[color=#000099][/color]
A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed.
As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation. They talked about so many things and various subjects.
When they eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said: "I don't believe that God exists."
"Why do you say that?" asked the customer.
"Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God
doesn't exist. Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people?
Would there be abandoned children? If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain. I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all of these things."
The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't want to start an argument.
The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop. Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard. He looked dirty and unkempt.

The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said to the barber: "You know what? Barbers do not exist."
"How can you say that?" asked the surprised barber.
"I am here, and I am a barber. And I just worked on you!"
"No!" the customer exclaimed. "Barbers don't exist because if they did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like that man outside."
"Ah, but barbers DO exist!” Answered the barber. "What happens is people do not come to me."

"Exactly!" - affirmed the customer. "That's the point! God, too, DOES exist! What happens is people don't go to Him and do not
look for Him. That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world."

"If God is all-powerful and all-good, it would have created a universe with no suffering and no evil. But, evil and suffering exist. Therefore God does not exist, is not all-powerful or is not benevolent. Attempts to justify the existence of evil are called theodicies. There are no fully working theodicies, even popular ones such as the free will theodicy were rejected thousands of years ago for reasons that still stand today. It seems that if there is a god, it is not the all-good moral being that classical religions would have us believe"

"I argue that God is a result of Human desire, Human needs and Human projection and that these explain even the personal experience of God more rationally than the conclusion that God really exists. Firstly, I highlight how we know some people have false experiences. Secondly, I list some particular characters traits and causes of God experiences. I conclude that it is not necessary for a God to exist in order to explain why people believe in one."

GeeCee,

Very happy you started this post since it was the next topic I wanted to raise.  A lot of people don't believe that God exists because of all the pain and suffering in the world.

If you subscribe to Christianity, when the world was created by God, it was perfect.
When he created man and woman, they were perfect (complete), and had communion with God daily, which was their sole purpose.  To bring pleasure to God.

After sin came into the world via disobedience, the first act of sin, it open the door to a nature that was known to men before. The nature of satan, the deceiver, the manipulator the angel that was cast out.

How then could God correct this separation from Him, and make a way for us to again have that communion with him for which we were created?

It would be difficult.  He tried wiping us all out, and he mourned.

So there was another way , a redeemer ,

Man's sinful nature is inherent from the womb.

So here's what God did ,

He chose men to be piests , these priests would make sacrifices on behalf of the people , blood was shed to symbolize the remission of sins. If the priest himself was found to be in sin he would be struck dead in the ark of the covenenant and pulled out by a rope by the people outside.

In this same manner, he sent His son, Jesus the messiah, to be a sacrificial lamb to atone for the sins of the people

The Lamb of God, was shed once for all, so that there no longer needs to be sacrifices and burnt offerings to him for remission of sin.

In this way, provision was made for us to restore our relationship with God, thru Jesus Christ, by his blood, and by his grace (undeserved favour)

However, God cannot rule your life, unless you allow him to.

If u choose to remain in your inherent sinful nature, you expose yourself to every single attach of satan.  Sickness, murder, you name it , the devil can do whatever he wants with and to you.

But Jesus has provided a way for us to be covered, protected and give us a reward in heaven.  Those who believe in him have hope. Those who do not are only confused.

Where is God? He is right there, watching u read this, but unless u allow him to take control of your life by accepting the free gift of salvation he provided thru the blood of the Lamb, your fate is not in His hands.

Free will, free choice, another gift from God.

Curses move from generation to generation, man woman and child.  Suffering exists in the world because of sin! Not because God can't do anything about it.  

He is a God of order, and a God of love.  But if u choose to stay outside his will , well , suffer the consequences on this earth and beyond.

