mabell:


@poster,
mr criticism, how many people have you healed,
how many have you given homes,
how many families have you reconciled back together,
how many relief materials have you sent outside this country
or better still how many people have you sponsored their education
maybe you should not open your mouth to speak anywhere using
someone else's assumption!!!

Do you see what your pastor's association with this charlatan has led you into now?

jpworld:


Don't be surprise  most of this positive reply about TB Joshua, Alias Man of Dog, is been posted by his Media Officer.

Not only his Media officers but also his partners in crime.

wetu:
@Joagbe

I'm not saying I'm not interested in football. I'm saying God isn't interested in football. A prophet prophesying football results is prophesying in another spirit not the Holy Spirit, If I blasphemy then let it be so.

God on the other hand will warn His people of the famine because it affects the Church. Football results do not affect the true Church that is separate from the world.

Daniel's prophecies were prophecies about the future of the world those cannot be compared with a divinator saying: "I see a goal, it's a header" ,"The home team will score first, then they must not try to score again"

I agree. We must not physically attack TBJ. We must not call him or e-mail him with threats. We must not go on Radio and attack his ministry. But when people are talking about him like on a forum like this, we can talk about him. And if we suspect he is a false teacher, it's not a problem.

The scripture commends those who try false teachers, obviously that means those who try true teachers will not be judged because they did what was required of them (Revelation 2:2,2:20). Jesus commended those who tried false teachers and condemned those who did not try false teachers but why didn't he condemn those who tried true teachers?


You can post as many scriptures as you like but the fact is that false teachers will still come in the name of Jesus:
[color=#99000]
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

[/color]

Good analysis but Jo has gone too far to discern the lie. He is fully embedded in error. May the Lord deliver him.

wetu:
Joagbe: We should be careful of judgementalism
I say, we should be careful of being turned from the truth. Will you still defend this man when he releases this witchcraft:

COMING SOON…WRISTBAND WITH AUDIO DEVICE
The man of God raised people’s spirits when he talked about the new Anointing Wristband and its audio devices that will caution wearers about their behaviour and movements. According to him, the wristband is devised to remind you about your prayers, to ask you to check your tyres or to stop because of armed robbers.

http://tbjfansuk./2011/03/17/god-shows-himself-strong-as-a-disgusting-neckback-ulcerd-healed-after-tb-joshua-prayer/

God have mercy!

wetu:


Joagbe: "but you didnt quote jesus rather you quoted Paul"
Joagbe, you are not God's word like Pastor Chris told you, Jesus is the Word of God. When I quote the Word of God, I can say "Jesus wants us to" or "Jesus expects us to" as long as I don't say "Jesus said" that will confuse people but in actual fact I can also say it to those who are followers of Jesus and not bible scholars and followers of men.

This is why some Christians are rebellious towards Jesus, they do not understand that He is the Word of God. Therefore they study the Bible to try justify their disobedience:

when the Word says: "do not labour to be rich", they have a scripture to fight it.
When the Word says: "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world", they find prophets to prophesy to them things of the world and they love to have it so.

Isa 30:1 Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin:
Isa 30:2 That walk to go down into Egypt, and have not asked at my mouth; to strengthen themselves in the strength of Pharaoh, and to trust in the shadow of Egypt!
Isa 30:3 Therefore shall the strength of Pharaoh be your shame, and the trust in the shadow of Egypt your confusion.

Succinctly said.

mabell:


@Joagbaje,
ride on
as it is, the truth must be told whether people agree or not
people have gotten too used and comfortable to being judgemental about pastors all in the name of shielding and saving people and revealing men of God
It's a big shame
how i wish this same energy they use can be diverted elsewhere or better still converting men to christ

I also wish you can defend Jesus the way you defend this charlatan and your pastor.

wetu:


You are judging! This makes you guilty of two sins, judging and hypocrisy because you say "do not judge" yet you judge those who judge. It is impossible for a Christian not to judge, that's why the Lord said:

Joh 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Well said.

nuclearboy:


Oga Jo is reloaded arrogantly again. WE HAVE TO MAKE THIS PERSONAL rather than doctrinal and of course you fear that!!

You say it takes the Holy Ghost for a man to confess Jesus openly! So tell us - what spirit makes demons tremble and know Jesus is Lord? You are confessing and living a dirty life. They "know" (that is greater than "talk" which you may not mean) and they also live the same life. Your fruit and theirs is cheating, lying, defrauding etc. The Devil is here to steal, kill and destroy. That describes both you and demons perfectly. So what is the difference?

You "judge" your pastor chris by appearance because he says the right things and behaves the right ways in front of the world yet the truth is that it is his fruit that God and indeed, serious Christians look at and mehn, his fruit wowo pass terrible - even demons are more manageable. Yet you say "wetu" who is telling you the truth is judging by appearances while you are looking at fine hair and face and smooth gist!

The Apostle said clearly "My works show my faith. Show us your faith without your works". Where are your pastors works? The frauds, fyneguy, thuggery, etc. Which supposes that we have to assess and judge and as "wetu" already pointed out, those who tested the spirits were commended by Jesus.

