yes

Murder is a crime in the Constitution of this world (world system/kingdom of this world). The law of the world is at variance with the laws of the kingdom of JESUS. If a citizen/ambassador (person of the world) commits murder and it is agreeable with the laws of this world, all well and good. He is serving his master. Remember not all death/killing are classified as murder. Some killing, example in self defense is allowed and permitted and also accidental deaths/killing mercy killings. But we (true Christians/ citizens/ambassador of the kingdom of heaven) have our own constitution.We judge by it and are guided by it. Abortion by my understanding is a killing/death of the unborn baby. But just like the other killing/death some are allowed/permitted I.e not classified as murder. Also is abortion, not all abortion is murder. some abortion is murder others are not, but certainly it is a killing/death. The limit/guiding principle as to whether a particular abortion is to be classified as murder or not, is determined by the kingdom in place( of this world or of heaven). We warn the citizens of this world of the of the wrath of our own king(JESUS) though technically they are not subject to him neither are under any obligation to obey him(Jesus) cos some day the kingdom of this world will become the kingdom of our LORD AND HIS CHRIST AND HE WILL REIGN FOREVER. so it is wiser to side with the conquering king and be persecuted at this present world and time than to face the wrath of the MOST HIGH GOD. JESUS said "I forewarn u whom u should fear, fear him who after he has destroyed the body has power to cast it into hell" the god/kingdom of this world have power only to destroy this body. the blood of the saints/followers will be avenged at the coming of the kingdom of heaven and they the saints/followers will be duly rewarded unfailingly. GOD IS GREAT

If nigerian politicians/military dictators had been aborted ,the country would be a better place today.

So abortion is alright in some instances

Abortion is a big no for me. But don't know if it's tantamount to murder.

Abortion is murder. And is a sin.

MrPrsdent:

If nigerian politicians/military dictators had been aborted ,the country would be a better place today.

So abortion is alright in some instances

Making this country great is not just dependent on our leaders. What of the citizens that are not law abiding, as simple as wear helmet, using seat belts how many comply. No human has the right to take a life he cannot create.

nuella2:

Abortion is murder. And is a sin.Making this country great is not just dependent on our leaders. What of the citizens that are not law abiding, as simple as wear helmet, using seat belts how many comply. No human has the right to take a life he cannot create.

what of the life of Abacha,Boko Haram etc. This your idea get K-leg

MrPrsdent:

what of the life of Abacha,Boko Haram etc. This your idea get K-leg

Which k-leg, God do not hate man put the sin and its his desire that people get save and know him. So God will not support aborting Abacha.

It is only God  that has the right to take life, he gave it . If you take life in any form, you have committed murder. Abortion is murder. Period. If your parent aborted you, will you be life today? Everybody is created for a purpose.

no comment

I personally think abortion should only be used in cases of rape, incest or medical emergencies. I think people should be able to have more common sense these days. Abortion should not be a form of birth control. Plus condoms and pills are cheaper than having an abortion. But that is just my opinion

Obviously, a foetus is a living thing. The question is - is it a human being?
Living things are creatures capable of mr niger d. Mvt, respiration, nutrituion, irritability, growth, excretion,reproduction and death
We all know what a human being is. Living creature capable of thinking and showing emotions

I wanna agree with someone who said it depends on the stage of growth.

I wonder why at times we choose to be blind to certain truths. Abortion is murder, it is wickedness, its is cruel, any any gal who does it dosent deserve to ever have a child.99% do not do it for health reasons, or for ugly circumstances that led to it, such as rape etc, most do it cos they got it at at time they were not ready to be a mother, or the dude responsible was not ready to be a father,hence they go and wickedly take a growing baby in them,cut growing baby from food supply and air thereby snuffing life out of the innocent child.I understand why most gals are in support, its because its either they have done it, their friends,relations, have done it, hence the need to generate arr to support their claims, for all those gals who are courageuos to say the truth,kudos to you you are positively representing motherhood, Abortion is Murder


@real_demi i must confess, your post just educated me and increased my knowledge and understanding, thumbs up for you, nice one

IMO abortion is not murder. Unless, of course, it is being done on some kitchen table by a quack . . that could be double homicide 

Maxidoe:

most do it cos they got it at at time they were not ready to be a mother, or the dude responsible was not ready to be a father,

Are those not good enough reasons to not bring a child into this "wonderful" world?

