Ersan:


What people call it doesnt change what it is. Nor does it change the origin. You said its a type of suit, just like the babban riga or boubou draws inspiration from arabian outfits. In this case the distinction is enough that its carved its own niche. Again, just because the tux worn by others doesnt mean its not of american origin.


We are talking about origin here mind you, you've lost the plot. Why is it so hard for yorubas to accept this simple truth.

The tukulors (again, a branch of fulas) invented the grand bou bou and was the sahelian mode of dressing. Yorubas got it from the hausas just like they did the dashiki. It is no wonder yorubas are one of the few if not the only non sahelian/majority muslim ethnicity that wears the grand boubou.

Infact one of the most famous pictures of awolowo, he was wearing a very famous hausa style babban riga called kwado da linzami (not completely sure about the name).

Again, most of your "agbadas" today still incorporate the eternal knot which everyone knows is a symbol of the hausa people.

My God, you aren't even answering my question..
sigh.

Yoruba men have their own buba and shokoto. The buba is a short sleeved usually for the young men and boys, while the agbada is for the important and the older men. The agbada is an extension of that buba. Danshiki is Hausa though.

The closest copy of the Agbada is what the people of Mali and Senegal wear. I think that is where it may have been copied from.

As for Fulani women wearing Yoruba clothing during weddings, it's because the Yoruba bridal wear is more regal and flashy than the Ankara they normally wear. I don't know why Fulani abandoned their traditional wear, it's very beautiful. Especially the women. Maybe because of Islam. Which is quite sad, they feel the need to cover up.

YonkijiSappo:


My God, you aren't even answering my question..
sigh.

Its neither british nor western its american. Seriously what thr hell is wrong with you lot in this forum? If you read what i wrote you will clearly ser where i mentioned that clearly! Jeez! Its associated with the west, just like the babban riga is associated with the sahel yet its said to have originated from the tukulors.

Yorubas have no stake in this whatsoever to begin with, they are not sahelian and they definitely have nothing to do with tukulors. Its as simple as they adopted this form of clothing from the north. Again this is a general known fact, i dont know why you lot are dead set on changing facts. No offense but this is something i've noticed you lot tend to do especially when it comes to history.

baby124:
Yoruba men have their own buba and shokoto. The buba is a short sleeved usually for the young men and boys, while the agbada is for the important and the older men. The agbada is an extension of that buba. Danshiki is Hausa though.

The closest copy of the Agbada is what the people of Mali and Senegal wear. I think that is where it may have been copied from.

As for Fulani women wearing Yoruba clothing during weddings, it's because the Yoruba bridal wear is more regal and flashy than the Ankara they normally wear. I don't know why Fulani abandoned their traditional wear, it's very beautiful. Especially the women. Maybe because of Islam. Which is quite sad, they feel the need to cover up.

It hasnt been abandoned, some women wear it and some dont. Its a matter of preference. Even the presidents daughter, they took a lot of pictures with different attires, the yoruba one being one of them. Like i said, personally i prefer thr simplicity of the former.

The rest of everything you wrote up there is absolute rubbish BTW.

Theres very little distinction between a malian or sengalese boubou to that the hausa babban riga yet you claim thats the closest thing to your "agbada". Lol So its more plausible you got something from from another region rather than your neighbours that are right above you? it may not be completely hauss likr the earlier person claimed but you without a doubt got that from us.

I swear you people. I cant even... why are you doing this to yourselves?

Ersan:


Different. Dyeing isntunique, that particular clothing is.

Apparently you are unfamiliar with
the history and evolution of agbada.

BabaRamota1980:


Apparently you are unfamiliar with
the history and evolution of agbada.

Enlighten me please...

Ersan:


What people call it doesnt change what it is. Nor does it change the origin. You said its a type of suit, just like the babban riga or boubou draws inspiration from arabian outfits. In this case the distinction is enough that its carved its own niche. Again, just because the tux worn by others doesnt mean its not of american origin.


We are talking about origin here mind you, you've lost the plot. Why is it so hard for yorubas to accept this simple truth.

The tukulors (again, a branch of fulas) invented the grand bou bou and was the sahelian mode of dressing. Yorubas got it from the hausas just like they did the dashiki. It is no wonder yorubas are one of the few if not the only non sahelian/majority muslim ethnicity that wears the grand boubou.

Infact one of the most famous pictures of awolowo, he was wearing a very famous hausa style babban riga called kwado da linzami (not completely sure about the name).

