In general, I will consider other variables e.g my safety, before I do anything. The life directly at risk will not be the only consideration

And that is fine, you cannot put one life in danger for the sake of another unless it is your life and you are making that sacrifice.

You should instead try every possible way to save the person without putting your life in danger. But then again, what do Police officers, fire fighters, military, and medical officials do? They put their life at risk for the sake of others.

A child is, IMO, entitled to moral consideration. A fetus in the early stages of pregnancy is not, IMO, entitled to the same moral consideration that a child is. What exactly is it about about a fetus that makes it entitled to the same consideration a child is?

It has the same genetics?
Morality is not the determination of the human being

You are pretty much arguing that a fetus is a person (or should be considered one) from the moment of conception, because it can potentially develop into a human being; but I don't think that quite does it

A sperm and an egg apart are potential human beings, a sperm and an egg infused is human life, I gave the definition of that already. It's not my made up definition it is biology's definition, it is science's definition.

It isn't an emotional appeal, it is an objective scientific fact.

An orange seed can develop into an orange tree, but an orange seed is NOT an orange tree.

By scientific definition, yeah it is.

While I do agree that a fetus develops into a human person before birth, I do not believe that a fetus in the early stages of pregnancy is a human person, nor entitled to all the right a human person is.

Then what is it? and can you prove it from science?

A spermatozoa and an egg are not potential anything. They are simply spermatozoas and eggs.

When they join together, we can start discussing if we should at this point consider them as potential human beings.

Now, I will grant you that a fetus is a human person from the moment of conception and does have a right to life. Your argument then becomes that A fetus is a person, every person has a right to life, so a fetus has a right to life. . . and even though a mother has a right to decide what occurs in and/or happens to her body, the fetus' (person's) right to life outweighs that. Am I correct? I just want to make sure before I deal with that.

Ofcourse it does, just like my right to life trumps your right to shoot a gun at me.

If you wish to do something to your body (which isn't fully a right, seeing that no one has the right to suicide) your right to do something to your body ends at my right to life. If doing something to your body affects my right to life, then my right to life trumps you doing something to your body. If this doesn't hold, then all hell breaks looose, and I can claim that my right to shoot trumps your right to life, do you agree with that?

There are also women who have had abortions and lived happily ever after. I don't think you can decide for everyone based on the few people you are familiar with. Just my opinion though.

And I never attempted to do such, but I've never come across a woman who wasn't affected by her abortion either mentally or physically.

An orange seed is an orange tree I must cut down on the weed  

I think it is appropriate for the father to have a say, but ultimately it is the woman's body and time, and the final decision, in my humble opinion, must be hers.

But that's not the case in fact. She destroys another person's body. The fetus does have a body, it's not some invisible thing, it is visible, and it is living, and it is destroyed.

A spermatozoa and an egg are not potentials anything. They are simply spermatozoas and eggs.

Can you prove this from science?

Chrisbenogor:

An orange seed is an orange tree I must cut down on the weed

You smoke weed?

~Lady~:

Can you prove this from science?

Can you also prove your assertion from science?

What? Next thing you'll be asking for a ban on condoms, day after pills, birth control pills because they kill potentials human beings? Are we serious?

We can as well stop having sex for pleasure and every sexual encounter must be for procreation. We sure don't want to deny POTENTIAL human beings of their right to live.

Chrisbenogor:

An orange seed is an orange tree I must cut down on the weed  

If I am seeing stuff like this I must be smoking something . . .or wait was that what you really typed


;DHow body na?
I see you are tackling some new guys with fresh blood here, me I don big pass quote and reply for here, this matter is simple, at what point is something a human being? But wait I thought there was something like chemical abortions no?

Chrisbenogor:

If I am seeing stuff like this I must be smoking something . . .or wait was that what you really typed


;DHow body na?
I see you are tackling some new guys with fresh blood here, me I don big pass quote and reply for here, this matter is simple, at what point is something a human being? But wait I thought there was something like chemical abortions no?

I think either way you're smoking.

New guys with fresh blood?

I've been gone for over a year. So I don't know what's going on with people here.

Body dey o, just have much to do.
How are you?

michelin89:

Can you also prove your assertion from science?

What? Next thing you'll be asking for a ban on condoms, day after pills, birth control pills because they kill potentials human beings? Are we serious?

We can as well stop having intimacy for pleasure and every sexual encounter must be for procreation. We sure don't want to deny POTENTIAL human beings of their right to live.

I already did.

That would be ideal. When we have stronger family lives we have better society, this is just something sociologists know.

But then again we don't care to think that way do we? We must all become rabbits that hump everything in sight.

@Lady when I say morally human (moral consideration), I mean entitled to all the rights a human person is, and not that an immoral person is not human.

I'll respond to your posts later cause I'm not home now and I can't hijack my friend's laptop for too long. 

~Lady~:

I already did.

That would be ideal. When we have stronger family lives we have better society, this is just something sociologists know.

But then again we don't care to think that way do we? We must all become rabbits that hump everything in sight.

