a lot of churches and pastors believe this should be the norm - pray, then speak to d pastor and pastor speaks to lady on ur behalf - what do you think?

You should inform the pastor definitely.
Also inform the detectives at the local police department, the district attorney at the court house, the butcher at the local grocery store and if you have time the mechanic that regularly services your car.

---

The complimentary role that pastors are supposed to play in our lives has been so assaulted, bastardized, modified, re-packaged and then elevated and placed on an untouchable pedestal that is a few rungs higher up the ladder than even God himself. And where's the Holyspirit in all this? relegated to a pastime role if any at all. I am fearful for naija "churches" and "christians".

of course you should inform the pastor,remember the pastor is the spiritual father and he/she will be in the best position to seek the face of GOD concerning the relationship.
will you marry a girl without informing her earthly father or acknowledging him?

GODSON2009:

of course you should inform the pastor,remember the pastor is the spiritual father and he/she will be in the best position to seek the face of GOD concerning the relationship.
will you marry a girl without informing her earthly father or acknowledging him?

Please supply the appropriate scriptures to back up this claim or retract it.

1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

hmm . . . no mention of pastor in-between God-Jesus-man . . . perhaps Paul made some mistake here?

im at work,but i promise to post a bible verse re iterating the importance of the head of the church,

ill pose a question back at you,when you need someone to pray for you,do you wait for jesus christ to come down from heaven

in concvlusion of my very short preamble,have you come across the verse in acts of the apostle where apostle paul highlighted the importance of the five fold ministry?pls go and read this

GODSON2009:

im at work,but i promise to post a bible verse re iterating the importance of the head of the church,

  Christ is the head of the church NOT the pastor.
Ephesians 5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife even as[b] Christ is the head of the church[/b], his body, and is himself its Savior.

Col 1:18
And he (Christ) is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.

ill pose a question back at you,when you need someone to pray for you,do you wait for jesus christ to come down from heaven

Nope. I pray myself, or ask any of my christian friends or family to pray along with me. Since afterall, no one person pastor or not has more access to God than another.

in concvlusion of my very short preamble,have you come across the verse in acts of the apostle where apostle paul highlighted the importance of the five fold ministry?pls go and read this

I'll wait for you to post your relevant scriptures showing how and when Christ was demoted and the pastor became the head of the church. Cheers.

YES OH! you must inform your pastor who make sure that your 10% tax tithes first fruit etc is all up to date and the babes too before they can even consider talking to the babe on your behalf.

woye77:

a lot of churches and pastors believe this should be the norm - pray, then speak to d pastor and pastor speaks to lady on your behalf - what do you think?

The prayer part i agree with. But why should the pastor speak on your behalf when he is not a P.I.M.P

Arté:


Christ is the head of the church NOT the pastor.
Ephesians 5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife even as[b] Christ is the head of the church[/b], his body, and is himself its Savior.

Col 1:18
And he (Christ) is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.

no one including the poster has argued with you that christ is not the head of the church,however that does not dismiss the fact that the pastor has a role to play in the ministry of christ which is running the church/body of believers on behalf of the supreme head which is christ yes or no?
if you have answered no then i will be interested in knowing what order of haierachy you are following concerning jesus christ and the five fold ministry e.t.c

Arté:


Nope. I pray myself, or ask any of my christian friends or family to pray along with me. Since after, no one person pastor or not has more access to God than another.
I'll wait for you to post your relevant scriptures showing how and when Christ was demoted and the pastor became the head of the church. Cheers.

does the fact that you pray yourself,now nullify the job of a pastor in the church??


are all christians all exercising the same level of faith?

or maybe you are now telling us that every christian must have their own personal churches individually seeing as pastor are not important and dont play any role.

i asked you earlier on if you have come across the five fold ministry but you didnt reply, that in itself shows you that there are relevant religious leaders after christ who the lord has sent to minister and take care of his people.

go and read acts of the apostles and the letters of apostle paul including the functions of the disciples after jesus left, in genesis who did abraham .
in conclusion again go and read genesis 24,
why didnt abraham send his son isaac to go off and look for a wife amongst his people after his death??
after all according to your own reasoning,he was an adult and didnt need the guidance of anyone least of all a pastor,
we have been told that isaac prior to that time was a compliant and gentle child who obeyed his father when he wanted to sacrifice him,so he must have been a model child yet his father sought the guidance of a knowledgeable and matured servant to lead him to the right wife.

