dalaman:


Who invented the IBM computer? Of course there are blacks that have achieved more than these ladies in the field of science and technology. But to compare the achievements of whites to blacks in the field of science and technology is not not know what you are saying. They own science and technology as we know it. They invented or discovered most of the modern scientific process and they are the ones sustaining it.

Because most of the theories and models of the modern scientific process do not have any black African man or woman's name attached to it.

Of course we are intelligent in our ways, but the reality is that these people have displayed superior intelligence by their creativity and ingenuity , ability to organize themselves and solve their problems, leadership proweres, trend setting, dominace, military might and on and on in ways we can not and we have not even demonstrated that we can period.

Good point. But does that mean that we are less intelligent? The above doesn't really answer the question.

sauerr:

Good point. But does that mean that we are less intelligent? The above doesn't really answer the question.

If we are equally intelligent then why aren't we creating susperb systems like them? Why aren't we able to organize ourselves and create functional societies like theirs. Why aren't we able to solve our problems like them? Why aren't we making groud breaking discoveries and inventing things like them? Why are we easily fooled and dominated by them?

dalaman:


If we are equally intelligent then why aren't we creating susperb systems like them? Why aren't we able to organize ourselves and create functional societies like theirs. Why aren't we able to solve our problems like them? Why aren't we making groud breaking discoveries and inventing things like them? Why are we easily fooled and dominated by them?

I will like to know Ifenes opinion on this

dalaman:


Who invented the IBM computer? Of course there are blacks that have achieved more than these ladies in the field of science and technology. But to compare the achievements of whites to blacks in the field of science and technology is not not know what you are saying. They own science and technology as we know it. They invented or discovered most of the modern scientific process and they are the ones sustaining it.

Because most of the theories and models of the modern scientific process do not have any black African man or woman's name attached to it.

Of course we are intelligent in our ways, but the reality is that these people have displayed superior intelligence by their creativity and ingenuity , ability to organize themselves and solve their problems, leadership proweres, trend setting, dominace, military might and on and on in ways we can not and we have not even demonstrated that we can period.

Foreign manufacturing companies don't have whites only working for them . Black people also work in these companies that manufacture and invent new technology . Its a collective effort of the human race not the white race .

Just recently a black woman in Alabama was granted 1.1 million dollars to further her research on cancer treatment using lasers and nano particles .Didn't Facebook buy an app or so developed by a black man - a Nigerian for that matter - for 3.5 billion dollars ?

Black people are doing stuff in every area of life , but you don't seem to care to know about these things because you are blinded by your white supremacy nonsense

TheEminentLaity:

Jeez! Where or when did I say that? I am a black african man, pure breed from my full african ancestors and I'm a not doing badly in academics. I could probably be used as motivation for young black africans who live in Nigeria and aspire to study and do research in the sciences at elite universities or even go further to aspire for a Nobel prize in science. But, I'm just one person. The average needs to go up. For every, say, Okonjo Iweala in 160m Nigerians, there are a thousand to ten thousand among 120m Japanese. Not everyone would get into Harvard or become that prolific but educated people won't elect id!ots over and over again especially those that contributed to it's regression in the first place worse still celebrate them. Besides, education makes people much more tolerant and sensible. Our averages need to go up because the result is what is apparent when you look at the level of underdevelopment and mediocrity celebrated by black people. Nigerians have to get serious and more of our people need to come in.

In my uni there were just a handful of black people in my department, just three africans (all Nigerians) and it gets less the higher up you go but you would think that the way Nigerians go for degrees you would find a lot of them there. So the argument about black people coming out top in foreign universities while true, doesn't paint a very accurate picture. Rather, how many are coming out top in elite foreign universities because there are many community colleges in the US, for example, that have lower standards in comparison.

There are generally fewer intelligent people as there are unintelligent people but this talk is about averages not potential (how do you even determine potential especially when one isn't trying at all?) The OP asked a question, and my response from observation is that we, speaking as a Nigerian, we have never shown (we won't have been captured if otherwise) have not and are still not showing in anyway anything other than intellectual inferiority to other races from the increased likelihood of poverty, disorganisation, and underdevelopment within black circles. Could it be genetic? Likely, because behaviours are similar within black african nations. However, I cannot outrightly say that. But the evidence needs to prove otherwise.

