KingEbukasBlog:


If in 2017 you haven't read various studies which have revealed that man is hardwired to be religious then you should stop using the Internet.

The surfeit evidence is man having too many religions since the beginning of human existence.

https://www.nairaland.com/3771249/introducing-implicit-theism-think-born

Will you stop your fallacies. If man is hard wired to be religious then which religion is he hard wired to believe in?

If you say that man is hard wired to be superstitious then I will agree with you but religious? That remains a lie. Religion isn't natural to man but being superstitious I believe is natural to man.

4kings:

Can you expantiate on this for clarification?
Those born in atheist homes in denmark, what "religious beliefs" do they have emotional ties to?


Wow, address the above first for clarification.


Stop this generalisation, these beliefs are only among the religious, whether they stay in a country with scientific advancement or not and not with those that disassociate themselves with religion.
Can you imagine Richard Dawkins or Dan Barker under those circumstances.



It is therefore not a fact because the hypothesis does not apply to every part of the population.

There are atheists in religion and even though deism rejects religion , there are some deistic beliefs that were already religious . Eg the classical deist believed in after-life and some kind of reward-punishment system that would be used by God to judge man . Some can have personal and transpersonal relationship with God - some people can consider this to be a religious way of life.

Many who are unaffiliated don't identify with any particular religion but this does not mean they won't have even a smattering of beliefs that one can consider as religious .

And studies have revealed that atheists born in atheist homes abandon atheism later in life lending credence to the what I mentioned earlier about man being hard-wired to be religious (atheism used here to refer to the irreligion )

KingEbukasBlog:


There are atheists in religion and even though deism rejects religion , there are some deistic beliefs that were already religious . Eg the classical deist believed in after-life and some kind of reward-punishment system that would be used by God to judge man . Some can have personal and transpersonal relationship with God - some people can consider this to be a religious way of life.

Many who are unaffiliated don't identify with any particular religion but this does not mean they won't have even a smattering of beliefs that one can consider as religious .

And studies have revealed that atheists born in atheist homes abandon atheism later in life lending credence to the what I mentioned earlier about man being hard-wired to be religious (atheism used here to refer to the irreligion )

This guy can twist and lie. Damn

dalaman:


Will you stop your fallacies. If man is hard wired to be religious then which religion is he hard wired to believe in?

If you say that man is hard wired to be superstitious then I will agree with you but religious? That remains a lie. Religion isn't natural to man but being superstitious I believe is natural to man.

I will put 30 billion in your account if Ebuka gives a straight answer.

KingEbukasBlog:


There are atheists in religion and even though deism rejects religion , there are some deistic beliefs that were already religious . Eg the classical deist believed in after-life and some kind of reward-punishment system that would be used by God to judge man . Some can have personal and transpersonal relationship with God - some people can consider this to be a religious way of life.

Many who are unaffiliated don't identify with any particular religion but this does not mean they won't have even a smattering of beliefs that one can consider as religious .

I don't know why you fail to see that you are still describing the religious.
It's because of you i don't like labels or being called a deist again ever since you started these nonsense last year, those that believe in what you mentioned, don't you think the belief contradicts the very definition of deism and the proper application of reason to life which deism is supposed hold dear?
The unaffiliated ones, aren't they similar to Deepak Chopra?
My friend, those that you cherry picked are religious, not true deists, not true atheist.

I think i have to have a proper discussion with any confused one in this category that still calls him/herself a deist/atheist if they're in nairaland.

And studies have revealed that atheists born in atheist homes abandon atheism later in life lending credence to the what I mentioned earlier about man being hard-wired to be religious (atheism used here to refer to the irreligion )

This is interesting, can you provide a link to the paper for scrutinization?

JackBizzle:



I will put 30 billion in your account if Ebuka gives a straight answer.

He won't. He prefers running around chasing his long tail.

dalaman:


He won't. He prefers running around chasing his long tail.

KingEbuka runs away nowadays and I prefer that to his lies.

dalaman:

. If man is hard wired to be religious then which religion is he hard wired to believe in?