@arte
please read through this and explain what it means to me since you r soo knowleadgeable lol

11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

(ephesians chapter 4)

GODSON2009:

no one including the poster has argued with you that christ is not the head of the church,however that does not dismiss the fact that the pastor has a role to play in the ministry of christ which is running the church/body of believers on behalf of the supreme head which is christ yes or no?

1. Since you like recommending me to go read, perhaps you should re-read my first post. I never said the pastor has no role, I said his role has been distorted.

Arté:

The complimentary role that pastors are supposed to play in our lives has been so assaulted, bastardized, modified, re-packaged and then elevated and placed on an untouchable pedestal that is a few rungs higher up the ladder than even God himself.

2. Now you've changed your story. You first said the pastor was the head of the church, now you say he has a "role" - which was what I first said all along.

GODSON2009:

of course you should inform the pastor, remember the pastor is the spiritual father and he/she will be in the best position to seek the face of GOD concerning the relationship.

GODSON2009:

im at work, but i promise to post a bible verse re iterating the importance of the head of the church,

Now please supply the relevant scriptures that say the "pastor is the head of the church". Gracias.

---

if you have answered no then i will be interested in knowing what order of haierachy you are following concerning jesus christ and the five fold ministry e.t.c does the fact that you pray yourself,now nullify the job of a pastor in the church??

Don't run in circles. I have not insinuated anywhere the pastor doesn't have a role.

are all christians all exercising the same level of faith?

Nope. But they certainly DO NOT need a pastor to pray for them. The bible is very clear Jesus Christ only is the mediator between man and God - not the pastor.

or maybe you are now telling us that every christian must have their own personal churches individually seeing as pastor are not important and dont play any role.

Nope again. I have consistently maintained the role of the pastor has been abused and elevated to a status the bible doesn't give it. Stop picking bones of contention where I have raised none .

i asked you earlier on if you have come across the five fold ministry but you didnt reply, that in itself shows you that there are relevant religious leaders after christ who the lord has sent to minister and take care of his people.

go and read acts of the apostles and the letters of apostle paul including the functions of the disciples after jesus left, in genesis who did abraham .
in conclusion again go and read genesis 24,

  You're not saying much. Pastors, apostles, deacons etc all have their roles, nobody is contesting that here - please just show me the scripture of the pastor's headship, shikena.

why didnt abraham send his son isaac to go off and look for a wife amongst his people after his death??
after all according to your own reasoning,he was an adult and didnt need the guidance of anyone least of all a pastor,
we have been told that isaac prior to that time was a compliant and gentle child who obeyed his father when he wanted to sacrifice him,so he must have been a model child yet his father sought the guidance of a knowledgeable and matured servant to lead him to the right wife.

Unecessary digressions. Did Abraham consult his local pastor first? are we now living and doing things according to how the ancients did it? Anyways this is offtopic and I won't address it should you refer to it again.

---

Please just show me the scripture where the "pastor is the head of the church" - that is the significant issue I picked with your post - I'm unwilling to go down these diversionary roads that deflect from the issue. Just show us the scripture. Thanks.

And I'm willing to bet $1000 bucks and my ride, that you didn't know the word "pastor" appears only once in the entire New Testament. Once. and only a few times in the OT.

