How una day take type plenty things like this

onyenze123:


Good

You mentioned three important things that influence and develop the intellect of a man.

1. Leadership 2. Culture 3. Environment. (4. Religion)

Why can't we organize ourselves and fix these 3 (four) determinants in order to advance as a people?

You, my friend, are obviously too simpleminded to be dignified with a response. You're so blind you can't see beyond your own nose. Are your olfactory lobes even active? You certainly can't "sniff it", can you? What's so difficult to understand here? Is this belief of yours some sort of new religion composed of closeminded fanatics? Why are you so bent on "proving the fact" that the Black man is "on average" (whatever that means!!!) intellectually inferior? What's the deal?

onyenze123:


Have you ever asked yourself why the Atlantic slave trade which took place across the Atlantic Ocean from the 15th through the 19th centuries (400years) lasted that long?

Yes, I have and I know why.
The warring African states found an "ingenious" way to outsource
their problems(i.e the enemy forces), they thought that selling off
the captured enemies was the best way to domination and prevention
of future conflict. Also, some traders found a lucrative opportunity to make
money.
And the whites were happy because a slave that stands out(due to skin colour) is the easiest
to keep with little risk of escaping.

Can you tell me any other race that was subjugated, humiliated and maltreated on an unprecedented level like people of Sub Saharan Africa?

It isn't an African thing, it is called slavery and all slaves feel humiliated and maltreated.
Slavery didn't start in the 16th century, it is as old as human civilization itself.
Every culture and people have been subjected to slavery at one time or the other.

Who stopped the slave trading and what influenced it?

The British stopped slave trading.

Anyone who wants to know the real problem should answer the above questions honestly.

I assume you already know the answer, why not share it with us ?

onyenze123:

Can you tell me any other race that was subjugated, humiliated and maltreated on an unprecedented level like people of Sub Saharan Africa?

Ignoring for now your false assumption that all sub-Saharan Africans have been enslaved, where exactly do you think the very word "slave" comes from? Have you ever bothered to examine its etymology? Here, let me help you out

From Middle English, a borrowing from Old French sclave, from Medieval Latin sclāvus (“slave”), from Late Latin Sclāvus (“Slav”), because Slavs were often forced into slavery in the Middle Ages

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/slave#Etymology

Ever heard of the tale of Roxelana? She was a Slav captured during a slave raid by the Tatars, who eventually ended up in the harem of the Ottoman Sultan. This happened in the 16th century, the same period during which the first black slaves were brought to the colony of Virginia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roxelana

In fact, the Ottoman trade in European slaves was still quite healthy in the 17th century, and only fully stopped in the 19th century, with the rise of Russia and Britain.

And then there's the whole "genocide of the Native Americans" thing to consider, which happened despite their having built civilizations even the Europeans were willing to acknowledge as such.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_indigenous_peoples#Colonization_and_genocide_in_the_Americas

Going back further in time, how much more humiliating and oppressive does it get than to have your holiest temple desecrated and razed to the ground, your capital demolished, and your people forbidden from even setting foot on their own soil on pain of death, with huge numbers of those who weren't slaughtered on the spot being marched off to a distant land as slaves to be worked to death? That's exactly what happened to the Jews after their failed revolts against the Roman Empire, and it only took them 2,000 years of exile in ghettos, religious pogroms, expulsions, and too many other varieties of oppression to name, culminating in their industrialized murder between 1941 and 1945. Tell me anything in the black experience that approaches that level of sustained suffering!

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish%E2%80%93Roman_wars[/url]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

Your assumptions about the uniquely wretched and humiliated nature of "sub Saharan Africans" only reveal how lacking in historical knowledge you are, a deficit that renders you incapable of taking a proper perspective on how the various peoples of the world have fared. Your belief that being a victim of oppression must be because of a deficit in one's abilities, character, or knowledge, only says something about your own mindset, which seeks to always identify with the "winning" side at any cost, even at the cost of self-respect.

