mukina2:

salaam,

someone sent a question to my mail, will email it to you, in a min.

Salams Mukina2 if this was to me i havent seen anything yet .

Hope u well and good?

Lagosboy:

Apologies for the late reply.

Someone could be blessed with some ability to see some things and it is called "True dreams". The prophet said true dreams is 1/40 of prophethood. Having true dreams is one aspect and then blessed with the ability to inteprete them is another blessing. The science of dream intepretation exists in islam and one of the notable classical scholar in that realm was Ibn sireen and his books are still available till today.

Any kind of "prophecy" that falls short of true dreams or natural intuition (in yoruba we call it ifura logun agba) is something else and most likely there is a jinn connection.

The difference between a fortune teller and what i explained above is that a fortune teller delibreately consults to know a specific thing about someone but a true dreamer does not plan it and Allah just chooses to reveal some things of the future to such person. Also, there are some people that walk pass you and start to say somethings about you without planning, this is also handiwork of the jinns and part of fortune telling.

In summary , only God knows the future and even if we dream about something we still have to pray and pesevere to make that dream a reality if it is a good thing as the ultimate power lies with Allah. Also, if someone like a prophet of doom predicts something bad about you ignore it and pray to Allah against any calamity. The rule and guide is to never listen to any fortune teller and if someone wants to predict shut him up and tell him off. If fortune tellers were worth it no marriage would be broken and no one would work.

And God knows best.

Thank you so much.
Salams.

@All,what are u doing to correct the misconceptions within the deen?
What can be done cos we wud be lying If we claim that there are none.In our circle of believing friends how do we help each other esp. those that are going radical and extreme.
Are there structures put in place to handle such issues within the deen?
May God purify my Islam.Amin

ifyalways:

@All,what are u doing to correct the misconceptions within the deen?

  Only rely on very reliable sources. We should Avoid being obsessed with controversial matters especially historical details. Ask your local Imam if you have doubts. I m lucky to have a good local Imam. Also i was taught basic Islamic studies when i was younger. We have a syllabus for it which is approved by a board of scholars. That really helps me to discard misconceptions.
  More importantly Concentrate on basics more, like Salat, Zakat and good manners.  There is enough and more to learn about Salat, Dikr and duas to make us busy for the rest of our lives.

If a friend goes extreme or radical, ask them if they are following the 5 pillars of Islam first. Do they read the Quran frequently? Do they perform Salath 5 times daily? Ask them to get the basics perfected first.

May God purify my Islam.

Ameen.
And our Islam too.
Ameen.

azharuddin:

  Only rely on very reliable sources. We should Avoid being obsessed with controversial matters especially historical details. Ask your local Imam if you have doubts. I m lucky to have a good local Imam. Also i was taught basic Islamic studies when i was younger. We have a syllabus for it which is approved by a board of scholars. That really helps me to discard misconceptions.
  More importantly Concentrate on basics more, like Salat, Zakat and good manners.  There is enough and more to learn about Salat, Dikr and duas to make us busy for the rest of our lives.

If a friend goes extreme or radical, ask them if they are following the 5 pillars of Islam first. Do they read the Quran frequently? Do they perform Salath 5 times daily? Ask them to get the basics perfected first.
Ameen.
And our Islam too.
Ameen.

Do you think that avoiding matters works?Anyway,it works sometimes for online forums eg Nld but im more concerned abt the real life,how do you call to order a sis/bro that is gradually going radical especially when it seems that they have a supposed knowledgeable person encouraging/guiding/directing them
@Bolded,Yes i guess that should work.
Im looking forward to a situation whereby we wud have a lone strong voice that wud be able to unequivocally at all times distance Islam from the various vices that have creeped into the deen.Such bodies might be existing already,but i think we need to put in more effort . . . . Case study is Northern Nigeria.

ifyalways:

Do you think that avoiding matters works?Anyway,it works sometimes for online forums eg Nld but im more concerned abt the real life,how do you call to order a sis/bro that is gradually going radical especially when it seems that they have a supposed knowledgeable person encouraging/guiding/directing them  

this is the big problem my sis.
If there is no knowledgeable person directing/goading them, then you have muslims who will know whats right and will deliberately stand  by the person instead of correcting them, for fear of losing face .
that is why we have lots of religious fights in some African countries like northern Nigeria, i live in a predominately muslim country but we have had none of this type because people tell you when you are wrong, they do not act like hypocrites so as not to lose face.