If you say that man is hard wired to be superstitious then I will agree with you but religious? That remains a lie. Religion isn't natural to man but being superstitious I believe is natural to man.

Being religious doesn't mean wired to organized religion . It's a self belief and quest for God

Joagbaje:


Being religious doesn't mean wired to organized religion . It's a self belief and quest for God

Men are naturally wired to be superstitious and not to be religious.

butterflyl1on:


Vacuums are meant to be filled. Any absence of one thing means something else has to replace it. This thread is not about any of Christianity or Hinduism or Taoism etc getting credence (stop trying to shift the goalpost as always)

It's simply a credible empirically submitted report about the massive decline of atheism worldwide. If people are dumping it this quickly it simply shows that :

1. People naturally do not want to be associated with stupid things for long

2. People are prone to change and often times would prefer better to worse

3. Self examination forces change. In this case, self examination exposes an emptiness in atheism and since everyone feels a need for love (which atheism often denies) they would gravitate towards the light and away from the cold darkness.

4. Atheism is a transit point and is extremely temporal.

Mmmm, I admire your application of experiential reasoning to the problem of the massive decline of atheism worldwide.
butterflyl1on, your 4th explosive observation that, "Atheism is a transit point and is extremely temporal" got me thinking along the same lines.

Atheism is as temporal and brief as sex. But Atheists greed makes them fabricate ways to prolong the experience to impress the unwary.

Atheism is as fleeting as Pornography, it has no substance, only a humiliating deluded fabrication of a distant reality that is intelligently rationalized to hook the mentally unstable.

dalaman:


Men are naturally wired to be superstitious and not to be religious.

Low-level Atheists superstitions are founded on faulty scientific and Philosophic observations of life. There is a common but pardonable notion among Low-level Atheists in the West that only primitive people should pay attention to religion, spirits and dreams and that scientific minds have nothing to learn from religion and deep sleep.

The superficiality of this view birthed many of the Low-level Atheists beliefs.

A further handicap for the Low-Level Atheist as well as for the scientists lay not only in their insufficient data but also in their own imperfect instrument which is the tool with which an Atheist/Scientist philosopher/truth seeker must work is his mind.

The Low-Level Atheist and scientist mistakenly believes that he can take his specialized knowledge of one field of study an apply it to the mysteries of life, God, religion, the beginning of life, death etc.

Atheism has failed to come up with a refreshing alternative to nation empowering religions.

dalaman:


Will you stop your fallacies. If man is hard wired to be religious then which religion is he hard wired to believe in?

If you say that man is hard wired to be superstitious then I will agree with you but religious? That remains a lie. Religion isn't natural to man but being superstitious I believe is natural to man.

It is common knowledge that Low-level Atheists are very superstitious. They worship the superstitions of flawed Philosophy and science about creation, God, the non-existence of Jesus, demons, miracles, dreams etc.

That is why you will agree here that Low-level Atheist men are hard wired to be superstitious.

Low-Level Atheists claim that religion is based on superstition, then at the same time agree that man was hard wired to be superstitious.
Then makes a hard U-Turn and says that you wont accept that man was hard wired to be religious.

So if man was hard wired to be superstitious and religion is based on superstition, therefore low-level Atheists are religious.

KingEbukasBlog:


According to Pew Research atheists are in a massive decline while Religion is growing massively , theistic religions of course .

That is correct Sir. Atheism is declining and even dying after true Philosophers agreed that Atheism and scientists can never be trusted to produce a correct understanding of Life, death, religion, spirit, morality and ethics and this is evidenced in the degradation of human behavior, social ills, crime, the collapse of the cohesion of community etc.

Experiential evidence points to the dark motives that Low-Level Atheists and science biased opinions were aimed at reducing religions to mere superstition in order to trap the masses into believing that science and Atheism holds all the answers.

4kings:

I don't know why you fail to see that you are still describing the religious.
It's because of you i don't like labels or being called a deist again ever since you started these nonsense last year, those that believe in what you mentioned, don't you think the belief contradicts the very definition of deism and the proper application of reason to life which deism is supposed hold dear?
The unaffiliated ones, aren't they similar to Deepak Chopra?
My friend, those that you cherry picked are religious, not true deists, not true atheist.