God is very real to me, more real than anyone can imagine or understand. I know people say why all the suffering, it's all deeper and there is more than meets the eye. I can't really go into great details, each person have their own personal relationship with the God i know ''jehovah'' is who i mean. I won't bore anyone, i just wish it on everyone here, becos it is the best thing that happened to me. God saved my life Literarily

God exists, but jesus was 100% a mythological character

Reverend:

"If God is all-powerful and all-good, it would have created a universe with no suffering and no evil. But, evil and suffering exist. Therefore God does not exist, is not all-powerful or is not benevolent. Attempts to justify the existence of evil are called theodicies. There are no fully working theodicies, even popular ones such as the free will theodicy were rejected thousands of years ago for reasons that still stand today. It seems that if there is a god, it is not the all-good moral being that classical religions would have us believe"

"I argue that God is a result of Human desire, Human needs and Human projection and that these explain even the personal experience of God more rationally than the conclusion that God really exists. Firstly, I highlight how we know some people have false experiences. Secondly, I list some particular characters traits and causes of God experiences. I conclude that it is not necessary for a God to exist in order to explain why people believe in one."

@Reverend
Pls and kindly include the authors of your quotes in your next post, or where you did a C&P from.

heres what I have to say:
- God in Genesis created a world without suffering and evil. The Bible tells us "everything was very good". He made man in His own image and gave him a free-will to decide what to do. He put man in a garden and gave him just one instruction on what not to do, yet this man disobeyed, and so evil, pain and hatred spread more and more with every child born into his generation.

No one teaches children deceit, no one teaches them to lie. There is no formal training to do evil. Its the powerlessness and lack of self determination in man to choose good that has made this world what it is today.

Has the author of your first quote found someone, a being who is more benevolent and all-powerful more than God? Where is the proof. Has there been a contest between the two? who was the judge?

If he(the author) hasnt found one yet, he has sorely deceived himself and such deception is usually worse than somene been decieved by someone else.

GeeCee:

[color=#000099][/color]
A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed.
As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation. They talked about so many things and various subjects.
When they eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said: "I don't believe that God exists."
"Why do you say that?" asked the customer.
"Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God
doesn't exist. Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people?
Would there be abandoned children? If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain. I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all of these things."
The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't want to start an argument.
The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop. Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard. He looked dirty and unkempt.

The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said to the barber: "You know what? Barbers do not exist."
"How can you say that?" asked the surprised barber.
"I am here, and I am a barber. And I just worked on you!"
"No!" the customer exclaimed. "Barbers don't exist because if they did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like that man outside."
"Ah, but barbers DO exist!” Answered the barber. "What happens is people do not come to me."

"Exactly!" - affirmed the customer. "That's the point! God, too, DOES exist! What happens is people don't go to Him and do not
look for Him. That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world."

Silly story that hardly bears little semblance to the different ideas of Gods (there seems to be many of them floating around this days - the flawed analogy thing, that is. Although there are many Gods floating around too).

First of all, there are many alledged barbers not just the one, and - and this is the important part - they are invisible. In fact, most times you need to be told about them by people who haven't seen the barbers, but are just sure they are there.

Second, what is this nonsense about them not wanting to come to him? That's a gross misrepresentation of the facts. Many have tried, many would like to believe, but they soon realise the barber is like Santa, Elves, and Unicorns (except the IPU of course), make believe.

Finally, I've been told that the Christian barber made things this way, so she probably wants dirty scroungy people for a reason.

@Kag

You forgot to mention the Leprechauns!

Reverend:

@Kag

You forgot to mention the Leprechauns!

Lol, I did. Leprechauns forgive me.

Yes.

angelz:

Yes.

GeeCee:

[color=#000099][/color]
A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed.
As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation. They talked about so many things and various subjects.
When they eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said: "I don't believe that God exists."
"Why do you say that?" asked the customer.
"Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God
doesn't exist. Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people?
Would there be abandoned children? If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain. I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all of these things."
The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't want to start an argument.
The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop. Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard. He looked dirty and unkempt.

The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said to the barber: "You know what? Barbers do not exist."
"How can you say that?" asked the surprised barber.
"I am here, and I am a barber. And I just worked on you!"
"No!" the customer exclaimed. "Barbers don't exist because if they did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like that man outside."
"Ah, but barbers DO exist!” Answered the barber. "What happens is people do not come to me."

"Exactly!" - affirmed the customer. "That's the point! God, too, DOES exist! What happens is people don't go to Him and do not
look for Him. That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world."

Question for OP,
does it mean that those who believed in God are not part of the so much pains and suffering,what particualr advantage do they have ove others ?.