My pal woye77, thanks for the invitation. The topic is timely, especially because of the things I see among some (please note: 'some') Nigerian Christians whenever I visit London. I can't say much at this time, but suffice that believers (men) should be able to seek their own women as a matter of their own choice, rather than something like an 'application' at the gate of some company. I hope no one would be put off by my remarks, as that was not meant to be cynical - but men who are 'men' should be 'men' where it matters.

Proverbs 18:22 - 'Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD'. To 'find', the 'seeking' must take place as a matter of personal responsibility. It does not say that the favour was to be bestowed on the person seeking a wife on behalf of someone else.

(Just an asides, though. . . I know of some pastors/ leaders of churches who met their partners through the 'ministry' of a 'go-between' - you know, the type where someone says: 'please put in a good word for me. . toast her over to my coast'. I'm not making fun of such men, but they should not make things turn out like a circus for people under their leadership).

@Arté, I enjoy some of your posts, but I'd like to help make sense of this part of yours:

Arté:

And I'm willing to bet $1000 bucks and my ride, that you didn't know the word "pastor" appears only once in the entire New Testament. Once. and only a few times in the OT.

That's not true. What about versions and translations which do not use the word 'pastors' a single time in their entire New Testaments - could we then use such translations and versions to argue that 'the word "pastor" DOES NOT appear even once in the entire New Testament' - not even 'ONCE'?

Since you're limiting your statement to any number of particular English version(s) of the Bible,  the better thing to say is that the word 'pastors' (plural) appears only once in the NT of the King James Version, KJV and some other akin versions, (Ephesians 4:11). However, the original word from which it was translated appears several times in the NT Greek manuscripts of our Bible. I'll just copy from my notes to sort this out.

---

(1)   The word 'pastors' in Eph. 4:11 is ποιμήν (poimēn), appearing no less than 18 times in the NT where it is variously translated as 'shepherd' or 'shepherds'  ~

* (shepherd) ~
Matt. 9:36
Matt. 25:32
Matt. 26:31
Mark 6:34
Mark 14:27
John 10:2
John 10:11-12
John 10:14
John 10:16
Hebrews 13:20
1 Peter 2:25

* (shepherds) ~
Luke 2:8
Luke 2:15
Luke 2:18
Luke 2:20

* (pastors) ~
Ephesians 4:11


(2)   Apart from the KJV, there are other versions and translations which translate ποιμήν (poimēn) in Eph. 4:11 as 'pastors', such as the ASV, NIV, NASB, NLT, NKJV, CEV, HCSB, and several more.

(3)   The Amplified uses both English words 'pastors' and 'shepherds' - "some pastors (shepherds of His flock)"

(4)   Some other modern translations like the ESV (English Standard Version), the YLT (Young's Literal Translation), and  Darby (1889 tr.) do not use the word 'pastors' even once in their New Testaments - NOT EVEN ONCE. They rather use the word 'shepherds' in Ephesians 4:11.

(5)   This same Greek word ποιμήν (poimēn) is used in reference to our Lord Jesus Christ as well, Who is thus addressed in the following manner ~

* 'the Shepherd (ποιμήν) and Bishop of your souls' ~ 1 Peter 2:25
* 'that great Shepherd (ποιμήν) of the sheep' ~ Heb. 13:20
* 'I am the good Shepherd (ποιμήν)' ~ John 10:11

(6)   There should be no quarrel or confusion between the English equivalents of 'pastors' or 'shepherds' for the Greek (ποιμήν) - so, whether someone wants to use either words in Ephesians 4:11 (as does the Amplified), the essential message should not be lost on us. The point is that it is not true to state that the word "pastor" appears only once in the entire New Testament: as we have seen, such an argument is unnecessary and immature.

(7)   Although the word 'pastors' conjures some ill feelings in the minds of many Christians today, that should not make us lose sight of the fact that 'Pastors' are part of Christ's gifts to His Church (Ephesians 4:11). A healthy fellowship is one where local pastors are loved, respected and supported in the very important work which they do - Hebrews 13:7.