BlazingAyomikun:
You, my friend, are obviously too simpleminded to be dignified with a response. You're so blind you can't see beyond your own nose. Are your olfactory lobes even active? You certainly can't "sniff it", can you? What's so difficult to understand here? Is this belief of yours some sort of new religion composed of closeminded fanatics? Why are you so bent on "proving the fact" that the Black man is "on average" (whatever that means!!!) intellectually inferior? What's the deal?

awe of an unabitious mind. A closed minded african who would rather believe some extraordinary gift has been bestowed on a race and would willingly commit his race to their servitude.
China just celebrated their first indigeniously manufactured aircraft this week; another milestone for the amitious spirit.
North korea is undeter in their space research and rocket technology advancements. The have a "can do" spirit. North korea despite nothing to show for a country so much like average african countries, but with a "can do" leader, a leader who may seem to be a psychopath and unintelligent, a leader whose will can not be broken, a leader who has tasked his people, pushed them to their limit and the must advanced technology, Nuclear technology is in their grasp. A testament to what can be achieved by any race, country or people, if they set their minds to it. And here we have supposed intellectuals on nairaland, Negroes who believe we are inherently deficient to attain what caucaisians have attained. Plcing the achievements of these so called advanced countries to be a genetical advantage based/driven superior intellect at play. What a shame.

neocortex

Yes, I have and I know why.
The warring African states found an "ingenious" way to outsource
their problems(i.e the enemy forces), they thought that selling off
the captured enemies was the best way to domination and prevention
of future conflict. Also, some traders found a lucrative opportunity to make
money.
And the whites were happy because a slave that stands out(due to skin colour) is the easiest
to keep with little risk of escaping.

According to French historian Jean-Michel Deveau the slave trade and consequently slavery, which lasted from the 16th to the 19th century, constitute one of "the greatest tragedies in the history of humanity in terms of scale and duration".

Scale : "It is estimated that between 25 to 30 million people, men, women and children, were deported from their homes and sold as slaves in the different slave trading systems"

Duration: 400years

Do you see how erroneous your reply is?

I can't see how 25-30 million people fit into your description of sold captured warring enemies.

It isn't an African thing, it is called slavery and all slaves feel humiliated and maltreated.
Slavery didn't start in the 21st century, it is as old as human civilization itself.
Every culture and people have been subjected to slavery at one time or the other.

Did I ever say it is an Africa thing? I asked to show me a race that was subjugated to that unprecedented level of subjugation, humiliation and maltreatment at throughout history. I guess you don't have the answer to that.

The British stopped slave trading.

Correct (and it was possible because of the industrial revolution that happened at that time). It is important to note they actually stopped it because it was no longer profitable since machines could do most of the jobs done by slaves much more efficiently courtesy of Sir Isaac Newton motion laws.

Now imagine if the British didn't stop it, how many more of our people would have been sold for peanuts?

I assume you already know the answer, why not share it with us ?

The problem is we find it so challenging and difficult to solve our own problems and "Intelligence is the ability to solve problems"


http://www.unesco.org/new/en/social-and-human-sciences/themes/slave-route/transatlantic-slave-trade/

omohayek:


Ignoring for now your false assumption that all sub-Saharan Africans have been enslaved, where exactly do you think the very word "slave" comes from? Have you ever bothered to examine its etymology? Here, let me help you out

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/slave#Etymology

Ever heard of the tale of Roxelana? She was a Slav captured during a slave raid by the Tatars, who eventually ended up in the harem of the Ottoman Sultan. This happened in the 16th century, the same period during which the first black slaves were brought to the colony of Virginia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roxelana

In fact, the Ottoman trade in European slaves was still quite healthy in the 17th century, and only fully stopped in the 19th century, with the rise of Russia and Britain.

And then there's the whole "genocide of the Native Americans" thing to consider, which happened despite their having built civilizations even the Europeans were willing to acknowledge as such.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_indigenous_peoples#Colonization_and_genocide_in_the_Americas

Going back further in time, how much more humiliating and oppressive does it get than to have your holiest temple desecrated and razed to the ground, your capital demolished, and your people forbidden from even setting foot on their own soil on pain of death, with huge numbers of those who weren't slaughtered on the spot being marched off to a distant land as slaves to be worked to death? That's exactly what happened to the Jews after their failed revolts against the Roman Empire, and it only took them 2,000 years of exile in ghettos, religious pogroms, expulsions, and too many other varieties of oppression to name, culminating in their industrialized murder between 1941 and 1945. Tell me anything in the black experience that approaches that level of sustained suffering!

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish%E2%80%93Roman_wars[/url]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

Your assumptions about the uniquely wretched and humiliated nature of "sub Saharan Africans" only reveal how lacking in historical knowledge you are, a deficit that renders you incapable of taking a proper perspective on how the various peoples of the world have fared. Your belief that being a victim of oppression must be because of a deficit in one's abilities, character, or knowledge, only says something about your own mindset, which seeks to always identify with the "winning" side at any cost, even at the cost of self-respect.

Pls pls pls. Slavery is not why we are so backward as a continent. We have no excuse, our forefathers messed up and we seem to be messing up too. We could have been the ones enslaving the whites or be so powerful they could not slave us. We had the mental capability, but our thinking was not right. Our paradigm what wrong and retrogressive
Let us stop blaming slavery. If slavery is to be blamed, then it begs the question, how did we end up as slaves? Why did we not enslave the whites instead? Why were we not powerful enough to resist the whites of dehumanizing us?

