamped by influx of Igbo-speakers from the East.

Look at what Ika-speakers had done to the Esan language of Ekpon. It did not involve war and conquest. Look at what Igbo people who came in as slaves did to the language of Bonny. It did not involve war and conquest. If the slave trade did not stop when it did, perhaps even the outlying settlements that still speak Ibani will all be speaking Igbo today. Look at what migrant Igbo farmers are currently doing to the Igala language of Akpanya. If the current trend doesn't change, that town could become a full-blown Igbo-speaking town in a matter of decades.

So don't tell me war and conquests are the only way languages change. I'm too knowledgeable to be told that. I know population strength and large-scale immigrations can equally do the trick.

1. True, invasion doesn't always guarantee language change, as we saw with Fulani and Hausa in Nigeria, where Fulani conquerors were forced to accept Hausa language as the lingua franca.
However this has nothing to do with the issue I raised.
I was only pointing out the fact that your Marseille example is not apt, seeing there was an interplay between a conqueror and a conquered in the switch of language in Marseille from Greek to French, same can't be said between SE and Delta North.

2. I think it's the other way round. Igala invaded Northern fringes of Igboland and became absolved by the already Igbo speaking population there. Nsukka history is littered with stories of Igala invasion, as a matter of opinion, I believe that the southern fringes of Igalaland today could have been Igbo enclaves that got Igalanized by Igala conquests over the centuries who forced the many Igbo inhabitants there to move further south and the few that remained were Igalanized.

3.No Originally non Igbo speaking parts of Ebonyi re\\became totally Igbo speaking today. Kele language of Ntezi,Okposi and Effium people are still there today, the people only became bilingual in Igbo and Kele languages despite being surrounded all round by Ezza and Izzi speakers.

3.Arochukwu story is well known, the core is Igbo who invited Akpa( Ekoid) people and few Ibibios to help them win a territory. As a matter of fact, Arochukwu is the only recorded history of Igbo group invading a foreign land.
Afikpo and Ngwa have always been Igbo enclaves, I don't know what you are talking about.

4. No, your Igala Illah and Oko that got Igbonized over the time by Igbo influx theory cannot stand, if we factor in the fact that right there in Anioma, a Yoruboid people surrounded all over by Igbo speaking groups, retained their Yoruboid language and uses Igbo as second language, and Ebu, just a stone away from Illah, retained Igalla as first language and Igbo as a second despite being surrounded by Igbo speaking people.

It doesn't take long to see the anomaly and untenability of the idea of Igala speaking Illah that totally abandoned her Original Igalla dialect for Igbo one, without retaining Igala as a second language, when we also factor in the fact that Olumbanasaa communities in Anambra surrounded by Igbos are still Igala speaking today, and that in Nzam an aboriginally Igbo speaking community that got invaded by Igalas, Igbo remain the first language, with Igalla the second language. The Igalla invaders will not let their language die. Your Igala theory has no regional antecedent and is a non starter.

5. Some of Esan people are actually Igbos themselves. Some of them admitted to this in colonial reports.The Civil war and Igbophobia in Nigeria had made it impossible for non Igbo speaking people to come out claiming Igbo origin today.
Ekpon is switching to Igbo, but their Esan core remain. The market days, burial ceremonies and many other things rooted in antiquity remain basically Esan, you ar[right][/right]e truly over reaching with this example.

6. Bonny still have parts of its people that speak Its Ibani language. Where are the Igalla native speakers in Illah?

7. You got it all wrong. Akpanya was a farming settlement of Igbo people, who were possibly migrants from Enugu, they were Igbo speaking from the start, they didn't Igalanize anybody.

vicenzo:





3.No. Originally non Igbo speaking parts of Ebonyi remain non Igbo speaking till today.


4. No, you Igala Illah and Oko that got Igbonized over the time by Igbo influx theory cannot stand, if we factor in the fact that right there in Anioma, a Yoruboid people surrounded all over by Igbo speaking groups, retained their Yoruboid language and uses Igbo as second language, and Ebu, just a stone away from Illah, retained Igalla as first language and Igbo as a second despite being surrounded by Igbo speaking people.

It doesn't take long to see the anomaly and untenability of the idea of Igala speaking Illah that totally abandoned her Original Igalla dialect for Igbo one, without retaining Igala as a second language, when we also factor in the fact that Olumbanasaa communities in Anambra surrounded by Igbos are still Igala speaking today, and that in Nzam an aboriginally Igbo speaking community that got invaded by Igalas, Igbo remain the first language, with Igalla the second language. The Igalla invaders will not let their language die.

'Why wasn't Olukumi Igbonised?' 'Why wasn't Ebu Igbonised?' W'hy wasn't Olumbanasaa Igbonised?' It's like you do not understand the historical as well as the economic factors that drive emigration and determine the destinations of emigrants. That's why you ask these questions.