Even online here, instead of addressing the issues and set things right, some will deliberately avoid the issue and talk of something else. we have seen it lots of times.
its is very very sad.

ifyalways:

@All,what are u doing to correct the misconceptions within the deen?
What can be done cos we wud be lying If we claim that there are none.In our circle of believing friends how do we help each other esp. those that are going radical and extreme.
Are there structures put in place to handle such issues within the deen?
May God purify my Islam.Amin

Radicalism IMO is a relative term and depends on the context of discussion. Extremism is of various types and kind and i will appreciate if you define the kind of extremism you mean. Rejection of hadith in its entirety IMO is one form of extremism, castigating all non muslims and caalling for their head is another form of extremism.

Some muslims that stand for the Palestinian cause by going on the Turkish Flotila were tagged as radicals by non muslims and people who blow themselves up are also termed as radicals. These two groups are different but termed as radicals.

Ify , your query is very general and wide perhaps if you redefine it it would help me insha Allah to know where to start from.

And God knows best

^
did you get my mail?

Lagosboy:

Radicalism IMO is a relative term and depends on the context of discussion. Extremism is of various types and kind and i will appreciate if you define the kind of extremism you mean. Rejection of hadith in its entirety IMO is one form of extremism, castigating all non muslims and caalling for their head is another form of extremism.

Some muslims that stand for the Palestinian cause by going on the Turkish Flotila were tagged as radicals by non muslims and people who blow themselves up are also termed as radicals. These two groups are different but termed as radicals.

Ify , your query is very general and wide perhaps if you redefine it it would help me insha Allah to know where to start from.

And God knows best

LB,Salams,hope u gud?.
Let me give examples that are not far -fetched :
The killings and riots in Jos,in as much as it has political undertones but it has been generally linked to Islam,what have our leaders(Imans) done and are doing?Have they ever bothered to come out and speak boldly to the youth in the area?Most of the Youth are illiterates and hungry but Yet they, it seems,listen and obey not just the man with money but also the religious leaders,what are our Imans up there doing?Keeping mute or looking the other way rather than caution and let them know that Islam does not encourage slaughtering women and kids.
We get to hear abt this religious leaders when say a woman is caught for adultery and sentenced to death,etc ,their decisions are order,obeyed without questions even when its against the Prophets(Pbuh) teaching but when its issues of violence,we don't hear nada from them.  

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-373844.32.html
Some of the replies at the above thread made me cringe.

We need a change,a revolution within the deen.IMO

Lets leave out the castigating of Muslims by non-muslims for now . . .

mukina2:

this is the big problem my sis.
If there is no knowledgeable  person directing/goading them, then you have muslims who will know whats right and will deliberately stand  by the person instead of correcting them, for fear of losing face .
that is why we have lots of religious fights in some African countries like northern Nigeria, i live in a predominately muslim country but we have had none of this type because people tell you when you are wrong, they do not act like hypocrites so as not to lose face.

Even online here, instead of addressing the issues and set things right, some will deliberately avoid the issue and talk of something else. we have seen it lots of times.
its is very very sad.

Gbam

ifyalways:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-373844.32.html
Some of the replies at the above thread made me cringe.

We need a change,a revolution within the deen.IMO

Lets leave out the castigating of Muslims by non-muslims for now . . .

i thought i was the only one who felt the same. Its sad very very sad

thing is most of us do not want to address the issues within ourselves, we think by castigating non muslims it is well.

@lagosboy, jazakumullahu khairan

that is one of the challenges we have today. virtually everything particularly as it affect muslims and islam is taken from the general perpective. it is important to be specific. not just about the action but the person and the circumstance surrounding the event. That is the sunnah of the prophet (SAW)

mukina, i do not agree that we do not want to address these issues within ourselves. we do. obviously not on a forum like NL cos for sure it would be derailed

I was replying to ify's statement on " Lets leave out the castigating of Muslims by non-muslims for now . . ."

if we fight amongst ourselves , what message is that sending to non muslims?

I remember long ago ,2006/07 this board was one of unity and peace, but then it has gotten to a stage that even the old muslim members do not want to be part of this section anymore.

mukina2:

^
did you get my mail?

Yes i got your mail and would Insha Allah reply u in a bit

well, i will advise that we remain steadfast and try as much as we can to educate ourselves on the dictates of the deen. knowledge, that is what is missing. and unfortunately some of us are not humble enough to want to listen to others.

Allah has made his religion beautiful and the prophet has taught it in a beautiful way. all we have to do is to just radiate the beauty.

we have to continue to strive and not give up. i pray that Allah guides us all.

The muslim ummah is made up of the most diverse bunch of people in the world, muslims first of all need to start seeing themselves as brothers & sisters. There are two kinds of extremes in the world now,

muslims who for some reason believe they are the best, regard fellow muslims as kufrs and therefore attacks the innocent in the name of fighting a war.