You misread me if you think I'm blaming "slavery" for anything. The point I was making is that
[1] Not all "sub Saharan Africans" have been affected by slavery.
[2] African slavery, as terrible as it was, still wasn't the worst thing human beings have suffered, nor was it unique to sub-Saharan Africa.

HardMirror:

Pls pls pls. Slavery is not why we are so backward as a continent. We have no excuse, our forefathers messed up and we seem to be messing up too. We could have been the ones enslaving the whites or be so powerful they could not slave us. We had the mental capability, but our thinking was not right. Our paradigm what wrong and retrogressive
Let us stop blaming slavery. If slavery is to be blamed, then it begs the question, how did we end up as slaves? Why did we not enslave the whites instead? Why were we not powerful enough to resist the whites of dehumanizing us?

omohayek:


Ignoring for now your false assumption that all sub-Saharan Africans have been enslaved, where exactly do you think the very word "slave" comes from? Have you ever bothered to examine its etymology? Here, let me help you out

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/slave#Etymology

Ever heard of the tale of Roxelana? She was a Slav captured during a slave raid by the Tatars, who eventually ended up in the harem of the Ottoman Sultan. This happened in the 16th century, the same period during which the first black slaves were brought to the colony of Virginia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roxelana

In fact, the Ottoman trade in European slaves was still quite healthy in the 17th century, and only fully stopped in the 19th century, with the rise of Russia and Britain.

And then there's the whole "genocide of the Native Americans" thing to consider, which happened despite their having built civilizations even the Europeans were willing to acknowledge as such.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_indigenous_peoples#Colonization_and_genocide_in_the_Americas

Going back further in time, how much more humiliating and oppressive does it get than to have your holiest temple desecrated and razed to the ground, your capital demolished, and your people forbidden from even setting foot on their own soil on pain of death, with huge numbers of those who weren't slaughtered on the spot being marched off to a distant land as slaves to be worked to death? That's exactly what happened to the Jews after their failed revolts against the Roman Empire, and it only took them 2,000 years of exile in ghettos, religious pogroms, expulsions, and too many other varieties of oppression to name, culminating in their industrialized murder between 1941 and 1945. Tell me anything in the black experience that approaches that level of sustained suffering!

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish%E2%80%93Roman_wars[/url]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

Your assumptions about the uniquely wretched and humiliated nature of "sub Saharan Africans" only reveal how lacking in historical knowledge you are, a deficit that renders you incapable of taking a proper perspective on how the various peoples of the world have fared. Your belief that being a victim of oppression must be because of a deficit in one's abilities, character, or knowledge, only says something about your own mindset, which seeks to always identify with the "winning" side at any cost, even at the cost of self-respect.

The question you quoted is a follow up to this question:

Have you ever asked yourself why the Atlantic slave trade which took place across the Atlantic Ocean from the 15th through the 19th centuries (400years) lasted that long?

Well, it has been described as "the greatest tragedies in the history of humanity in terms of scale and duration".

"http://www.unesco.org/new/en/social-and-human-sciences/themes/slave-route/transatlantic-slave-trade/"

Why I agree with some of the points you raised, I think you didn't get my question

Let us stop blaming slavery. If slavery is to be blamed, then it begs the question, how did we end up as slaves? Why did we not enslave the whites instead? Why were we not powerful enough to resist the whites of dehumanizing us?

I have been asking myself this question. While do agree with omohayek that the Jews were also dealt with, (ours is most tragic anyway) look at where they are today.

I don't want to talk much about them, if you are interested read "the Jewish phenomenon" by Steven Silbiger and see how they have made progress as a people.

An excerpt from the book:

"A new flood is foretold. In five days the rain will be incessant, and the world will be wiped out.

The Dalai Lama addresses the world's Buddhists and says, "Meditate and prepare for your next reincarnation纮"

The Pope holds an audience and tells Catholics, "Confess your sins and pray."


The Chief Rabbi of Israel goes on TV and says, "We have five days to learn to live underwater!"纮

"

onyenze123:

Well, it has been described as "the greatest tragedies in the history of humanity in terms of scale and duration".

"http://www.unesco.org/new/en/social-and-human-sciences/themes/slave-route/transatlantic-slave-trade/"

Why I agree with some of the points you raised, I think you didn't get my question

You are misquoting the article you linked to. The following is the correct passage:

According to French historian Jean-Michel Deveau the slave trade and consequently slavery, which lasted from the 16th to the 19th century, constitute one of "the greatest tragedies in the history of humanity in terms of scale and duration".