Again, most of your "agbadas" today still incorporate the eternal knot which everyone knows is a symbol of the hausa people.

Eternal knot (Solomon's knot) was adapted in late 50s as a symbol of political North. It was never a part of your culture. You cannot show any picture of anyone or anywhere in Hausaland, pre 1950, with the knot on their garments.

I can show pictures taken of Yorubas in 1905 with the knot on their Agbada.

Prior to internet people used to say Yoruba got Islam from Hausa...but we already busted that myth. You guys thought you were the only Yoruba contact and gateway to the desert and the Arabs but no, you are not.

Ersan:


It hasnt been abandoned, some women wear it and some dont. Its a matter of preference. Even the presidents daughter, they took a lot of pictures with different attires, the yoruba one being one of them. Like i said, personally i prefer thr simplicity of the former.

The rest of everything you wrote up there is absolute rubbish BTW.

Theres very little distinction between a malian or sengalese boubou to that the hausa babban riga yet you claim thats the closest thing to your "agbada". Lol So its more plausible you got something from from another region rather than your neighbours that are right above you? it may not be completely hauss likr the earlier person claimed but you without a doubt got that from us.

I swear you people. I cant even... why are you doing this to yourselves?

Have you seen the Yoruba buba for men? You are the one talking rubbish. Besides the real attire for Hausa's is dashiki. Even the Arabs. Then some kind of cloth covering the face and an open robe. Not a closed one like the Senegalese or the malians. The buba however is different entirely and it is Yoruba. It's mid sleeve with a v-neck and it doesn't fold. It stops at the hip.

Fulani' shave never been known to wear those long flowing robes. Stop talking rubbish. They didn't invent babanriga. Fulani dress more lightly because they roam hot or dry climates. With vegetation, not deserts like the Tuaregs or Malians. Look at all historical pictures of Fulani before you start claiming things that don't exist.

BabaRamota1980:


Eternal knot (Solomon's knot) was adapted in late 50s as a symbol of political North. It was never a part of your culture. You cannot show any picture of anyone or anywhere in Hausaland, pre 1950, with the knot on their garments.

Granted you were using it before we adopted it yeah?

I can show pictures taken of Yorubas in 1905 with the knot on their Agbada.

And we have always been using it, our afinity to that symbol is why the sardauna chose it as our emblem.

But i would love to see these pictures for research purposes. Please endeavour to attach them to your next post.

Prior to internet people used to say Yoruba got Islam from Hausa...but we already busted that myth. You guys thought you were the only Yoruba contact and gateway to the desert and the Arabs but no, you are not.

Yorubas did not get islam from hausas but hausas are responsible for a significant amount of islamization in yoruba land. Most of your trade northwards was with us, slaves, vegetables you never heard of, and we improved your military given how you got your cavalry from us.


What do arabs have to do with this conversation? Stop diverting away from the topic at hand. The role of arabs in the sahel is very minor fyi.

baby124:

Have you seen the Yoruba buba for men? You are the one talking rubbish. Besides the real attire for Hausa's is dashiki. Even the Arabs. Then some kind of cloth covering the face and an open robe. Not a closed one like the Senegalese or the malians. The buba however is different entirely and it is Yoruba. It's mid sleeve with a v-neck and it doesn't fold. It stops at the hip.

Right! Right! Its different, you invented it all on your own, no influence whatsoever, its just a coincedence its extremely similar to the mode of dressing of people situated right above you. Smh

Btw, dan ciki means inners, why would you name your clothing inners when theres not "outters". We dress in many ways, influenced by multiple sahelian ethnicities, and we popularized these forms of dressing through trade and migration. But im curious, if yorubas got the danciki and babban riga from hausas, what were they wearing before that? Do you care to clue in? Maybe you dressed like the edos?

Fulani' shave never been known to wear those long flowing robes. Stop talking rubbish. They didn't invent babanriga. Fulani dress more lightly because they roam hot or dry climates. With vegetation, not deserts like the Tuaregs or Malians. Look at all historical pictures of Fulani before you start claiming things that don't exist.

OMG! Did you even read anything i wrote here? There are different castes of fulas, the tukulors being one of them. Tukulors are farmers and fishermen and are credited with the grand boubou. You truly are a charlatan.

Ersan:

Right! Right! Its different, you invented it all on your own, no influence whatsoever, its just a coincedence its extremely similar to the mode of dressing of people situated right above you. Smh

Btw, dan ciki means inners, why would you name your clothing inners when theres not "outters". We dress in many ways, influenced by multiple sahelian ethnicities, and we popularized these forms of dressing through trade and migration. But im curious, if yorubas got the danciki and babban riga from hausas, what were they wearing before that? Do you care to clue in? Maybe you dressed like the edos?



