ScienceWatch:
You are a brilliant Atheist to have come to this conclusion.
So what is your grip with Prof. Zimmerman. We are waiting.

My bad for butting in. But you have not even showed us he exists. Is that not sufficient gripe with you?

JackBizzle:


A normal human being wouldnt have posted this. You are not okay

Yet you have nothing to offer to help solve this problem. only a few snide remarks so that others can quickly recognize you as a Low-level Atheist.
I know you are still hurting because I pledged a lousy N800 monthly to help you pay your N5,0000 monthly Atheist tithes/registrations so you can finally become a recognized member and not a miserable troll.

budaatum:

My bad for butting in. But you have not even showed us he exists. Is that not sufficient gripe with you?

It is bad that you butt in on behalf of Jackbizzle, he is perfectly capable.

ScienceWatch:
It is bad that you butt in on behalf of Jackbizzle, he is perfectly capable.

I am sure it is, and offered my bads. You did however make a claim that we were disputing, and is the purpose of this thread. I could not let it pass.

budaatum:


I know nothing about Professor Willem Ouwenee. So I read up on wiki. Below are some of the views he has had:

Creation and Evolution
For a long time he was a young-earth creationist who believed that the earth was created no more than six to ten thousand years ago.

Biologits are very unlikely to have regard for anyone, not to talk of a Ph.D holder in the subject, who holds this view. There is afterall an insurmountable amount of evidence to oppose it. He does not hold this view anymore, and is said to tend more towards a model of 'guided evolutionism' or theistic evolution, something he previously strongly opposed as "a slippery slope towards an ultimately unadulterated evolution faith.

He has further gone on to say, it is claimed, that,
The widely believed scientific method, the requirement of empirical and logical verifiability, etc., are nothing more than states of mind.

Another view scientists would hold in utter contempt and one any scientist would never claim.

If those truly are Professor Willem Ouwenee's views, it is hardly surprising that he is mocked by his peers! Even conservative evangelical Christians oppose his views! It is said that:

It is not easy to get a clear picture of his opinion of theological subjects. In addition, some critics accuse him of vacillating in his writings and lectures or of contradicting what he has written in previous publications.

He can of course put his money where his mouth is and publish his own books, but no sensible parent would pay for their child to study his works, in my opinion, nor would an intelligent person hold his views at any respectable level of esteem. A very confused and convoluted individual is more what Professor Willem Ouwenee sounds like.

As to those "mentally diseased Atheists in powerful positions", the facts hardly support your position. It is in fact truer that there are many more people of faith in powerful positions, so many in fact, that some places have laws excluding atheists. It is also enormously harder to silence people or views today than it was in the early first century. One just has to search for the views of terrorists, to pick one, to see how almost impossible it is. Heretics were burned at the stake in past times. Best we have today is to label them or hunt them down and blow them out of existence. Atheists would hardly go to that extent, or at least I have no record that they have.

Are you attempting to pass off anecdotes as evidence a la, planes crash ergo all planes crash, by any chance? Are you also passing off opinion as fact? Such reasoning is hardly sufficiently rigorous nor acceptable to be taken as evidence by anyone who has an incline of what science is. There sure is nothing scientific in it as that would at least require some level of verifiability.

Please let me know in which way you watch science. It is what piqued my interest at the first read of the title of this thread as claimed by you.

Now Wiki is your authority for your attack on a truly great man. The honorable Prof. Ouweneel at least spend millions to investigate. You on the other hand present these claims as fact and therefore feed the reader with your uninformed personal opinions hoping to score points. That is hardly scientific !

Prof.Ouweneel is not only mocked by his biased peers, but also by you who have no knowledge of what this man is about other than your 3 minute wiki investigation.

budaatum:

I am sure it is, and offered my bads. You did however make a claim that we were disputing, and is the purpose of this thread. I could not let it pass.

No offence, I understand.

JackBizzle:


A normal human being wouldnt have posted this. You are not okay

Another question for you Jackbizzle, your High-Level helper Budaatum should guide your thinking on this.

What is another Professor saying about Low-Level Atheists below;

Professor Alister McGrath made his predictions on Athesism during the annual Parchman Lectures at Baylor University's Truett Theological Seminary, the Baptist Standard reports.

The academic, who has degrees in molecular biology, theology and intellectual history, spoke on "why faith makes sense: exploring the rationality of Christianity."