Of all these communities (Olukumi villages, Olumbanasa villages, Ebu, Illah, Oko, Asaba), Illah, Asaba and Oko are the only ones that successfully grew into substantial centres for trade in the precolonial period. Olumbanasaa is till today an inaccessible backwater place. Many people in Anambra don't even know it exists. Ebu has remained a small fishing community. Olukumi is still a poorly known enclave tucked away in Aniocha. Even my Obiaruku friend who claims to know Anioma like the back of his hand shouted "Nooo!" when i asked him if he knew about a place in Anioma where Yoruba is spoken. Olukumi remains an obscure place even today. Olukumi people I meeet are surprised when I express familiarity about them.

In contrast to these places, Asaba, Illah, and to some extent Oko were already attractive places even in precolonial times. They were all important centres of trade. They presented more attraction to immigrant elements (i.e., Igbos).

Asking why Ebu,Olumbanasaa, Olukumi were not Igbonised despite being today surrounded by Igbo-speaking elements is like asking why Basques were not Latinized or why Kabyle Berbers were not Arabized. The answer lies in history: How accesssible/attractive were their regions? What economic benefits did they present to immigrants?


Okay, I think I have time for some of the other issues/points you raised;

1. Afikpo had non-Igbo aborigines. Have you heard of the aboriginal Nkalu of Ehugbo? You haven't read their history as well as you should. Ngwa people themselves have told me about Mgboko aborigines in parts of Ngwa who were Annang. Ngwa people told me this, and I don't doubt it.

2. Arochukwu is not the only part of Igboland won by war. Go and read about the Abakiliki area and see how that area became Igbo. And this is a point I should have made earlier. I should have clearly distinguished between making war and creating empires. Igbos did not create empires, I agree. But they were not below making wars and seizing territories from their neighbours. Ask the Izii. Ask the Ikwo. Ask the Ezza.

Even in Illah, we have traditions of aggressive people from the East called the Ukala who used to make incursions into our territory until a certain Edaiken helped us curb their excesses. So don't tell me Igbos never tried to fight their way into a neighbouring territory.

3. My Bonny example still stands as an example of how non-combatant in-comers can cause language shift. The satellite villages that still retain the ibani language are the ones that didn't receive such incomers in nearly the same amount. All the important chiefs and important slave dealers lived in Mainland Bonny. Consequently, that is where most of the Igbo slaves went, and as a result that is where Igbonisation advanced farthest. Besides, Bonny wasn't an important slave centre long enough for thorough-going Igbonisation through slave populations to occur. That's why I said initially, "If the slave trade hadn't ended when it did..."

4. Names of settlements are often indicators of who was living where first. Many cities in America still carry the native American names of its earlier inhabitants. Same is true of Australia where there are many towns with aboriginal names. Illah and Oko are without any shred of doubt Igala names. Illah is Ala actually; Illah being an anglicization. Ala means temporary settlement, meaning that its first Igala settlers were migratory in nature, coming there to farm, trade, fish, and then returning to their permanent home at the end of the farming, trading, fishing seasons. With time they began to stay there more permanently, but Ala (temporary settlement) stuck as its name. Note that one of the Igala-speaking villages in Olumanasaa is also named Ala. In fact, some of the town names in Olumbanasaa are also mirrored downriver. There is Odekpe in Olumbanasaa. There is also Odekpe in Ogbaru. Interestingly, Odekpe in Ogbaru also claims Igala origin. Oko means farmland in Igala. It was originally founded as a farm. These things are known to the people there.

As I have said, i personally do not have issues with being addressed as Igbo. But if you want to talk about history, then Yes, my town was an Igala colony that became Igbonised. Even Osita Mordi the ika guy most of you see as a god does not doubt that Igalas and Edos got to parts of Anioma before Igbos. His argument rather is that those who have become Igbonised should identify as Igbos. Some of us agree with him, some of us don't. But it is really our debate to have. It doesn't concern southeasterners.

Cire80:
Ika has never accepted being Igbo neither has Ika ever been Igbo. Igbo is like Igbon in Ika language which means slave. Aniocha land is referred to as Ozhi'igbon by Ika people which means road to slavery . The slavery here is the East. The Igbon is from the name Igbo. This shows that we in Ika area regards the East as Igbo and slaves as well and the Enuani areas as where you pass through when going to Igbo land. This is in no way derogatory against the Enuani but it's targeted at the Igbos.

You can't be so sure about this until you go back in time to study the history of slavery in Igboland and the history and usage behind 'Igbo'.

To add here,n there are 6 supposed olukwumi speaking villages. 3 are completely Igbo speaking now. Of thhe remaining 3, Ugbodu village is the main village where there are olukwumi speakers. Someone from that village mentioned specifically that one quarter specifically is olukwumi speaking, and the others speak Igbo. It is also here that the 'purest' olukwumi is spoken. The next village that follows is ukwu nzu, the olukwumi here is mixed much with igbo. The reason for the survival of olukwumi in ugbodu is due to its extreme location on the farthest end of anioma land. Infact after ugbodu you cross the uhe stream or so and you are in Esan land. The isolation of this village compared to the others ensured the least anioma acculturation compared to other villlages. In fact, if not for the latest awareness made recently as to the existence of this language, it would have died out completely by the next 2 generations. Majority of its speakers are bilingual adults.

