@Beaf
Thank you for taking time out to educate these people. We bought first generation F-7 chinese planes which are upgraded versions of the MiG 21s - decades old technology and y'all expect savvy folk to be thrilled.

As i said before, na local champion we be.

lordangers:

The F-7 was made in 1966 and was different (not completely) but it was defiantly better if only slightly. And why would the likes of China, Pakistan and Egypt all be using them

The chinese use them as a mass deterrent. They know the F-7 is drastically inferior to any modern fighter, but that disadvantage is really reduced because the chinese can put swarms of them in the air at a time.

To put things in perspective, a handful of Egyptian Air Force F-16s will comfortably destroy most of our chinese F-7s in minutes.

Fun fact: the egyptian air force has and can use Harpoon Anti-Ship missiles. What were you saying about the NNS Aradu again?

The Nigerian Air Force operates the customised F-7Ni. The 'Ni' qualifies it as a Nigerian version of the original F-7.

Defence acquisition is based and interplay of threat assessment, threat evaluation, foreign policy, geopolitical posture and economic standing.

texazzpete:

@Beaf
The chinese use them as a mass deterrent. They know the F-7 is drastically inferior to any modern fighter, but that disadvantage is really reduced because the chinese can put swarms of them in the air at a time.

To put things in perspective, a handful of Egyptian Air Force F-16s will comfortably destroy most of our chinese F-7s in minutes.

Fun fact: the egyptian air force has and can use Harpoon Anti-Ship missiles. What were you saying about the NNS Aradu again?

Wow thnx for the info on China. I see what your saying though I am struggling to see why they would keep upgrading the F-7 and buying newer models just to deter when they can keep the numbers of the old ones instead of throwing them out.
And as for the F-16's, may be they will and they will no doubt have air superiority but are they capable of hitting Nigeria? Does Egypt want to hit us? Like Blemhein said:
"Defence acquisition is based and interplay of threat assessment, threat evaluation, foreign policy, geopolitical posture and economic standing."
Also about the fun fact, I dont see why you included it? I mean Nigeria has Otoman missiles which can also take out Egyptian war ships. The Otoman has been known to penetrate even modern US ships defences in test runs and since the Egptians are using old secound-hand ones, Were you getting that idea of when we were talking about the Aradu and it was close to when I mentioned Nigeria COULDNT take on Egypt if they were right next to each other?

Beaf:

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy the arguments I have heard on this page. They are all rather weak.
The MIG-21 is DNA of the F-7, so as they say "garbage in, garbage out"; what we have is the "advanced version" of a bad plane.

If cost is our problem, why not go for mordern but very low cost planes like the HAL Tejas from India or JF-17 from Pakistan?
The JF-17 is judged to be equivalent or even better than the F-16. Nigeria made enquiries about the JF-17, so why didn't we just go through with it and purchase some decent aircraft?

Yes,me myself i dont like them (F-7) i wish Su-30s were bought even though they are more expensive
And like i said it is an advanced verion of the advanced version of the MiG-21 fishbed (advanced version of the normal F-7)
Now to use your words "I'm sorry, but I just don't buy the arguments I have heard on this page. They are all rather weak.
The MIG-21 is DNA of the F-7, so as they say "garbage in, garbage out"; what we have is the "advanced version" of a bad plane."
Let me give you an example,the normal mercedes CLK was taken by AMG and customized by marely changing the engine,suspension and made LITTLE body adjustments,brakes e.t.c they bumped the horsepower by almost 120 they increased the performance and made the car better and jemery clarkson of BBC's top gear had this to say about the car "a monster" lets take a house as an example again get a house with a bad interior and give some plenty $$$$$$ to a world renowned team of architecture,designers e.t.c to refurbish the interior alone and when you come back you would swear you never set your eyes on the said house, now am saying this to illustrate that what you said (i quoted) is false and an outdated thing can be modified into a better one(not saying F-7 is modern)
I hope in the future this plane would be used as an interceptor or be placed in an aircraft carrier if we get one

The F-7Ni as far as I am aware is a stop gap measure to our air defense. I do not believe it will be our primary long term air defense aircraft. Having said that, the aircraft is suitable for the area in which it will operate (West Africa) should it come to that.
And only a very insane fool will compare the Nigerian military with that of the USA. No military force on earth can be compared to that of the U.S in terms of conventional warfare.