McGrath said he was an atheist as a young man, but faith makes greater sense of reality and transcends reason, which is insufficient for understanding the world.
"New Atheism ridicules the 'irrationality of faith,'" said McGrath, who has debated New Atheist icons such as Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens. "But it's in decline, because it's stale, dull and incredible. It provides unsatisfactory answers to ultimate questions. People want to know more."

I think that it is interesting that such a great mind can come to the conclusion that Atheism, "is in decline, because it's stale, dull and incredible. It provides unsatisfactory answers to ultimate questions. People want to know more."

I cannot fail to observe that this Oxford professor has arrive at the same conclusion as Prof. Ouwennel when he ridiculed the atheist claim that reality is only "what reason and science can demonstrate," pointing out the limits of science and the ambiguous nature of scientific truth.
By contrast McGrath said faith offers the best world view to "make sense of what we experience. "Faith can accept the contributions of science but then fill in the missing pieces of meaning and understanding.

ScienceWatch:
Now Wiki is your authority for your attack on a truly great man. The honorable Prof. Ouweneel at least spend millions to investigate. You on the other hand present these claims as fact and therefore feed the reader with your uninformed personal opinions hoping to score points. That is hardly scientific !

Prof.Ouweneel is not only mocked by his biased peers, but also by you who have no knowledge of what this man is about other than your 3 minute wiki investigation.

By debunking wiki as you have done, you have at least shown that you understand what evidence is. I also put it to you that you have not provided a single source for Hans Zimmerman that is as credible as wiki. You have in fact not provided any source at all.

You also claim that I present claims as facts. That's not true. I have presented what has been said about him. Surely, if you have anything to say about him apart from extolling his PhD and his wealth, which are irrelevant, you would present it. But the best you come up with is that some people made he and Hans Zimmerman disappear.

Wiki is actually a very reputable source I'd have you know. Anyone can go write something there, but if others find credible source to dispute what has been written, they would amend it. Does Prof Ouweneel not have disciples who can correct wiki if it is wrong. How about you, or do you have no evidence for what you say about him?

Please note that I do not take unverifiable assertions as facts that I must believe. If Christ did not check his facts and understand too, he would have made stones bread, thrown himself from the top of the temple or bowed down and worshipped satan, afterall, satan was quoting from the Bible too! Who would have been the saviour then? The entire life of Christ, and his death would be worthless if there were no rigour in my scrutiny of evidence.

If you have any evidence for the existence of Hans Zimmerman or the study in which he mentioned atheisms is a mental disease, please present it. If not, do say so.

budaatum:


I know nothing about Professor Willem Ouwenee. So I read up on wiki. Below are some of the views he has had:

Creation and Evolution
For a long time he was a young-earth creationist who believed that the earth was created no more than six to ten thousand years ago.

Biologists are very unlikely to have regard for anyone, not to talk of a Ph.D holder in the subject, who holds this view. There is afterall an insurmountable amount of evidence to oppose it. He does not hold this view anymore, and is said to tend more towards a model of 'guided evolutionism' or theistic evolution, something he previously strongly opposed as "a slippery slope towards an ultimately unadulterated evolution faith.

He has further gone on to say, it is claimed, that,
The widely believed scientific method, the requirement of empirical and logical verifiability, etc., are nothing more than states of mind.

Another view scientists would hold in utter contempt and one any scientist would never claim.

If those truly are Professor Willem Ouweneels views, it is hardly surprising that he is mocked by his peers!

Professor McGrath said, "New Atheism ridicules the 'irrationality of faith,'" said McGrath, who has debated New Atheist icons such as Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens. "But it's in decline, because it's stale, dull and incredible. It provides unsatisfactory answers to ultimate questions. People want to know more."
I cannot fail to observe that this Oxford professor has arrive at the same conclusion as Prof. Ouwennel when he ridiculed the atheist claim that reality is only "what reason and science can demonstrate," pointing out the limits of science and the ambiguous nature of scientific truth.

Professor McGrath said faith offers the best world view to "make sense of what we experience. "Faith can accept the contributions of science but then fill in the missing pieces of meaning and understanding.

The academic, Prof. McGrath who has degrees in molecular biology, theology and intellectual history, spoke on "why faith makes sense: exploring the rationality of Christianity."