I am so sick and tired of all these Pastor talks, Pastor is Daddy, Mommy, Counselor, Boss, Teacher blah blah blah , Pastor is everything! Pastor Pls can i go to the restroom?

Poster. . .

Does the pastor inform me before he empties the offering boxes into his pockets?

Does the pastor inform me before he steals the tithes and banks it in his name?

The pastor can piss off. . . If i see a yummy lady i like, i bypass the pastor and go for it. .

If the pastor stands in my way, i will beat him down violently!!!

If your pastor knows God's opinion, I mean, if your pastor can be your communicator with God, yes! But the problem is, many are just pastors by profession, but not such in heart - that is why what they say is not what God says and no confirmation. One day I watch on TV, Emmanuel Tv, the pastor said to one couple that they are not meant to be husband and wife and the mother of that man cried because, she doesn't agree with his son's choice - that the son wanted to marry the girl. And, another time, the pastor said to a man to forgive and forget, saying that his wife is really his divine wife. It is good if you can see pastor who knows God's opinion about your situation.

w_agbaje:

If your pastor knows God's opinion, I mean, if your pastor can be your communicator with God, yes! But the problem is, many are just pastors by profession, but not such in heart - that is why what they say is not what God says and no confirmation. One day I watch on TV, Emmanuel Tv, the pastor said to one couple that they are not meant to be husband and wife and the mother of that man cried because, she doesn't agree with his son's choice - that the son wanted to marry the girl. And, another time, the pastor said to a man to forgive and forget, saying that his wife is really his divine wife. It is good if you can see pastor who knows God's opinion about your situation.

Are you insane?
What are you talking about

MrCrackles:

Poster. . .

Does the pastor inform me before he empties the offering boxes into his pockets?

Does the pastor inform me before he steals the tithes and banks it in his name?

The pastor can piss off. . . If i see a yummy lady i like, i bypass the pastor and go for it. .

If the pastor stands in my way, i will beat him down violently!!!

hahahha, you are talking like a mad man. You don't know who you are fighting. If that pastor is a real man of God, you are fighting God and pele, you cannot stand against God, jare! Every knee shall bow down before God!  

MrCrackles:

Are you insane?
What are you talking about

You and me, we don't understand. That is why we need a man of God. "Surely the Sovereign LORD does nothing without revealing his plan to his servants the prophets" - Amos 3:7
But the fact is, not every man who claims himself as a prophet receives revelation. Those who are called to be prophets must be able to know God's opinion.

@woye77: Thanks for inviting me here

If U Fancied A Lady In your Church, Must U Inform D Pastor Before Approaching Her?

The summary of my opinion on this matter is:

The only reason you should inform the pastor is if the pastor is the lady herself

Special case I: if he is the lady's father, tell him BUT only after telling the lady herself

Special case II: in case the pastor is also a suitor to the lady, DON'T tell him under any circumstances or else you will be shocked how things will turn out

But really, jokes apart, it is not the pastor's business until you have spoken to the woman first of all. After speaking to the woman and hearing her out, it is also wrong to allow the pastor to mount pressure on the woman. He won't be with you in the house when you finally settle down.

Arté:

1. Since you like recommending me to go read, perhaps you should re-read my first post. I never said the pastor has no role, I said his role has been distorted.

well the point of the thread itself is if the pastor is competent in a supervisory role when it concerns relationship between two of his flocks,so its either u disagree with the assertion or agree finish enough of all this rigmarole pls

Arté:

2. Now you've changed your story. You first said the pastor was the head of the church, now you say he has a "role" - which was what I first said all along. Now please supply the relevant scriptures that say the "pastor is the head of the church". Gracias.

where exactly did i change my story ??i said and have consistently maintained that the pastor of a given church is the head of that church or the sheperd leading that church he can also be likened to the spiritual father of that church apostle paul called timothy his spiritual son in colossians, which brings back my point will you now get married without consulting the father of your bride
i ll show you the relevant scriptures as soon as you simply answer if the pastor is the sheperd/spiritual father of his own church or parish or not with the reasons why thanking you in advance

Arté:

---

Don't run in circles. I have not insinuated anywhere the pastor doesn't have a role.

run in circles? i have maintained the same point which is evident all through my postings,so why dont u espouse the role of the pastor in a church he is supposed to be sheperding then seeing as he is not heading that particular church?