I think both sides of this argument are true to an extent and also wrong in some considerations. The Chengdu F-7 has been used in joint exercises between US and Indian airforces recently and actually outperformed the F-16 in mock dog-fights. It has a considerably better power to weight ratio than the F-16 and thus a better climb rate and angle of attack capability. But before we jubilate for the F-7, one must consider that the last time any close quarters dog-fighting happened was in the 70s during the Isreali vs Arab nations conflicts, and the Indo-Pakistan war, and also a few cases during the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq war. Dog fighting is no longer done at close quarters, with the development of medium-long range missiles, the era of dog fights has effectively come to an end. Almost every ace pilot from the late 70s till this day scored their combat kills from distances of over a kilometre away from their target, some as far as 7km. Manoeuvrability is not nearly as important as advanced detection and tracking avionics. The F-7 has been modified to integrate with modern armaments of Soviet and also Western manufacture like the Soviet Vympel R-33 which can be fired at targets over 100km away, but is still equipped with a rather limited Radar which does not have the range of the 4.5 to 5th generation fighters. The Italian made Grifo MG radar of the F-7 can detect targets at 125km away but can only establish a lock at 35km - 40km, while the SU-30 and MIG-29 are equipped with Tikhomirov NIIP Irbis E radar with 350km - 400km detection and 90km lock on. Dog fights of this age involve BVR (Beyond Visual Range) attcks with medium to long range missiles. The F-7 would be slaughtered in a proper encounter with more modern fighters. NUmbers dont always account for much now adays, history has proven this: During the Arab-Isreali conflicts, the Isreali air forces were vastly out numbered by the Arab coalition but still established air supremacy through superior pilot skill and better aircraft, the Iraqi airforce was the 2nd largest in the world when the Gulf War started but were no match for the US and allied airforces of much smaller number.
As an aircraft enthusiast and being a Nigerian, it pains me that this is the best our Military brass can come up with to defend our Nation. As for those arguing about the F-7 meeting our present needs, you cannot predict the political and diplomatic atmosphere of the future, today's ally can very well become tomorrow's enemy. Anything can cause a conflict between us and any nation in the world even the U.S.

[size=13pt]NAF 931 (ATR 42 MPA) at Farnborough International Airshow 2010.[/size]

@M.O.B. Nice Pictures man, this is really cool. it's one of the few aircraft in our Airforce that i'm proud to see.

[size=14pt]Here is my Tribute to The Nigerian Armed Forces[/size]

[flash=684,385]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FHNIJEwS00?fs=1&hl=en_US[/flash]

There is no Question about the bravery of our troops but I have a question. When will we begin to use modern equipment. The only modern thing I saw in these pictures are our artillery trucks other than that everything is outdated. Even our planes MiGs are planes of the past and we need new fighter planes and bombers. If we maintained close relations with the U.S. maybe we could get some F16s.

We need modern cruisers, heavy tanks, if we had enough money we could have bought an aircraft carrier. Im tired of seeing MiG 21s everywhere (MiG21s are over 40 years old).
Body armorf will also save hundreds of thousands of lives and by looking at this picture i see nothing like that.
Another thing I dislike seeing is our troops packing themselves and riding in pickup trucks that are loaded to the limit. You will never see professional armies like that of Britain or the Untied States doing that. Other than that Good Luck army  

odumchi:

There is no Question about the bravery of our troops but I have a question. When will we begin to use modern equipment. The only modern thing I saw in these pictures are our artillery trucks other than that everything is outdated. Even our planes MiGs are planes of the past and we need new fighter planes and bombers. If we maintained close relations with the U.S. maybe we could get some F16s.