Krayola:

IMO abortion is not murder. Unless of course, it is being done on some kitchen table by a quack . . that could be [b]double [/b]homicide


Are those not good enough reasons to not bring a child into this "wonderful" world?

are u not contradicting yourself here?

There is NOTHING wrong with abortion.

A woman has a right to decide what to do with whatever is in her body be it tumor, bullet or pregnancy it don't matter! As long as its still in her body.

honeric01:

are u not contradicting yourself here?

haha . . .  not if it's the "doctor" that murders the "mother", and the state that murders the "doctor".  

Krayola:

haha . . .  not if it's the "doctor" that murders the "mother", and the state that murders the "doctor".  

if the mother is winning to "murder the unborn baby, why then is it an homicide if the "doctor" ends up murdering the "mother"?

one more thing, if it's not a murder to abort a pregnancy, why then did you use "mother" to classify the woman in question?

honeric01:

if the mother is winning to "murder the unborn baby, why then is it an homicide if the "doctor" ends up murdering the "mother"?

Because, IMO, the unborn baby is not a person (before the point where it can survive outside the womb by itself). Murder is taking the life of a person, not just anything that is alive.

honeric01:

one more thing, if it's not a murder to abort a pregnancy, why then did you use "mother" to classify the woman in question?

I put it in quotes cause it's easier to use that word to identify the person i'm referring to. "pregnant individual" has 12 more characters . . .can't I just be lazy?

MrPrsdent:

If nigerian politicians/military dictators had been aborted ,the country would be a better place today.

So abortion is alright in some instances

Abortion is BAD! It is MURDER! No matter how u try to paint it white we all know dat it is a MURDER case.

ABORTION IS MURDER.
most of those defending it are female,who are mainly based in US N Europe were it is legalised, n who may not be innocent of d act,hence d defence.

Krayola:

Because, IMO, the unborn baby is not  a person (before the point where it can survive outside the womb by itself). Murder is taking the life of a person, not just anything that is alive.

 Still not convincing enough, even a baby that has been born can't survive by his or herself, so why is the case of the one in the womb different? a baby in the womb is not anything, it's a baby for God sake, why then does a doctor tells his patient that you are pregnant with a baby, why don't they use the word "thing" instead of a baby since you call a baby in the womb anything that is alive?

Krayola:

I put it in quotes cause it's easier to use that word to identify the person i'm referring to. "pregnant individual" has 12 more characters . . .can't I just be lazy?  

that's not laziness, it's because deep inside of you, you know a pregnant woman is an expecting and would-be mother and not just any normal woman out there.

honeric01:

 Still not convincing enough, even a baby that has been born can't survive by his or herself, so why is the case of the one in the womb different? a baby in the womb is not anything, it's a baby for God sake, why then does a doctor tells his patient that you are pregnant with a baby, why don't they use the word "thing" instead of a baby since you call a baby in the womb anything that is alive?

How are the contents of the womb in the early stages of pregnancy a full human being to be given moral consideration. . .a person. . . . ?

It isn't whether the fetus/baby/whateva u wan call am- can survive by itself that is the deciding factor of person-hood IMO , but whether it is part of the moral community (just used that cause that is how the law decides and I didn't want to make a long post that i probably have to make now  ). We do not consider other animals as humans because they are not part of this community. . .

IMO, Characteristics of person-hood include sentience, reason (capacity to solve new and relatively complex problems), the capacity to communicate (on indefinitely number of possible contents, and topics), self-awareness, moral agency (capacity to regulate one's own actions through moral principles or ideals), emotionality.

