viaro:



What amazes me is this: do RCCG members on Nairaland know anything about these matters? What would any believer say when his/her pastor/MOG is teaching that tithing is a prerequisite to heaven {“You do not pay your tithe, you do not go to Heaven”}?!?

Dude, now you see why we held some of those strong opinions about these folks in those "tithe" threads. The sad fact of Christianity these days is that one has to know the WORD before going in or they'll use every 419 tactic in the book to steal one's hard earned dollar.

God will certainly expose more and more of them for all to see (One day, wind go blow and expose chicken yansh )

Phew! I sigh in Spanish and weep in the Tongues of Angels. . .

ogajim:

Dude, now you see why we held some of those strong opinions about these folks in those "tithe" threads. The sad fact of Christianity these days is that one has to know the WORD before going in or they'll use every 419 tactic in the book to steal one's hard earned dollar.

God will certainly expose more and more of them for all to see (One day, wind go blow and expose chicken yansh )

Very much agreed, ogajim (and, in passing, we all look through a glass darkly!). I have to say though that I am very pleased with viaro's work on this thread. I had actually been looking for that clause of RCCG fundamental belief on tithes/tithing and was initially stumped to find that it was no longer on their main/central website, So it was nice to see that it had been discovered on their other sites. Do you notice that while the main/central site removes the clause on tithes/tithing, it is basically identical in other respects with the other sites? As I said before, the clause was on the main site for years ---- I am sure its removal is in part due to the kind of challenge being posed to the nonsensical doctrine by the kind of debates we have here.

I tell a story: earlier on this decade, the RCCG GO's annual prophecies were posted on the website; there followed several debates (I believe some here on nairaland --- but also on the then RCCG website forum) where the prophecies were exposed to serious ridicule; the following year, the annual prophecies posted were bland, generic and lacking specificity; I think the prophecies have been following that bland pattern (that anyone can do) since!

all dis so call redeem churchs,they are wickedly evil,don't worry 4 now, the church will be like a story of one time star sisco.one day people will open their eyes to see.have u seen the fake white house built for the so call man of god/evil?@ the camp?how many room will he sleep @,while some people do not even have roof over  their head.i am not finished a story of another man of ggodd will come out soon and it will rock or break the rccg church (story of man and woman)those powerful one in uk jesus house

Some years ago when churches stopped building poeple and were more concerned about building gigantic structures i knew it was the begining of the end. Anything outside Gods word designed to boast Mans ego will not suceed, it may be good for a while but it never lasts, people are seeing the truth now

^^ When we consider the big picture, the greater concern is not so much that some leaders will emerge to speak twisted things (Acts 20:30, ESV), but that these twisters will be encouraged by many of their listerners to continue in such things (2 Peter 2:2). That is precisely how perversion is birthed and nursed to full growth.

More excerpts from the doctoral dissertation by Asonzeh Franklin-Kennedy UKAH:


(1)   Tithe/tithing - part of qualification for ordination:

Asonzeh Franklin-Kennedy UKAH:

(pages 128-129)

An assistant pastor remains in that position for at least five years “with real achievements”. Such achievements include the demonstration of enhanced productivity in terms of tithes and attendants. Furthermore, the candidate must have passed through the mandatory training at the Redeemed Christian Bible College (RCBC). This last condition came into effect in 2001.⁴¹ The above requirements are only necessary but not sufficient conditions for ordination, for there are other factors that are considered during screening for ordination.⁴²  Those who are assistant pastors on a part-time basis could remain on this rung for not less than eight years.⁴³

Fulfilling these conditions does not earn an aspirant automatic ordination. There are some conditions that may bring about denial of ordination. Such conditions include (i) a drop in the level of moneys collected as tithes; (ii) a decline in the number of church attendants (which is different from and higher than membership);  (iii) petition against a candidate by a church member.
________
⁴¹   Personal interview with Pastor Bolarinwa, op. cit.
⁴²   Personal interview with Pastor ‘Delana Adeleye-Olusae, op. cit.
⁴³   Redemption Light, Vol. 6, No. 8, September 2001, p. 17.