RedboneSmith:


'Why wasn't Olukumi Igbonised?' 'Why wasn't Ebu Igbonised?' W'hy wasn't Olumbanasaa Igbonised?' It's like you do not understand the historical as well as the economic factors that drive emigration and determine the destinations of emigrants. That's why you ask these questions.

Of all these communities (Olukumi villages, Olumbanasa villages, Ebu, Illah, Oko, Asaba), Illah, Asaba and Oko are the only ones that successfully grew into substantial centres for trade in the precolonial period. Olumbanasaa is till today an inaccessible backwater place. Many people in Anambra don't even know it exists. Ebu has remained a small fishing community. Olukumi is still a poorly known enclave tucked away in Aniocha. Even my Obiaruku friend who claims to know Anioma like the back of his hand shouted "Nooo!" when i asked him if he knew about a place in Anioma where Yoruba is spoken. Olukumi remains an obscure place even today. Olukumi people I meeet are surprised when I express familiarity about them.

In contrast to these places, Asaba, Illah, and to some extent Oko were already attractive places even in precolonial times. They were all important centres of trade. They presented more attraction to immigrant elements (i.e., Igbos).

Asking why Ebu,Olumbanasaa, Olukumi were not Igbonised despite being today surrounded by Igbo-speaking elements is like asking why Basques were not Latinized or why Kabyle Berbers were not Arabized. The answer lies in history: How accesssible/attractive were their regions? What economic benefits did they present to immigrants?


Okay, I think I have time for some of the other issues/points you raised;

1. Afikpo had non-Igbo aborigines. Have you heard of the aboriginal Nkalu of Ehugbo? You haven't read their history as well as you should. Ngwa people themselves have told me about Mgboko aborigines in parts of Ngwa who were Annang. Ngwa people told me this, and I don't doubt it.

2. Arochukwu is not the only part of Igboland won by war. Go and read about the Abakiliki area and see how that area became Igbo. And this is a point I should have made earlier. I should have clearly distinguished between making war and creating empires. Igbos did not create empires, I agree. But they were not below making wars and seizing territories from their neighbours. Ask the Izii. Ask the Ikwo. Ask the Ezza.

Even in Illah, we have traditions of aggressive people from the East called the Ukala who used to make incursions into our territory until a certain Edaiken helped us curb their excesses. So don't tell me Igbos never tried to fight their way into a neighbouring territory.

3. My Bonny example still stands as an example of how non-combatant in-comers can cause language shift. The satellite villages that still retain the ibani language are the ones that didn't receive such incomers in nearly the same amount. All the important chiefs and important slave dealers lived in Mainland Bonny. Consequently, that is where most of the Igbo slaves went, and as a result that is where Igbonisation advanced farthest. Besides, Bonny wasn't an important slave centre long enough for thorough-going Igbonisation through slave populations to occur. That's why I said initially, "If the slave trade hadn't ended when it did..."

4. Names of settlements are often indicators of who was living where first. Many cities in America still carry the native American names of its earlier inhabitants. Same is true of Australia where there are many towns with aboriginal names. Illah and Oko are without any shred of doubt Igala names. Illah is Ala actually; Illah being an anglicization. Ala means temporary settlement, meaning that its first Igala settlers were migratory in nature, coming there to farm, trade, fish, and then returning to their permanent home at the end of the farming, trading, fishing seasons. With time they began to stay there more permanently, but Ala (temporary settlement) stuck as its name. Note that one of the Igala-speaking villages in Olumanasaa is also named Ala. In fact, some of the town names in Olumbanasaa are also mirrored downriver. There is Odekpe in Olumbanasaa. There is also Odekpe in Ogbaru. Interestingly, Odekpe in Ogbaru also claims Igala origin. Oko means farmland in Igala. It was originally founded as a farm. These things are known to the people there.

As I have said, i personally do not have issues with being addressed as Igbo. But if you want to talk about history, then Yes, my town was an Igala colony that became Igbonised. Even Osita Mordi the ika guy most of you see as a god does not doubt that Igalas and Edos got to parts of Anioma before Igbos. His argument rather is that those who have become Igbonised should identify as Igbos. Some of us agree with him, some of us don't. But it is really our debate to have. It doesn't concern southeasterners.