Now, one does not have to have all these together to be considered a person, but my point is that something that has NONE of these characteristics should not be considered a person. I do not believe that a fetus in the early stages of pregnancy has any of the characteristics that make it a candidate for moral consideration 

honeric01:

that's not laziness, it's because deep inside of you, you know a pregnant woman is an expecting and would-be mother and not just any normal woman out there.

haha. My brotha. I'll rather have a debate with u in which u didn't try to tell me (guess) what was "deep inside me". lol. Just respond to the points I make in my posts. Thank you.   Up Barca!! 

life starts wen d sperm fuses wit d ovary, so fink its not abt ur wat u feel is right or wrong but wat d truth is,
life starts dat way so y alter it

udennaa:

ABORTION IS MURDER.
most of those defending it are female,who are mainly based in US N Europe were it is legalised, n who may not be innocent of d act,hence d defence.

You can't judge or say this to be true!! It is merely an assumption!! It is legal here for a reason!! It is called civil rights of ones own body! No one can make a mother deliver with a gun to her head. Most times abortions are given in the place of child abuse, child neglect, murder(losing both live) and so on! It may be evil to some, but to others it is the lesser of to evils. I would rather not see a baby suffer through life cause someone else wanted a mother to give birth.

Even though I present no arguement for either side, know this, that I raised my son from the age of 16 and on my own because it was the right thing to do for me in the eyes of the Lord. If someone else would be tortured doing such, I would not judge.

There are some who do it for convience. I have a relative who cheated on her husband and got pregnant. She aborted the fetus without the husbands knowledge then became pregnant from the husband! That my friends is murder, she wanted and had a child regardless of abortion, but her stupidity made it with the wrong father so she used abortion in the place of using her head!! She could have kept quiet if the other man wasn't of another heritage!! This to me is a form of murder, she could have admitted her sin and had the child she was carrying!! Unexcusable!

vire:

life starts wen d spermatozoa fuses wit d ovary, so fink its not abt your wat u feel is right or wrong but wat d truth is,
life starts dat way so y alter it

We take life all the time. . . from cutting down trees to eating burgers, suya, etc. Or is it only life that could potentially become a human being that is worth preserving? Isn't that kinda speciesist?

Krayola:

How are the contents of the womb in the early stages of pregnancy a full human being to be given moral consideration. . .a person. . . . ?

It isn't whether the fetus/baby/whateva u wan call am- can survive by itself that is the deciding factor of person-hood IMO , but whether it is part of the moral community (just used that cause that is how the law decides and I didn't want to make a long post that i probably have to make now  ). We do not consider other animals as humans because they are not part of this community. . .

IMO, Characteristics of person-hood include sentience, reason (capacity to solve new and relatively complex problems), the capacity to communicate (on indefinitely number of possible contents, and topics), self-awareness, moral agency (capacity to regulate one's own actions through moral principles or ideals), emotionality.

Now, one does not have to have all these together to be considered a person, but my point is that something that has NONE of these characteristics should not be considered a person. I do not believe that a fetus in the early stages of pregnancy has any of the characteristics that make it a candidate for moral consideration

 Lol, thank God you said YOU, that means it's just your opinion and not the opinion of the majority of the earth's population, since you want to make it so long, i'd be glad to give you long examples too.
A mad man (were or craze person) is still considered a person even if he's not conscious of 90% of his decisions.
A child that has been born can't do almost all of the things you outlined as the characteristics of your own definition of a human being, but does that make a baby (still very dependent on his or her mother to survive) less human?

A baby in the womb would out of slight discomfort react by turning in the womb and most women get the message (even though the baby is still in the womb), he or she can still pass message across to the mother when in need of anything but this depends on how "old the baby" is in the womb.

one of your points spoke about animals, but i want you to know that animals are really not what we are discussing here, animals ain't humans and almost all animals are there for us to survive on.

A baby is tagged living and human once he or she starts breathing, has been determined to be either a male or a female, can pass messages across to the mother in any form or ways.