Non-muslims who believe that Islam must be erased from the face of the earth,

We have to remember that as muslims, we must remain the middle nation, Allah(SWT) says in the Quran

Surah 2.
143. Thus We have appointed you a middle nation, that ye may be witnesses against mankind. and that the messenger
may be a witness against you. And We appointed the qiblah which ye formerly observed only that We might know him
who followeth the messenger, from him who turneth on his heels. In truth it was a hard (test) save for those whom Allah
guided. But it was not Allah's purpose that your faith should be in vain, for Allah is full of pity, Merciful toward
mankind.

The prophet(SAW) warned us about going to extremes in our religion (Bukhari)

May Allah(SWT) guide us to the right path and help us perfect our deen.

Salam

ifyalways:

LB,Salams,hope u gud?.
Let me give examples that are not far -fetched :
The killings and riots in Jos,in as much as it has political undertones but it has been generally linked to Islam,what have our leaders(Imans) done and are doing?Have they ever bothered to come out and speak boldly to the youth in the area?Most of the Youth are illiterates and hungry but Yet they, it seems,listen and obey not just the man with money but also the religious leaders,what are our Imans up there doing?Keeping mute or looking the other way rather than caution and let them know that Islam does not encourage slaughtering women and kids.
We get to hear abt this religious leaders when say a woman is caught for adultery and sentenced to death,etc ,their decisions are order,obeyed without questions even when its against the Prophets(Pbuh) teaching but when its issues of violence,we don't hear nada from them.  

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-373844.32.html
Some of the replies at the above thread made me cringe.

We need a change,a revolution within the deen.IMO

Lets leave out the castigating of Muslims by non-muslims for now . . .
Gbam

Alihamdulilah my sista i am great!

This issue at hand is a very complex issue and i will try in due course Insha Allah to address some of the specifics. The first problem with regards to the issue of extremism and radicalism is generalisation.

"Palestinaian radicalism" is different from "Pakistan taliban radicalism" which is also different from "Afghani taliban radicalism". The Jos crises is also different from the boko haram crises.

Regarding your exact question about what we muslims are doing to tackle the jos crises, i honestly cannot speak on behalf of the muslim leaders in Jos as i do not know their efforts. However, from my understanding of global issues that affect muslims I am aware of lots of scholars and imams and even the "leader" of nigerian muslims which is the sultan speak and condemn sensless killings in the name of islam. Ify, the jos crises i think is not the best example of what you mean as the economic, tribal and political dynamics of the crises outweighs the religous in a significant manner. The boko haram might be a better example and most nothern scholars themselves castigated the boko harams ideology.

The truth is lack of proper education, islamic and secular is the main problem IMO. There is no alternative to knowledge and with knowledge no idiot can ask you to go burn your neighbours house cos he is a southern christian.


Another example is the Yemeni crises by the houthi rebels, this issues is purely a social exclusion issue which led to revolt but the houthi were tagged extremist and bombed by the hyprcritical Saudi royal govt.


I avoided the thread you posted because i really do not like to discuss issues that will lead no where except insults.

Islam does not need a revolution within as islam is not the problem. The problem is we muslims, part of the problem is economic, part of the problem is tribal, part of the problem is bad leadership part of the problem is external aggression, part of the problems is hypocricy in our midst and it goes on and on.

To move the discussion foward i think we need to address specifics and deal with it according to its circumstances and merit.

I think most of you are of the opinion the major problem faced by Muslims is extremism. Lets try to answer few questions before we draw a conclusion.
1st set of questions.
How many muslims you know personally support extremism?
one, two maybe few more.
How many of them actually done some thing physical/material following the extreme path?
Not many i guess.

Ok now for the 2nd set of questions.
How many of them drink alcohol?
How many of them commit adultery?
How many of them do not pray Salah?
How many of them do not fast on Ramadan?


As for me I ve never come across any muslim personally who even support extremism. But i have come across a many who drink alcohol, etc etc.  So is extremism not an issue? Yes it is certainly a problem, but it is only one of the problems, Definitely not the major problem. If a Muslim commits a extremist act it makes headlines. If a muslim drinks alcohol its never a news. Thats why it catches our attention more.

Is extremism a problem? Certainly it is a problem. Many people are misguided to the path of unnecessary violence. If we personally come across such a person we should certainly discourage that person from getting into trouble.