I think i have to have a proper discussion with any confused one in this category that still calls him/herself a deist/atheist if they're in nairaland.


This is interesting, can you provide a link to the paper for scrutinization?

Are you denying that the classical deists of the early centuries BC never had a view of the after-life ? Or are you saying there are no religious atheists ? Are you saying that the unaffiliated cannot have beliefs that are considered religious ? What are you saying my nigga ? You sound confused bro

butterflyl1on:


Vacuums are meant to be filled. Any absence of one thing means something else has to replace it. This thread is not about any of Christianity or Hinduism or Taoism etc getting credence (stop trying to shift the goalpost as always)

It's simply a credible empirically submitted report about the massive decline of atheism worldwide. If people are dumping it this quickly it simply shows that :

1. People naturally do not want to be associated with stupid things for long

2. People are prone to change and often times would prefer better to worse

3. Self examination forces change. In this case, self examination exposes an emptiness in atheism and since everyone feels a need for love (which atheism often denies) they would gravitate towards the light and away from the cold darkness.

4. Atheism is a transit point do is extremely temporal.

How did I miss this glorious nonsense?


So wait.....


1. so you are just saying that atheism is stupid? That is not an argument that is an ad-hominem. And studies show that atheism has a positive correlation with intelligence.

2. Sometimes true and sometimes false. People dont always change for good, ergo, electing Donald Trump

3. False, more people convert to atheism (or deism or no religion) from the internet and university than other religion. This is true in developed countries

4. How many people have you seen convert from atheism to religion? Even here on nairaland, we see religious people leaving in droves to atheism but hardly the other way around.


The simple fact that you are too biased to see is that religion (islam and xtianity) is only growing as a result of high number of births and not conversions.

KingEbukasBlog:


Are you denying that the classical deists of the early centuries BC never had a view of the after-life ? Or are you saying there are no religious atheists ? Are you saying that the unaffiliated cannot have beliefs that are considered religious ? What are you saying my nigga ? You sound confused bro

You acknowledge that the priests and self acclaimed Christians that carried out the crusades, witch huntings, drinking dettol(lol) and so on, are not true Christians because they are not inline with the tenets of Christianity right?

So on what basis is the tenet of deism or atheism in conformity with these guys beliefs?
The unaffiliated like i said could be peeps like Chopra so let's leave them outta this since we don't have a clear definition.

JackBizzle:


The simple fact that you are too biased to see is that religion (islam and xtianity) is only growing as a result of high number of births and not conversions.

On point, that's why the stats will be faulty in reality cos of science...

4kings:

You acknowledge that the priests and self acclaimed Christians that carried out the crusades, witch huntings, drinking dettol(lol) and so on, are not true Christians because they are not inline with the tenets of Christianity right?

So on what basis is the tenet of deism or atheism in conformity with these guys beliefs?
The unaffiliated like i said could be peeps like Chopra so let's leave them outta this.

I think you misconstrued my point my man . Revealed theology the foundation of theistic religions claim that their beliefs were revealed to them by a deity . The deists repudiate this claim because they believe God does not intervene in human affairs or the world therefore cannot make such revelations thus rejection religion . Now remember , the deists make deductions through logic and reason and because of this through reason , they created the concept of after-life and the reward-punishment system . Why? Perhaps , it makes sense that since God ingrained morality in man then man must be rewarded or punished for his actions . Remember , its the after-life , perhaps , another dimension , not the world which God gets involved in . This ideology was not gotten by revelation but by pure reason .

Atheism rejects deification - this is correct definition . I explained why here of course it is open for scrutiny and refutation- which no one has done yet after close to 15k views . The problem is : you conflate materialism , naturalism , realism as atheism . There are atheists who not materialists , naturalists etc . And that's why you are struggling to understand that atheists can be religious .