PS: You do NOT know the Bible - what you know is how to use it to sell your market. That in itself proves your paucity of truth and knowledge.

What else can I say?

Joagbaje:


Which one be dis ? what has tb joshua matter got to do with pastor chris? Can't you just stay on the bible? If you are really sure of what you're saying . All these daaru system don't sound mature.

Show me your associate and I will tell you who you really are.

nuclearboy:
That is YOUR fear! Because your life proves the opposite of what you claim. And that is why I am on it!

The Bible is what "wetu" used to argue above and that you twisted in your own argument also. So let us come to brass tacks!

Which one is showing RIGHT fruit?

Is it the "gister" with boasts and a lying tongue who believes signs are all that matters? That is your side and Jesus canceled you 2,000+ years back when He said "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. "

Or is it the one who is dividing truth rightly and saying it is NOT gist or boasts etc? TB Joshua and your man are in cahorts so must be bunched together - I thought TBJ even claimed to be a "spiritual" papa to pastor chris Asewo sonu, Jaguda nwa!

wetu:
OK, Joagbaje I will admit that you know the Bible better than me. Now, tell me, is this biblical or is it witchcraft or you rather not judge?


By the way, I'm not Jesus. Sorry if I gave you that impression.

And perhaps you can also tell me why we cannot judge, but we can judge those who judge. And then tell me, If I judge and you judge me because I judge can someone else judge you because you judged me that I judged?

Good question.

nuclearboy:


First, the issue of blackmail - NO, IT IS NOT BLACKMAIL. The Bible says we know a tree by its fruits - I didn't say that. The Bible did! So I call upon your fruit to JUDGE- it will justify or to condemn you as saying the truth. That is the common ground - that our fruit shows who we really are.

What is weak and manipulative is trying to make things look like people are targeting you personally or trying to make issues impersonal - The CHRISTIAN walk is personal as you know and Jesus Himself made it so. Your attempts to make it impersonal are what is manipulative and childish. FRUIT shows WHO WE ARE!

The Bible's Words are to be rightly divided as "wetu" did. Yes, a man can call Jesus Lord ("Jesus I know, Paul I know but who are you" also did, didn't he?) but what then did Jesus mean when He said He would say He NEVER knew them and that they were workers of iniquity to men who supposedly did great things in His Name? Are you saying those men would do great things in His Name without saying "Jesus is Lord"? Or are you saying Jesus was lying? Again, you are long on boasts but short on truth if you believe al that is necessary is "confession". Actually, the Biblical understanding of "confession" is true ACCEPTANCE that lives what it says.

You personally, I do not know and so it was a figure of speech when I say you live a dirty life. What I meant is simple - your claims are directly contradicted by your "FRUIT" (I love that word). Would you again like me to list some things CEC is known for in society? Or things that you personally have done here? That is your fruit, not the words you mouth! As they say - TALK IS CHEAP!

You judge by "doctrine"? Okay, judge Robert Liardon and Odulele by doctrine. Now consider their their homosexuality and perversion - what does that say about them? What does it say about their doctrine now when their life is examined? Lies ehn? And what does it say about you but that you are affected by fine speeches even when coming from white-washed Sepulchers. I do not judge a man by his words (doctrine) but by his life and fruit. That is God's standard. It may seem harsh to you but it is God's Standard and we see it from Genesis through Revelation.

If love believes all things as you said, you should believe me that pastor chris is a liar since his fruit is lies.

Why do you put "even if there is an element of truth" in fyneguy? Obviously, even you know he doesn't add up. 419 is 419, leave the stories and that is normal fruit of your idol, pastor chris. Basically, what we say is it is a scam not the truth of his life.

You, a "Pastor", a supposed MOG, are asking me to name a perfect church?   Wonderful?  Answer - The church of God is those He called out.

It is not a named congregation and you not knowing that only shows how shallow your theology is. Ecclesia - the called out ones - THAT is the church. And I NEVER mentioned Deeper life as a perfect church. That is a lie and another fruit of pastor chris. But you can prove me wrong and show where I said it - my posts are there. What I said was totally different. Why are you CEC so eager to lie? Why is it so easy for you to tell lies and make yourselves out as victims?

Stop making noise about energy and its uses - what Gospel are you preaching? This money, health, control, "I am God" nonsense? Is that the Gospel of Christ?

The Apostles lived a life that drew men to them. They showed love, care, the power of God and men saw their light and came to it. Which is what Jesus requested - be a light and the power of God WILL confirm you in signs and wonders AS HE WILLS, not as you decide or claim!

You sell a brand - You prey on fear of poverty (pay your tithes and believe and you'll be rich). You prey on the helpless needy (come to the healing school and we'll heal you but you will "show" your faith by dropping cash). You prey on desperation (just bring more and more and of course, if nothing happens, it is their fault, NOT pastor chris). You have only built an army of the blind led by the blind.

