Trudax:


Every civilization has had its highs and its lows, but the ability to rise up from a low is what defines a society. The Chinese were able to tackle their leadership problem, but why hasn't Africa been able to get theirs right? And China is just one nation. Sub-saharan Africa is a region comprising of various nations all experiencing similar problems and all not being able to deal with them.

Also, before China experienced their fall, they experienced years of unprecedented advancements. The Chinese had already invented a robust system of writing by 500BC. The Chinese invented paper during the 2nd century AD, years before our sub-saharan civilizations achieved their heights. Before the 14th century, China was miles ahead of Europe.

You're being quite selective here in your discussion of "Africa", because your claims make no sense if one accepts that black nations like Nubia, Aksum and Ethiopia are no longer "African". All of these countries were reading and writing either well before most Europeans, or at about the same time. It's not as if the Europeans invented any of writing, paper or printing either, yet nobody takes that as proof of their innate intellectual inferiority. Let's also not forget that even in West Africa, places like Songhai and Mali were places of literature and scholarship many centuries ago, well before any white men reached West Africa's shores.

omohayek:

Yes, you read me right. The real problem with Africa is people like you, who cling to ridiculous bronze age superstitions while rejecting any scientific findings which might undermine their precious myths, going further to reject the scientific method outright. All the progress that has happened in Europe and Asia over the last few centuries has been because men have been willing to question, experiment, and challenge received opinion, rather than simply folding their hands and saying "God wills it!", or running off to a pastor or imam for a miraculous solution through prayer.

Go back and address the points I made , please . Or did they elude you . If the Ancient Greeks who were Hellenistic polytheists and had religious cults and the Chinese who were superstitious could develop themselves intellectually , then religion and superstition aren't culpable for our intellectual deficiency .

I also mentioned the ancient atheist Charvaka school and atheist religion intolerant countries and asked you why they couldn't develop themselves intellectually since they didn't have religion or superstition that you surmised must have encumbered us intellectually as Africans . Please give me a reasonable answer , please

KingEbukasBlog:


Intelligence has nothing to do with colour . There is only one race , the human race . The Asians are made to understand the importance of education and studying . They are instilled with moral discipline and are trained to value anything intellectual . Failure in education is frowned at . The Asian kids also engage in high cognitive tasks like learning mathematics with abacus.

It is not true. Some race have shown to be more intelligent than others. Man pass man and that is no lie.

Right now in developed countries , children are taught to be self aware in order to control their emotions e.g breathing buddies . They are also taught ways to improve their willpower .Willpower (self discipline ) is destiny . Children who are taught to control their impulses go on to achieve great things in life when they are adults . New teaching methods and activities to improve cognitive abilities are being developed everyday . Do you know that horse-back riding improves cognitive skills ? And I'm sure this new discovery would soon be used to consolidate their already intellectually intensive extra-curricular activities .

All these training have not been incorporated into our education system and in our homes . I mean how would you compete with the products of these foreign educational systems when we still use obsolete dysfunctional methods in the training of our children ?

Why are we unable to discover or invent these new things? Why is it always them that are able to discover or invent these new things? Why can't we invent ways to train ourselves and make ourselves better in understanding and conquering our environment? Why must it be them teaching us or discovering these things?

dalaman:


It is not true. Some race have shown to be more intelligent than others. Man pass man and that is no lie.

Evidence sir . You should adduce something to prove this claim .

Why are we unable to discover or invent these new things? Why is it always them that are able to discover or invent these new things? Why can't we invent ways to train ourselves and make ourselves better in understanding and conquering our environment? Why must it be them teaching us or discovering these things?

Who said we didn't invent things like the foreigners ? The stupendous pyramids of Egypt which have marveled modern day architects , who built them ? Who developed the plans ? What about the tombs of the Egyptian Pharaohs ? Do you know how spectacularly designed they are ? Who is enshrouding you seeing from these facts ? Your white friends ? Do you feel inferior to them ? Oh Dalaman

KingEbukasBlog:


Go back and address the points I made , please . Or did they elude you . If the Ancient Greeks who were Hellenistic polytheists and had religious cults and the Chinese who were superstitious could develop themselves intellectually , then religion and superstition aren't culpable for our intellectual deficiency .

I also mentioned the ancient atheist Charvaka school and atheist religion intolerant countries and asked you why they couldn't develop themselves intellectually since they didn't have religion or superstition that you surmised must have encumbered us intellectually as Africans . Please give me a reasonable answer , please

All you're doing here is revealing your rank ignorance, along with your pretentious usage of terms and places you have no more than a superficial acquaintance with. What do you really know of the Greeks who were responsible for giving birth to philosophy or mathematics? Can you tell me who the first of the Greek philosophers were, where in Greece they came from, and what they believed? What was the chain of succession in their thought, and how did each one modify the ideas of his predecessor?