From the op is it not obvious that negros are condemned as inferior to other races as if by genetic makeup of being negros. I insist that our failures are not caused by inherent deficiency in intellectuallism but perhaps cultural, environmental influences that makes us docile. It is proven time and over again that we can reason at any level other races can, that is good enough for me to know we are not inferior genetically. It is not about being a black man biologically, our deficiency is in the black culture and priorities of the black society

dalaman:


If we are equally intelligent then why aren't we creating susperb systems like them? Why aren't we able to organize ourselves and create functional societies like theirs. Why aren't we able to solve our problems like them? Why aren't we making discoveries and inventing things like them? Why are we easily fooled and dominated by them?

Ironic as it may sound, I believe the very reason we are unable to create a functional society like them is because we do not already live in a functional society. Some bit of chain reaction has to start off the cascade of developments that will create sustainability in the country. Unfortunately, this hasn't happened. However, I think you are still making the same mistake of equating intelligence to development. You argue like: the child dies and the witch cried, so the witch killed the child.

Singapore is generally regarded as a country with highly intelligent students. On the average, at least, Singaporean students perform better on standardized tests than students from other countries. But here is the fun fact: the country was once enmeshed in the throes of underdevelopment and corruption, much like Nigeria, until the arrival of a certain leader who by force of sheer will took them out of it. The country, or at least the areas around it, has no particularly fantastic ancient civilization preceding it and was completely dominated by Japan as late as the 1940s. The more fun fact is that studies have shown that these stellar perfomances by Singaporean students have only come about lately after years of development infused by the leadership of Lee Kuan Yew. They at least didn't produce as good results in the earlier years when they struggled with living. Again, nurture!

Examples abound of the evidence of nurture (and of course nature) in advancing intelligence on the one hand, and societies at large. I must refer again to Lewis Hamilton to drive my point home. If he were Nigerian, he wouldn't even know what Formula one was. Well, fortunately he is not and today, he is turning out to be one of the greatest racers his generation has ever known. And did I mention that he is only the second black driver ever in that elite sport.

HardMirror:

From the op is it not obvious that negros are condemned as inferior to other races as if by genetic makeup of being negros. I insist that our failures are not caused by inherent deficiency in intellectuallism but perhaps cultural, environmental influences that makes us docile. It is proven time and over again that we can reason at any level other races can, that is good enough for me to know we are not inferior genetically. It is not about being a black man biologically, our deficiency is in the black culture and priorities of the black society

@emboldened, good point

trudax come and see

Sarassin:

The OP’s question has been answered severally, the trouble seems to be that the answer is not to your or the OP's liking. There is no empirical or scientific yardstick to come to the odious conclusion that the sub-Saharan Negroid is inherently intellectually inferior to his Caucasian counterpart, there is no genetic correlation between intelligence and race as the OP tried to slyly palm off, none whatsoever.

What you seem to do is outrightly dismiss that there isn't any possibility but that is in no way a scientific position to take. DNA fingerprinting shows Africans are different from other races. There are similarities within black communities along the lines of oppression, poverty, disorganisation and underdevelopment and I can only infer that it could be genetic.

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/neanderthal/

This is a very sensitive issue with ugly history but It doesn't and wouldn't distort any facts, no matter how uncomfortable. There may not be studies linking underdevelopment with genetics and intellectual ability, or that I haven't looked but the conversation certainly would come up and I am inclined towards that because it's been a bloody long especially when we compare our freedom with other former colonies. What is your explanation from your own observation?

If we define Intellectual superiority as the ability to solve one's problem with greatest of ease in comparison, where does the black african stand among other races?

Intellectual: A person that possesses a highly developed intellect

Going by averages to at least increase the curve, how many sub-saharan Africans have a highly developed intellect?

Nobody is saying that all is rosy in the sub-Saharan African garden, there are critical issues of development that need to be addressed but you appear to pre-suppose that the perceived inability of Sub-Saharan Africans to organize and govern themselves is due to an inherent intellectual inferiority, in the absence of cogent evidence such a stance amounts to little more than dog-whistle rabble-rousing.

It might be, it appears so. Humans are mainly different from Chimpazees because of their more advanced intellect, while chimps cannot have non-chaotic gatherings of over about 20 individuals, humans can have close to and over a billion eg. Roman Catholic or Muslim gatherings. The human ability to create concepts and believe them set us apart and organisation is another good indicator of sophistication.

You state that some young Nigerians are advocating a return to colonialism and that Nigerian workers prefer to work for a white man because they claim they won't get cheated, should we therefore encourage them to advocate a return to slavery because at least, they’d have a full time job and three square meals a day? Or should we encourage best practices in the workplace? What price a birth right?