Notice the crucial "one of" that you left out? As terrible as the African slave trade was, it still can't compare to nearly wiping out two entire continents populated with Native Americans, nor was it worse than having your old people, your women and your children gassed on an industrial scale, as if they were no more than farm animals.

As for the fact that it took 400 years to stop the African slave trade, so what? The Slavic slave trade lasted a lot longer than that, so are you suggesting it says something about the capacities of the Slavic peoples? Are you willing to similarly suggest that the Holocaust "proves" that Jews were deficient in some way? Because there's real no difference between that and what you've been trying to say.

It is nothing but a pointless exercise in self-loathing to insist that the economic backwardness of many parts of Africa owes to something intrinsically wrong with black Africans, especially when these "backward" Africans are already doing better on many indices of development than most of Europe was doing in the 19th century, 300 years after the Renaissance and 100 years after the Enlightenment: the average African today lives longer than the average 19th century European, and is much likelier to be literate, even though mass education in reading and writing only arrived in most of Africa in the 20th century. If you think Nigeria's cities today are horrible messes of pollution and squalor, you know nothing of how bad most European cities were until the end of the 19th century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Stink
https://www.bl.uk/collection-items/the-rookeries-of-london-a-survey-of-londons-poorest-quality-housing

As I said, you need to acquire some historical perspective to see that there's nothing uniquely terrible about how Africans are doing. It took Western Europe more than 1,000 years to return to the heights of civilization attained by the Roman Empire, and even that return was only made possible by the learning passed to them by the Arabs and the Byzantine Empire. No one takes any of that as evidence of western Europeans' racial inferiority, but as soon as the discussion turns to black Africans, a new and much higher standard is suddenly raised. Have you ever asked yourself why that is the case?

I'll tell you why: because you have internalized a lot of the racist propaganda that was generated in the 19th century to justify keeping black people in the Americas in slavery, even in the face of enlightenment principles of human equality. British and (especially) American slavery apologists were the first to suggest that blacks were best kept as slaves because they supposedly lacked the intellectual capacity to make use of freedom (despite which they introduced the death penalty for teaching slaves how to read).

onyenze123:
neocortex



According to French historian Jean-Michel Deveau the slave trade and consequently slavery, which lasted from the 16th to the 19th century, constitute one of "the greatest tragedies in the history of humanity in terms of scale and duration".

Scale : "It is estimated that between 25 to 30 million people, men, women and children, were deported from their homes and sold as slaves in the different slave trading systems"

Duration: 400years

Do you see how erroneous your reply is?

I can't see how 25-30 million people fit into your description of sold captured warring enemies.

So the 25 million were ghosts or specifically manufactured for slavery?
Yes, they were captured enemy soldiers or sometimes condemned criminals.

You could have made your point without quoting an outrageous figure,
expert agree that the slaves traded in the trans-atlantic trade ranges from 12-15
million not the 25 million you quoted from a lone historian who probably have
an agenda of making you feel inferior to him.

The sold slaves were Africans and the traders and slave-raiders were
also Africans.

The arab slave trade lasted for 1100 years, of which 12-17 million
people were traded.

Again point to any culture that have never been enslaved ?

Scale and duration is meaningless as the circumstances
and motivating factor for slavery differs across cultures.
If you consider that Sub-saharan Africa is a very diverse
territory and any identity given to such is a modern
invention, then everything will make sense to you.

Did I ever say it is an Africa thing? I asked to show me a race that was subjugated to that unprecedented level of subjugation, humiliation and maltreatment at throughout history. I guess you don't have the answer to that.

Their is nothing unprecedented about the treatment of slaves during the Trans-atlantic slave trade,
a slave is treated like a slave not a royal, is that too hard to comprehend ?

About 1.2 million europeans were enslaved by the arabs, but I have never
come across a European who regard the Arabs as being of superior intelligence
or cry to high heaven on how inferior they are to the arabs.

I think what confuses many of you guys is the word "black", when in reality
there was neither black identity nor unity during the slave trades and blacks
held other blacks from enemy territory as slaves.

The victim-complex as been perpetuated by you is one of the reason for Africa's
backwardness, one would expect that those who are more enlightened will
have a unique perspective on social issues, unfortunately, reverse is the case.
Self-pity and self-condemnation don't go with development.

Correct (and it was possible because of the industrial revolution that happened at that time). It is important to note they actually stopped it because it was no longer profitable since machines could do most of the jobs done by slaves much more efficiently courtesy of Sir Isaac Newton motion laws.