Arté:

Nope. But they certainly DO NOT need a pastor to pray for them. The bible is very clear Jesus Christ only is the mediator between man and God - not the pastor.

your answer, who are the elders of the church the five fold ministry
14Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven.(james 5;14 niv version of the bible)

Arté:

Nope again. I have consistently maintained the role of the pastor has been abused and elevated to a status the bible doesn't give it. Stop picking bones of contention where I have raised none .

in order to get some clarity cause your points are starting to befuddle me,what in your own opinion are the roles of the pastor?

Arté:

You're not saying much. Pastors, apostles, deacons etc all have their roles, nobody is contesting that here - please just show me the scripture of the pastor's headship, shikena.

i have addressed this particular question earlier,once you answer the questions i posed i will avail you of the relevant passages, however the bible passages of the five fold ministry which i posted should have enlightened you on the role they are supposed to play,including a specific mention of the pastor unless you are now saying the evangelist or the deacon will be heading the church while the pastor will be an usher,then i will start to understand your own brand of christianity,which is why i have consistently asked you to catalogue the role of a pastor

Arté:

Unecessary digressions. Did Abraham consult his local pastor first? are we now living and doing things according to how the ancients did it? Anyways this is offtopic and I won't address it should you refer to it again.

no he didnt but he delegated a trusted servant,who acted as a defacto elder to seek out a GODLY wife for his son what role was the trusted servant playing at that point in time

---

Please just show me the scripture where the "pastor is the head of the church" - that is the significant issue I picked with your post - I'm unwilling to go down these diversionary roads that deflect from the issue. Just show us the scripture. Thanks.

And I'm willing to bet $1000 bucks and my ride, that you didn't know the word "pastor" appears only once in the entire New Testament. Once. and only a few times in the OT.
[quote][/quote]
well im sorry if im not ready to play hoots with you,why dont you come back to base by simply telling me or cataloging the role of a pastor in your opinion,then we will start from there.
second what order of heirachy will you arrange the five fold ministry after you have done this then i will be obliged to address your question because it seems to me that you just come up with a random question and expect me to go running and giving you passages of the bible while you r relaxing n waiting for your secretary to come back.
im waiting for your explanation so that you can fully commit yourself to a stance,like i have done then i will adress your questions

Traugott:

@woye77: Thanks for inviting me here

If U Fancied A Lady In your Church, Must U Inform D Pastor Before Approaching Her?

The summary of my opinion on this matter is:

The only reason you should inform the pastor is if the pastor is the lady herself

Special case I: if he is the lady's father, tell him BUT only after telling the lady herself

Special case II: in case the pastor is also a suitor to the lady, DON'T tell him under any circumstances or else you will be shocked how things will turn out

But really, jokes apart, it is not the pastor's business until you have spoken to the woman first of all. After speaking to the woman and hearing her out, it is also wrong to allow the pastor to mount pressure on the woman. He won't be with you in the house when you finally settle down.

the reason why it is expedient upon us to inform the pastor has both spiritual and physical reasons first of all the pastor and his wife are in the best position to know their flock,they know who is pretending who is hardworking,who is born again trully and who is pretending e.t.c
on the flip side some men go round lieing to the ladies in the church and then running off an example that happened in my church here in the uk a supposed born again christian lied to a woman that he ll marry her,she didnt inform the pastor and the guy had sex with her,she aborted for him and even borrowed 2000 pounds from her and ran off.
even though the woman was not a member of the parish,and the man had lied that he was a member of our church it was our pastor that finally found the guy in another parish and settled the whole thing.