The academic, Professor Willem Ouweneels holds doctorates in biology (Utrecht), philosophy (Amsterdam) and theology (Bloemfontein, RSA). Professor Ouweneel is a theology and philosophy professor at several colleges and theological faculties.

budaatum:
If you think that an atheist is a problem, and somehow they are mentally ill, you have serious priority issues, my friend.

We are all human beings that can, and should, be allowed to hold different beliefs. If one of those beliefs is that the existence of a god is not probable, or that there is no evidence for the existence of a deity, then let it be. Focus on what you are doing yourself, for if a god exists, surely he, or she, will prefer that you did good things to your fellow humans rather than prostrating five times a day and thanking him for allowing you to blow up children.[/i]

Excellent, thanks. budaatum, I wish to say that Atheists are not my priority, far from it.
Low-level Atheists will disagree with your wise saying, "We are all human beings that can, and should, be allowed to hold different beliefs."
They have created a clear distinction for themselves; Atheists are accidental beings, a by-product of the Big Bang and scientific theories.
Whereas Muslims, Christians etc have conclusively proved that they are uniquely CREATED beings with a powerful living spirit.

Examine what religions teach their members : Love for others, kindness and Charity to others, forgiveness in the face of much cruelty and many other positive social values.

Now examine what Atheism teach their members : Destroy religions especially Christianity, Poke at Islam but beware, insult
holy doctrines, make a mockery of every persons personal spiritual experience, trash every religious internet blog, etc, etc. A radical Atheist, Hond, exposed what hapens in Atheist meetings. Below is just one of the hate-driven meetings he attended
NIGERIAN ATHEISTS –NGA
MINUTES: INAUGURAL MEETING OF STEERING COMMITTEE
Venue: Haribina hotel, Arab-Utako, Abuja.
Present: Mr. Adepoju Adeleke (Abuja), Mr. Andrew Nandip (Plateau state), Mr. Ogunyemi Adekunle (Abuja), Mr. Sambo Gamba (Bauchi state), Professor Tunde Arogundade (Plateau state) and MS. Yemisi Ilesanmi(UK).
Absent: Dr. Ogunlana Adeleke (Kogi state), Mr. Aruson Alaba(Lagos), Mrs Adekunle Ann( plateau state).
Meeting was called to order by Dr. Tunde Arogundade at 11:30 a.m.
Agenda:

It is refreshing to see that Muslims have their dreaded FATWA to deal with the scourge of Low-level Atheists.
Christians realize that they have misunderstood the correct application of "TURN THE OTHER CHEEK." They will not be brow-beaten by thugs that trash their most cherished assets. Christians will take up the sword in defense.

budaatum:



You also claim that I present claims as facts. That's not true. I have presented what has been said about him. Surely, if you have anything to say about him apart from extolling his PhD and his wealth, which are irrelevant, you would present it. But the best you come up with is that some people made he and Hans Zimmerman disappear.

Wiki is actually a very reputable source I'd have you know. Anyone can go write something there, but if others find credible source to dispute what has been written, they would amend it. Does Prof Ouweneel not have disciples who can correct wiki if it is wrong. How about you, or do you have no evidence for what you say about him?

Ok thanks for admitting that you know nothing about the man. This may help you further understand Prof Ouweneels theological outlook.

Professor Ouweneel holds doctorates in biology (Utrecht), philosophy (Amsterdam) and theology (Bloemfontein, RSA).
Professor Ouweneel is a theology and philosophy professor at several colleges and theological faculties. He is the author of over 100 books. He lives in the Netherlands, where he was born.

Here is an extract from Professor Ouweneel’s experience at the Holy Scoan Church Nigeria ;
My daughter went there several times and was healed, and she gave me the message that T.B. Joshua was interested in seeing me, although she had not told him anything about me. So I went there twice, once for five days, and once for ten days, and I hope to go there again.
Professor Ouweneel says,”I was very much impressed by what I saw, heard and experienced there. Not only in seeing the miracles that happened and the sermons that were given, but particularly the spiritual experience in my own soul when I was there. That is something that everyone who doesn't go there in person will miss.

You will not experience personally what it is to be at such a sacred place, where I felt the Lord's presence in a particular way and where He spoke to me on things that He had not spoken on to me previously in such a powerful way.
Professor Ouweneel goes on to explain, “Another thing that people will not experience if they don't go there is what kind of person T.B. Joshua is in himself. I had the opportunity of several in depth conversations with him. People who don't go there will also not notice the spiritual atmosphere of the meetings and the godly impact that he has on people who are there.