But ala means land in Igbo and not what you said in igalla

Olumbanasa is purely an Igbo term meaning voice of the seven towns or villages


So how come the igalla tarred naming their towns Igbo name and forgetting igalla names


Was they bitten by Igbo bug

ariesbull:


But ala means land in Igbo and not what you said in igalla

Look sometimes, you people have to pause and think before posting. It is people like you that say Ubani (Bonny) means wealth of land, when 'ani' doesn't even mean 'land' in the southern Igbo lands. Don't be trying to use your Owerri or Umuahia dialect to explain our name. We don't call land ala; we call it ani. The Ala i'm talking about is not even pronounced like your ala for land. Our name, Ala/Illah means exactly what i told you it means. It is an Igala word

Olumbanasa is purely an Igbo term meaning voice of the seven towns or villages


So how come the igalla tarred naming their towns Igbo name and forgetting igalla names

Olumbanasaa is an Igbo word, I agree. It doesn't mean 'voice of seven towns'.
The way you keep translating these words tells me you are an Imo or Abia man, and you don't know the Anambra River/Oshimili zone very well. If it meant 'voice of seven towns', the name would have been Onumbanasaa, not Olumbanasaa, going by the Igbo dialect of the area.

Olu means 'riverine', and was in many circumstances used by both Oshimili people and Aguleri to refer to Igala people, especially of the Ibaji district. Olumbanasaa means 'Seven Olu (Igala in this case) communities'. That is the collective name their Igbo neighbours gave them. The individual communities of Olumbanasaa all have names that are for the most part, if not completely, Igala names.

bigfrancis21:
To add here,n there are 6 supposed olukwumi speaking villages. 3 are completely Igbo speaking now. Of thhe remaining 3, Ugbodu village is the main village where there are olukwumi speakers. Someone from that village mentioned specifically that one quarter specifically is olukwumi speaking, and the others speak Igbo. It is also here that the 'purest' olukwumi is spoken. The next village that follows is ukwu nzu, the olukwumi here is mixed much with igbo. The reason for the survival of olukwumi in ugbodu is due to its extreme location on the farthest end of anioma land. Infact after ugbodu you cross the uhe stream or so and you are in Esan land. The isolation of this village compared to the others ensured the least anioma acculturation compared to other villlages. In fact, if not for the latest awareness made recently as to the existence of this language, it would have died out completely by the next 2 generations. Majority of its speakers are bilingual adults.

I know you're Igbo. thanks for being honest and not trying to twist fact just to win online argument

RedboneSmith:


Look sometimes, you people have to pause and think before posting. It is people like you that say Ubani (Bonny) means wealth of land, when 'ani' doesn't even mean 'land' in the southern Igbo lands. Don't be trying to use your Owerri or Umuahia dialect to explain our name. We don't call land ala; we call it ani. The Ala i'm talking about is not even pronounced like your ala for land. Our name, Ala/Illah means exactly what i told you it means. It is an Igala word



Olumbanasaa is an Igbo word, I agree. It doesn't mean 'voice of seven towns'.
The way you keep translating these words tells me you are an Imo or Abia man, and you don't know the Anambra River/Oshimili zone very well. If it meant 'voice of seven towns', the name would have been Onumbanasaa, not Olumbanasaa, going by the Igbo dialect of the area.

Olu means 'riverine', and was in many circumstances used by both Oshimili people and Aguleri to refer to Igala people, especially of the Ibaji district. Olumbanasaa means 'Seven Olu (Igala in this case) communities'. That is the collective name their Igbo neighbours gave them. The individual communities of Olumbanasaa all have names that are for the most part, if not completely, Igala names.

They try to do direct translation of every term they come across without trying to understand the history of those term. It's possible for two words to have similar spelling but very different pronunciation and meaning, especially when it's from two different languages

bigfrancis21:


You can't be so sure about this until you go back in time to study the history of slavery in Igboland and the history and usage behind 'Igbo'.

actually, I know this has nothing to do with slavery because I think the slavery route in Igbo land is Enuani towards Ukwani area/Aboh. It's just a derogatory term.

RedboneSmith:


Look sometimes, you people have to pause and think before posting. It is people like you that say Ubani (Bonny) means wealth of land, when 'ani' doesn't even mean 'land' in the southern Igbo lands. Don't be trying to use your Owerri or Umuahia dialect to explain our name. We don't call land ala; we call it ani. The Ala i'm talking about is not even pronounced like your ala for land. Our name, Ala/Illah means exactly what i told you it means. It is an Igala word



Olumbanasaa is an Igbo word, I agree. It doesn't mean 'voice of seven towns'.
The way you keep translating these words tells me you are an Imo or Abia man, and you don't know the Anambra River/Oshimili zone very well. If it meant 'voice of seven towns', the name would have been Onumbanasaa, not Olumbanasaa, going by the Igbo dialect of the area.

Olu means 'riverine', and was in many circumstances used by both Oshimili people and Aguleri to refer to Igala people, especially of the Ibaji district. Olumbanasaa means 'Seven Olu (Igala in this case) communities'. That is the collective name their Igbo neighbours gave them. The individual communities of Olumbanasaa all have names that are for the most part, if not completely, Igala names.