Now imagine if the British didn't stop it, how many more of our people would have been sold for peanuts?

Many African slaves final destinations was the America's not Europe and even if slavery was no longer
profitable for the britons, it was very profitable for the Americans.

Will you spend your scarce resources to discourage other people, even your competitors, from entering
an unprofitable business ?

Does that make any sense ?

British stance against slavery isn't based on just profit, if it was, they would care less what
other countries do.

The problem is we find it so challenging and difficult to solve our own problems and "Intelligence is the ability to solve problems"

http://www.unesco.org/new/en/social-and-human-sciences/themes/slave-route/transatlantic-slave-trade/

No, you only solve a problem you are trying to solve, do not
mistake complaints for concern. A problem will never get solved until
someone make an effort to solve it!

This thread has been disappointing because none of the white supremacist
are able to offer any concrete evidence to back their claims. All the claims
made here are what I will expect in a beer-parlour argument.

All I see is a failed attempt to present symptoms as the cause of a disease.

plaetton:


Hhhhmmm.

It's difficult to honestly answer this question without appearing self-deprecating.

Going by the letter of the question, my answer is yes( and many will come for my head).

Intellectually inferior in the sense that we , our entire cultural setups are somewhat impediments to intellectual exploration and expansion.

[/b]Our intellectual shortcomings are by NO means, and let me emphasize it, BY No means genetic, but due to accumulated and entrenched cultural/religious norms and habits.[b]

N:B
And let me emphasize that I personally make a distinction between intelligence and intellectual expression.
The difference between the two are culture.
Every human is embued with intelligence. Intellectualism is the expression of that innate intelligence.

Some cultures foster the expression of intelligence, intellectualism, while many cultures, such as we have in subsahara Africa, impedes the expression of that innate intelligence.

I hope the above makes some sense.
I am not even sure it does.

This I agree with.

hmmm.

HardMirror:
awe of an unabitious mind. A closed minded african who would rather believe some extraordinary gift has been bestowed on a race and would willingly commit his race to their servitude.
China just celebrated their first indigeniously manufactured aircraft this week; another milestone for the amitious spirit.
North korea is undeter in their space research and rocket technology advancements. The have a "can do" spirit. North korea despite nothing to show for a country so much like average african countries, but with a "can do" leader, a leader who may seem to be a psychopath and unintelligent, a leader whose will can not be broken, a leader who has tasked his people, pushed them to their limit and the must advanced technology, Nuclear technology is in their grasp. A testament to what can be achieved by any race, country or people, if they set their minds to it. And here we have supposed intellectuals on nairaland, Negroes who believe we are inherently deficient to attain what caucaisians have attained. Plcing the achievements of these so called advanced countries to be a genetical advantage based/driven superior intellect at play. What a shame.

What a Shame, indeed!

Born2Freak:




Also consider that Africans carry first class in European and American universities.

The issue is environment. Blacks were the last race to be enslaved.

Necessity is the mother of all inventions. What did the ancient black man lack? He had good weather, fertile land, big booty women, fruits, rivers and spices.

The ancient white man had snow and therefore needed thick houses with proper insulation and fire place. A black man only needed a hut. The white man had 4 seasons to contend with when planting.

There is also the issue of trade. Europe is linked both with the middle East and Asia. While Africa is in a corner to the side of the middle East. Trade brings culture and civilization.


So you see, environment matters.

so what went wrong that the environment overwhelmed us.....Mos def something fundamental is wrong with us for the man makes the environment and shouldn't be the other way.

Babacele:
so what went wrong that the environment overwhelmed us.....Mos def something fundamental is wrong with us for the man makes the environment and shouldn't be the other way.

Man doesn't make geography.

Trade routes as well.

Born2Freak:



Man doesn't make geography.

Trade routes as well.

Man overcomes unfriendly elements either in d air ,earth ,water or any environment to create him a better society and also created trade routes. He has one power more potent than the strongest H bomb in the world: the power of his mind. So what is wrong with our collective mind in SSA?

Babacele:
Man overcomes unfriendly elements either in d air ,earth ,water or any environment to create him a better society and also created trade routes. He has one power more potent than the strongest H bomb in the world: the power of his mind. So what is wrong with our collective mind in SSA?

Hold up!

4 decades ago, UAE/Dubai was a desert with nothing. China was also nothing. Were they inferior to the white man who had industrialization centuries ago?

China and UAE were not enslaved by Europeans. Africans were.