OMG! Did you even read anything i wrote here? There are different castes of fulas, the tukulors being one of them. Tukulors are farmers and fishermen and are credited with the grand boubou. You truly are a charlatan.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/e2/f0/b1/e2f0b189ed2117fe5892f9311d371160.jpg

That is the open robes with dashiki worn by northerners. Even the emir wears the open robes today. Similar to how the Arab's dress. The only people who wore similar robes to Yoruba's were malians. Fulani did not wear danshiki or babanriga/ agbada until recently. The only people that came close were Hausa's.

Saudi Prince Robes:
https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/r960-e9768609d43be8210ee00814cfd0b66e.jpg

Emir Sanusi Today:
http://thestreetjournal.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/EMIR-OF-KANO-VISIT-PRESIDENT-JONATHAN.jpg


Yoruba men had their Buba's and Agbada's. There are pictures of king's way back wearing their Agbada's in aso oke form.

baby124:


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/e2/f0/b1/e2f0b189ed2117fe5892f9311d371160.jpg

That is the open robes with dashiki worn by northerners. Even the emir wears the open robes today. Similar to how the Arab's dress. The only people who wore similar robes to Yoruba's were malians. Fulani did not wear danshiki or babanriga/ agbada until recently. The only people that came close were Hausa's.

Saudi Prince Robes:
https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/r960-e9768609d43be8210ee00814cfd0b66e.jpg

Emir Sanusi Today:
http://thestreetjournal.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/EMIR-OF-KANO-VISIT-PRESIDENT-JONATHAN.jpg

In which world are those open robes? The picture quality is bad but those are clearly boubous. Even if they were open robes i told you, we have been influenced by and influenced many, it doesnt prove anything.

About what you said about fulas, just google tukulor people, the spelling varies but im sure you'll find them. What do you mean they never wore babban riga when they invented it?

Ersan:


In which world are those open robes? The picture quality is bad but those are clearly boubous. Even if they were open robes i told you, we have been influenced by and influenced many, it doesnt prove anything.

About what you said about fulas, just google tukulor people, the spelling varies but im sure you'll find them. What do you mean they never wore babban riga when they invented it?

Wearing the Danshiki inside of an agbada is a northern influence for Yoruba's, agreed. But not the agbada. This is Yoruba every day traditional wear for men:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/39/47/ff/3947ff7188485dd01aeae79deec427a1.jpg

Like I said earlier, agbada was probably worn mostly by the older and richer people, obviously because it's More cloth... but they did not wear an inner cloth probably because of the weather. Note the buba is short- sleeve, waist length and does not fold. There is no inner cloth either.

Babanriga is a Hausa wear, not Fulani.

This is Ogedengbe during the reign of tukulor empire which was 1860-1890. Ogedengbe fought wars between 1877-1892

http://ogedengbe.com/mediac/400_0/media/Ekitiparapo~Army.jpg

This is how Yoruba commoners dressed.

The old agbada

baby124:


Wearing the Danshiki inside of an agbada is a northern influence for Yoruba's, agreed. But not the agbada. This is Yoruba every day traditional wear for men:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/39/47/ff/3947ff7188485dd01aeae79deec427a1.jpg

Like I said earlier, agbada was probably worn mostly by the older and richer people, obviously because it's More cloth... but they did not wear an inner cloth probably because of the weather. Note the buba is short- sleeve, waist length and does not fold. There is no inner cloth either.

Babanriga is a Hausa wear, not Fulani.

Dan ciki isnt worn inside of an agbada. You dont know what you are saying.

As to the last part of your statement, Did you read on the tukulors like i recommended? Tukulors are fulas, tukulors invented the babban riga. Please read before you post.

baby124:
This is Ogedengbe during the reign of tukulor empire which was 1860-1890. Ogedengbe fought wars between 1877-1892

http://ogedengbe.com/mediac/400_0/media/Ekitiparapo~Army.jpg

This is how Yoruba commoners dressed.

The old agbada

If this is what your claiming, the waist long outfit in those pictures then fine, you can have it.

But the long flowing robe you lot call agbada today is without a doubt gotten fromthe north. Simple!

Something i picked from a random site. Its worth reading. http://www.encyclopedia.com/fashion/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/agbada-0

Baby124

Ersan:


Dan ciki isnt worn inside of an agbada. You dont know what you are saying.