The selfish gene abounds, when someone does not die in an accident it is the work of God, when kids continually dies of Hiv everyday it is because they did not look for God. Very very selfish people these religious folks.

Chrisbenogor:

The selfish gene abounds, when someone does not die in an accident it is the work of God, when kids continually dies of Hiv everyday it is because they did not look for God. Very very selfish people these religious folks.

well God does exist. you either believe it or not

Obviously all the sick and suffering people in the world have simply failed to come to God.

Including all the christians that die in hospital of various ailments.

Atheist are looking for the god they will blame wen things go wrong. This why they cant find one.

you all forget that God created all, and all he created were governed by principles. When we flunt these rules we get consiquences.

the problems we see today is not caused by God but by breaking the principles behind His creations. The greenhouse effect is caused by man.the wars we see are caused by our greeds.
God should not be denyd because men has faild.

All these hepocrates atheist deny God but are afraid of witches. Mumu people

For the fact that we cannot conceptualize Him with our little brain doesn't mean he does not exist.

dadde:

For the fact that we cannot conceptualize Him with our little brain doesn't mean he does not exist.

How do you mean, are there no already existing concepts of God ?
Omniscience, omnipresence etc.

@ banom. Can you prove that God does not exist.

dadde:

@ banom. Can you prove that God does not exist.

That is not a big deal, but before i do that, i would like you to define EXISTENCE for me.

Lets just pray for these people who still  do not belive that the all powerful  and all wise creator exist.                  Do u ever ask yourself, where did the world come from? Did it just happen? Or did a great mind plan it and a great power make it? When u see a bicycle, a car, or an airplane, u know for sure that it couldnt have just happened. Someone planned it and made it so that it would operate accordind to fixed rules. The world and everything in it functions according to fixed patterns which we call laws of nature. The more science discovers about these laws, the more sure we are that someone planned every detail of the universe, made it, and keeps it functioning according to his plan. That someone is God, the all-powerful and all-wise creator. He is Lord, or Ruler, of the Universe.  Please Memorize This-- Genesis 1;1. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. John 1:3. All things were made by him. Genesis 1;31. And God saw everything that he had made was good.

SOMETHING WENT WRONG, Look around and u will see suffering, sorrow, quarrels, violence, war, hunger, and death. The world is not perfect now. What went wrong? This once perfect world has been spoiled by an enemy of God and by man himself. God has an enemy called Satan, or the devil. He was made by God but he became proud and rebellious. Now satan is against everything that God is in for, useing somebody here to be disobedient,  posting a lot of Rebellious words against God. God is good; satan fights good with evil. My brothers God want to help us: satan tries to destroy us. God wants to enjoy mans love and fellowship: the devil tries to separate us from God. santan tries to make us follow him instead of God. Surrender yourself to God so that satan will not have power over u,

goodguy100:

Lets just pray for these people who still  do not belive that the all powerful  and all wise creator exist.               [b]   Do u ever ask yourself, where did the world come from? Did it just happen? [/b]Or did a great mind plan it and a great power make it? When u see a bicycle, a car, or an airplane, u know for sure that it couldnt have just happened. Someone planned it and made it so that it would operate accordind to fixed rules. The world and everything in it functions according to fixed patterns which we call laws of nature. The more science discovers about these laws, the more sure we are that someone planned every detail of the universe, made it, and keeps it functioning according to his plan. That someone is God, the all-powerful and all-wise creator. He is Lord, or Ruler, of the Universe.  Please Memorize This-- Genesis 1;1. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. John 1:3. All things were made by him. Genesis 1;31. And God saw everything that he had made was good.

Do you ever ask yourself where did God come from? Did God just happen?
Who or what created God??

It is foolish to say God does not exist or that Jesus Christ was a mythological character.
Jesus Christ is a fact of history. To deny he ever existed is a manifestation of utmost stupidity. Historian and many events in history proved he once lived on this planet.

The problem with many foolish human beings is that they are looking for an indulgent God or one that will violate the freewill He has given to man. We want to be free but we want a 'God' that will clean all the mess we made as a result of our disobedience to his commandment. If we as men make laws (constitution) and punish those who btreak them, it will be stupid for us to think the Creator of the heaven and earth should just leave us to ourself and make a mess of the whole creation.