An atheist defines atheism as the non-belief in God/gods , if you try to fit this definition into what humans have deified and what philosophical and theological positions views as God , you'd surely run into problems . Eg A pantheist sees the universe as God . The orthodox definition of atheism which is the non-belief in the universe . Does this make any sense ? But use my definition which is the rejection of deification of an entity and you'd see how it is congruous with the position of an atheist : The atheist does not the see the universe as a deity . With this understanding of what has been explained , atheists can be part of various religions , non theistic and theistic .

For the unaffiliated , this is pretty simple . I can belong to no religion in particular but have views which can be considered religious .Eg reincarnation , after-life . Being unaffliated means you don't have any religion you belong to in particular OR you consider you religion as a lifestyle like the Taoists ,Confucians and Christians do

JackBizzle:





[s]How did I miss this glorious nonsense?


So wait.....[/s]


1. so you are just saying that atheism is stupid? [s]That is not an argument that is an ad-hominem. And studies show that atheism has a positive correlation with intelligence.

2. Sometimes true and sometimes false. People dont always change for good, ergo, electing Donald Trump

3. False, more people convert to atheism (or deism or no religion) from the internet and university than other religion. This is true in developed countries

4. How many people have you seen convert from atheism to religion? Even here on nairaland, we see religious people leaving in droves to atheism but hardly the other way around[/s].


The simple fact that you are too biased to see is that religion (islam and xtianity) is only growing as a result of high number of births and not conversions.

Hell yeah! Atheism is STUPID and is obviously what made you dumbbizzle .

The only religion that is growing based on high number of births is ISLAM and that is based on high number of wives per male Muslim. Get your facts right and stop spreading your dumboism around.

The rest of your comment needs no response because as always they lack merit. However regarding your number 4 comment I suppose nairaland with her less than 2 million population of which a lot of the monikers are actually known as 1 person owning an average of 2 monikers to their name which would mean that the actual number of nairalanders would be less than 1 million if a strict 1 person, 1 moniker policy is applied yet you say religious people are leaving in droves

By the time 1 religious person is leaving religion on nairaland then 50,000 to 100,000 is being added to religion via conversion at the same time elsewhere.

The figures for atheism are too low to even loose sleep over. you guys are like a fart in a hurricane.

KingEbukasBlog:


I think you misconstrued my point my man . Revealed theology the foundation of theistic religions claim that their beliefs were revealed to them by a deity . The deists repudiate this claim because they believe God does not intervene in human affairs or the world therefore cannot make such revelations thus rejection religion . Now remember , the deists make deductions through logic and reason and because of this through reason , they created the concept of after-life and the reward-punishment system . Why? Perhaps , it makes sense that since God ingrained morality in man then man must be rewarded or punished for his actions . Remember , its the after-life , perhaps , another dimension , not the world which God gets involved in . This ideology was not gotten by revelation but by pure reason .

Ebuka is this a joke...
If God's attribute is meant to be unknown cos of noninterference then any attribute given to it is but a supposition and is similar to what the religious do.
Going by your logic then, one(that claims he/she is a deist) can assert that our actions have all been predestined.

Atheism rejects deification - this is correct definition . I explained why here of course it is open for scrutiny and refutation- which no one has done yet after close to 15k views . The problem is : you conflate materialism , naturalism , realism as atheism . There are atheists who not materialists , naturalists etc . And that's why you are struggling to understand that atheists can be religious .

Wow, what's the difference with what you explained and someone who is religious in a particular doctrine but rejects deification of other religions.
Answer is None, why because they're both religious.

When an atheist defines atheism as the non-belief in God/gods , if you try to fit this definition into what humans have deified and what philosophical and theological positions views as God , you'd surely run into problems . Eg A pantheist sees the universe as God . Now you the orthodox definition of atheism which is the non-belief in the universe .

Clear definition is your problem here.

Now , does this make any sense ? But use my definition which is the rejection of deification of an entity and you'd see how it is congruous with the position of an atheist : The atheist does not the see the universe as a deity . With this understanding of what has been explained , atheists can be part of various religions , non theistic and theistic .

Now this is why an established definition is your problem.
JackBizzle(no offence) probably regard his lady as god in bed and deifies her for as long their rendezvous last.
Now on a serious note, god here is applied like the pantheist apply them and deification by definition is not a problem here. So there you go...