I was there with a Dutch group and I spoke with the other guests who were there, all of whom were very touched. To me this was a tremendous experience.”

“His ministry is unusual but if God is pleased in these last days to raise a man in such an outward place in Africa in the way he has done to T.B. Joshua, that is His absolute sovereignty. We should be very careful in our western context to judge that simply because it is different from what we are used to or what fits into our own paradigms and our own frameworks of thought. Rather we should be prepared to have God overthrow our own frameworks of thoughts in the light of Scripture, instead of us judging things because they do not fit out preconceived ideas.”

"I have gone over many of his written sermons and I have heard some of his sermons. English is not his native language, just as it is not mine, and some of the formulations certainly could give rise to misunderstandings. I realize that, but when you learn to understand the whole of his ministry more, you also begin to understand those formulations that at first were strange and you understand much better what he actually was saying. Lots of things that are wrongly attributed to him are based on this type of superficial criticism . So on the whole I am absolutely convinced his written and spoken ministry is sound if you allow for certain weak formulations that indeed may give rise to misunderstanding if they are taken out of context or if your survey is only of a superficial nature.
I pray that God will further bless brother T.B. Joshua, and will open the eyes of his critics.
Willem J. Ouweneel

ScienceWatch:
Excellent, thanks. I wish to say that Atheists are not my priority, far from it.
Low-level Atheists will disagree with your wise saying, "We are all human beings that can, and should, be allowed to hold different beliefs."
They have created a clear distinction for themselves; Atheists are accidental beings, a by-product of the Big Bang and scientific theories.
Whereas Muslims, Christians etc have conclusively proved that they are uniquely CREATED beings with a powerful living spirit.

Examine what religions teach their members : Love for others, kindness and Charity to others, forgiveness in the face of much cruelty and many other positive social values.

Now examine what Atheism teach their members : Destroy religions especially Christianity, Poke at Islam but beware, insult
holy doctrines, make a mockery of every persons personal spiritual experience, trash every religious internet blog, etc, etc. A radical Atheist, Hond, exposed what hapens in Atheist meetings. Below is just one of the hate-driven meetings he attended
NIGERIAN ATHEISTS –NGA
MINUTES: INAUGURAL MEETING OF STEERING COMMITTEE
Venue: Haribina hotel, Arab-Utako, Abuja.
Present: Mr. Adepoju Adeleke (Abuja), Mr. Andrew Nandip (Plateau state), Mr. Ogunyemi Adekunle (Abuja), Mr. Sambo Gamba (Bauchi state), Professor Tunde Arogundade (Plateau state) and MS. Yemisi Ilesanmi(UK).
Absent: Dr. Ogunlana Adeleke (Kogi state), Mr. Aruson Alaba(Lagos), Mrs Adekunle Ann( plateau state).
Meeting was called to order by Dr. Tunde Arogundade at 11:30 a.m.
Agenda:

It is refreshing to see that Muslims have their dreaded FATWA to deal with the scourge of Low-level Atheists.
Christians realize that they have misunderstood the correct application of "TURN THE OTHER CHEEK." They will not be brow-beaten by thugs that trash their most cherished assets. Christians will take up the sword in defense.

you get time to type all these long quotes because of atheists

segunojo866:
you get time to type all these long quotes because of atheists

Are you timing me bro ? Unwary youth will learn to prepare themselves for the grave dangers that comes disguised as fancy philosophies but only result in mental and emotional numbness.

ScienceWatch:
Are you timing me bro ? Unwary youth will learn to prepare themselves for the grave dangers that comes disguised as fancy philosophies but only result in mental and emotional numbness.

budaatum:



If you have any evidence for the existence of Hans Zimmerman or the study in which he mentioned atheisms is a mental disease, please present it. If not, do say so.

Thanks for your patience. I am disappointed that the article on that study seems to have been removed from Google search, it could be because of its shocking global implications.

Because of your keen interest in this study I have taken it upon myself to mail Google, hoping they can help shed some light on this strange affair. I will update you soon.

ScienceWatch:
Thanks for your patience. I am disappointed that the article on that study seems to have been removed from Google search, it could be because of its shocking global implications.

Because of your keen interest in this study I have taken it upon myself to mail Google, hoping they can help shed some light on this strange affair. I will update you soon.

Thank you. Update me when you get a response please. Meanwhile, might you consider not reporting it until we can confirm it actually exists please?