Olu is a term for Igbo living by the riverside and it is purely an igbo word..thats why there is sayong that Olu na Igbo bu Ofu...we even have local government that is at the fringes of Njaba river and Oguta lake that is called Oru (Olu) Oru East and Oru west..so bro..find another gist


now coming to igala

the igalla word for land is Ipa or Sampa pronunciation: IPA: /lænd/ lænd , SAMPA: l{nd /l{nd/



you know you can fool them but you cant fool me.


You guys are lying ...your lies are impressive



check Igalla dictionary ...I thank lord for internet. People cant lie again these days


now bounce off


https://glosbe.com/en/igl/land

Illah was originally formed by five major villages: Edem, Utei, Iyagbo, Agwu and Nwabukwu. According to local history, the villages came under perpetual torment by people across the river Niger until a messiah from the descendant of Benin kingdom called Idaiken rescued them. This man was allowed citizenship as an honor for his bravery and he became the founder of the sixth village called Ukwumege. He was also granted autonomy among so many other privileges due to the role played. The Iyase and the Odogu of Ukwumege is the only once recognized in Illah. Through the course immigration, Illah is today made up of nine villages, to include Onya, Ogbolu, Ogbeji. Each village is headed by the eldest male known as 'diokpa'. A village is further divided into a number of quarters.

ariesbull:


But ala means land in Igbo and not what you said in igalla

Olumbanasa is purely an Igbo term meaning voice of the seven towns or villages


So how come the igalla tarred naming their towns Igbo name and forgetting igalla names


Was they bitten by Igbo bug

Nne I nāto ochi

ariesbull:




now coming to igala

the igalla word for land is Ipa or Sampa pronunciation: IPA: /lænd/ lænd , SAMPA: l{nd /l{nd/

When i spot idiots, I stop talking to them. This comment just tells me you are not a smart person at all, hence this is where I end all correpsondence with you as far as this thread is concerned. When I talked about Ala being an Igala word, I don't remember saying it means land in Igala. I clearly stated what it meant. But your ass is just too stupid to follow a simple explanation.

Ipa or sampa is not even the Igala word for land. Where did your stupid ass get that from? Land in Igala is ane.

Nigga, fvck off and don't come back quoting or mentioning me cause i won't respond.

IPA means International Phonetic Alphabet, and SAMPA means Speech Assessment Methods Phonetic Alphabet. They are acronyms. They are written before two different pronunciations of 'land' to indicate two different phonetic alphabet systems for pronouncing the word. But this uncomprehending simpleton can't even use the internet right.

Look, akpasukwana m iwe this hot afternoon.

RedboneSmith:
IPA means International Phonetic Alphabet, and SAMPA means Speech Assessment Methods Phonetic Alphabet. They are acronyms. They are written before two different pronunciations of 'land' to indicate two different phonetic alphabet systems for pronouncing the word. But this uncomprehending simpleton can't even use the internet right.

Look, akpasukwana m iwe this hot afternoon.

I tell you all they do is give direct Igbo translation to any words they come across. It's so funny. This people will argue with you about your age. Very strange people

RedboneSmith:
IPA means International Phonetic Alphabet, and SAMPA means Speech Assessment Methods Phonetic Alphabet. They are acronyms. They are written before two different pronunciations of 'land' to indicate two different phonetic alphabet systems for pronouncing the word. But this uncomprehending simpleton can't even use the internet right.

Look, akpasukwana m iwe this hot afternoon.

Chimo!! Una no go kill person with laugh for here!! These guys are revisionists par excellence. You should know that by now...please don't let them get you worked up!

RedboneSmith:


When i spot idiots, I stop talking to them. This comment just tells me you are not a smart person at all, hence this is where I end all correpsondence with you as far as this thread is concerned. When I talked about Ala being an Igala word, I don't remember saying it means land in Igala. I clearly stated what it meant. But your ass is just too stupid to follow a simple explanation.

Ipa or sampa is not even the Igala word for land. Where did your stupid ass get that from? Land in Igala is ane.

Nigga, fvck off and don't come back quoting or mentioning me cause i won't respond.

he is getting abusive, tell us the meaning of ala in your igalla and tell me that i am not correct


your despicable in adorable way

laudate:


Chimo!! Una no go kill person with laugh for here!! These guys are revisionists par excellence. You should know that by now...please don't let them get you worked up!

oh you tag along

ariesbull:
oh you tag along

Don't you owe RedboneSmith and some other chaps here, an apology for that false info you just posted?

laudate:


Don't you owe RedboneSmith and some other chaps here, an apology for that false info you just posted?

Does he even understand what is wrong with what he posted? I doubt it.

RedboneSmith:


'Why wasn't Olukumi Igbonised?' 'Why wasn't Ebu Igbonised?' W'hy wasn't Olumbanasaa Igbonised?' It's like you do not understand the historical as well as the economic factors that drive emigration and determine the destinations of emigrants. That's why you ask these questions.