But now, the end is near!

Wow! Where is this guy? I surely missed him.

Enigma:


+n

Wunderbar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

nuclearboy:
^^ Okay.

Truth is the Gospel draws people to Christ because Christ is The Gospel.  Even Wealth, Health and special Information (the 9 gifts of the spirit) are deployed only for purposes of the Gospel, not to feel good.

Anything that draws people outside of Christ is therefore NOT the Gospel.

Prophets selling amulets that warn you of danger and predict whether Ronaldo will score with his leg or his head are doing things outside of the Gospel and are serving falsity.

We are supposed to serve the purposes of the Gospel not the purposes of pastors supposedly propagating "it"

Word.

wetu:


It's on their fans' website:
http://tbjfansuk./2011/03/17/god-shows-himself-strong-as-a-disgusting-neckback-ulcerd-healed-after-tb-joshua-prayer/
read it quickly, they have a habit of taking things off when they realise they are being scrutinised.


We can pray for them, assuming that they are God's servants but what if they are not?

2Th 2:9  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.


I believe it is our responsibility to tell people the truth. Otherwise people will waste money travelling to Nigeria, borrowing money that they cannot/do not intend to repay and still come back with no healing.

I believe that we can criticise pastors (How else will they see their mistakes?) without condemning them. What qualifies as condemnation? I think the highest form of condemnation is to say that a person is of the devil or that they are going to hell. I will not say that about any minister but where their doctrine is off, I will say it. I have personally learned a lot from criticism directed at pastors and I have ideas what and what not to do if I became one, current pastors could also learn if it wasn't for their pride.

At the end of the day, whether we discuss false teachers or not, it must be a matter of personal belief. Those who think that false teachers must not be named or their teachings should not be questioned, should refrain from the discussion instead of judging those who judge, that is hypocrisy. Just take part if you want to defend their teachings and practices or if you want to support those who are against them.

If your conscience will not allow you to judge, steer clear of those topics that require judgement:

Rom 14:22  Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23  And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

I thank God for your life.

Joagbaje:


And what if they are? What is your standard of judgement.


The Antichrist and his false prophet will do lying wonders. But remember You know the spirit of error by their fruit which is in what they profess. The Antichrist will not acknowledge Jesus as lord. He will come in his own name. That's what Jesus said.

John 5:43
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
 So the bible  is clear on how to judge these things.  We should not go outside the Word in the name of helping God.



healings do take place there . I can show you some video clips of live miracles.But i still they can't claim to heal every case.



I agree pastors are not infallible . But criticising a member of the body of christ in an open forum is a sin to christ and his body. We can't wash our dirty linens openly in the face of unbelievers. Some of them even come to mock us saying "see Christians o" " they call themselves children of God" God hates that .

1corinthians 6:1-7
Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. 5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. 7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another.

This shows how God see such thing. There are biblical ways to correct thing. Jesus was clear. "He said if a brother offends. . . go to him alone" and the bible says we should correct in love. Paul corrected Peter face to face. He didn't have to label him a false minister at The Hill of Mars.

This open embarrasmet to the body of christ is merely a show "i better pass you" becasue The people been criticised are not on Nairaland to even know the criticisim. So what is our benefit.

Even if someone is wrong, so long as God is using him , we ought to be careful of how we handle them.Paul had an experience with certain people who were not genuine in their preaching of the gospel. But what was Pauls response. He said leave them , let the gospel be preached anyhow.

Philipians 1:15
Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: 16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: 17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

A real minister is more concerned about touching the world for christ than busy himself with what another man is doing .

You may say somebody is not a minister , but supposing you are wrong. Even if you say Lord I'm sorry later , what about some people you might have polluted un intentionally what damage to their soul. That is why everyone should focus on his work in God. I would rather send letter or mail or through UPS about my concern to a church or pastor whom I perceive to be in error than to mount public forum and pointing fingers at ministers. If they read my letter and respond fine. If they reason with my concerns fine. but if they read it and throw it to dustbin. The letter will be a witness against them on judgement day.

It all depends on which Jesus he calls upon. Someone said you call your pastor Christ, is that true?

Resources.

http://op.50megs.com/ditc/Joshua2.htm

uchkochi:
All u see on Emmanuel T.v(Tb Joshua station) is organized.Somebody i know went there and said there is more death in the church than healing.He also said u are not allowed to video the service with your phone otherwise it will be destroyed.

Tb Joshua is a prophet no doubt but an Evil prophet from the devil.A man that pastors with fear is of the devil.All the evil prophecies are organized from hell so as to make people believe him but guess what his time is up and Heaven is exposing him faster than can be imagined in Jesus Name. A true man of God stands in the gap.Tb Joshua is not from God.Beware ask members of his church they are all bewitched,to confirm why not go there yourself,don't mind what u see on TV its organized.Beware let the Holy spirit guide you and not 'emmanuel Television'.Remain blessed.

You that is original man of God, How many homeless people have you fed, how many orphans have you given bread to eat...Idiot