As for your reference to China, again, I dare you to demonstrate that you know anything whatsoever about Chinese thought and history beyond the most superficial things you can dig up in a quick Google search. This is an area to which I've been particularly devoted over the years, so I'll enjoy getting into the details of it all and revealing your ignorance for the world to see. Why don't we start with a few easy questions: do you know what "legalism" is, how it arose, and what role it came to play in the Chinese philosophy of governance? What was the context in which Confucius put together his teachings, and how were they spread after his death? How exactly has Confucianism been synthesized with legalism and Daoism in Chinese thought? Please, go ahead and give us your take on these questions, I'll be waiting ...

You might be able to fool a few ignorant Nigerians on here with your pseudo-intellectual ramblings, but on this occasion you've run into someone who knows far more about the topics you're trying to cloak your nonsense with than you can ever hope to learn.

KingEbukasBlog:


Evidence sir . You should adduce something to prove this claim .

I've dropped them already . Why are we unable to solve our problems? Some races have shown their abilities to solve their problems. Why aren't we trend setters? You are a christian because some people conquered your lands and we're able to convince/ force your ancestors to drop their God ideas and religion and accept theirs. You speak the language of the invaders and colonialist. They have too much and over bearing influence on our lives. We have little or no influenceon theirs. Their creative abilities completely over weighs ours. They have conquered the world while we are still struggling to feed ourselves.

Who said we didn't invent things like the foreigners ? The stupendous pyramids of Egypt which have marveled modern day architects , who built them ? Who developed the plans ? What about the tombs of the Egyptian Pharaohs ? Do you know how spectacular designed they are ? Who is shrouding you seeing from these facts ? Your white friends ? Do you feel inferior to them ? Oh Dalaman

Invent what? Of what use are the pyramids to humanity? Name one invention that the black race has invented that has helped humanity like the auto mobile or the Internet.

omohayek:

You're being quite selective here in your discussion of "Africa", because your claims make no sense if one accepts that black nations like Nubia, Aksum and Ethiopia are no longer "African". All of these countries were reading and writing either well before most Europeans, or at about the same time. It's not as if the Europeans invented any of writing, paper or printing either, yet nobody takes that as proof of their innate intellectual inferiority. Let's also not forget that even in West Africa, places like Songhai and Mali were places of literature and scholarship many centuries ago, well before any white men reached West Africa's shores.

I am not being selective. As you can read from my very first post, I made it clear that I was referring to sub-saharan Africa. The part of Africa that comprise of mainly black people. The Nubian civilization and the Ethiopian Kush civilizations aren't your typical sub-saharan civilization. These civilizations spanned lots of north African regions, Axum even spread into the middle east, and received influences from these regions, both cultural and genetic. There is a huge difference between Ethiopia as it is today, and its empire. It's like saying the Roman empire was present day Italy.

No one invented writing. Different civilizations had their own forms of writing. Europe didn't invent paper, China did, but Europe invented the printing press.

Wrong. Places like Mali were basically colonized by the Arabs. If you doubt me, google the leaders of the Malian empire. They had Arabic names. This infiltration of Arabs into Mali was during the period of massive Islamic success and expansion. They expanded into the Iberian Peninsula and Northern Africa. They didn't spread further down south, but they reached the areas that were part of the Malian empire. So most of what you are attributing to the Malian empire is essentially a product of the Islamic golden era that began in the middle east. The libraries you are referring to were Islamic libraries. The books there were in Arabic.

KingEbukasBlog:


Evidence sir . You should adduce something to prove this claim .




Who said we didn't invent things like the foreigners ? The stupendous pyramids of Egypt which have marveled modern day architects , who built them ? Who developed the plans ? What about the tombs of the Egyptian Pharaohs ? Do you know how spectacularly designed they are ? Who is enshrouding you seeing from these facts ? Your white friends ? Do you feel inferior to them ? Oh Dalaman

Ancient Egyptians weren't your typical black African community like the ones you'd have found in ancient Benin or Ghana kingdom. They were a mixed population, comprising of a phenotypically diverse group of people. Some looking like your present day Berbers, some bearing similarities to present day Egyptians, some resembling present day Ethiopians and some bearing features similar to you and I. So it was a mixed culture and its success shouldn't be a attributed to any particular race.

Trudax:


I am not being selective. As you can read from my very first post, I made it clear that I was referring to sub-saharan Africa. The part of Africa that comprise of mainly black people. The Nubian civilization and the Ethiopian Kush civilizations aren't your typical sub-saharan civilization. These civilizations spanned lots of north African regions, Axum even spread into the middle east, and received influences from these regions, both cultural and genetic. There is a huge difference between Ethiopia as it is today, and its empire. It's like saying the Roman empire was present day Italy.