Europeans had access to Asia and Middle east. Trade routes. Africa is in a corner- only close to Europe.

omohayek:
You misread me if you think I'm blaming "slavery" for anything. The point I was making is that
[1] Not all "sub Saharan Africans" have been affected by slavery.
[2] African slavery, as terrible as it was, still wasn't the worst thing human beings have suffered, nor was it unique to sub-Saharan Africa.

we are on the same page bro. Your contribution have been enlightening

Pedagogue Timelezz / UltraLeslie / lezz Diplomaticbeing TheSonOfMark / TSOM

Born2Freak:



Hold up!

4 decades ago, UAE/Dubai was a desert with nothing. China was also nothing. Were they inferior to the white man who had industrialization centuries ago?

China and UAE were not enslaved by Europeans. Africans were.

Europeans had access to Asia and Middle east. Trade routes. Africa is in a corner- only close to Europe.

ain't no advocate of a race being superior to the black race. ....yea Africa was enslaved and still being enslaved because she allows it. ...But why do we allow enslavement? few selfish persons come together to terrorize a whole community without being repelled? Slavery stopped sometimes ago ,others have moved on but we still nurse the scars therefrom. If not for Tinubu ,see how a small population of rogue politicians have held this nation down and raping her for about 3 decades while the UAE n born again China under Chairman Mao planted their seeds of socio economic devs. We steal our economies pretty blind and keep the money in foreign banks and you think we ain't insane?

Interesting topic, spent the last few hours engulfed by the arguments on here particularly between TheEminentLaity and Sauerr.
TheEminentLaity, I really commend your humility, and willingness to accept a stronger argument than yours, you took it like a man, very refreshing. And for you Sauerr, I loved your persistence and drive to drive down your points, I eventually gave in, and found my head nodding in agreement.

In my little mind, when I considered this topic of intelligence and Africa, all I did was look around me, and there laid the answer. I noticed all my intelligent friends and colleagues who were capable of effecting change in Nigeria have fled to more developed climes…with no immediate plans to return, and those who did return where burned by a number of constraints. When you are burned once and then some, its very easy to get discouraged to do more for your people. It’s extremely difficult to break the cycle and chains of poverty and illiteracy, children just recycle the mistakes of their parents, it’s hard to breakaway from what your environment/society dictates.

My father was able to through reading books, magazines and newspapers that rapidly revamped his mindset, values and overall views of life. He too was once stuck in the pits of poverty somewhere in the villages here in Nigeria, but he broke away, transferred this new knowledge to his children and that cycle is likely to continue. If this is replicated in at least 70% of families, the renaissance may occur. If he had left for the west and never returned (which has been the norm in Africa), I wouldn’t be here typing this.

Thanks. The problem is certainly not genetic, good thing it isn't because Nigeria as it is today presents all sorts of problems and troubles that prompts everyone living here to wonder and ask if there is something inherently wrong with us. But it's more about intellectual laziness combined with culture and traditions enforced by religion and superstition. The best method to connect with the minds of great thinkers and inventors over time is by reading their works and I am better for it. Intelligence grows and people get better with training and education. The internet has made the world smaller with the ease of access to information, and nigerians must start looking.

Today, I engaged an former classmate of mine, currently in the civil service, and told him 10 years from now nobody in the west would go for lectures with notebooks and pens. Imagine mobile phones ten years ago, perhaps, we could be so connected that actual contact time with lecturers would almost be non-existent.

In contrast, It is really unfortunate that the political class are, maybe unconsciously from our ultra-conservative nature, keeping the future generations more and more at a disadvantage such that even in Lagos there are schools without roofs, desks and books and school children without any materials. Twenty years ago, a prospective student in the third world with a scholarship may not have had to deal with so much computerisation, currently, you are by default expected to learn and express your ideas using computers with decent typing speed. I have written my representatives, but Nigeria is just one hell of a place.

The future is in science and technology, by now it is no longer an expectation that anybody with some form of education should know how to operate computers. Humans are evolving into weaker species with much more developed brains and with increasing competition, it's no longer the strong that survives but the people with higher intellect.

Your father did great for his family. So should everyone. Like yours, my father was very poor and did well to afford us good education. I would for mine as well and my community. Education of true learning and curiosity cannot be overemphasised. More so now than ever. As for Nigeria, a referendum would be a good restart. We need to decide whether we want to create a decent society or this chaos we have now.

I agree with you. You know there are more genes for intelligence on the X chromosome than the Y, so 'educate a woman and you educate a nation' is actually scientific.

mindeed:
Interesting topic, spent the last few hours engulfed by the arguments on here particularly between TheEminentLaity and Sauerr.
TheEminentLaity, I really commend your humility, and willingness to accept a stronger argument than yours, you took it like a man, very refreshing. And for you Sauerr, I loved your persistence and drive to drive down your points, I eventually gave in, and found my head nodding in agreement.