on the spiritual side a pastor will go to GOD in prayers concerning the union in conjuction with his wife and the other supporters of the five fold ministry deacon,evangelist,apostle and prophet to pray for that union and seek the counsel oF GOD

Viaro,
    thank you much. I made that statement about the word "pastor" specifically to chide godson, I do understand there are translation issues that would render my generalization inaccurate, and I wasn't concerned with that given my discussion so far with godson. Thanks though

GODSON2009:

well the point of the thread itself is if the pastor is competent in a supervisory role when it concerns relationship between two of his flocks,so its either u disagree with the assertion or agree finish enough of all this rigmarole pls
where exactly did i change my story ??i said and have consistently maintained that the pastor of a given church is the head of that church or the sheperd leading that church he can also be likened to the spiritual father of that church apostle paul called timothy his spiritual son in colossians, which brings back my point will you now get married without consulting the father of your bride
i ll show you the relevant scriptures as soon as you simply answer if the pastor is the sheperd/spiritual father of his own church or parish or not with the reasons why thanking you in advancerun in circles? i have maintained the same point which is evident all through my postings,so why dont u espouse the role of the pastor in a church he is supposed to be sheperding then seeing as he is not heading that particular church?your answer, who are the elders of the church the five fold ministry
14Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven.(james 5;14 niv version of the bible)in order to get some clarity cause your points are starting to befuddle me,what in your own opinion are the roles of the pastor?i have addressed this particular question earlier,once you answer the questions i posed i will avail you of the relevant passages, however the bible passages of the five fold ministry which i posted should have enlightened you on the role they are supposed to play,including a specific mention of the pastor unless you are now saying the evangelist or the deacon will be heading the church while the pastor will be an usher,then i will start to understand your own brand of christianity,which is why i have consistently asked you to catalogue the role of a pastorno he didnt but he delegated a trusted servant,who acted as a defacto elder to seek out a GODLY wife for his son what role was the trusted servant playing at that point in time

---

Please just show me the scripture where the "pastor is the head of the church" - that is the significant issue I picked with your post - I'm unwilling to go down these diversionary roads that deflect from the issue. Just show us the scripture. Thanks.

And I'm willing to bet $1000 bucks and my ride, that you didn't know the word "pastor" appears only once in the entire New Testament. Once. and only a few times in the OT.
[
well im sorry if im not ready to play hoots with you,why dont you come back to base by simply telling me or cataloging the role of a pastor in your opinion,then we will start from there.
second what order of heirachy will you arrange the five fold ministry after you have done this then i will be obliged to address your question because it seems to me that you just come up with a random question and expect me to go running and giving you passages of the bible while you r relaxing n waiting for your secretary to come back.
im waiting for your explanation so that you can fully commit yourself to a stance,like i have done then i will adress your questions

More words but no substance.

I have asked only one simple question since the begining of the thread and you have consistently done the electric slide around it, show us the[u] scripture where the pastor is the head of the church [/u] as you claimed. Simple. Thank you.

Traugott:


Special case II: in case the pastor is also a suitor to the lady, DON'T tell him under any circumstances or else you will be shocked how things will turn out

ROFLMAO   I actually know someone this happened to the pastor kept encouraging the mugun to fast and pray before approaching the girl meanwhile the pastor was busy toasting her by the time my guy knew what was happening the pastor had announced his proposed marriage to the same gir in church  

viaro:

My pal woye77, thanks for the invitation. The topic is timely, especially because of the things I see among some (please note: 'some') Nigerian Christians whenever I visit London. I can't say much at this time, but suffice that believers (men) should be able to seek their own women as a matter of their own choice, rather than something like an 'application' at the gate of some company. I hope no one would be put off by my remarks, as that was not meant to be cynical - but men who are 'men' should be 'men' where it matters.