This is nonsense. There is clear, well-established genetic and cultural continuity between the peoples who live in those regions today, and those who lived there 2,000 years ago, and the "reasons" you choose to exclude them from sub-Saharan Africa are ridiculous, because they are, as a matter of geographical fact, in sub-Saharan Africa. Excluding Aksum from the region because it might have extended into the Middle East is basically saying "I exclude any sub-Saharan African peoples who defy the stereotype I want to propagate"; it's nothing more than special pleading on your part.

No one invented writing. Different civilizations had their own forms of writing.

Rubbish, and easily disproved by a simple Google search. Writing was only invented 2 or 3 times in all of human history, once in the Middle East, (arguably) once in China (though some scholars suggest that here the idea also originally came from the Middle East), and once in the Americas.

Europe didn't invent paper, China did, but Europe invented the printing press.

Again, you get a basic and easily checkable fact wrong. China invented the printing press! All that Johannes Gutenberg "invented" was the process of movable type, and the Chinese could never have come up with that as they didn't employ an alphabet.

Wrong. Places like Mali were basically colonized by the Arabs. If you doubt me, google the leaders of the Malian empire. They had Arabic names. This infiltration of Arabs into Mali was during the period of massive Islamic success and expansion. They expanded into the Iberian Peninsula and Northern Africa. They didn't spread further down south, but they reached the areas that were part of the Malian empire. So most of what you are attributing to the Malian empire is essentially a product of the Islamic golden era that began in the middle east. The libraries you are referring to were Islamic libraries. The books there were in Arabic.

Pure trash. Why not provide the references for these "Arab invasions" if you have them? And while you're at it, you'd better apply this standard of yours to Europe as well, and take away from the Europeans all credit for anything they might have learned from Arabs, from algebra and Arabic numerals, to all the works of Greek antiquity that were transmitted through Arab translations. Something tells me you won't be quite so eager to apply your illogical reasoning in the European context, however ...

Either you're an ignorant, misguided, self-loathing black person, or (more likely) you're another pseudo-intellectual racist slowpoke who has wandered here from some cesspool like voat or 4chan, in the hope of trolling people you consider "beneath" you, despite being a basement dweller with no more than a sub-par education and a room temperature IQ.

dalaman:


If we understand the dynamics of human development and are equally as intelligent as them we would have been like them period. Look at the nonsense that is going on in black Africa. We can't lead ourselves, we can't invent anything, we can't create system or add any value chain to the world as a whole, but we can only keep crying that we are just as intelligent. It's not by mouth but by deeds, if we are equally intelligent, then we should show it. No long talk.

You are one of very few sincere persons Brother, who would admit without sentiments thst somrthing is fundamentalllly wrong with black race..

Trudax:


Ancient Egyptians weren't your typical black African community like the ones you'd have found in ancient Benin or Ghana kingdom. They were a mixed population, comprising of a phenotypically diverse group of people. Some looking like your present day Berbers, some bearing similarities to present day Egyptians, some resembling present day Ethiopians and some bearing features similar to you and I. So it was a mixed culture and its success shouldn't be a attributed to any particular race.

What are the pyramids compared to the international space centre or the hubble space telescope? KingEbukasBlog should tel us what the black race have created that has benefited humanity like the hubble space telescope.

We all know the truth but since it's a very sensitive one especially with a terribly gruesome history to include eugenics... people tend not to talk about it especially when we all know who the victims would be...I agree with you that language is a very good indicator of the level of sophistication of a people. My native language isn't, and I guess it isn't much different from other neighbouring tribes...not sure if we even developed a written form of communication.
There's been a lot of research about intellectual disparities according to races but it's just not popular. For instance, it has been found that genes of Neanderthals - whom had the large brains - are present in Asians, caucasians .. but absent in the African negro, giving more plausibility to the interbreeding theory for their extinction.
I hope easy access to information on the internet would lead to our own renaissance and emancipation as a people. I hope although sometimes I wish I could just look away and not care at all like the politicians and religious leaders. I mean, it's sickening to hear young black africans desiring colonisation by the whites over again, because honestly it cannot be this bad. At least there would be decent healthcare.

I was having a talk along these lines with my cousin who is pro-black, black-power, the-white-man-is-the-devil, Elijah Mohammed etc type person and he argued that our persistent underdevelopment is as a result of 300+ years of trans-atlantic slavery but it is just one of our favourite excuses. A look at other formerly colonised nations like India - who got their independence about a decade before Nigeria - that recently sent over 100 mini-satellites to space on a single space vessel, at first attempt, beating the previous record of over 30 by Russia shows a country that is serious. Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia etc are light years ahead of us.