But the Alarming thing is the end result. 9/11 attacks left almost 4000 people dead. The retaliation by the U.S. left more than 50,000 civilians dead in Afganistan. Some reports show the counts are even more. In Iraq around 500,000 people were killed since 2004. What about Palestine, Its a genocide thats still going on. How about all other Muslims in western countries who are being troubled by others. Denied jobs, denied visa, called a terrorist for growing a beard etc etc. Some idiots commit atrocities in the name of Islam and gives others excuse to deny every other Muslim his/her rights.

Just think real deep for a moment. are Muslims the oppressor or the oppressed?

tbaba1234:


muslims who for some reason believe they are the best, regard fellow muslims as kufrs and therefore attacks the innocent in the name of fighting a war.

This is priceless. you are soo right

mukina2:

i thought i was the only one who felt the same. Its sad very very sad

thing is most of us do not want to address the issues within ourselves, we think by castigating non muslims it is well.

This is very true indeed , muslims have to look inward to solve most of our problems. Most of the enemy aggression that fuels some kind of exremism would never have happened if some muslims were not hypocrites.

An outside enemy cannot kill a person without the internal enemy aiding him/her.

Lagosboy:

This is very true indeed , muslims have to look inward to solve most of our problems. Most of the enemy aggression that fuels some kind of extremism would never have happened if some muslims were not hypocrites.

An outside enemy cannot kill a person without the internal enemy aiding him/her.

sadly true.
we have lots of hypocrites around us.
whatever happened to helping others become better muslims.
whatever happened to foster peace and love amongst ourselves?
why do people prefer to point fingers and pass judgement on others ?
we all die alone and we all answer for whatever we do , good or bad

mukina2:

sadly true.
we have lots of hypocrites around us.
whatever happened to helping others become better muslims.[/b]whatever happened to foster peace and love amongst ourselves?
why do people prefer to point fingers and pass judgement on others ?
we all die alone and we all answer for whatever we do , good or bad

Very important and that is my only mission on this section, to help myself first by learning from others as i am selfish  and then help my other fellow muslims and muslimah not forgeting our sincere non muslim friends on this section like [b]Hymen and others. May Allah assist me in this quest.

What is the point in talking down another muslim while feeling you are the best when only Allah knows our secret lives. The muslim character is very important and a bad character eats up all the good deeds a muslim does which leaves him/her perpetually in negative.

The prophet PBUH was reported to have said "The bankrupt of my ummah is someone who comes on the day of judgement with lots of good actions like hajj,saqaqah,ramadhan,lots of fasting,dhikr etc but eventually is thrown in the fire because he backbites, slanders another muslim, querellsome, swindles others and lots of injustice to others" This is simply due to the fact that when you step on the right of another person , on the day of judgement you shall pay the person back with your good deeds and if you exhaust your good deeds , the other person sins would be put on you which translates to no good deed, the consequence is the punisshment of Allah. This is the justice of Allah.

We seek refuge from Allah from this calamity.

N.B i have replied your mail.

LB,I chose to use Jos crisis cos its closer home.since this crisis started,people not animals are being slaughtered daily,now we have been having our prayers(likewise christians)have we or is there any effort/strucrure put in place to say,after salat,the iman wud have a brief talk with the youths?we have socities asar udeen etc,have they been educating people and discouraging violence or they prefer to keep quiet?In as much as this measures might not stop the madness going on in the north but it can touch/save a soul.when there is sharia to be implented,it starts from the mosque,we suddenly have leaders but when issues like violence erupts,it seems we do nothing.im assuming alot here,perharps there are structures up there but we all need to put in more effort and may Allah(swt) purify our Islam,guide us together with those he have guidedstrenghten us and put us into his care.Amin

ifyalways:

LB,I chose to use Jos crisis cos its closer home.since this crisis started,people not animals are being slaughtered daily,now we have been having our prayers(likewise christians)have we or is there any effort/strucrure put in place to say,after salat,the iman wud have a brief talk with the youths?we have socities asar udeen etc,have they been educating people and discouraging violence or they prefer to keep quiet?In as much as this measures might not stop the madness going on in the north but it can touch/save a soul.when there is sharia to be implented,it starts from the mosque,we suddenly have leaders but when issues like violence erupts,it seems we do nothing.im assuming alot here,perharps there are structures up there but we all need to put in more effort and may Allah(swt) purify our Islam,guide us together with those he have guidedstrenghten us and put us into his care.Amin

NA TODAY?

@LB,as per that thread,i understand why u chose to avoid it but for how do we have to ignore and look the other way?i also know such threads ends in arguments and insults but pls let it NOT stop us from speaking out.You can still poP_in ,say ur piece and refuse to be drawn into mindless arguments.It wont be easy though,may Allah help us.