Proverbs 18:22 - 'Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD'. To 'find', the 'seeking' must take place as a matter of personal responsibility. It does not say that the favour was to be bestowed on the person seeking a wife on behalf of someone else.

(Just an asides, though. . . I know of some pastors/ leaders of churches who met their partners through the 'ministry' of a 'go-between' - you know, the type where someone says: 'please put in a good word for me. . toast her over to my coast'. I'm not making fun of such men, but they should not make things turn out like a circus for people under their leadership).

Simple! I am scared at the exalted positions that are conferred upon pastors these days. It really is disturbing. Perhaps you can help godson show us where the scripture is that says "The pastor is the HEAD of the church"  

Arté:

Viaro,
thank you much. I made that statement about the word "pastor" specifically to chide godson, I do understand there are translation issues that would render my generalization inaccurate, and I wasn't concerned with that given my discussion so far with godson. Thanks though

More words but no substance.

I have asked only one simple question since the begining of the thread and you have consistently done the electric slide around it, show us the[u] scripture where the pastor is the head of the church [/u] as you claimed. Simple. Thank you.

in other words,the summary of your short and long version of the preamble is that you are not willing to state the functions of a pastor so wats the point of your whole argument againlmao

_{Warning - I couldn't procure a Valentine' date for love or money, so I'm taking my ire out on religionists, monetizers, haemaphrodites or any other purveyor of nonsense  that strays into my path!}

@ OP a few points

1. There is no such thing as "The Pastor". Suggesting that one man - shepherding is not open to females - runs/heads/leads a congregation.
2. Congregations are shepherded by a "plurality" of suitably qualified elders - I'm referring to the norm here, not exceptional circumstances.
3. Marriage is between families, as the bible makes clear. Church involvement is not essential, although permitted and possibly useful.
4. There is only one Head of the Church - the body- The Lord Jesus Christ blasphemers please take note.
5. Church - the gathering of believers - is but  part of the Christian existence and the authority of church should be mostly limited to the fellowship. 6. Your Christian faith of course, should drive, colour, and motivate all spheres of your life.

woye77:

a lot of churches and pastors believe this should be the norm - pray, then speak to d pastor and pastor speaks to lady on your behalf - what do you think?

Religious organisations and their officers can enact whatever laws they deem fit. If you don't like it don't join or pay their subscriptions.

Come? Do they go as far as suggesting frequency and position? Its only that some of these organisations are run by very old, very staid people?

nobody has ever said christ is not the head of the churc h,pls read comments in their entirety before jumping to hurried and flawed conclusions,what i said was that a pastor was the head of "his church or parish" unless what u are saying is that jesus christ is present in every single parigh sitting down in front and doing all the pastoral duties!!

TV01:

_{Warning - I couldn't procure a Valentine' date for love or money, so I'm taking my ire out on religionists, monetizers, haemaphrodites or any other purveyor of nonsense that strays into my path!}

@ OP a few points

1. There is no such thing as "The Pastor". Suggesting that one man - shepherding is not open to females - runs/heads/leads a congregation.
2. Congregations are shepherded by a "plurality" of suitably qualified elders - I'm referring to the norm here, not exceptional circumstances.
3. Marriage is between families, as the bible makes clear. Church involvement is not essential, although permitted and possibly useful.
4. There is only one Head of the Church (the body- The Lord Jesus Christ - blasphemers please take note.
5. Church - the gathering of believers - is but part of the Christian existence and the authority of church should be mostly limited to the fellowship. 6. Your Christiaqn faith of course, should drive, colour, and motivate all spheres of your life.

Religious organisations and their officers can enact whatever laws they deem fit. If you don't like it don't join or pay their subscriptions.