Of course not. It is only indicative of the average perception of the people that the foreign pale coloured man might be superior in mannerisms and ethics. Actions speak much louder than fine words. What others consider mundane civil practices as common sense, we sometimes need whips to do the same things. There are a lot of factors to consider, but outright dismissal and condescending remarks is not the proper way to go.

dalaman:


If we are equally intelligent then why aren't we creating susperb systems like them? Why aren't we able to organize ourselves and create functional societies like theirs. Why aren't we able to solve our problems like them? Why aren't we making groud breaking discoveries and inventing things like them? Why are we easily fooled and dominated by them?

Because we are blacks, ndi ishi oji

TheEminentLaity:
Going by observation, what do you think? Remember this is about averages and not individuals. For instance, Nigeria has a literacy level of about 52% but we know it's that high because of the literacy level of the people down south in contrast with those in the North. So, are Nigerians more literate than say Zimbabwe with 90%? No. But Nigerians have way more educated people than Zimbabwe, in fact the most educated among other blacks in diaspora.
This is just to show that for a people to be great, everyone has to be factored in or else there would be no bragging rights.
Are we intellectually inferior and incapable of the level of reasoning?
I cannot say (Reason I believe the OP is trying to figure out) but going by observation we certainly are not showing any capability of sophisticated reasoning. It is clear to everyone that sub-saharan africans are the least intelligent, if intelligence is a factor for self government and organisation. How else would you explain the similarities that exist within our societies?

I have interacted and lived with not so bright caucasians and asians likewise those on the other side. But averages, averages. I may be bias in favour of science and scientists but that's because nothing else liberates and empowers any set of people and nation like the science and technology.

Your reasoning in terms of averages is certainly valid. I also agree that we should look at this subject through a non-emotional lens, as objectively as possible.

Of course, you'd agree that if the average is high in any society, then that society should be developed. Of the highly intelligent people, who are numerous, there should arise at least one man who would be able to take the society (or country) to the promise land. In that sense, I grant you that on the average, Nigerians are certainly less intelligent than Americans, for example. Now, taking the leap from here to the claim that this suggests Nigerians (or sub-Saharan Africans, if you like) are overall doomed to being generally less intelligent than other races portends taking a blind leap devoid of evidentiary support. By making this claim, you are suggesting that "it is in the genes" and there is not much the sub-Saharan average can do about being any more intelligent than they are destined to be. That's where I think you are getting it wrong.

If anything has been proven any more clearly in that hundred years of human advancement, it is that intelligence is not a set attribute, just as it is regarded that behaviour is not a set attribute. Intelligence morphs over time, taking different forms of expression dependent on the "nurture" or "environment" it is exposed to. That the mathematical ingenuity of Isaac Newton gave way to phantom alchemic exprimentations in his latter days says nothing about how truly intelligent he was; that the great Benjamin Franklin originally owned and dealt in slaves reveals nothing about how open and unbounded his thoughts were. So, what yardsticks can you then use to define the intelligence of a society or of a people? Certainly not the fact that they are unable to create a functioning society by themselves when they themselves are yet to "averagely" rise up the intellectual scale. Or would you? This is where you give them good education first and liberate them (just as was done with Franklin's and Newton's societies!). Again, nurture!

KingEbukaNaija:


Foreign manufacturing companies don't have whites only working for them . Black people also work in these companies that manufacture and invent new technology . Its a collective effort of the human race not the white race .

Just recently a black woman in Alabama was granted 1.1 million dollars to further her research on cancer treatment using lasers and nano particles .Didn't Facebook buy an app or so developed by a black man - a Nigerian for that matter - for 3.5 billion dollars ?

Black people are doing stuff in every area of life , but you don't seem to care to know about these things because you are blinded by your white supremacy nonsense

I know these things better than you because I've lived in Europe and America for the past 12 years.I've worked in one of the biggest technology company in Germany. I only fully came back to Nigeria in 2015. I've been to NASA, ESA and CERN. There are black people working and doing well in all these places I've been to. But I still insist that the black race is yet to show the level of intelligence that the white man has shown. We've not shown the level of organization, leadership, creativity and understanding of how the world works like them period.

I've lived with them for the past 12 years. You haven't. I've also been around some African countries. I've been to Ghana, Kenya, Cameroun, Benin republic, Togo, Ivory Coast, Tanzania, Uganda and Malawi. It is the same nonsense that is going on in all these African countries that I've visited.

You need to convince me with tangible things not empty words.

TheEminentLaity:

What you seem to do is outrightly dismiss that there isn't any possibility but that is in no way a scientific position to take. DNA fingerprinting shows Africans are different from other races. There are similarities within black communities along the lines of oppression, poverty, disorganisation and underdevelopment and I can only infer that it could be genetic.