Of all these communities (Olukumi villages, Olumbanasa villages, Ebu, Illah, Oko, Asaba), Illah, Asaba and Oko are the only ones that successfully grew into substantial centres for trade in the precolonial period. Olumbanasaa is till today an inaccessible backwater place. Many people in Anambra don't even know it exists. Ebu has remained a small fishing community. Olukumi is still a poorly known enclave tucked away in Aniocha. Even my Obiaruku friend who claims to know Anioma like the back of his hand shouted "Nooo!" when i asked him if he knew about a place in Anioma where Yoruba is spoken. Olukumi remains an obscure place even today. Olukumi people I meeet are surprised when I express familiarity about them.

In contrast to these places, Asaba, Illah, and to some extent Oko were already attractive places even in precolonial times. They were all important centres of trade. They presented more attraction to immigrant elements (i.e., Igbos).

Asking why Ebu,Olumbanasaa, Olukumi were not Igbonised despite being today surrounded by Igbo-speaking elements is like asking why Basques were not Latinized or why Kabyle Berbers were not Arabized. The answer lies in history: How accesssible/attractive were their regions? What economic benefits did they present to immigrants?


Okay, I think I have time for some of the other issues/points you raised;

1. Afikpo had non-Igbo aborigines. Have you heard of the aboriginal Nkalu of Ehugbo? You haven't read their history as well as you should. Ngwa people themselves have told me about Mgboko aborigines in parts of Ngwa who were Annang. Ngwa people told me this, and I don't doubt it.

2. Arochukwu is not the only part of Igboland won by war. Go and read about the Abakiliki area and see how that area became Igbo. And this is a point I should have made earlier. I should have clearly distinguished between making war and creating empires. Igbos did not create empires, I agree. But they were not below making wars and seizing territories from their neighbours. Ask the Izii. Ask the Ikwo. Ask the Ezza.

Even in Illah, we have traditions of aggressive people from the East called the Ukala who used to make incursions into our territory until a certain Edaiken helped us curb their excesses. So don't tell me Igbos never tried to fight their way into a neighbouring territory.

3. My Bonny example still stands as an example of how non-combatant in-comers can cause language shift. The satellite villages that still retain the ibani language are the ones that didn't receive such incomers in nearly the same amount. All the important chiefs and important slave dealers lived in Mainland Bonny. Consequently, that is where most of the Igbo slaves went, and as a result that is where Igbonisation advanced farthest. Besides, Bonny wasn't an important slave centre long enough for thorough-going Igbonisation through slave populations to occur. That's why I said initially, "If the slave trade hadn't ended when it did..."

4. Names of settlements are often indicators of who was living where first. Many cities in America still carry the native American names of its earlier inhabitants. Same is true of Australia where there are many towns with aboriginal names. Illah and Oko are without any shred of doubt Igala names. Illah is Ala actually; Illah being an anglicization. Ala means temporary settlement, meaning that its first Igala settlers were migratory in nature, coming there to farm, trade, fish, and then returning to their permanent home at the end of the farming, trading, fishing seasons. With time they began to stay there more permanently, but Ala (temporary settlement) stuck as its name. Note that one of the Igala-speaking villages in Olumanasaa is also named Ala. In fact, some of the town names in Olumbanasaa are also mirrored downriver. There is Odekpe in Olumbanasaa. There is also Odekpe in Ogbaru. Interestingly, Odekpe in Ogbaru also claims Igala origin. Oko means farmland in Igala. It was originally founded as a farm. These things are known to the people there.

As I have said, i personally do not have issues with being addressed as Igbo. But if you want to talk about history, then Yes, my town was an Igala colony that became Igbonised. Even Osita Mordi the ika guy most of you see as a god does not doubt that Igalas and Edos got to parts of Anioma before Igbos. His argument rather is that those who have become Igbonised should identify as Igbos. Some of us agree with him, some of us don't. But it is really our debate to have. It doesn't concern southeasterners.

1. I think you are over simplifying issues to fit into your already pre conceived ideas.
There are many Anioma communities who are remote, and claim non Igbo origin, yet are Igbo speaking today.
I'm sorry, your remote/commercial centre theory holds thin.If it's solid, those other remote Anioma communities wouldn't be Igbo speaking, they will be speaking a distinct non Igbo language like Ebu and Odiani.

2.I know of Nkalu and Egu people that combined to produce modern Afikpo. that the Egu was called Igbo, does not mean that Nkalu was non Igbo in the sense of Igbo of today. It's similar to the use of the term " Olu/oru na Igbo bu nwanne. Both the Oru and Igbo in today word are Igbos.
Nkalu was said to have migrated from the Ekoi country, but like wise was Abiriba that migrated from a place called Enan in today Akwa
Cross area, and Edda migrated from Itu area of current Akwa Ibom, it doesn't mean that the people were non Igbo from the beginning. Isobo in Obubra LGA are still Igbo speaking and are in Cross Rivers state surrounded by non Igbo speaking people today. Who is to say that Nkalu have not always been Igbo speaking?
3. Borderline communities often have intermixtures, but the dominant culture wins out. The Entire Ngwa is and has always been an Igbo enclave, no non Igbo was Igbonized anymore than borderline Igbo people were turned Annang by Annangs.