There are extremists in every ideal.

Krayola:

@Lady when I say morally human (moral consideration), I mean entitled to all the rights a human person is, and not that an immoral person is not human.

I'll respond to your posts later cause I'm not home now and I can't hijack my friend's laptop for too long. 

In order for one to be entitled to the rights of a human person, we first need to determine if one is actually human, you were giving me the impression that it is the moral consideration of a human that determines the entitlements to all the rights of a human person.

If you're telling me that moral consideration means entitled to all the rights a human person is, then you're basically saying that 'entitled to all the rights a human person is' determines the entitlements to all the rights of a human person.

See how that doesn't make sense?

I'm under the impression that we're trying to determine what makes a human being

michelin89:

There are extremists in every ideal.

You call it extremists, I call it truth, either way I have a stronger stance than you do. And my stance makes sense.

No you don't and it doesn't.

But I do find it funny to know we still have people like you!

It's amazing how people are screamning "what if by rape" when in reality a tiny inconquential portion of women who commit abortion were raped
In some places like Nigeria,woman actually use abortion as a form of contraception.
Abortion in a nutshell is murder
plain and simple
If you must fornicate, make him wear a rain coat
many of these ladies all over the churches in Nigeria fasting and praying for fruits of the womb have flushed out the God given ration earlier in life.
If you're a man and encourage women to have abortions after you've impregnated them,mmay you end up with a woman whose fallopian tubes are no good just like the ones tyou ruined.

~Lady~:

I already did.

That would be ideal. When we have stronger family lives we have better society, this is just something sociologists know.

But then again we don't care to think that way do we? We must all become rabbits that hump everything in sight.

What sociologists?? The ones that believe that have been gone since the 1960s.

This is 2010, I give y'all five years to catch up with the rest of the world.

0hsisi:

It's amazing how people are screamning "what if by despoil" when in reality a tiny inconquential portion of women who commit abortion were despoiled
In some places like Nigeria,woman actually use abortion as a form of contraception.
Abortion in a nutshell is murder
plain and simple
If you must fornicate, make him wear a rain coat
many of these ladies all over the churches in Nigeria fasting and praying for fruits of the womb have flushed out the God given ration earlier in life.
If you're a man and encourage women to have abortions after you've impregnated them,mmay you end up with a woman whose fallopian tubes are no good just like the ones tyou ruined.

There are always going to be fools who'll take advantage of their rights.

People make mistakes and even rain coats break. Besides even abortion is done within the right time.

~Lady~:


Even though it has a heart beat at week 4?
A well developed cardiovascular system at week 4, many women don't even know they're pregnant at this point.
But let me address your statement directly

1. Infants brain development at the time of birth are the same as when in the womb, after the embryonic stage not much development takes place, all that is needed to recognise it as a human is already in place. This is the science they refuse to tell ppl about. It is developed enough to cause the heart to beat. I saw this with my own eyes.
2. This brain development happens at week 8 and before even, because after this time, there are movements in the womb, neurons are already in place and function.
3. By week 12 you can already see the brain, and all things functioning properly.
4. The brain has to be developed enough, in order for the other body parts to develop and start functioning. So it is enough.
5. An infants brain is not well developed, it is still developing, what the infant can recognise is the same as it can recognise as a fetus.
6. Example, my Godson, when in the womb his mother called him Preston, when he came out she would call him Emmanuel, he wouldn't respond, but when called Preston, he responded, you will see him make movements that he recognises not just the voice but the name. This was recognisable from the womb.

As for pain "Pain pathways run from sensory receptors in the skin to those in the brain. Nerve endings that sense pain are at least as dense in the skin of a newborn as in an adult. Such receptors appear around the mouth in the 5th week after conception, and are present in the face, the palms, and the soles of the feet by the 9th week, spreading to the trunk, arms, and legs by the 13th week, and to all areas of the skin by the 18th week. The development of the neocortex, the largest part of the brain, begins at 6 weeks after conception, and by 18 weeks a full complement of nerve cells is present. The evidence thus suggests that by late in gestation the fetus has developed sufficiently to sense pain." - Pain and its Effects in the Human Neonate and Fetus.
K.J.S. Anand, M.B.B.S., and P.R. Hickey, M.D.,

Thank you sweetie
Most women are unaware of any pregnacies till they miss a period and that's 4 weeks
Then even at that,they wait around thinking they have miscalculated and hoping for the period to show,perhaps another 2 weeks
Another large number are confused when it dawns on them they are indeed pregnant,they panic and are in a state of denial,meanwhile the baby gets larger
Most eventually go through with the abortions when the pregnancy is over 10 weeks.

michelin89:

There are always going to be fools who'll take advantage of their rights.

People make mistakes and even rain coats break. Besides even abortion is done within the right time.

does that make it Ok?
what is a right time?