For the unaffiliated , this is pretty simple . I can belong to no religion in particular but have views which can be considered religious .Eg reincarnation , after-life . Being unaffliated means you don't have any religion you belong to in particular OR you consider you religion as a lifestyle like the Taoists ,Confucians and Christians do

How did you put Christians up there? was that a typo? lol
Anyways, Confucius believe in forces (ying and yang) that controls the universe just like those who believe in karma and the pantheist, now this is very incompatible with the mainstream materialist atheists.
This sounds religious to me, the believe in a supernatural force (God or no God), that's why i also consider Buddha religious .
This is why i said to leave them outta this cos of lack of established definition.

4kings:

Ebuka is this a joke...
If God's attribute is meant to be unknown cos of noninterference then any attribute given to it is but a supposition and is similar to what the religious do.
Going by your logic then, one(that claims he/she is a deist) can assert that our actions have all been predestined.


Wow, what's the difference with what you explained and someone who is religious in a particular doctrine but rejects deification of other religions.
Answer is None, why because they're both religious.


Clear definition is your problem here.


Now this is why an established definition is your problem.
JackBizzle(no offence) probably regard his lady as god in bed and deifies her for as long their rendezvous last.
Now on a serious note, god here is applied like the pantheist apply them and deification by definition is not a problem here. So there you go...


How did you put Christians up there? was that a typo? lol
Anyways, Confucius believe in forces (ying and yang) that controls the universe just like those who believe in karma and the pantheist, now this is very incompatible with the mainstream materialist atheists.
This sounds religious to me, the believe in a supernatural force (God or no God), that's why i also consider Buddha religious .
This is why i said to leave them outta this cos of lack of established definition.

Now , I really don't know where this argument is heading to ? Are you denying that the classical deists were never deists because of what they believed in ? Are you denying that there are religious atheists ?

And by the way , a major tenet of Confucianism is the veneration and worship of ancestral spirits . Disembodied minds like spirits are incongruous with materialism

butterflyl1on:


Hell yeah! Atheism is STUPID and is obviously what made you dumbbizzle .

The only religion that is growing based on high number of births is ISLAM and that is based on high number of wives per male Muslim. Get your facts right and stop spreading your dumboism around.

The rest of your comment needs no response because as always they lack merit. However regarding your number 4 comment I suppose nairaland with her less than 2 million population of which a lot of the monikers are actually known as 1 person owning an average of 2 monikers to their name which would mean that the actual number of nairalanders would be less than 1 million if a strict 1 person, 1 moniker policy is applied yet you say religious people are leaving in droves

By the time 1 religious person is leaving religion on nairaland then 50,000 to 100,000 is being added to religion via conversion at the same time elsewhere.

The figures for atheism are too low to even loose sleep over. you guys are like a fart in a hurricane.

Atheism is stupid abi?

I'll leave you to your delusion.

KingEbukasBlog:


Now , I really don't know where this argument is heading to ? Are you denying that the classical deists were never deists because of what they believed in ?

Hmm, let me put it this way: Are you denying that the priests were never Christians(or inspired by God like they said) because of what they did ?
Your explanation to this is your answer.

Are you denying that there are religious atheists ?

Just like they're Christians who kill for Jesus sake.

And by the way , a major tenet of Confucianism is the veneration and worship of ancestral spirits . Disembodied minds like spirits are incongruous with materialism

Huh? how does this affect my point, or are you just letting me know?

@4kings

Atheism is the opposite of Theism not Religion . Religion is not theism neither is it atheism . Religion can involve atheists , theists , agnostics etc .

KingEbukasBlog:
@4kings

Atheism is the opposite of Theism not Religion . Religion is not theism neither is it atheism . Religion can involve atheists , theists , agnostics etc .

Very true. But christianity and atheism are parallel to each other. One cannot be an atheist and a christian

JackBizzle:



Very true. But christianity and atheism are parallel to each other. One cannot be an atheist and a christian

A Christian is simply a follower of Christ . This has been interpreted in various forms - it may or may not incorporate the view that Christ is divine or a deity . Arianism , which is in fact a Christian doctrine though considered heretical , that Christ is divine but not a deity - this view does not mean an Arian isn't a Christian .