Deicide:
You mean like this once?

ScienceWatch:


Ok Sir, you have lost faith in me because Google is a pain in the neck. Their admin is slow to respond. Or is there another side to this?

You did say they sent you a response.
Post the response from Google please.

ScienceWatch:


About Google admin, they sent me from pillar to post trying to track the removal of publication that ATHEISM is a mental disease.
After a few emails Google asked us to be patient as it is not a normal part of their public service.

The evidence will be ready soon.

Please send me evidence of Google admin sending you from "pillar to post". A copy of the emails they sent you would do.

JackBizzle:


Felixomor shoukd be banned for being too foolish

A ban wouldn't help . Let's raise some money to send him back to school - a proper school this time.

ScienceWatch:
Thanks for your patience. I am disappointed that the article on that study seems to have been removed from Google search, it could be because of its shocking global implications.

Because of your keen interest in this study I have taken it upon myself to mail Google, hoping they can help shed some light on this strange affair. I will update you soon.

Pro troll.

budaatum:

Please send me evidence of Google admin sending you from "pillar to post". A copy of the emails they sent you would do.

No problem BudaAtum. Before I send you my personal emails, it should be in order for me to ask you some proof of identity?

Or it would be more relevant if you post your proof of registration and receipts of payment of monthly fees/tithes to your prophet of modern Atheism Richard Dawkins.

Meanwhile, you should be refreshed after good night's rest. Will you take up this groundbreaking, world changing challenge ?

sonofluc1fer:

Pro troll.

I certainly agree.

budaatum:

Please send me evidence of Google admin sending you from "pillar to post". A copy of the emails they sent you would do.

Lord have mercy BudaAtum. You are certainly deeply troubled by the implications of the obvious conclusions of the "Alleged" findings that Atheism is a mental disease.

I am also deeply troubled by the global impact of of this "Alleged" 22yr clinical study but for totally different reasons than yours.

I have examined the link you sent me about your Satanic prophet of modern Atheism Richard Dawkins. Now just Look at what is happening in Finland because of the prophet of modern Atheism Richard Dawkins governmental influence. Because of Dawkins children are banned from going to church.

But because of the Satanic nature of Atheism, Finland has legalized the socially destructive habits of men who dig into other men's shitbags and bind the stinking knot in holy matrimony.

Will China be able to keep up with the resultant increased demand for Dongles/plastic penis for the women who marry women in Finland?

Is this the destruction that Atheism is fighting for

sonofluc1fer:

Pro troll.

Sir, what can I respectfully say to you in return? MMmmmm, are you familiar with the expression, "Jy is a naaier van die Duivel."

ScienceWatch:
No problem BudaAtum. Before I send you my personal emails, it should be in order for me to ask you some proof of identity?

You do not have to include your personal details. I am willing to accept the body of the emails you received. Delete all personal details in the emails please and post here.

budaatum:

You do not have to include your personal details. I am willing to accept the body of the emails you received. Delete all personal details in the emails please and post here.

That is a good idea. Then I can also make it easy on you. Take out some details that prove that you are a registered Atheist.

It is interesting indeed that you have made many claims on the web without proof.

budaatum:

You do not have to include your personal details. I am willing to accept the body of the emails you received. Delete all personal details in the emails please and post here.

I do forgive your intrusion into my private mail. I am not asking you personally to accept the damning "Allegations" that is flooding the internet.

The fact that Low-Level ATHEISTS have a concise plan to destroy all mankind's sacred doctrines is synonymous with the Alleged "clinical findings that Atheism is a mental disease."

budaatum:

You do not have to include your personal details. I am willing to accept the body of the emails you received. Delete all personal details in the emails please and post here.

I am not tech savvy bro. I dont know how to do that.

sonofluc1fer:

A ban wouldn't help . Let's raise some money to send him back to school - a proper school this time.

Pained much

Please first raise common sense in between your ears, before raising money.

felixomor:


Pained much

True. Your ignorance is painful to watch. The arrogance erodes any form of pity. You are a happy fool. Happy and proud of it. Goodluck.

sonofluc1fer:

True. Your ignorance is painful to watch. The arrogance erodes any form of pity. You are a happy fool. Happy and proud of it. Goodluck.

Felixomor is a proud clown. He wears his foolishness boldly.

His latest foolishness is lying about tithe and defending tithe hustlers.


People like this guy Felix are like a curse to humanity