Come? Do they go as far as suggesting frequency and position? Its only that some of these organisations are run by very old, very staid people?

i think you r better off speaking for yourself and in the realm of your own experience rather than making your comment a given
1.the dictionary meaning of a pastor is the head/sheperd of a particular church/parish therefore i totally disagree with you that there is no such thing as a pastor, during the time of the apostles everyone had a role to play and there was leadership.
2.can you name one church where "a plurality" sheperds the church?? not even the orthodox traditional churches
3.the first part of that comment is therefore a moot one if you agree that chruch involvement is useful and permitted
4. again read comments before jumpint to conclusions,no one has ever ascribed the headship of the church to a pastor, a parish or a single church is totally different from the communal church worldwide in the context of jesus's headship
5.so what comprises the fellowship if not the same male and female therein e.g a brother and a sister??

TV01:

_{Warning - I couldn't procure a Valentine' date for love or money, so I'm taking my ire out on religionists, monetizers, haemaphrodites or any other purveyor of nonsense that strays into my path!}

hehe

@ OP a few points

1. There is no such thing as "The Pastor". Suggesting that one man - shepherding is not open to females - runs/heads/leads a congregation.
2. [u]Congregations are shepherded by a "plurality" of suitably qualified elders[/] - I'm referring to the norm here, not exceptional circumstances.
3. Marriage is between families, as the bible makes clear. Church involvement is not essential, although permitted and possibly useful.
4. There is only one Head of the Church (the body- The Lord Jesus Christ - blasphemers please take note.
5. Church - the gathering of believers - is but part of the Christian existence and the authority of church should be mostly limited to the fellowship. 6. Your Christiaqn faith of course, should drive, colour, and motivate all spheres of your life.

Religious organisations and their officers can enact whatever laws they deem fit. If you don't like it don't join or pay their subscriptions.

Come? Do they go as far as suggesting frequency and position? Its only that some of these organisations are run by very old, very staid people?

Gbam left, right and center

Which is why I have repeatedly asked godson to show us his scripture where the pastor is the head of the church. Of course he can't cos no such verse exists. All these man-made doctrines enslaving people . . .

_{TV look behind the facade of the new id and see a very huge fan of yours. Hint beantown}

Arté:

Gbam left, right and center

Which is why I have repeatedly asked godson to show us his scripture where the pastor is the head of the church. Of course he can't cos no such verse exists. All these man-made doctrines enslaving people . . .

_{TV look behind the facade of the new id and see a very huge fan of yours. Hint beantown}

Hey you! Hows things? Hope alls well. I knew straight off Arté was not a new poster, but can't say I was anywhere near to figuring it was you. 'Sup with that? Hope all is well?.

Love the way you've let GODSON2009 talk his way into a corner and neatly parried side attacks at the same time. Kudos.

See the way he mashed up apostleship, shepherding  and then tried to introduce "dictionary definitions". The reply was so disjointed, if I hadn't been quoted, I would have thought he was addressing someone else. Religious minions, turning up for gunfights with water pistols . Its no fun anymore.

God bless
TV

TV01:

@ OP a few points

1. There is no such thing as "The Pastor". Suggesting that one man - shepherding is not open to females - runs/heads/leads a congregation.
2. Congregations are shepherded by a "plurality" of suitably qualified elders - I'm referring to the norm here, not exceptional circumstances.
3. Marriage is between families, as the bible makes clear. Church involvement is not essential, although permitted and possibly useful.
4. There is only one Head of the Church (the body- The Lord Jesus Christ - blasphemers please take note.
5. Church - the gathering of believers - is but part of the Christian existence and the authority of church should be mostly limited to the fellowship. 6. Your Christiaqn faith of course, should drive, colour, and motivate all spheres of your life.

Religious organisations and their officers can enact whatever laws they deem fit. If you don't like it don't join or pay their subscriptions.

ditto

@ topic

not necessarily but you can if you want to.

Personally, I think you should be convinced in[b] your[/b] own mind. In a godly manner of course. Not the wayo type.