Israel is not to be messed with on any level of science and technology. They export advanced military technology to the US and have the most tech companies on the Fortune 100, for such a small country that almost had all its people wiped out the surface of the earth. The country with the most Nobel Laureates in the Sciences and man do they mean their "Never again" slogan. Never again will a deranged despot in power rise again to annihilate them. Never! but ironically the religious ones think it's the christian god that is responsible and not possession of Nuclear weapons and highly sophisticated weapons of warfare

Currently, the black man is at the bottom of the food chain. Look at us, a country that has still not yet seen the need for education, we cannot even create a functioning society. We have crude oil but it's too much trouble, or rather too tech advanced for us to refine. So we sell and import refined crude products Now we take our health problems to India. The other day GEJ blamed Obama and the west for his monumental failure and defeat...tells a lot about him as a person and us in general. His wife brazenly goes to the bank to withdraw 'her' multi-million dollar monetary gift. I am from the south-south and it's just a mad house, these people are from villages that don't even have good drinking water and they still shit in rivers...Look at Deizani, Chevening scholar, University of Cambridge, you would think such would know better and behave differently she is still alive today because of a functioning healthcare system and competent doctors otherwise, absolutely no chance if it were in Nigeria. To think that these people would steal so much and take it back to the land of their colonisers only supports the narrative. So, it surely has to be genetic. The counter evidence only has to prove otherwise because going by observation the negro race is by far the least intelligent and organised. Look elsewhere at the other leaders and countries of black Africa, similar sordid tales of oppression, poverty and superstition are highly prevalent.

Some people might ask "Yes, we know but what are you doing about all these?" I have come to the point now where I laugh and respond with "What has Nigeria done for me?...The people it fed, educated and housed like GEJ etc what did they do for Nigeria or its future? The worst part of the current situation is that there is a growing multitude of uneducated young people and potential barbarians up north that might as well end up in the civil service or religious fundamentalism, yet their people don't see Almajiri or Islamic indoctrination as a problem, why should I? It's hard enough trying to provide even the most basic amenities for my family. When it's time for a referendum, wake me up because that's the only thing that would take my butt off this couch..na siddon look I dey"

OP 'The Bell Curve' was very controversial, it should have data that shows some of these things you talk about.

Interesting gist.

Excerpt From: Richard Dawkins. “The God delusion.”

“Thomas Henry Huxley, by the standards of his times, was an enlightened and liberal progressive. But his times were not ours, and in 1871 he wrote the following:
No rational man, cognizant of the facts, believes that the average negro is the equal, still less the superior, of the white man. And if this be true, it is simply incredible that, when all his disabilities are removed, and our prognathous relative has a fair field and no favor, as well as no oppressor, he will be able to compete successfully with his bigger-brained and smaller-jawed rival, in a contest which is to “be carried on by thoughts and not by bites. The highest places in the hierarchy of civilisation will assuredly not be within the reach of our dusky cousins”

Maybe this should have been taken as a challenge

Trudax:


Isn't the act of consciously repeatedly setting up impediments to intellectual exploration and expansion a marker of unintelligence, especially among the majority who create these impediments?

Why do you think they aren't genetic when we know that smart parents give birth to smart kids? Also, since behaviors and physical traits are heritable, hence genetic, why is intelligence any different?

Trudax:
Are sub-saharan Africans intellectually inferior on the average to other races?

If we accede to the fact that intelligence is heritable and we also agree that the environment places certain constraints on the individuals living within that environment, and these constraints influence the evolution of these individuals, then why can't we agree that intelligence should vary among human populations who evolved in different environments? Why do we oppose any claim that asserts the superiority or inferiority of a certain race in comparison to another race, when obviously they evolved in unique environments with unique constraints?

If we agree that natural selection is the vehicle that has driven genetic and phenotypical disparities evident in different races, why then do we oppose views that assert the disparities in intelligence, given the fact that intelligence has genetic underpinnings?

Evolution has no goals, it is only concerned with the survival of species.

There is no model that evolution must or should follow.
Despite living apart, fire, crossbow and blast furnace were
independently invented in China, Europe and Africa which
point to the fact that Homo Sapiens, regardless of race,
will adapt when necessary.

Modern anthropologists understand that race is a social construct
not genetics, the human genome project also dealt a death blow
to the "biological race" concept, the variation within the so-called
"distinct" race range from 80-90%, not exactly what the genetics-based
race advocate had expected.

All claims must be backed by evidence, so the statement that
sub-saharan africans are intellectually inferior is a baseless one.
Anyone can make a statement, but it will take more than that to
convince any rational individual.

We don't just agree that phenotypical disparities exist among races,
there is demonstrable evidence for it.

dalaman:


I've dropped them already . Why are we unable to solve our problems? Some races have shown their abilities to solve their problems. Why aren't we trend setters? You are a christian because some people conquered your lands and we're able to convince/ force your ancestors to drop their God ideas and religion and accept theirs. You speak the language of the invaders and colonialist. They have too much and over bearing influence on our lives. We have little or no influenceon theirs. Their creative abilities completely over weighs ours. They have conquered the world while we are still struggling to feed ourselves.

Invent what? Of what use are the pyramids to humanity? Name one invention that the black race has invented that has helped humanity like the auto mobile or the Internet.