As to the last part of your statement, Did you read on the tukulors like i recommended? Tukulors are fulas, tukulors invented the babban riga. Please read before you post.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/0f/3d/35/0f3d35e9acb5b5f193d0c0dd4a2d78dc.jpg

That's the Yoruba agbada.

What's that long sleeve long shirt and trouser called again? The one that has the look of Arab long gown. That's what I meant

By the way, there is already a topic on this on NL. No need arguing. It even showed Fulani and Hausa naked while Yorubas wore their clothing. Who knows...

https://www.nairaland.com/1515213/what-did-yoruba-men-wear

Ersan:
Baby124

It's highly unlikely that Awolowo is wearing a nothern agbada. If you know Nigeria well, you will know that the Yoruba's are very skilled tailors. Especially the men and when it comes to embroidery they are very good. Yoruba Agbada's could be heavily embroidered, even the buba's. So that design is not proof that it was sewn by a northerner.

For example:
This is the traditional Yoruba agbada. You see how heavily embroidered? The aso oke is also hand woven. This goes back to agbada being worn mostly by the wealthy. Though sure people could make similar styles from lesser clothing

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/Olusegun_Obasanjo_and_Jimmy_Carter-03.jpg

baby124:
By the way, there is already a topic on this on NL. No need arguing. It even showed Fulani and Hausa naked while Yorubas wore their clothing. Who knows...

https://www.nairaland.com/1515213/what-did-yoruba-men-wear

I have noticed we tend to drop out of arguments early on nairaland and it seems it tends to misinform people about our motivation. Ethnic bickering isnt normally our cup of tea but like i said it has led to people being misinformed.


Its laughable because the so called unclad hausas in that picture were infact not. They probably arent even from the north. If only for religion we have never been known to be unclad at any point of our documented history. Same cant be said for others...

Ersan:


I have noticed we tend to drop out of arguments early on nairaland and it seems it tends to misinform people about out motivation. Ethnic bickering isnt normally our cup of tea but like i said it has led to people being misinformed.


Its laughable because the so called unclad hausas in that picture were infact not. They probably arent even from the north. If only for religion we have never been known to be unclad at any point of our documented history.

I have seen Fulani's in the 1800 who were naked too. It's not so far fetched you know.

baby124:

I have seen Fulani's in the 1800 who were naked too. It's not so far fetched you know.

Those arent fulanis Godammit! Loool! The head gear and surroundings should tell you. For Gods sake Rural fulas have never lived in clay houses. Like i said, the fact that they bowed out early is has led to a lot of false information being spread.

Ersan:



Its neither british nor western its american. Seriously what thr hell is wrong with you lot in this forum? If you read what i wrote you will clearly ser where i mentioned that clearly! Jeez! Its associated with the west, just like the babban riga is associated with the sahel yet its said to have originated from the tukulors.

Yorubas have no stake in this whatsoever to begin with, they are not sahelian and they definitely have nothing to do with tukulors. Its as simple as they adopted this form of clothing from the north. Again this is a general known fact, i dont know why you lot are dead set on changing facts. No offense but this is something i've noticed you lot tend to do especially when it comes to history.

Its neither British nor western?
Did you even read my reply? The Tux is a form of a suit, and the origin of the Suit is actually from the British royal courts. Today the Suit is a symbol of WESTERN Bureaucracy, diplomacy and blue collar engagement, not just British or English.
Now you see my point.

Btw... Why did you say the Tuxedo is American when it is basically a suit?
Yorubas have no stake in your boubou from Senegal and Mauritania maybe, but we have a stake in our own Agbada, which we have in fact introduced to other groups such as the Fon and the Edo.
I don't know why you have this perception that only Sahelian groups can wear long flowing robes..lol wrong.

There are groups in Liberia, Sierra Leone in forest regions etc that wear forms of the long flowing robe known as Agbada, Babban riga, Grand boubou, Ngalpellwol, etc.... whose ultimate origins would even have to go further back to North African berbers and not even your Hausa sahel.

baby124:


It's highly unlikely that Awolowo is wearing a nothern agbada. If you know Nigeria well, you will know that the Yoruba's are very skilled tailors. Especially the men and when it comes to embroidery they are very good. Yoruba Agbada's could be heavily embroidered, even the buba's. So that design is not proof that it was sewn by a northerner.