The analogy the man that answered the barber is enough to answer some questions raised in this thread. The fact that many people go arund with long unkempt hair does not mean we do not have barbers. So God does exist and He is VERY RESPONSIBLE TOO. He is merciful, kind, loving, but also JUST. He will not overlook any disobedience to His word or alliance with His enemy (Satan). He will bring every work of man to judgement at His appointed time.
Be sure also that wherever you spend your eternity you still belong to God. Satan himself and his followers were made by God and they are God's properties.
Whichever way anyone dies is not a loss to God. He own everything whether dead or alive.
If u do not know that God exist, you will get to know when you die.

Duroe:

It is foolish to say God does not exist or that Jesus Christ was a mythological character.
Jesus Christ is a fact of history. To deny he ever existed is a manifestation of utmost stupidity. Historian and many events in history proved he once lived on this planet.

The problem with many foolish human beings is that they are looking for an indulgent God or one that will violate the freewill He has given to man. We want to be free but we want a 'God' that will clean all the mess we made as a result of our disobedience to his commandment. If we as men make laws (constitution) and punish those who btreak them, it will be stupid for us to think the Creator of the heaven and earth should just leave us to ourself and make a mess of the whole creation.

The analogy the man that answered the barber is enough to answer some questions raised in this thread. The fact that many people go arund with long unkempt hair does not mean we do not have barbers. So God does exist and He is VERY RESPONSIBLE TOO. He is merciful, kind, loving, but also JUST. He will not overlook any disobedience to His word or alliance with His enemy (Satan). He will bring every work of man to judgement at His appointed time.
Be sure also that wherever you spend your eternity you still belong to God. Satan himself and his followers were made by God and they are God's properties.
Whichever way anyone dies is not a loss to God. He own everything whether dead or alive.
If u do not know that God exist, you will get to know when you die.

All you've written is total and absolute bullsh*t.
There are historical records describing hercules, zeus and pegasus does it mean they existed?? There are even more records of oddeseus and his oddyssey where he spoke to poseidon (sea god), saw a one eyed cyclops, passed through hades to see ghosts e.t.c than there are of jesus. . .does that make oddeseus' story real??


The only historical record of a jesus is the lying bible, fabricated by  deluded men.
Mind you, this jesus character might have existed but his so called walking on water, turning water into wine, ressurection and ascension are all exagerrated bull crap.
It's exactly the same way ancient civilisations attribute supernatural characteristics to ordinary men or warriors and elevate them as gods or sons of god. Achilles is a pretty good example

Yes

Kunbee:

Yes

can you proove it ?

Besides are you the fine garl on the pics of your profile ?

[size=13pt]Rubbish! [/size]

Tudor:
You wrote like an ignorant person. Go to google and search about Jesus Christ. Do not read what the Bible says- go and read about history of Roman empire, and record of other historians. I am not arguing with you about ur believe on the claim made by Jesus Christ or his followers, but the fact that you are liking him to some mythological personalities like you wrote in your thread. It is a manifestation of utter ignorance to claim Jesus Christ never walked on this earth like you and me.

My thread may appear bulish- but I do not intend to be so. I get upset when people manifest deep level of ignarance on this website or trying to deny something just because they do not believe in it. Believe is different from historical fact. Anyone that contest historical facts is a very stupid person. He could as well deny he ever had a great, great grandparents.

Duroe:

Tudor:
You wrote like an ignorant person. Go to google and search about Jesus Christ. Do not read what the Bible says- go and read about history of Roman empire, and record of other historians. I am not arguing with you about ur believe on the claim made by Jesus Christ or his followers, but the fact that you are liking him to some mythological personalities like you wrote in your thread. It is a manifestation of utter ignorance to claim Jesus Christ never walked on this earth like you and me.

Google Zeus, Apollos, hercules and poseidon. You'd see historical records too.

The truth my guy is historical records are rarely accurate, most times they're biased and largely exaggerated!
Just like the story of jesus. Stop displaying ignorance!