Hold on sir . Are we talking about the black race or just Africa ?

plaetton:


Hhhhmmm.

It's difficult to honestly answer this question without appearing self-deprecating.

Going by the letter of the question, my answer is yes( and many will come for my head).

Intellectually inferior in the sense that we , our entire cultural setups are somewhat impediments to intellectual exploration and expansion.

Our intellectual shortcomings are by NO means, and let me emphasize it, BY No means genetic, but due to accumulated and entrenched cultural/religious norms and habits.

N:B
And let me emphasize that I personally make a distinction between intelligence and intellectual expression.
The difference between the two are culture.
Every human is embued with intelligence. Intellectualism is the expression of that innate intelligence.

Some cultures foster the expression of intelligence, intellectualism, while many cultures, such as we have in subsahara Africa, impedes the expression of that innate intelligence.

I hope the above makes some sense.
I am not even sure it does.

You made sense to me and I must say that was brilliant

ooman:
Plaetton, Deepsight, long time.

Hmm.

Trudax:
More of my arguments.

I rather largely agree with your posts, especially on the blame thing. Someone once said there are two approaches to a problem. A proactive person seeks solutions first and apportions blames later. A static person blames, then looks for solutions. I think there is a third - blame first, blame later and blame always which is what we in sub-Saharan Africa largely do. We never like to think we might be a part of the problem but instead we favour the thoughts that everyone but ourselves are at fault for everything wrong. It's this lack of introspection that informs are general lack of trust in each other and proliferates divisions that keep us perpetually underdeveloped. The average Americans or Europeans or even East Asians may have diverse religions, cultures, languages and political ideologies but once it's time to set all of that aside to work towards a common, mutually-beneficial goal, everything else takes a backseat. But here in SubSaharan Africa, we keep on accentuating and highlighting our differences, even at the expense of our individual and/or collective development.

To answer the OP, well, I wouldn't say we are genetically intellectually inferior. People of SubSaharan African extraction have shown themselves able to more than match their foreign counterparts when they are exposed to the right systems and made to adopt the right mindsets and mentalities. Unfortunately, we are a continent that's culturally regressive or stagnant and this plays a huge role in how we think, behave and solve problems.

The average SubSaharan African has learnt to be skeptical of change and adventure - hence we rarely ever discover anything new in spite of the fact that there is a lot to discover here. Sometimes we watch blooper videos and extreme sports and are like "white people are just crazy". However, it's that "craziness" that has pushed them to expand horizons and discover new frontiers. The average SubSaharan African is taught and moulded to conform. That is why we generally don't think critically and lack curiosity and creativity, two important building blocks of innovation, invention and discovery.

In our schools we are taught to accept what the book says. Never to question it, research on it or seek alternative opinions. It's this culture that is so scared of change, the unknown and unaccounted-for possibilities that keeps us exactly where we are.

As a different poster above said, the problem is mainly cultural, not genetic.

KingEbukasBlog:


Hold on sir . Are we talking about the black race or just Africa ?

The OP is clear. He mentioned sub saharan Africa.

Catholic church brought modern science to the world...................WHAT!!!! this guy hasn't changed at all even has the audacity to be lying with confidence, What kind of fuckery is that?

TheEminentLaity:
We all know the truth but since it's a very sensitive one especially with a terribly gruesome history to include eugenics... people tend not to talk about it especially when we all know who the victims would be...I agree with you that language is a very good indicator of the level of sophistication of a people. My native language isn't, and I guess it isn't much different from other neighbouring tribes...not sure if we even developed a written form of communication.
There's been a lot of research about intellectual disparities according to races but it's just not popular. For instance, it has been found that genes of Neanderthals - whom had the large brains - are present in Asians, caucasians .. but absent in the African negro, giving more plausibility to the interbreeding theory for their extinction.
I hope easy access to information on the internet would lead to our own renaissance and emancipation as a people. I hope although sometimes I wish I could just look away and not care at all like the politicians and religious leaders. I mean, it's sickening to hear young black africans desiring colonisation by the whites over again, because honestly it cannot be this bad. At least there would be decent healthcare.

I was having a talk along these lines with my cousin who is pro-black, black-power, the-white-man-is-the-devil, Elijah Mohammed etc type person and he argued that our persistent underdevelopment is as a result of 300+ years of trans-atlantic slavery but it is just one of our favourite excuses. A look at other formerly colonised nations like India - who got their independence about a decade before Nigeria - that recently sent over 100 mini-satellites to space on a single space vessel, at first attempt, beating the previous record of over 30 by Russia shows a country that is serious. Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia etc are light years ahead of us.