We need modern cruisers, heavy tanks, if we had enough money we could have bought an aircraft carrier. Im tired of seeing MiG 21s everywhere (MiG21s are over 40 years old).
Body armorf will also save hundreds of thousands of lives and by looking at this picture i see nothing like that.
Another thing I dislike seeing is our troops packing themselves and riding in pickup trucks that are loaded to the limit. You will never see professional armies like that of Britain or the Untied States doing that. Other than that Good Luck army  

lol bros. I've said something like that way back at the beginning of this thread.

Onlytruth:

lol bros. I've said something like that way back at the beginning of this thread.

o lol, ill look at it then. Do you know the page?

odumchi:

o lol, ill look at it then. Do you know the page?

See pages 9, 10 and 11. My views on this are very clear.

odumchi:

There is no Question about the bravery of our troops but I have a question. When will we begin to use modern equipment. The only modern thing I saw in these pictures are our artillery trucks other than that everything is outdated. Even our planes MiGs are planes of the past and we need new fighter planes and bombers. If we maintained close relations with the U.S. maybe we could get some F16s.

We need modern cruisers, heavy tanks, if we had enough money we could have bought an aircraft carrier. Im tired of seeing MiG 21s everywhere (MiG21s are over 40 years old).
Body armorf will also save hundreds of thousands of lives and by looking at this picture i see nothing like that.
Another thing I dislike seeing is our troops packing themselves and riding in pickup trucks that are loaded to the limit. You will never see professional armies like that of Britain or the Untied States doing that. Other than that Good Luck army  

It would be best if we buy 12 Eurofighter Typhoon (or more ) though Very Expensive it is just behind the raptor at the moment and slightly better than the fulcrum or flanker
Then we place an order for PAK-FA when the russians are done building it and we give the typhoons to the navy and out it on an aircraft carrier , F-16, is being replaced with the JSF, but we have to make sure we get the PAK-FA as the JSF is below it

We need decent war planes not multi million dollar planes whdn we cannot even feed half our people

xterra2:

It would be best if we buy 12 Eurofighter Typhoon (or more ) though Very Expensive it is just behind the raptor at the moment and slightly better than the fulcrum or flanker
Then we place an order for PAK-FA when the russians are done building it and we give the typhoons to the navy and out it on an aircraft carrier , F-16, is being replaced with the JSF, but we have to make sure we get the PAK-FA as the JSF is below it

Lol you want Typhoon's? Why? It's kind of a kick in the teeth to have people asking for aid then their governments spending millions on some jet fighters that bear no reality of the threats facing Nigeria now. You then want the PAK-FA?! I'm going to throw up with these sort of comments. 5th generation!!! You getting that? 5TH GERNERATION = BILLIONS!!! My god! Someone really needs to take a look at the world with a more serious view. Now I could have said a lot more shit then that about your thoughts but something tells me it's not going to get through to you. Remind me again why you need an aircraft carrier?
Heres what, you can give away all your money, everything you own, go live on the street and be the first to declare you gave your money to a "good cause" (the military stuff). Then say whether you are so eager for weapons. Give me one example of a formiddiable enemy operating anywhere near Nigeria? Or even one that has 4th generation+ fighter craft in west Africa (Excluding Algeria/Morroco who would not be able to project their forces to Nigeria)?

Anyway, anyone got any more pics to cheer me up

odumchi:

There is no Question about the bravery of our troops but I have a question. When will we begin to use modern equipment. The only modern thing I saw in these pictures are our artillery trucks other than that everything is outdated. Even our planes MiGs are planes of the past and we need new fighter planes and bombers. If we maintained close relations with the U.S. maybe we could get some F16s.