Because a baby is in his or her early form does not make him or her less of a human being as long as it's formed and can breath.

Krayola:

haha. My brotha. I'll rather have a debate with u in which u didn't try to tell me (guess) what was "deep inside me". lol. Just respond to the points I make in my posts. Thank you.   Up Barca!! 

well, i guessed due to the way you said it lol, anyways i have answered your questions and might not be on to keep answering more of your questions but i would rather let you know one thing that life begins once there's a breathing.

hope Barca bro, we should be able to do the do tonight.

The breath of life that God gives us!! Exactly!!

Why do non Jewish people quote the old testament?!?!?! People Jesus came after that!! If your Christian you follow the new testament!!

Exodus, give your head a shake!! First off the translations have misconstrued every quote I have ever heard and the persons ego only quotes what sounds useful to them at the time! I have had enough bible quotes to strangle a Christian!! Get with the program, use the knowledge we have to decifer the quotes from original text also taking into consideration the times and eras. Your quotes no matter who you are will rarely be what you planned on saying!! Peace out!! KNOWledge is power!! Guessing and using someone else's interpretation is plagiarism!!

The word of God in it's time was truth!! Now it's only man sick interpretation to gain money and power!!

When most people are buckled to a corner, most of you saying all this wont even remember all this verses and theories.
In effect what i am saying is that it is easier to preach what we may never practice. When faced with realities of life, abortion whatever angle you look at it from is a solution which is inevitable. For those of you advocating otherwise i which you/sister get r/aped by an unknown fellow and be told you/she are pregnant (set of twins) and see if you dont go for the abortion option immediately.

Abortion is absolutely bad. It is terminating the life of an innocent child who you don't even know what he/she can become in life. Most of the time people don't want to face consequences of their actions. If two people can be irresponsible enough to engage in an unprotected premarital sex, then they should not shy away when its time to face the consequence. Abortion should not be the easy exit out rather people should learn how to take responsibility! There are many contraceptives around and most of them are cheap so why should people who're foolish enough not to protect themself (fully aware of the likely result whether married or not) be doubly irresponsible to cut an innocent life whom they've invited to this world with their careless attitude?
My humble self would have been a victim if not for the repentance of my mother. Today I'm 28 years, a graduate and and working with a financial institution (i don't need to say all these cos i know God is still taking me to higher places, but just to let you know that a life you abort can become anything in this world). I personally know of a woman that got married, gave birth to a girl and after that girl she did not get pregnant again. The girl should be in her final year at UNILORIN now. Imagine if this woman had had an abortion due to her careless behavior while she was young, that could have been the abortion of her only child in this world.
However despite my stance on abortion, there some situations where i can consent to it and these are the circumstances:

a. A case of rape e.g during armed robbery. If the lady can not handle the thought of having the child that will forever remind her of the terrible situation (though if she can handle it, i will suggest that she leaves the child).

b. A situation where the child threatens the life of the mother. In this case i support abortion 100%.

Apart from the above i dont want to understand any other reason for abortion. It is worse than murder because the victim does not even have the chance to defend him or herself. You might think it's your body, heck no! If you think it's your body why not predict when you will leave this world or can you predict how that body will look or what sex that body will be when you were coming to this world. That baby might the one that might liberate your generation from poverty, he or she might be the only one that you will ever get. Think of those who are crying day and night for just a child before you commit the next abortion. I stand the chance of people calling me an old school or dim wit or slow-poke or idiot or what is another phrase used in deprecating people on Nairaland? but word is enough for the wise.

hardywaltz:

When most people are buckled to a corner, most of you saying all this wont even remember all this verses and theories.
In effect what i am saying is that it is easier to preach what we may never practice. When faced with realities of life, abortion whatever angle you look at it from is a solution which is inevitable. For those of you advocating otherwise i which you/sister get r/aped by an unknown fellow and be told you/she are pregnant (set of twins) and see if you dont go for the abortion option immediately.  

I agree with you, sometimes it is self defence for the woman, not simply murder as others believe!