Israel is not to be messed with on any level of science and technology. They export advanced military technology to the US and have the most tech companies on the Fortune 100, for such a small country that almost had all its people wiped out the surface of the earth. The country with the most Nobel Laureates in the Sciences and man do they mean their "Never again" slogan. Never again will a deranged despot in power rise again to annihilate them. Never! but ironically the religious ones think it's the christian god that is responsible and not possession of Nuclear weapons and highly sophisticated weapons of warfare

Currently, the black man is at the bottom of the food chain. Look at us, a country that has still not yet seen the need for education, we cannot even create a functioning society. We have crude oil but it's too much trouble, or rather too tech advanced for us to refine. So we sell and import refined crude products Now we take our health problems to India. The other day GEJ blamed Obama and the west for his monumental failure and defeat...tells a lot about him as a person and us in general. His wife brazenly goes to the bank to withdraw 'her' multi-million dollar monetary gift. I am from the south-south and it's just a mad house, these people are from villages that don't even have good drinking water and they still shit in rivers...Look at Deizani, Chevening scholar, University of Cambridge, you would think such would know better and behave differently she is still alive today because of a functioning healthcare system and competent doctors otherwise, absolutely no chance if it were in Nigeria. To think that these people would steal so much and take it back to the land of their colonisers only supports the narrative. So, it surely has to be genetic. The counter evidence only has to prove otherwise because going by observation the negro race is by far the least intelligent and organised. Look elsewhere at the other leaders and countries of black Africa, similar sordid tales of oppression, poverty and superstition are highly prevalent.

Some people might ask "Yes, we know but what are you doing about all these?" I have come to the point now where I laugh and respond with "What has Nigeria done for me?...The people it fed, educated and housed like GEJ etc what did they do for Nigeria or its future? The worst part of the current situation is that there is a growing multitude of uneducated young people and potential barbarians up north that might as well end up in the civil service or religious fundamentalism, yet their people don't see Almajiri or Islamic indoctrination as a problem, why should I? It's hard enough trying to provide even the most basic amenities for my family. When it's time for a referendum, wake me up because that's the only thing that would take my butt off this couch..na siddon look I dey"

OP 'The Bell Curve' was very controversial, it should have data that shows some of these things you talk about.

Interesting gist.

Excerpt From: Richard Dawkins. “The God delusion.”

“Thomas Henry Huxley, by the standards of his times, was an enlightened and liberal progressive. But his times were not ours, and in 1871 he wrote the following:
No rational man, cognizant of the facts, believes that the average negro is the equal, still less the superior, of the white man. And if this be true, it is simply incredible that, when all his disabilities are removed, and our prognathous relative has a fair field and no favor, as well as no oppressor, he will be able to compete successfully with his bigger-brained and smaller-jawed rival, in a contest which is to “be carried on by thoughts and not by bites. The highest places in the hierarchy of civilisation will assuredly not be within the reach of our dusky cousins”

Maybe this should have been taken as a challenge

Thanks for taking time to write this. Everything you've said helps to substantiate the point I have been trying make.

Acknowledging a problem is the first step at solving that problem. I am not advocating any Nazi propaganda, neither am I a racist or the lapdog of white supremacists. I am a black Nigerian who is concerned about the state and future of his country and his people. I want to be part of something that I and my posterity would be proud of. The current picture of Nigeria and sub-saharan Africa is nothing to be proud of. And all I am doing with this thread is highlighting a crucial underlying cause of this shameful image that is being portrayed by my people.

We should empower our smartest people, who sadly, are a minority. We should give them a voice and a sustainable platform to excogitate valuable ideas, to create, to build and to develop. We should stop giving platforms to people who don't possess the kind of intelligence that actually helps a country grow. Social and artistic intelligence although useful, isn't really what Nigeria needs today, but sadly, this is the kind that Nigerian brands and business moguls prefer to give platforms and waste money on. We need an intellectual revolution in this country, and this isn't going to start if we lie to ourselves.

To illustrate how precarious the state of sub-saharan Africa is, just imagine if a 21st century Hitler arises from any of the world powers, maybe China or Russia or a coalition of both, and decides to take over the world and destroy anyone who isn't part of their nation or race, with nuclear and sophisticated weaponry. What is sub-saharan Africa going to do if such happens? What do we have to protect ourselves? Are we going to ask the allied countries to protect us when they are busy using their resources to protect their own people? Are we going to call our talented actors and musicians to sing and dance for the opposition so they'd pity us? Are our politicians and wealthy business men going to offer all their wealth in exchange for our lives to be spared? What's going to be our fate if this happens? I'll tell you. We would be destroyed and wiped out in hours.

Trudax:


I am not being selective. As you can read from my very first post, I made it clear that I was referring to sub-saharan Africa. The part of Africa that comprise of mainly black people. The Nubian civilization and the Ethiopian Kush civilizations aren't your typical sub-saharan civilization. These civilizations spanned lots of north African regions, Axum even spread into the middle east, and received influences from these regions, both cultural and genetic. There is a huge difference between Ethiopia as it is today, and its empire. It's like saying the Roman empire was present day Italy.