This is such a tall and quite unsound argument to make. "You can only infer it could be genetic"? And it could be some other thing too? If you have no basic scientific support for your claim that it is genetic, I don't think it's wise to make that argument, especially when you could find a ton other reasons it "could" be.

dalaman:


I know these things better than you because I've lived in Europe and America for the past 12 years.I've worked in one of the biggest technology company in Germany. I only fully came back to Nigeria in 2015. I've been to NASA, ESA and CERN. There are black people working and doing well in all these places I've been to. But I still insist that the black race is yet to show the level of intelligence that the white man has shown. We've not shown the level of organization, leadership, creativity and understanding of how the world works like them period.

I've lived with them for the past 12 years. You haven't. I've also been around some African countries. I've been to Ghana, Kenya, Cameroun, Benin republic, Togo, Ivory Coast, Tanzania, Uganda and Malawi. It is the same nonsense that is going on in all these African countries that I've visited.

You need to convince me with tangible things not empty words.

Gbam!

sauerr:

I think you are making this mistake because you have exhaustively tied intelligence to societal development. An argument can be made that it isn't always the case. When the Mongols created by sheer terror one of the greatest empires of ancient times, so great Genghis has become common name, would we be right to say they demonstrated greater intelligence than all other nations of the world at that time? If yes, then for a period that lasted hundreds of years, the Mongols were the most intelligent?

Yes, what I base my argument upon. The most intelligent on average is most likely to be the most organised and developed.

Or while the black plague raged in Europe and the continent knew no development, would the Persians who, on their part, churned out algebra, geometry and other beautiful sciences have ranked as the most intelligent at this time?

I don't see why not.

Let's come home. As these so-called unintelligent Africans are able to "scam" millions of supposedly more intelligent (on the average) Westerners off their pay check through shady, though often ingenious, devices, does that make them rank any better in your estimation?

It actually requires a higher intellect to imagine and know ripple effects and repercussions of such activities do to the larger community. Judicial systems are concepts of sophisticated intelligence other primates have no such abilities thus have no such systems.

I think you are asking the wrong questions. Researches have shown repeatedly that man is merely a function of nature and nurture. Nothing more. A Lewis Hamilton would stand no chance in Nigeria. He wouldn't even know what formula one was if he lived in Nigeria.
Clearly, his circumstances have instead today made him into a champion.

No, the same could be said about you that you would stand no chance living in Russia in the winter but we know that is not the case. He may not be a formula one driver but it's very likely that he would survive. However, I think this is sort of unrelated perhaps I don't see the relationship but sophisticated systems, concepts and inventions begin with sophisticated thoughts by intellectually advanced individuals and such intellectual thinking to solve our problems is apparently lacking in sub-saharan Africa

We can have this argument if you want. I enjoy it.

The answer to the question is YES and the reason for that is low human development index and high illiteracy rate. We live in a region where meningitis is caused by the wrath of God. Kai!

dalaman:


I know these things better than you because I've lived in Europe and America for the past 12 years.I've worked in one of the biggest technology company in Germany. I only fully came back to Nigeria in 2015. I've been to NASA, ESA and CERN. There are black people working and doing well in all these places I've been to. But I still insist that the black race is yet to show the level of intelligence that the white man has shown. We've not shown the level of organization, leadership, creativity and understanding of how the world works like them period.

I've lived with them for the past 12 years. You haven't. I've also been around some African countries. I've been to Ghana, Kenya, Cameroun, Benin republic, Togo, Ivory Coast, Tanzania, Uganda and Malawi. It is the same nonsense that is going on in all these African countries that I've visited.

You need to convince me with tangible things not empty words.

It's rather pathetic to find such a widely-traveled person make this argument. Do you immediately tie "intelligence" to the "level of organization, leadership, creativity and understanding of how the world works"? If that's the case, can you mention which country you refer to specifically, because "the white man" is a rather broad generalization. And following your argument, I would suppose all "white men" themselves are not all equal in intelligence. So, which country is it?

Meanwhile, take a look at this pisa ranking for 2012. How is it that the United States, which lies way below the average on scoring, seems to be doing significantly better than China in terms of demonstrating the "level of organization, leadership, creativity and understanding of how the world works"?

My opinion, you should have provided your own reasons rather that in your opinion supersede mine.

sauerr:

This is such a tall and quite unsound argument to make. "You can only infer it could be genetic"? And it could be some other thing too? If you have no basic scientific support for your claim that it is genetic, I don't think it's wise to make that argument, especially when you could find a ton other reasons it "could" be.

dalaman:


I know these things better than you because I've lived in Europe and America for the past 12 years.I've worked in one of the biggest technology company in Germany. I only fully came back to Nigeria in 2015. I've been to NASA, ESA and CERN. There are black people working and doing well in all these places I've been to. But I still insist that the black race is yet to show the level of intelligence that the white man has shown. We've not shown the level of organization, leadership, creativity and understanding of how the world works like them period.