We live in a very hypocritical soceity
a soceity that would condone late term abortions but place a rule that if the baby refuses to die in the womb and is delivered alive,the abortionist will be charged with murder for suffocating the baby in a polythene bag.
there was a case in Florida some years ago.
Let everyone live with thier conscience, if they have any, it doesn't change what's wrong and what's right

There's a video that these abortion rights activitists that call themselves pro choice has fought tooth and nail to ban from abortion clinics because most of the women who have watched it at these clinics changed their minds and opted to keep their babies
It's a video in 3D that shows exactly how the abortionist doctor kills an unwanted baby in the womb and how the baby dies
Let me see if I can find it.

"[flash=425,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvshMADC7s0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"><[/flash]

Please watch that whole clip and others and see an abortion taking place as seen in an ultrasound

There's a newer 3 D version that I can't find

ah Ohsisi that's the video

there are testimonies abortion clinic directors who came out and said what they plan is. they switched sides. one of them actually spoke of her experience and what changed her mind.

She was watching an abortion take place and didn't think anything of it. Until she saw the babe move away from the saline solution, the baby kept moving and made movements as it was feeling pain. She changed her mind quickly.

michelin89:

No you don't and it doesn't.

But I do find it funny to know we still have people like you!

There are more like me, and even more increasing, I find it funny that there are people like you too. Like really your ideology escapes logic.
Notice how you've done nothing but attack my person? That's the only life line you have. Sad shame.

How have I attacked your person?

michelin89:

How have I attacked your person?

Here:

There are extremists in every ideal.

But I do find it funny to know we still have people like you!

I've made statements and as I do, I back it up.
You made a statement I asked you to back it up, instead of doing so you proceeded to tell me how I am. See that you didn't provide any facts to back up your claim, all you did was spout ideologies and talk about me.

0hsisi:

does that make it Ok?
what is a right time?

We live in a very hypocritical soceity
a soceity that would condone late term abortions but place a rule that if the baby refuses to die in the womb and is delivered alive,the abortionist will be charged with murder for suffocating the baby in a polythene bag.
there was a case in Florida some years ago.
Let everyone live with thier conscience, if they have any, it doesn't change what's wrong and what's right

Abortion is a right of a woman. It is her body. No one is telling you to abort, but if someone chooses to, that should be the least of our concern.

That law wasn't created after a serene sleep by the legislators. It is there because someone wanted it and others thought it was legitimate. We are free to discuss all the moral implications of abortion, but calling it murder is way out of proportion.

Not to mention that someone thinks spermatozoas and eggs should be treated with gloves because they are potential lives. That is absurd.

~Lady~:

Here:

There are extremists in every ideal.

But I do find it funny to know we still have people like you!

I've made statements and as I do, I back it up.
You made a statement I asked you to back it up, instead of doing so you proceeded to tell me how I am. See that you didn't provide any facts to back up your claim, all you did was spout ideologies and talk about me.

You won't deny your worship of eggs and spermatozoas is extreme, will you?

Yes I find it funny people like you think condoms and any other form of contraceptive are a threat to possible human lives.

eldee:

What sociologists?? The ones that believe that have been gone since the 1960s.

This is 2010, I give y'all five years to catch up with the rest of the world.

You seem to think that the world is always right. What is happening now isn't new, do some research and see history. The world ends up backstepping when it realises it mistakes.

This is the cycle. New age ideologies are self-destructive, have always been and will always be.

They have no basis and are very illogical

When taken in a debate, logic escapes.

the only sociologists that see family life as something negative are radical feminists who think women being women is a bad thing, and marxists. We've already seen how destructive marxism is, and well radical feminists make no sense.

michelin89:

You won't deny your worship of eggs and spermatozoas is extreme, will you?

Yes I find it funny people like you think condoms and any other form of contraceptive are a threat to possible human lives.

That's bcus you don't know the consequences of them in our society.

I stated earlier that Planned Parenthood reported that 54% of the women who come in for an abortion were on contraceptives. [size=14pt]54%[/size]. If abortion is taking lives, and ppl who use contraceptives expect them to work, but they really don't, and so to take care of their 'problem' they make up rights for themselves.

~Lady~:

That's bcus you don't know the consequences of them in our society.

I stated earlier that Planned Parenthood reported that 54% of the women who come in for an abortion were on contraceptives. [size=14pt]54%[/size]. If abortion is taking lives, and ppl who use contraceptives expect them to work, but they really don't, and so to take care of their 'problem' they make up rights for themselves.

You should be filing a report against the companies who produce faulty contraceptives.

Those women expect an efficient service and they don't have pleasure going for an abortion.

If murder means 'taking of human life' then abortion is murder. This does nt necesarily mean it is evil or wrong. Circumstance is what makes d act right or wrong. Assasination is murder, execution is murder, killing in war is murder, etc, bt d circumstance surrounding d act makes it wrong or right. If d fellows who hung Saddam Hussien sneaked into his house and hung him, u kw they wud b world most wanted fellows, bt they did the same act of hanging in a diffrnt circumstance and 4 some pple, they are heros! Same act make one a criminal in one circumstance and in anoda it makes one a hero. Abortion has the same principle, there is no one-size-fit-all morality!