We need modern cruisers, heavy tanks, if we had enough money we could have bought an aircraft carrier. Im tired of seeing MiG 21s everywhere (MiG21s are over 40 years old).
Body armorf will also save hundreds of thousands of lives and by looking at this picture i see nothing like that.
Another thing I dislike seeing is our troops packing themselves and riding in pickup trucks that are loaded to the limit. You will never see professional armies like that of Britain or the Untied States doing that. Other than that Good Luck army

1. Bombers are for strategical use, multirole fighters hit tactical ground targets
2. Only 5 countries have cruisers, they are expensive and in your case, an unessasery toy
3. Heavy tanks are no longer used, MBT's (which you have plenty) are primiry along with light tanks for some.
4. Air-craft carriers are not needed by you, get that straight. You can transport planes by re-assembling them at bases in the foreign area, not even China has one. Your navy has put forward a serious request it seems to your money men for new nvy equipment like LPD's which if they go through, will create jobs and allow you to transfer armour on peace-keeping missions.
5. You dont lose 100s of thousands of men. I dont think Nigerias lost more then 50,000 men in its entire military history as a nation. Also Nigerian troops have body armour.
6. Britain uses WMIK's, these are pretty much jeeps with machine guns. Similar to what you described as what would never be seen. And they are used not only in N.Ireland but also in Afghanistan. Infact the UK used them to great effect in WW2 in N.Africa. I dont know about the US but they have a GDP above 14 trillion. Nigeria is still in the billion catergory.

You see most of the stuff you demanded was useless. Why dont any of you give explanations as to why you need this stuff? Like Ethiopia has to worry about Eritrean build-up so they need high-tech weaponry. Can Nigeria claim that as well? Oh yes I hear Benins quite the menace (LOL)

lordangers:

Lol you want Typhoon's? Why? It's kind of a kick in the teeth to have people asking for aid then their governments spending millions on some jet fighters that bear no reality of the threats facing Nigeria now. You then want the PAK-FA?! I'm going to throw up with these sort of comments. 5th generation!!! You getting that? 5TH GERNERATION = BILLIONS!!! My god! Someone really needs to take a look at the world with a more serious view. Now I could have said a lot more poo then that about your thoughts but something tells me it's not going to get through to you. Remind me again why you need an aircraft carrier?
Heres what, you can give away all your money, everything you own, go live on the street and be the first to declare you gave your money to a "good cause" (the military stuff). Then say whether you are so eager for weapons. Give me one example of a formiddiable enemy operating anywhere near Nigeria? Or even one that has 4th generation+ fighter craft in west Africa (Excluding Algeria/Morroco who would not be able to project their forces to Nigeria)?

Anyway, anyone got any more pics to cheer me up

Okay yeah infact let the government not buy typhoons they are expensive if we can lease Flankers it would be better some europeans countries dont have a single fighter jet of theirs or some lease jets
Even buying any fighter jet not 5th gen is kinda a waste of money (not exactly if its on an aircraft carrier)
Let us just buy 100 PAK-FA for $1billion common seems like a little money to Nigeria
IF we are to join the 20 topmost ecocomies by 2020 ( to me seems achievable) we need a formidable military with PAK FA it is a good investment as they only jet matchable to is is the Raptor not even the JSF is better than it (from what iv read from 20 different websites )
With that no country can talk shit to nigetia knowing 100 stealt aircraft in its inventory, just as we now they said camerooun wants obudu right ,
PS we need to invade and collect bakassi back.nigeria as a great country needs to be military strong even uganda wants 6 flankers as useless as they are to do what ?
And part of having a good military we need an aircraft carrier

xterra2:

Okay yeah infact let the government not buy typhoons they are expensive if we can lease Flankers it would be better some europeans countries dont have a single fighter jet of theirs or some lease jets
Even buying any fighter jet not 5th gen is kinda a waste of money (not exactly if its on an aircraft carrier)
Let us just buy 100 PAK-FA for $1billion common seems like a little money to Nigeria
IF we are to join the 20 topmost ecocomies by 2020 ( to me seems achievable) we need a formidable military with PAK FA it is a good investment as they only jet matchable to is is the Raptor not even the JSF is better than it (from what iv read from 20 different websites )
With that no country can talk poo to nigetia knowing 100 stealt aircraft in its inventory, just as we now they said camerooun wants obudu right ,
PS we need to invade and collect bakassi back.nigeria as a great country needs to be military strong even uganda wants 6 flankers as useless as they are to do what ?
And part of having a good military we need an aircraft carrier

First off some Euro countries dont need permanant jets. Some are too small or have economic probs in the east or are part of allainces such as NATO, CIS or even the EU (has some military jurisdiction for euro countries to protect euro countries). Not to mention Europe has no real threats from military.
Secound, 100 PAK planes are not 1 billion.
If you look at wiki for a general sum (never going to be accurate) then 10 PAK's would make 1 billion. That would not include maintainence and training which would triple that probebly.
Third,Becoming part of the top 20 (which I seriously doubt by 2020) means showing responsibility. Try getting into the top 30 GDP per capita countries before you think you have money to throw around. In other terms feed your people. Buying an air-craft carrier is NOT reponsible at your current economic situation!!!
Finally the Cameroon will not attack you militarily to get the places it desires. It will use the same methods it did to get the first. Peacefully, so tell me a real threat that is on Nigeria's door-step,

PS: Uganda is not getting those planes. The reports appear to be false. They have claimed that they are sending Mig's back to Russia for overhaul. If they were true though, they would be laughed at and treated as a disgrace. To put so much funds (approx 1.6 bill) to pay for those planes when Uganda is struggling to feed it's kids as well, would tarnish their reputation and basically they would be an epic fail. Do you want Nigeria to look like some gun loving piss house? Not even your Military leader back in the 20th centuary did that.

lordangers:

First off some Euro countries dont need permanant jets. Some are too small or have economic probs in the east or are part of allainces such as NATO, CIS or even the EU (has some military jurisdiction for euro countries to protect euro countries). Not to mention Europe has no real threats from military.
Secound, 100 PAK planes are not 1 billion.
If you look at wiki for a general sum (never going to be accurate) then 10 PAK's would make 1 billion. That would not include maintainence and training which would triple that probebly.
Third,Becoming part of the top 20 (which I seriously doubt by 2020) means showing responsibility. Try getting into the top 30 GDP per capita countries before you think you have money to throw around. In other terms feed your people. Buying an air-craft carrier is NOT reponsible at your current economic situation!!!
Finally the Cameroon will not attack you militarily to get the places it desires. It will use the same methods it did to get the first. Peacefully, so tell me a real threat that is on Nigeria's door-step,

PS: Uganda is not getting those planes. The reports appear to be false. They have claimed that they are sending Mig's back to Russia for overhaul. If they were true though, they would be laughed at and treated as a disgrace. To put so much funds (approx 1.6 bill) to pay for those planes when Uganda is struggling to feed it's kids as well, would tarnish their reputation and basically they would be an epic fail. Do you want Nigeria to look like some gun loving piss house? Not even your Military leader back in the 20th centuary did that.

Oops my bad yeah 100 pak fas are not $1 billion
And we are actually ARE going to be in top 20 by 2020
Nigeria dont any threat as of now but as we grow as a nation we get more threats
And about the ugandas it was said russians confirmed the orders os the flankers
Even thought we may not have an any threat we ought to have good hardware to serve as a deterrent

I'm sorry but saying that in the future you will have threats is not sufficent when you are asking your country to cough up billions for unknown threats?
As for the Uganda thing, the Russian press and the producers of the plane have said they sold them some. However Ugandan generals have denied it. Right now it is very confusing. There is no real way of telling.

^
. . .F-16's and Apache's my foot!