I've lived with them for the past 12 years. You haven't. I've also been around some African countries. I've been to Ghana, Kenya, Cameroun, Benin republic, Togo, Ivory Coast, Tanzania, Uganda and Malawi. It is the same nonsense that is going on in all these African countries that I've visited.

You need to convince me with tangible things not empty words.

And for some reason you believe that I've not lived abroad and visited these places ? But its not a contest , so I'll let this go

I still don't get it . If we have math , science , literature etc geniuses like they have , why do you think there's a disparity between the two ?

And concerning black inventors . Read this : http://www.biography.com/people/groups/famous-black-inventors

onyenze123:
The answer to the question is YES and the reason for that is low human development index and high illiteracy rate.

Therefore , white people just can't say foolish things ?

dalaman:

Why are we easily fooled and dominated by them?

Don't let the 'African princes' with their laptops see this . The white man is the best prey , so they say .

TheEminentLaity:

Yes, what I base my argument upon. The most intelligent on average is most likely to be the most organised and developed.

Effectively, you have summed "intelligence", rounded it and shut it up in box. Clearly, you demonstrate more open-mindedness than that. Intelligence certainly isn't only a function of "organization and development". Genghis Khan's war strategies were not the epitome of organization, even though he achieved world domination with it. Instead, they were unique at the time. And when the Islamic golden age fell apart in the 14th century, the "intelligence" of the natives didn't immediately evaporate with the disorganization that followed. I think you need to reassess your underlying argument.

I don't see why not.

Your admission, which is inevitable anyways, simply disproves your claim. If the Persians were the most intelligent at that time (and by the same reasoning, are no longer the most intelligent today), shouldn't that mean that your denigrated sub-Saharan Africans could become the most intelligent tomorrow?

It actually requires a higher intellect to imagine and know ripple effects and repercussions of such activities do to the larger community. Judicial systems are concepts of sophisticated intelligence other primates have no such abilities thus have no such systems.

That's your claim. For some others, the fact that these supposedly unintelligent (on the average, you say) sub-Saharan Africans are able to outwit the largely (on the average) intelligent Americans is an indication that they (the sub-Saharan African) are probably smarter. We must confess, the FBI often has to play catch up with their latest "yahoo" inventions.

No, the same could be said about you that you would stand no chance living in Russia in the winter but we know that is not the case. He may not be a formula one driver but it's very likely that he would survive. However, I think this is sort of unrelated perhaps I don't see the relationship but sophisticated systems, concepts and inventions begin with sophisticated thoughts by intellectually advanced individuals and such intellectual thinking to solve our problems is apparently lacking in sub-saharan Africa

Of course he would survive. But the question is if he would have become the outstanding formula one driver he is today. It would have been easy to make the claim that blacks can't simply race a formula one, were a Lewis Hamilton not present in the series. You see my argument? Yet, Lewis is really not doing anything special. He's simply a human who got an opportunity.

@ dalaman

This should end the argument ... Thank God !

Here is a pdf document containing names of black inventors from 1845-1980 : http://wbcp1580.com/blkinvlist.pdf

I understand that the black people never got legal right to their inventions while some lost the right to their inventions to their white slave masters .


You can also peruse this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_African-American_inventors_and_scientists

KingEbukaNaija:


Therefore , white people just can't say foolish things ?

I don't get your question, could you come again?

I'm in agreement with a lot you have here, especially that intelligence morphs and it isn't static. However, it might be an over-stretching leap to infer that it could be genetic, because I cannot say, but I do not rule that possibility out despite my race being the subject. I mentioned here that even if it was us not meeting our potential, how do we even measure that when we are not even trying at all. It seems the world is passing us by but we are only getting increasingly superstitious from religious affiliations.

I have always harped on about solid science education for liberation and I'm very antagonistic towards religious beliefs especially our nigerian model because it occupies otherwise productive minds and fills their minds up with nonsense, unproductive, useless nonsense. I understand it changes some people but I am repulsed by it and its potency in holding black people back and making them comfortable.

Education would change a lot but currently it doesn't look like we have shown intellectual superiority.

sauerr:


Your reasoning in terms of averages is certainly valid. I also agree that we should look at this subject through non-emotional lenses, as objectively as possible.