4. Lol, what is the Ukala story angle suppose to mean?
Problem with you is that you have created in your mind, an untenable picture of a big monolithic heavily populated Igbo precolonial country that it's population density kept pushing its people into non Igbo speaking territories, where they end up erasing the language and the culture of the aboriginals of the land, who were non Igbos.
Problem with this theory is that, there was no monolithic Pre colonial Igbo country, each Igbo clan faced its own demon on its own as if to say they were minorities.
For example, contrary to you theory of Igbos invading and migrating to Igala country, the Turmoil in Igala country forced the Igalas to invade and changed the the entire Anambra North demographics, there were stories of. Igalla invasion of those parts, with general Ajida invasion being the most popular. the same happened in Enugu North.As the Kwararafa pushed Igallas from the North and the Bini from the West, the Igallas spilled into Northern Anambra and Enugu.

Anambra North is today sparsely populated because Igalas tormented and forced many aboriginal Igbo communities there into south ward movement, I personally believe that the area we call Ibaji today could possibly have been an Igbo enclave that got invaded by Igalas.
By the way, are you aware of the aboriginal Akri Igbo people that once inhabited Aboh kingdom their remnants are today found in Atani,Akili Ogidi and Akili Oziza in Ogbaru Anambra, the now defunct Ogidi Igbo speaking kingdom that is believed to have once existed in the heart of Aniocha/Oshimili area?
Aboh was the major terror that terrorized the entire Ogbaru, Ogba, Ndoni areas, Igala terrorized the entire Northern Anambra and Enugu. There was no Monolithic Igbo union, just Igbo speaking clans fighting independently for survival, against Igbo speaking and non Igbo speaking neighbors.

5. No, your Bonny example is a non starter. Bonny still have a second non Igbo Language, despite heavy Igbo presence. The traditional institutions there still reflect Ibani presence. This is not same with Illah.

6. This is not always true. There are many instances where by New colonialist/ conquerors rename places.
And you know this. Nigeria just renamed Obiigbo before our very eyes, after we lost the war. But the natives there remain Igbos.
This your town name point is null and invalid. I'd rather look at things rooted in antiquity, like names of old deities, basic common things, villages, etc than just the town name.
Agwu,Nnabukwu, Utei and Iyiagbor dont sound Igala to me, neither does Iyi Okar. They are Igbo words.

7. You believe whatever you want to. No one Igbonized anyone.
Nnebisi didn't even meet Asaba empty, he meant many groups with Igbo names as leaders in the land, which he united.
Nnebisi himself is of Igbo mother, his father being of Igala origin, with Igala paternity is but his mother narrative. Looking at the story, it seemed to me that Eze Anyanwu, One of the aboriginals of Asaba, that Nnebisi met on his return there, was his father.
Asaba started off from the very beginning as an Igbo enclave, no one Igbonized anyone, or whatever that means.

I am amused. Stay in Ogidi and continue to pontificate on the history of a people you don't know anything about, you hear?

Just look at the gymnastics you were playing with Nkalu and Afikpo. In one breath you say they are Igbo. In another breath you admit they came from across the Cross River, but somehow they were Igbo, even though they were Ekoi. Because Abiriba!

In one breath you dismiss the place name Ala/Allah, but want to latch unto the place-names of the villages that sound Igbo to you.

And somehow I am the one with pre-conceived notions, twisting facts to suit my narrow monolithic perceptions.

For your information, only two of the five Illah villages are believed by Illah people to have Igbo names, and one of those two immigrated from Oguta. But of course everything sounds Igbo to you people....

RedboneSmith:
I am amused. Stay in Ogidi and continue to pontificate on the history of a people you don't know anything about, you hear?

Just look at the gymnastics you were playing with Nkalu and Afikpo. In one breath you say they are Igbo. In another breath you admit they came from across the Cross River, but somehow they were Igbo, even though they were Ekoi. Because Abiriba!

In one breath you dismiss the place name Ala/Allah, but want to latch unto the place-names of the villages that sound Igbo to you.

And somehow I am the one with pre-conceived notions, twisting facts to suit my narrow monolithic perceptions.

For your information, only two of the five Illah villages are believed by Illah people to have Igbo names, and one of those two immigrated from Oguta. But of course everything sounds Igbo to you people....

1. The Ogidi kingdom angle story were not manufactured by Ogidi people, it's part of Enu-ani history that confusionists had attempted to bury to continue their madness.
2. Nkalu are not the only Igbo speaking people that lived in the land today occupied by Cross Rivers and Akwa Ibom people. Abriba, Edda, etc are other examples, and these people have been Igbo speaking since antiquity.
Even in modern Times, we still have Isobo, an Igbo speaking people living in Obubra as natives. Surrounded by non Igbos.
I played no gymnastics there.