@Azharuddin,you made great points.However,im looking at Nigeria now. . .im mobile now,i wud look more into the points and questions u raised when im home.salam

ifyalways:

LB,I chose to use Jos crisis cos its closer home.since this crisis started,people not animals are being slaughtered daily,now we have been having our prayers(likewise christians)have we or is there any effort/strucrure put in place to say,after salat,the iman wud have a brief talk with the youths?we have socities asar udeen etc,have they been educating people and discouraging violence or they prefer to keep quiet?In as much as this measures might not stop the madness going on in the north but it can touch/save a soul.when there is sharia to be implented,it starts from the mosque,we suddenly have leaders but when issues like violence erupts,it seems we do nothing.im assuming alot here,perharps there are structures up there but we all need to put in more effort and may Allah(swt) purify our Islam,guide us together with those he have guidedstrenghten us and put us into his care.Amin

Wallahi i feel your pain, i feel your worries and i have them too, we are concerned , we are emotional about the whole thing , we get worried and the solutuion is to return to the book of Allah. I can bet my life that the imams over there do exactly what you have stated but there are more deep rooted sociological problems out there.

Islam works perfectly in an islamic society and islam is whole package when one aspect is abandoned , often times muslims will never reap the whole benefit of being muslims in an islamic society. Jos crises have been traced  to mining which led to competition for the scarce resources in the area, this led to tribal conflicts and then one tribe happens to be muslim and the other happens to be another faith. Most of the youths that go on rampage do cannot even recite the qurán correctly no to talk of understanding the meanings.

The reason i suggested the boko haram as a better example is because they clinge on to "islam" as their source of inspiration and fight the state on that premise. However, they are bunch of deluded folks whose ideology have always been crushed intellectually by the nothern scholars themeselves. However, the poverty and joblessness of the populace is playing a factor up there. . The boko haram were not fighting christians but were fighting muslims of the same tribe as well.

The crux of this matter is that not every apparent violent religious extremism needs to be solved solely by imams or sermons, most of these problems have to be solved in a socio-economic manner blended with islamic teachings. Umar said " Poverty is next to kufr" which means poverty can lead one to extremism of various forms which in trun can push you out of islam. The prophet used to pray that "I seeek refuge from poverty and kufr"

And God knows best.

ifyalways:

@LB,as per that thread,i understand why u chose to avoid it but for how do we have to ignore and look the other way?i also know such threads ends in arguments and insults but pls let it NOT stop us from speaking out.You can still poP_in ,say your piece and refuse to be drawn into mindless arguments.It wont be easy though,may Allah help us.

I agree with you and need to stop being lazy, grow the balls to stand firm and pass my point across. Everyday is a school day, IFY I have learnt another thing from you today

I think we need to strike a balance between the two. First look at ourselves and try to increase our faith and deeds. Then look at others, enjoin good and forbid evil. Then look back at ourselves and make sure we are following what we advice to others. Then again try to bring others to the right path. Then focus back to ourselves. And so on. We should try to balance both, I know its easier said than done. We should try, InshAllah.
Striving in the path of Allah is one of the best deeds.

Regarding the jos crisis, we have to first of all understand the caliber of people carrying out this attacks, the type of Muslims they are. True we cannot fully judge someone else's iman bt we can always make an inference from their various actions. The yan dabbas(Area boys) who drink, smoke do all sorts of non-Islamic things. These people are not truly mindful of what their lord has ordained, they  would even eliminate non-hausa Muslims during the crisis.  The leaders they listen to are their mallams and traditional rulers. These people unfortunately condemn the attacks, yes, but you don't see them actively campaigning and sensitizing theses area boys.

You would not find the people from ansaruddeen or any other such organised islamic groups taking part in this.

xoxo, :

True we cannot fully judge someone else's iman bt we can always make an inference from their various actions. The yan dabbas(Area boys) who drink, smoke do all sorts of non-Islamic things. These people are not truly mindful of what their lord has ordained, they  would even eliminate non-hausa Muslims during the crisis.  The leaders they listen to are their mallams and traditional rulers. These people unfortunately condemn the attacks, yes, but you don't see them actively campaigning and sensitizing theses area boys.

You would not find the people from ansaruddeen or any other such organised islamic groups taking part in this.

Obviously,there are still sane and pure muslims who live by the "book" up there in the north,i guess what we have to do is pray,that they wud have the courage to speak out when need be.May Allah(swt) help us all,purify our deen and make the world embrace peace.amin

^Amin to that Ify. How to get them to give you a listening ear is the main issue, some don't even consider you good enough Muslims. Ironic----right? well its just the sad reality.