No one invented writing. Different civilizations had their own forms of writing. Europe didn't invent paper, China did, but Europe invented the printing press.

Wrong. Places like Mali were basically colonized by the Arabs. If you doubt me, google the leaders of the Malian empire. They had Arabic names. This infiltration of Arabs into Mali was during the period of massive Islamic success and expansion. They expanded into the Iberian Peninsula and Northern Africa. They didn't spread further down south, but they reached the areas that were part of the Malian empire. So most of what you are attributing to the Malian empire is essentially a product of the Islamic golden era that began in the middle east. The libraries you are referring to were Islamic libraries. The books there were in Arabic.

Yes, Axumities and Abyssinians weren't the same as others Africans, but that doesn't mean they weren't Africans. Axumities were Agaw/Semite/Beja/Afar and few others and the same to Axumitie descendants Abyssinians(Amhara and Tigray). There ancestors with the exception of their Yemenite were Cushitic. Cushitic had inhabited Horn of Africa for many thousands of years, so they are one of the original Africa civilizations.
I'm Ethiopian.

Does anyone see a correlation here?

Cc Dalaman Plaetton Hahn Kingebukasblog

Trudax:
Does anyone see a correlation here?

Cc Dalaman Plaetton Hahn Kingebukasblog

The poverty rate and adversities being faced in Atheist countries who are intolerant of religion are out of this world E.g North Korea and Cuba .

But I hope you aware that being religious isn't quite the same as believing in the existence of God ?

https://www.nairaland.com/3500235/must-read-god-without-religion

Deicide:
Catholic church brought modern science to the world...................WHAT!!!! this guy hasn't changed at all even has the audacity to be lying with confidence, What kind of fuckery is that?

Medieval Catholic mathematicians and philosophers such as John Buridan, Nicole Oresme and Roger Bacon were founders of modern science . I've said these things before and I'll say them again

https://www.nairaland.com/3283286/communist-leaders-atheists-there-difference/6#48644248

KingEbukasBlog:



Medieval Catholic mathematicians and philosophers such as John Buridan, Nicole Oresme and Roger Bacon were founders of modern science . I've said these things before and I'll say them again

https://www.nairaland.com/3283286/communist-leaders-atheists-there-difference/6#48644248

'

By now us should know the ignorance, that guy exudes
The funny thing is he will even turn it around and accuse others of the ignorance.

When u expose him, he will tell you he is joking

felixomor:
'

By now us should know the ignorance, that guy exudes
The funny thing is he will even turn it around and accuse others of the ignorance.

When u expose him, he will tell you he is joking

And I clearly said "The Catholics" not the "Catholic Church" . Two different things . But the atheist in his usual small-mindedness cannot seem to tell the difference .

Trudax:
Does anyone see a correlation here?

Cc Dalaman Plaetton Hahn Kingebukasblog

What we need is open mindedness, total disregard for superstition that is deeply embedded in our culture and has become a sacred part of our lives. We need to embrace naturalism and try to understand that all our problems have natural solutions else we will keep wallowing in the cesspool we have created for ouselves.

We are overly religious and that has been a bane, but that doesn't mean that atheism will cure Africa's problem. Atheism might be a very big problem of its own if we all embrace it. Africans just need to be less religious and do away with the superstitious part of their religions the way others have done. That can only be done through the provision of good and quality education.

Others are religious and spiritual but they have been able to grow because they have dropped most of the superstitious aspect of their religion and embraced the natural part. In Europe today most christians do not accept creationism but evolution. Majority of them do not believe in faith healing, only the fringe believe in faith healing. They do not belive in prayers as a solution to anything. They just believe prayers as silent wish not a solution to anything, as such you can not see them praying away their problems like we do always. They have embraced naturalism and they truly believe that all of man's problems must be solved through natural means. No political leader in Europe or America will tell you that diseases are a product punishment of sin and expect to retain his seat. He/she will be forced to resign immediatelybecause such kind of thought and reasoning doesn't agree with the type of people and society they have created.

As black people we simply do NOT understand how the world works. I have European educated friends to PhD level that still reason the same way a stark illetrate will reason when it comes to matters superstition, religion and spirituality. Despite all the knowledge and education, many still believe that some imaginary spiritual forces are against them when misfortune comes their way, many still believe in ritual money, juju and the likes. Things that have stagnated our growth as a people for centuries. Until we change our beliefs and embrace naturalism the way others have by believing that our problems can only be sloved naturally we will continue to remain the way we are.

omohayek:

All you're doing here is revealing your rank ignorance, along with your pretentious usage of terms and places you have no more than a superficial acquaintance with. What do you really know of the Greeks who were responsible for giving birth to philosophy or mathematics? Can you tell me who the first of the Greek philosophers were, where in Greece they came from, and what they believed? What was the chain of succession in their thought, and how did each one modify the ideas of his predecessor?