In my little mind, when I considered this topic of intelligence and Africa, all I did was look around me, and there laid the answer. I noticed all my intelligent friends and colleagues who were capable of effecting change in Nigeria have fled to more developed climes…with no immediate plans to return, and those who did return where burned by a number of constraints. When you are burned once and then some, its very easy to get discouraged to do more for your people. It’s extremely difficult to break the cycle and chains of poverty and illiteracy, children just recycle the mistakes of their parents, it’s hard to breakaway from what your environment/society dictates.

My father was able to through reading books, magazines and newspapers that rapidly revamped his mindset, values and overall views of life. He too was once stuck in the pits of poverty somewhere in the villages here in Nigeria, but he broke away, transferred this new knowledge to his children and that cycle is likely to continue. If this is replicated in at least 70% of families, the renaissance may occur. If he had left for the west and never returned (which has been the norm in Africa), I wouldn’t be here typing this.

TheEminentLaity:
Thanks. The problem is certainly not genetic, good thing it isn't because Nigeria as it is today presents all sorts of problems and troubles that prompts everyone living here to wonder and ask if there is something inherently wrong with us. But it's more about intellectual laziness combined with culture and traditions enforced by religion and superstition. The best method to connect with the minds of great thinkers and inventors over time is by reading their works and I am better for it. Intelligence grows and people get better with training and education. The internet has made the world smaller with the ease of access to information, and nigerians must start looking.

Today, I engaged an former classmate of mine, currently in the civil service, and told him 10 years from now nobody in the west would go for lectures with notebooks and pens. Imagine mobile phones ten years ago, perhaps, we could be so connected that actual contact time with lecturers would almost be non-existent.

In contrast, It is really unfortunate that the political class are, maybe unconsciously from our ultra-conservative nature, keeping the future generations more and more at a disadvantage such that even in Lagos there are schools without roofs, desks and books and school children without any materials. Twenty years ago, a prospective student in the third world with a scholarship may not have had to deal with so much computerisation, currently, you are by default expected to learn and express your ideas using computers with decent typing speed. I have written my representatives, but Nigeria is just one hell of a place.

The future is in science and technology, by now it is no longer an expectation that anybody with some form of education should know how to operate computers. Humans are evolving into weaker species with much more developed brains and with increasing competition, it's no longer the strong that survives but the people with higher intellect.

Your father did great for his family. So should everyone. Like yours, my father was very poor and did well to afford us good education. I would for mine as well and my community. Education of true learning and curiosity cannot be overemphasised. More so now than ever. As for Nigeria, a referendum would be a good restart. We need to decide whether we want to create a decent society or this chaos we have now.

I agree with you. You know there are more genes for intelligence on the X chromosome than the Y, so 'educate a woman and you educate a nation' is actually scientific.

You are an objective man. You got my respect sir.
We are not being emotional (as someone claimed earlier) nor are we patronizing the black race when we sayu we are not intellectually inferior to any race. It is just plain obvious the black man is not lackingninnintelectualismnelse the discuss that has transpired on this thread would not have taken place. I don't see dolts on this thread, I see intellectuals.
The dolts and the problem of Africa are those who would never engage in any discuss that does not immediately bring food to their table.

I am changing my position on this topic after going through the discussions here and doing my personal research. We are not intellectually inferior to other races.

It is true they are currently more advanced than us and we are seriously lagging behind in development. This has to do with leadership and politics; growth and development don't happen overnight, it is a steady and slow process.

As a result of western powers meddling in Africa internal affairs (US is currently boiling because of alleged Russian interference in their election) we have had bad leadership who protect the interests of the west and enrich themselves heavily in the process. This has caused us a century of retrogression. The politics is anti people and anti development. Who ever stood up against them (the west) was mercilessly dealt with and the exploitation of our natural resources is still going on infecting us with Dutch disease. This is why we are still underdeveloped with low Human Development Index and GDP.

All the Asian economic tigers today had a leader that rose in the late '80's with a unique political philosophy suitable for their development. UAE and Qatar had change of leadership that championed their development with all they got.

Nigeria and Sub Saharan Africa in general will start trajectory of real development if we do away with the current political economy. The critical issue now is who will lead the revolution? who will bell the cat (the west)?