Of course, you'd agree that if the average is high in any society, then that society should be developed. Of the highly intelligent people, who are numerous, there should arise at least one man who would be able to take the society (or country) to the promise land. In that sense, I grant you that on the average, Nigerians are certainly less intelligent than Americans, for example. Now, taking the leap from here to the claim that this suggests Nigerians (or sub-Saharan Africans, if you like) are overall doomed to being generally less intelligent than other races portends taking a blind leap devoid of evidentiary support. By making this claim, you are suggesting that "it is in the genes" and there is not much the sub-Saharan average can do about being any more intelligent than they are destined to be. That's where I think you are getting it wrong.

If anything has been proven any more clearly in that hundred years of human advancement, it is that intelligence is not a set attribute, just as it is regarded that behaviour is not a set attribute. Intelligence morphs over time, taking different forms of expression dependent on the "nurture" or "environment" it is exposed to. That the mathematical ingenuity of Isaac Newton gave way to phantom alchemic exprimentations in his latter days says nothing about how truly intelligent he was; that the great Benjamin Franklin originally owned and dealt in slaves reveals nothing about how open and unbounded his thoughts were. So, what yardsticks can you then use to define the intelligence of a society or of a people? Certainly not the fact that they are unable to create a functioning society by themselves when they themselves are yet to "averagely" rise up the intellectual scale. Or would you? This is where you give them good education first and liberate them (just as was done with Franklin's and Newton's societies!). Again, nurture!

TheEminentLaity:
I'm in agreement with a lot you have here, especially that intelligence morphs and it isn't static. However, it might be an over-stretching leap to infer that it could be genetic, because I cannot say, but I do not rule that possibility out despite my race being the subject. I mentioned here that even if it was us not meeting our potential, how do we even measure that when we are not even trying at all. It seems the world is passing us by but we are only getting increasingly superstitious from religious affiliations.

I have always harped on about solid science education for liberation and I'm very antagonistic towards religious beliefs especially our nigerian model because it occupies otherwise productive minds and fills their minds up with nonsense, unproductive, useless nonsense. I understand it changes some people but I am repulsed by it and its potency in holding black people back and making them comfortable.

Education would change a lot but currently it doesn't look like we have shown intellectual superiority.

You keep blaming religion for your woes while the people who made these remarkable inventions and scientific discoveries and theories were religious and very superstitious . Even few atheists who managed to make discoveries are religious .

The Chinese are very superstitious people yet it didn't preclude them from being at the forefront of industrialization and economical growth .

Steve Jobs was an atheist as well as a Buddhist . Sir Tim Berners-Lee , is an atheist , a founder of the WWW , is a member of Unitarian Universalism seeking spiritual enlightenment .

I still maintain that Nigerian atheists are not intellectually bright people .

TheEminentLaity:
I'm in agreement with a lot you have here, especially that intelligence morphs and it isn't static. However, it might be an over-stretching leap to infer that it could be genetic, because I cannot say, but I do not rule that possibility out despite my race being the subject. I mentioned here that even if it was us not meeting our potential, how do we even measure that when we are not even trying at all. It seems the world is passing us by but we are only getting increasingly superstitious from religious affiliations.

I have always harped on about solid science education for liberation and I'm very antagonistic towards religious beliefs especially our nigerian model because it occupies otherwise productive minds and fills their minds up with nonsense, unproductive, useless nonsense. I understand it changes some people but I am repulsed by it and its potency in holding black people back and making them comfortable.

Education would change a lot but currently it doesn't look like we have shown intellectual superiority.

I share your sentiments a 100%. I am also repulsed by these religious dogmas and what they have unleashed on a hapless population. I am not religious, neither am I a christian. However, we mustn't forget that 17-18th century Europe was riddled with as much religiousity as the Nigeria of today. Similarly, the belief in witches and transmogrification (more like what currently obtains in Nigeria) thrived without bounds in Europe only a few hundred years ago. Were they then not intelligent at that time? Obviously not. That Nigeria, or maybe the many black countries, suffer today from the consequences of 18th century beliefs is certainly not a testament to the innate unintelligence of the whole mass. We only need look at today's intelligent Europe, which once entertained the exact same beliefs, in order to realize that Nigeria (or perhaps many other black countries) is only yet to obtain its illuminating enlightenment. When it does (certainly by education and nurture), the result will no doubt be a revelation that, on the average, the whole mass is not lacking in intelligence.

Now, the big question is, why can't they just simply learn from history and move on gladly beyond this medieval thinking? Again, nurture! What they get in today's schools, universities and from persons of authority is certainly not enough (we know how bad they are). Just a little more, and we certainly can get there.