As for your reference to China, again, I dare you to demonstrate that you know anything whatsoever about Chinese thought and history beyond the most superficial things you can dig up in a quick Google search. This is an area to which I've been particularly devoted over the years, so I'll enjoy getting into the details of it all and revealing your ignorance for the world to see. Why don't we start with a few easy questions: do you know what "legalism" is, how it arose, and what role it came to play in the Chinese philosophy of governance? What was the context in which Confucius put together his teachings, and how were they spread after his death? How exactly has Confucianism been synthesized with legalism and Daoism in Chinese thought? Please, go ahead and give us your take on these questions, I'll be waiting ...

You might be able to fool a few ignorant Nigerians on here with your pseudo-intellectual ramblings, but on this occasion you've run into someone who knows far more about the topics you're trying to cloak your nonsense with than you can ever hope to learn.

Holy Sheet!!!! see finishing

dalaman:


In Europe today most christians do not accept creationism but evolution. Majority of them do not believe in faith healing, only the fringe believe in faith healing. They do not belive in prayers as a solution to anything. They just believe prayers as silent wish not a solution to anything, as such you can not see them praying away their problems like we do always. They have embraced naturalism and they truly believe that all of man's problems must be solved through natural means

1. Most Christians accept evolution and reject creationism ? Any evidence for this claim ?

Should we pretend like atheists don't reject evolution and accept intelligent design (Raelism ) . There are theistic beliefs that include both creationism and evolution (special creationism )

2. Can you provide evidence for the claim : Christians in Europe believe prayers are silent wishes not a solution to anything ?

America though not part of Europe just had their National Prayer Day last week . Some countries in Europe like Denmark have a prayer day

dalaman:


What we need is open mindedness, total disregard for superstition that is deeply embedded in our culture and has become a sacred part of our lives. We need to embrace naturalism and try to understand that all our problems have natural solutions else we will keep wallowing in the cesspool we have created for ouselves.

We are overly religious and that has been a bane, but that doesn't mean that atheism will cure Africa's problem. Atheism might be a very big problem of its own if we all embrace it. Africans just need to be less religious and do away with the superstitious part of their religions the way others have done. That can only be done through the provision of good and quality education.

Others are religious and spiritual but they have been able to grow because they have dropped most of the superstitious aspect of their religion and embraced the natural part. In Europe today most christians do not accept creationism but evolution. Majority of them do not believe in faith healing, only the fringe believe in faith healing. They do not belive in prayers as a solution to anything. They just believe prayers as silent wish not a solution to anything, as such you can not see them praying away their problems like we do always. They have embraced naturalism and they truly believe that all of man's problems must be solved through natural means. No political leader in Europe or America will tell you that diseases are a product punishment of sin and expect to retain his seat. He/she will be forced to resign immediatelybecause such kind of thought and reasoning doesn't agree with the type of people and society they have created.

As black people we simply do NOT understand how the world works. I have European educated friends to PhD level that still reason the same way a stark illetrate will reason when it comes to matters superstition, religion and spirituality. Despite all the knowledge and education, many still believe that some imaginary spiritual forces are against them when misfortune comes their way, many still believe in ritual money, juju and the likes. Things that have stagnated our growth as a people for centuries. Until we change our beliefs and embrace naturalism the way others have by believing that our problems can only be sloved naturally we will continue to remain the way we are.

I totally agree with the emboldened

Nigerians are really not ready to face reality

KingEbukasBlog:


1. Most Christians accept evolution and reject creationism ? Any evidence for this claim ?

Should we pretend like atheists don't reject evolution and accept intelligent design (Raelism ) . There are theistic beliefs that include both creationism and evolution (special creationism )

Yes. Most christians in the West accept evolution over creationism. Only in the US did more christians accept creationism but that was in the past, even in the US more people are accepting evolution over creationism especially among the youth population.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2015/11/polls_americans_believe_in_evolution_less_in_creationism.html

Were is your study that shoWS that majority of atheist believe in intelligent design? Where is it?

2. Can you provide evidence for the claim : Christians in Europe believe prayers are silent wishes not a solution to anything ?

America though not part of Europe just had their National Prayer Day last week . Some countries in Europe like Denmark have a prayer day

They do not take prayers seriously as they do not attach any importance to it. Prayers has never solved any of their problems as such they do not attach any special importance to it. In fat in Europe most people do not even attend religious gatherings or activities. Church attendance has dropped by over 60% on average.The only people that attend church regularly are Nigerians and other African migrants. Europes ms don't attend church bease they don't attach any importance it.
Having a national day of prayer is nothing but a symbolic gesture jut like the Ramadan day dinner in the white house. When they have problems as a nation they do not go about praying, they vigorously look so solutions amongst themselves through natural means. Tell me one problems that any nation was confronted with that prayers was used to solve. Just name one.