3. Ala is Igbo word for land. Even if it's Igala, it means nothing, as examples abound Of places being renamed by recent more powerful invaders or New powers controlling the area.
Nnabukwu, Utei, Agwu sound Igbo enough for me.
Not that it matters to confusionists in Anioma. After all, despite Igbo sounding name of Eze Chima, confusionists there are still parading Edo origin stories, easily dismissing the Igbo name. But now, you want the names to carry weight, simply because you think it helps your antics.

4.You are free to be whatever you want. You can even create a new Ethnic group called IgaIbo, I don't care.
But you will not be allowed to misrepresent the history of Igbo speaking people and our ancestral lands.

vicenzo:


1. The Ogidi kingdom angle story were not manufactured by Ogidi people, it's part of Enu-ani history that confusionists had attempted to bury to continue their madness.
2. Nkalu are not the only Igbo speaking people that lived in the land today occupied by Cross Rivers and Akwa Ibom people. Abriba, Edda, etc are other examples, and these people have been Igbo speaking since antiquity.
Even in modern Times, we still have Isobo, an Igbo speaking people living in Obubra as natives. Surrounded by non Igbos.
I played no gymnastics there.

3. Ala is Igbo word for land. Even if it's Igala, it means nothing, as examples abound Of places being renamed by recent more powerful invaders or New powers controlling the area.
Nnabukwu, Utei, Agwu sound Igbo enough for me.
Not that it matters to confusionists in Anioma. After all, despite Igbo sounding name of Eze Chima, confusionists there are still parading Edo origin stories, easily dismissing the Igbo name. But now, you want the names to carry weight, simply because you think it helps your antics.

4.You are free to be whatever you want. You can even create a new Ethnic group called IgaIbo, I don't care.
But you will not be allowed to misrepresent the history of Igbo speaking people and our ancestral lands.

Its clear that Igbos were aborigines to these places, but overtime other ethnic group came in and got absorbed. I spoke with an Ikwerre elderly man today, from Ekini-Igbo, in Rumuigbo, his response to my questions was very interesting - migration, culture and Arochukwu political influence - These guys denies Igbo for political reasons, but deep in their heart, they know who they are.
Anyway, I've made up my mind to respect their position.

I can't speak for Ikwerre. There's may be political reasons but for my Ika people, we know who we are. We're neither Bini nor Igbo. We're Ika people part and parcel of the Anioma nation. One thing that binds all Anioma groups is Igbo and Bini but the Bini is rooted in antiquity. In all speres of our life.

Cire80:
I can't speak for Ikwerre. There's may be political reasons but for my Ika people, we know who we are. We're neither Bini nor Igbo. We're Ika people part and parcel of the Anioma nation. One thing that binds all Anioma groups is Igbo and Bini but the Bini is rooted in antiquity. In all speres of our life.

Now you are making sense, but why not back up your claims with facts. I mean academic research work..... This will be more convincing. Besides, most research done in the past do actually point to different direction and dimension of migration.
Its a known fact that migration do not occur on one direction, and wave, but can be from different areas, especially on border communities; with time, they merged to become one entity.
If you come down to Ebonyi State, you will understand what I'm saying.
The point of my argument is that Igbos were already settled.... before other arrivals came in...hence, the language, culture, name and other factors.... serving as evidence. But you can still refute my claims, if you can, with factual researched work.

blues20:


Now you are making sense, but why not back up your claims with facts. I mean academic research work..... This will be more convincing. Besides, most research done in the past do actually point to different direction and dimension of migration.
Its a known fact that migration do not occur on one direction, and wave, but can be from different areas, especially on border communities; with time, they merged to become one entity.
If you come down to Ebonyi State, you will understand what I'm saying.
The point of my argument is that Igbos were already settled.... before other arrivals came in...hence, the language, culture, name and other factors.... serving as evidence. But you can still refute my claims, if you can, with factual researched work.

language, yes but language is not a valid point to prove that Igbos were already settled as language shift and acculturation can occur when a minority tribe is bordered by a major tribe (NB: Bini is a minority when brought side by side with Igbo) . There are proves of Igbonization in our languages. Many of the Edo and indigenous Ika words are being replaced by Igbo courtesy of Nollywood, Igbo gospel music, Christianity. Some Ika people in Catholic, protestants, Presbyterian and Baptist churches were thought how to pray in Igbo, though they can't speak Igbo, they can pray in Igbo because that's the language they learned it with; doesn't it sound funny? There are so many factors that contributed to the Igbonization of ika language.

That aside, when you talk about names and culture, don't even go there at all. Our surnames (I'm sure this is what should be used as yardstick), are mostly Edo and our culture is Edo. I'm sure you people know this already but keep on bringing it up.