Also, if intelligence does morph over time (to which you agree), who is to say the right kind of enabling environment cannot unleash the intelligence resident in the sub-Saharan African? The intelligence progressively observed with yahoo-yahoo?
I do think it is indeed an over-stretching leap to tie this to genetics. What exactly about genetics? The DNA? What item of genetics? I am only curious. Genetics after all is material.

dalaman:


If we are equally intelligent then why aren't we creating susperb systems like them? Why aren't we able to organize ourselves and create functional societies like theirs. Why aren't we able to solve our problems like them? Why aren't we making groud breaking discoveries and inventing things like them? Why are we easily fooled and dominated by them?

*smiles* no one can deny the fact that we have failed to attain dominance as a race. BUT is it because we are incapable of high level of reasoning? Absolutely No.
Let's stop making it seem it is a genetic or race issue. It is about our retrogresive priorities as a people, not because of Negroism, not because we are black, but because of the society we have. One were it is easier to blame spiritual forces for our woes than to take responsibility. Even that ability is a proof of intelligence, refusing to take responsibility actually requires high level of intelligence. But it has been our bane. We are capable of achieving all that has ever been achieved by anyother race, but it would take a lot to wipe out our cultural issues which makes us laid-back and irresponsible, misdirected and unmotivated for anything beyond what our culture celebrates

hahn:


I will like to know Ifenes opinion on this

You cannot solve problems like them because our societies( typical African societies) are shaped differently. We are naturally more in tune with nature and preservation of the planet. The white man is all about survival and destruction. I don't think that itself is intelligence. You see the animals, fish sticking to their natural habitat, not because they are less intelligent, but for the fact that they cannot be bothered to be the jack of all trades and masters of none

We know technology is a good thing just as it can also be a huge curse. How has the white man solved his problems so far? Look at world war 1 and 2, these guys almost eliminated themselves due to power sruggles. Was that the right solutions to conflict. Perhaps Africans have learned and realised the need for us to enjoy the planet without causing ourselves unnecessary headaches with technology.

It's been said that the planet itself had been desolated about 6 times with technology. Could we be staying out of it due to a knowledge we ones had? Could that be the reason we rather watch the over- zealous white babies build atomic bombs capable of destroying the planet 4 times? What intelligence comes from having a toxic weapon that can destroy the entire human race.

Intelligence shouldn't be interpreted alone in developing terrific scientific gadget. I think intelligent should be understand the way we could put our minds to work on relevant stuff

How come these so called superior race haven't figured out how to replicate the pyramids built by the ancient ( most likely blacks). The White man is not helping anyone by building technology but instead is making himself a slave to it. Are we better if using a calculator or high developed retentive memory? Time will tell. To me they haven't solved anything.

Of course they had to be organised because they are the ones without resources. The predators are often the ones to carve out means to hunt. What eventually happens to super- predators? Nature makes them go extinct.

sauerr:

It's rather pathetic to find such a widely-traveled person make this argument. Do you immediately tie "intelligence" to the "level of organization, leadership, creativity and understanding of how the world works"? If that's the case, can you mention which country you refer to specifically, because "the white man" is a rather broad generalization. And following your argument, I would suppose all "white men" themselves are not all equal in intelligence. So, which country is it?

Meanwhile, take a look at this pisa ranking for 2012. How is it that the United States, which lies way below the average on scoring, seems to be doing significantly better than China in terms of demonstrating the "level of organization, leadership, creativity and understanding of how the world works"?

Yes, I've tied intelligence to those things I've outlined and the sub saharan African is yet to show that he had the ability the way others have, period.

You can't solve any of your problems yet 6ou are busy insisting that you are equally as intelligent as those that have solved most of their problems as a people.

How have we the sub saharan Africans shown that we are equally as intelligent as the Europeans. Give me tangible examples please based on our ability to organize our selves like them and solve our problems, our creativity and ingenuity, our good leadership abilities, our ability to set trend for other to follow, our ability to dominate others and make them do as we want. I am not a self hating person. I just state things as they are. They have shown and displayed intelligence that we haven't been able to display period. Right now the president of Nigeria the most populous black nation in sub saharan Africa is in an undisclosed location in UK enjoying what they've built. Many people in Nigeria don't see anything wrong with it because they keep perpetuating the system.

This is a good one.

sauerr:

Effectively, you have summed "intelligence", rounded it and shut it up in box. Clearly, you demonstrate more open-mindedness than that. Intelligence certainly isn't only a function of "organization and development". Genghis Khan's war strategies were not the epitome of organization, even though he achieved world domination with it. Instead, they were unique at the time. And when the Islamic golden age fell apart in the 14th century, the "intelligence" of the natives didn't immediately evaporate with the disorganization that followed. I think you need to reassess your underlying argument.