Our best jet fighters are based on a plane that came out shortly after WWII (15 Chengdu F-7s from China). Our best attack helicopter is the Hind (Russian, Apache is American).
This is our airforce website. Its packed with assorted junk and planes that look like bicycles, what a disgrace! You can view it here http://www.nigerianairforce.net/Default.aspx

You're just getting the "F's" twisted and promoting our ultra lowtech hand me downs to modern F-16 fighters. . . Serious over promotion! The General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon is from the USA, while the Chengdu F-7 is a Chinese plane based on 1950's and 60's technology (thats the best we have ) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu_J-7

This is an F-16. Where have you ever seen such a plane anywhere near Nigeria?

I'll take the Mi-24/35 attack helo over the AH-64 Apache/Longbow ANYTIME ANYDAY. Reasons:
-Well for one, the Mi-24 is one hell of a beast that packs A LOT of heat compared to the Apache, hence its nick name SATAN'S CHARIOT.
-The Mi-24/35 is far more amoured compared to the apache, thus ensuring the survivability of its crew. For heaven's sake, the helo is also known as the flying tank.
-The Mi-24/35 can also double as a utility helo as it can ferry 7 heavily armed paratroopers or special ops operators safely into hell and back. Pls let me know when Apache can do that.
-The Apache may be festooned with lots of computers compared to the HIND, but everyone, including the Americans, know that the helo is a maintenance-intensive and sensitive helo, thus it spends more time in the workshop than in the air. Imagine if this occurs in the battlefield. it means that the turn-around time for the more practical HIND is far shorter than the Apache, thus enabling the HIND to provide combat air support (CAS) to troops in the frontline.
-

Any moretributes to be made?

compare both AMPHIBIOUS TROOPS, The nigerian Troops looks drowned LOL

lordangers:

Any moretributes to be made?

I expect BEEGLE will be updating his blog with images from the recent indepence day celebrations pretty soon.

Nah, that's where it ends

lordangers:

Any moretributes to be made?

*Hauwa*:

Nah, that's where it ends

Not on your life. . .Nigerian Forces display on Independence day

[flash=640,480]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC4lXQS-2KQ?fs=1&hl=en_US[/flash]

^^

I'm laughing. 

Nigerian special forces look like MEND. 

When they enter the creeks, they will meet people who are similarly kitted, and armed with the same field rifle (AK-47).

I wonder why Nigeria has not been able to design a field sub-machine gun for 40 years.

Biafra was able to design one and used it during the war.

Anytime I see Nigeria military parading AK-47s, I simply dismiss them.

Until I see a Nigerian weapon designed for African operations -rain, mud, sand, dust, rust, and designed to function in support of our best instincts (as Africans, no pun intended), I will remain unimpressed.

If they don't know that there is something known as "empathic design" even in weapons, then, we are still not serious. 

paddy_lo:

Not on your life. . .Nigerian Forces display on Independence day

[flash=640,480]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC4lXQS-2KQ?fs=1&hl=en_US[/flash]

Nice one.

LMAO 

you got to see a real good military dance by us  ever seen a Marine/Army dance? 

I'd like to invite you to Base to see real Airforce do their thing. Next time Blue Angels come around, I will let you know.

good stuff up there sha 

Onlytruth:

^^

I'm laughing.

Nigerian special forces look like MEND.

When they enter the creeks, they will meet people who are similarly kitted, and armed with the same field rifle (AK-47).

I wonder why Nigeria has not been able to design a field sub-machine gun for 40 years.

Biafra was able to design one and used it during the war.

Anytime I see Nigeria military parading AK-47s, I simply dismiss them.

Until I see a Nigerian weapon designed for African operations -rain, mud, sand, dust, rust, and designed to function in support of our best instincts (as Africans, no pun intended), I will remain unimpressed.

If they don't know that there is something known as "empathic design" even in weapons, then, we are still not serious.

The AK-47 can support in all those enviornments you mentioned. As for "African", what do you mean? Whats the difference between you and a Russian? I was actually impressed with the camo and armour the troops were wearing in the parade.