For example:
This is the traditional Yoruba agbada. You see how heavily embroidered? The aso oke is also hand woven. This goes back to agbada being worn mostly by the wealthy. Though sure people could make similar styles from lesser clothing

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/Olusegun_Obasanjo_and_Jimmy_Carter-03.jpg

Dont talk to me about skill. As subjective as that topic is if you dont know what other tailors are capable of dont claim superiority on that topic.

Btw, everything from the horses gear to their robes and turban are hand made. Dont talk to me about skills.

As to embroidery, you should check the embroidery of kings and upper class people. You dont see it often because where a yoruba man has one or two agbadas for ocassions a hausa man solely wears this and heavy embroideries are expensive. Sometimes its just due to preference and comfort.

These are some of the earliest Agbada forms Yorubas wore.
Does that even look like a babban-riga to you?

baby124:

I have seen Fulani's in the 1800 who were naked too. It's not so far fetched you know.

Even in this 2017 there are still unclad Fulanis, talk less of 1800.
For the vast majority of Fulanis, Agbada isn't even a clothing form of choice. Check the Mbororos in the bush and those ones who wear all sort of stuff. Many of the urbanized Fulanis and Hausas wearing that stuff today imbibed it into their culture as a second hand culture just like Yorubas.

YonkijiSappo:


Its neither British nor western?
Did you even read my reply? The Tux is a form of a suit, and the origin of the Suit is actually from the British royal courts. Today the Suit is a symbol of WESTERN Bureaucracy, diplomacy and White blue collar engagement, not just British or English.
Now you see my point.

Btw... Why did you say the Tuxedo is American when it is basically a suit?
Yorubas have no stake in your boubou from Senegal and Mauritania maybe, but we have a stake in our own Agbada, which we have in fact introduced to other groups such as the Fon and the Edo.
I don't know why you have this perception that only Sahelian groups can wear long flowing robes..lol wrong.

There are groups in Liberia, Sierra Leone in forest regions etc that wear forms of the long flowing robe known as Agbada, Babban riga, Grand boubou, Ngalpellwol, etc.... whose ultimate origins would even have to go further back to North African berbers and not even your Hausa sahel.

By your logic the grand boubou is there arab yeah? Since inspiration is drawn from that?

The distinction between arab robes and babban riga just like the tux and suit are such that they belong to niches of their own even though they draw inspiration from one another.

The agbada does not however differ enough from other sahelian robes to qualify.

Other ethnicities you mentioned using it are people who adopted it at a latter stage due to influence from sahelian groups. Please read a book before you keep spreading ignorance.

Btw, if you classify the tuxedo as western then the grand boubou is classified sahelian/muslim west african. Once again conditions you dont fulfill

YonkijiSappo:
These are some of the earliest Agbada forms Yorubas wore.
Does that even look like a babban-riga to you?

Is this what your people wear today? You can keep that, i dont care. But what you lot wear about and call agbada today is without a doubt of northern origin. Its simple as that.

Ersan:


By your logic the grand boubou is there arab yeah? Since inspiration is drawn from that?

The distinction between arab robes and babban riga just like the tux and suit are such that they belong to niches of their own even though they draw inspiration from one another.

The agbada does not however differ enough from other sahelian robes to qualify.

Other ethnicities you mentioned using it are people who adopted it at a latter stage due to influence from sahelian groups. Please read a book before you keep spreading ignorance.

Btw, if you classify the tuxedo as western then the grand boubou is classified sahelian/muslim west african. Once again conditions you dont fulfill

No it is not. Arabs dont even wear anything like the Agbada. Agbada is uniquely African, originating in North Africa and probably among the berbers to be precise.
Arabs of old never wore 2 or 3 piece clothing materials, they wore long flowing robes.

Agbada is West African. (Not Sahelian) while Tuxedo is Western.
As simple as that.

Ersan:


Is this what your people wear today? You can keep that, i dont care. But what you lot wear about and call agbada today is without a doubt of northern origin. Its simple as that.

What we wear today is simply further adaptations of that.

YonkijiSappo:


No it is not. Arabs dont even wear anything like the Agbada. Agbada is uniquely African, originating in North Africa and probably among the berbers to be precise.
Arabs of old never wore 2 or 3 piece clothing materials, they wore long flowing robes.

Agbada is West African. (Not Sahelian) while Tuxedo is Western.
As simple as that.

Exactly! Sort of what i was explaining to your friend over there. But the inspiration for the grand boubou was drawn from arabian robes.

Call it whatever you want, still wont ever change where you got it from.