Trudax:
You all can lie to yourselves all you want. You can blame the environment and blame the culture, but isn't the culture and the environment a product of the thinking, easily avoidable mistakes and structural errors of sub-saharan Africans? And I am tired of this whole language game about race. Sub-saharan Africans, the people who currently dominate the parts of western, southern and eastern Africa, are intellectually inferior to people everywhere else, on the average. And the kind of intelligence I am referring to is the ability to think critically and objectively, to decipher complex issues and to reason abstractly. This is my opinion and I'll keep on having this opinion until I find evidence that says otherwise. But right now, I am more than convinced. You all can keep yanning bullshit, until one world power decides to perform a holocaust on black people, then maybe you'll change their mind with your argument that race doesn't exist. Nonsense!

Other parts of the world are progressing at lightening speed, and in meaningful areas, while sub-saharan Africa is regressing in the same speed. If we had as many intelligent people as they had, and at the same statistical average as them, why aren't we progressing as they are? Is information a problem? Anyone can get as much information as he wants today. Why cant we utilize the mountain of information available to move our country forward? Why can't we rule ourselves? How is that so hard to do? Why can't we build sustainable and progressive political structures? Why do we have lots of greedy and unintelligent people in positions of power? Why do we still have a very pious majority, despite how obviously flawed and harmful religious beliefs are? Why are we still mired in this quick sand of tribal bigotry? If we actually had lots of intelligent people, then it would follow that we would be less tribalistic, but the reverse is the case. See, it doesn't take one to be a genius to let go of culturally entrenched prejudices and stereotypes.

It's only when we evaluate a situation with honesty and objectivity, that we can recognize the problems underlying that situation and mitigate them.

From your posts, I doubt if your IQ is up to 80.

All I can deduce from your rants is that of an anti-intellectual provocateur
whose purpose is to enrage by making dumb propositions.
You made a wild claim and challenged others to disprove your position,
a classical tactic of shallow thinkers.

Saying other parts of the world are making progress without being specific
confirms your reasoning as been myopic at best.

All you have to do is declare yourself a failure, coming to the net to project your bitter
life experiences on the entire African race won't help your condition, it will only make
it worse.

I blame those who didn't see through your tricks and engaged with
you in directionless arguments.

TheEminentLaity has eminently showcased an honourable, admirable and emulation-worthy maturity, sincerity and sound objectivity. Admitting one's error in this way and making quick adjustment to one's views accordingly takes some doing on the part of an adult who, typically, has a monumental ego to massage and would, normally, have termed such a taint on his pride. You have my deepest respects sir. Your commendable attitude has set the stage for others who probably wouldn't have admitted their error otherwise to come out to concede being wrong, putting their archetypal masculine ego aside.

And sir Sauerr, thanks for your inputs. They were educative, inspiring and resonant with the soul. I was nodding in affirmation as I read along, chewing your words like delicious burger. Excellent, sir. Excellent.

I'll basically rehash what others have said in a slightly different way:

It's really simple. Once a large proportion of a society gets logic and critical thinking, once such key ideas become common sense, then problem solving, creativity, meritocracy, innovation etc becomes commonplace.

It's a cycle just as poverty is a cycle. Good education gives rise to an informed populace - a pool outta which good leaders (at all levels) with good critical thinking and decision making skills can arise from. While, strong value systems ensure meritocracy last for as long as possible. But, like in all interconnected systems, persistent little lapses and failures inevitably leads to a cascade failure (well, all societies fail in the end, a simple consequence of thermodynamics!).

Same analysis goes for the poverty and ignorance cycle, but it's society (e.g. ours) has a far shorter timeframe for a cascade failure.

Adding this to the fact that many sub-saharan people are successful in schools and companies around the world (i.e. nothing intrinsically wrong with us) plus the second fact that race is nothing but an arbitrary definition of groups from what's actually a continuous genetic variation, you would have no choice but to agree that your question isn't valid.

So, until we deal with STEM education with a focus on making stuff and being a world leader in more than one market, until we standardize our education system, raise the bar of the horseshit level we call basic education (I.e reading and writing), ensure that all boys and girls must go to school, relegate religion and non-progressive cultural beliefs, until we create strong vocational training schools, etc we'll keep wasting our time with such invalid questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx17P_O2LI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL88Lmu8vCY

ifenes:


Keep crying and exhibiting self hate. Saying Ebuka and I are less intelligent is totally out of the line. I think this sub Saharas are less intelligent thing is a story about your family. You feel inferior to others and want to make others feel like you. Misery love company.

Spot on, that guy is probably mentally retarded, that is why he thinks
his personal life failure is the norm for all Africans.
Unfortunately, white supremacist love people like him because
he works for them for free without even knowing it.

Trudax, don't know if you've seen this but this is a finely written piece by a Nigerian.
http://www.gamji.com/article6000/NEWS7430.htm