Interesting.

Your admission, which is inevitable anyways, simply disproves your claim. If the Persians were the most intelligent at that time (and by the same reasoning, are no longer the most intelligent today), shouldn't that mean that your denigrated sub-Saharan Africans could become the most intelligent tomorrow?

Yes, it does. Thanks for pointing that out. However, it doesn't necessarily rule out the possibility of genetics for underdevelopment and absence of original sophisticated systems by black africans. Even in Europe, ancient Spain was once the most sophisticated I think, but they are not anymore but from the link I posted on Neanderthal (gone extinct, had larger brains) genes present in those that live outside Africa, still gives credence to that. The study indicates that the african is significantly different from other races.

That's your claim. For some others, the fact that these supposedly unintelligent (on the average, you say) sub-Saharan Africans are able to outwit the largely (on the average) intelligent Americans is an indication that they (the sub-Saharan African) are probably smarter. We must confess, the FBI often has to play catch up with their latest "yahoo" inventions.

Yahoo inventions I disagree totally. Nigerians are not the best hackers in the world, neither are they the best computer geeks, I believe those require much higher level of intelligence than sending emails about the death of a billionaire chairman. Creation of sophisticated systems is a good indicator very advanced intellect in the world today. If those 'smart' yahoo guys could design and develop say FB they would be into fraud in the first place. And by the way, it's easy for them to be caught by the FBI, it's only a matter of priorities.

Of course he would survive. But the question is if he would have become the outstanding formula one driver he is today. It would have been easy to make the claim that blacks can't simply race a formula one, were a Lewis Hamilton not present in the series. You see my argument? Yet, Lewis is really not doing anything special. He's simply a human who got an opportunity.

Oh yeah, so true. This is actually in line with the person that talked about east africans and long sprinting.

dalaman:


Yes, I've tied intelligence to those things I've outlined and the sub saharan African is yet to show that he had the ability the way others have, period.

You can't solve any of your problems yet 6ou are busy insisting that you are equally as intelligent as those that have solved most of their problems as a people.

How have we the sub saharan Africans shown that we are equally as intelligent as the Europeans. Give me tangible examples please based on our ability to organize our selves like them and solve our problems, our creativity and ingenuity, our good leadership abilities, our ability to set trend for other to follow, our ability to dominate others and make them do as we want. I am not a self hating person. I just state things as they are. They have shown and displayed intelligence that we haven't been able to display period. Right now the president of Nigeria the most populous black nation in sub saharan Africa is in an undisclosed location in UK enjoying what they've built. Many people in Nigeria don't see anything wrong with it because they keep perpetuating the system.

Again, you make the same arguments, but you didn't answer any of my own questions. I asked, "which country is it?". "The white man" is too broad a generalization. And why does the United States score consistently low on pisa scores, but demonstrate the most functioning society on earth? A cursory observation confirms the US has scored consistently lower over the years as more countries (especially Asian ones) up their level of nurture for students.

Now, to you argument. I repeat, intelligence does not end with demonstrating a functioning society, solving your problems, good leadership abilities, etc. It encompasses that and much more, but is strongly determined by anyone's present constitution. That's just the simple truth. A man locked up in a prison cell who desires to see sunlight badly will begin conjuring up fantastic means of escape from his cell and may eventually become exhaustively good at it. Of course, provided that his is priority. Another man would simply sleep on in his cell, not minding when his freedom would come. Does this mean that the second man is unable to conjure up escape methods if he puts his mind to it? Don't say "no"; you can't imagine the creativity desperation inspires.

I agree with your assessment that we have not demonstrated the same level of intelligence as these Europeans. That's as far as I go with you. I see no basis for arriving at the conclusion that following this, we are doomed unable to demonstrate the same level of intelligence as Europeans, irrespective of how much we set out mind to it or how much nurture we get while doing that. Like the man who has set his mind to sleep on and not be bothered, we are not attempting to conjure up escape methods. That, however, does not preclude the fact that we can do it if we get an enabling environment. The best teacher in the US gets a 1m dollar prize; the best teacher in Nigeria does not get anything close of one tenth of that. Doesn't that say something?

KingEbukaNaija:
@ dalaman

This should end the argument ... Thank God !

Here is a pdf document containing names of black inventors from 1845-1980 : http://wbcp1580.com/blkinvlist.pdf

I understand that the black people never got legal right to their inventions while some lost the right to their inventions to their white slave masters .


You can also peruse this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_African-American_inventors_and_scientists

My brother, I am not saying that there aren't black inventors. What I am saying is that we haven't displayed their level of ingenuity and creativity.