Atheism is the rejection of deification of an entity and with this definition an atheist can reject the deification of Christ but still follow his moral teachings and/or his way of life that does not involve God like his life of austerity , his life of pacifism or deprecation for violence etc . There are already atheist Christians - its a thing whether you like it or not .

KingEbukasBlog:


A Christian is simply a follower of Christ . This has been interpreted in various forms - it may or may not incorporate the view that Christ is divine or a deity . Arianism , which is in fact a Christian doctrine though considered heretical , that Christ is divine but not a deity - this view does not mean an Arian isn't a Christian .

Atheism is the rejection of deification of an entity and with this definition an atheist can reject the deification of Christ but still follow his moral teachings and/or his way of life that does not involve God like his life of austerity , his life of pacifism or deprecation for violence etc . There are already atheist Christians - its a thing whether you like it or not .

Christianity is more than following christ.

This is similar to how muslims lie that "muslim" simply means "one who submits to the will of God"


A basic dictionary definition does not do justice to a multifaceted thing like religion.


Keep up the lies sha. You are doing great.

KingEbukasBlog:
@4kings
Atheism is the opposite of Theism not Religion . Religion is not theism neither is it atheism . Religion can involve atheists , theists , agnostics etc .

Well religion is a "belief system" so i get your point.
Which makes the "belief system" and the definition of "atheists"(as you classified) subjective.

KingEbukasBlog:

A Christian is simply a follower of Christ . This has been interpreted in various forms - it may or may not incorporate the view that Christ is divine or a deity . Arianism , which is in fact a Christian doctrine though considered heretical , that Christ is divine but not a deity - this view does not mean an Arian isn't a Christian .

Just like a muslim is simply the follower of Mohammed right?

Atheism is the rejection of deification of an entity and with this definition an atheist can reject the deification of Christ but still follow his moral teachings and/or his way of life that does not involve God like his life of austerity , his life of pacifism or deprecation for violence etc . There are already atheist Christians - its a thing whether you like it or not .

Stop parading this your "rejection of deification", you're also an atheist for not deifying Zeus. So you're also an atheist christian lol.
This is why a definition has to be established, like Johnydonn22 pointed out.

4kings:


Just like a muslim is simply the follower of Mohammed right?

Is Islam based on life of Moh'?

Stop parading this your "rejection of deification", you're also an atheist for not deifying Zeus. So you're also an atheist christian lol.
This is why a definition has to be established, like Johnydonn22 pointed out.

This does not make any sense .

I'm a theist because I deify something - the First Cause . And I reject the deification of other entities . I become an atheist when I reject any sort of deification of any entity

Seriously man , if you have no serious rebuttal quit and you need to stop wasting my time .

KingEbukasBlog:


Is Islam based on life of Moh'?

Just as much as christians is based on the life of jesus.

This does not make any sense .

I'm a theist because I deify something - the First Cause . And I reject the deification of other entities . I become an atheist when I reject any sort of deification of any entity

Seriously man , if you have no serious rebuttal quit and you need to stop wasting my time .

I deify my babe(an entity) in bed, does that make me a theist?

4kings:

Just as much as christians is based on the life of jesus.

Islam is not based on the life of Muhammed

I deify my babe(an entity) in bed, does that make me a theist?

Yes .

There have been human deities - ancient emperors of China , Japan ; ancient Pharaohs of Egypt ; Julius Caeser ; Mary the mother of Jesus ; Jesus Christ Himself , there are so many my brother .

If you deify anything you are a theist , if you don't deify anything you are an atheist . Its pretty simple

@4kings

You are smart enough to see how deficient the current definition of atheism is .


Non-belief in God/gods

Replace 'God/god' with entities that have been deified .


Non-belief in universe(universe deified by pantheist as God )
Non-belief in Sun (The Sun deified by pagans )
Non-belief in the Moon (The Moon deified by pagans)
Non-belief in Julius Caeser (Caeser was deified after his death)

etc

How does this make any sense ? You reason am na