^^^^
(2)   Some RCCG pastors (like Moses Adekola) are/were objective:

Asonzeh Franklin-Kennedy UKAH:

(page 161)

The amount of moneys that accrues to parishes, as tithes, donations and offerings remain one visible way of assessing and measuring the productivity and progressiveness of a pastor. As one senior pastor puts it, a pastor's “productivity must be  measurable and progressive”.¹⁵⁸  The measurable factors are tithes, attendance and  the number of church-workers.

Adekola (1989: 291)*, himself a senior pastor of RCCG at the time, writing over a decade ago about the role of finance in RCCG complains:

[list]religion has been commercialised today and people no longer heed the warning of Jesus that 'you cannot serve God and mammon' again. To exonerate the church under study (that is, the  RCCG) from this cankerworm is to be grossly unfair both to scholarship and justice.[/list]

Through different means the RCCG raises fund for diverse projects and clergy remuneration. As one of the pastors rightly says, “RCCG is one of the richest churches in Nigeria today.”¹⁵⁹ Another senior pastor says “a church that could not raise four hundred naira twenty years ago is now budgeting and spending four hundred million naira for a programme of three days”.¹⁶⁰
__________

notes:

¹⁵⁸   Personal interview with Pastor  'Delana Adeleye-Olusae, RCCG Headquarters, Ebute-Metta, Lagos, 14 May 2001. Adeleye-Olusae is the Assistant Director of Missions at the RCCG national headquarters.
¹⁵⁹   Pastor Joel Oke, “Tragedies of the Mission Opportunities”, Catalyst magazine vol. 1, no., 3 (October 2002), p. 27.
¹⁶⁰   Personal interview with pastor Ezekiel A. Odeyemi, RCCG national HQ, Ebute-Metta, Lagos, 4 June 2001.

* Adekola, Moses A. 1989. The Redeemed Christian Church of God: A Study of an Indigenous Pentecostal  Church in Nigeria. Ph.D. Thesis, Dept of Religious Studies, Obafemi Awolowo University, Ile-Ife, Nigeria.

noetic16:

1. I was tempted to think that u had abandoned the forum . . . .I was going to set up a search party. . .lol. nice to see u around.
please dont stop your exposure on false doctrines regardless of the perceived persecution.

2. One lesson to learn from your last exchange with viaro is that our differences are limited to issues and not personality. you would be surprised as to how many people who have openly antagonised u, are giving a second thought to your arguments.

3. Nairaland is not for egoic debates but for education, enlightenment and information. . . u had be surprised as to how much I have learnt from this forum.

Thanx my brother, i haven't abandoned the forum but i seem to post less these days as i really want to avoid getting into unhealthy arguments with those that are hell bent on twisting the scriptures but i am consolated in the fact that there are a lot of brethen in this forum who know and understand the bible and the gospel of Jesus christ better than myself seriously contending for the truth and fighting for the faith. it is now more difficult for someone to get away with twisted scripture on this forum than when i first joined three years ago when people twisted the scriptures endlessly on this forum and got away with it. But i must say nairaland as been a tremendous learning experience for me and i believe also for most of us on this forum. I pray that God would continually reveal his truth to us and we all as christians would not only be hearers of the word but doers as well.

Should change their name to 'Redeemed Commercialised Church of Gawd'

KunleOshob:

Thanx my brother, i haven't abandoned the forum but i seem to post less these days as i really want to avoid getting into unhealthy arguments with those that are hell bent on twisting the scriptures but i am consolated in the fact that there are a lot of brethen in this forum who know and understand the bible and the gospel of Jesus christ better than myself seriously contending for the truth and fighting for the faith. it is now more difficult for someone to get away with twisted scripture on this forum than when i first joined three years ago when people twisted the scriptures endlessly on this forum and got away with it. But i must say nairaland as been a tremendous learning experience for me and i believe also for most of us on this forum. I pray that God would continually reveal his truth to us and we all as christians would not only be hearers of the word but doers as well.

I couldn't agree more, the local NL branches of those business centers need to take a hike and find another forum to deceive others because their NL game is up.

Most times i dont want to believe some of the facts you guyz present on NL, i haven't attended RCCG or any pentecostal church for that matter.
I don't bother listening to their preachers coz its always about money, money and more money,
However the facts you guyz (viaro) presents are incredible, how can a church be so callous and its congregation so gullible, cant they read the bible themselves. Well Religious is truly the opium of the masses (Africans)

hardywaltz:

Most times i dont want to believe some of the facts you guyz present on NL, i haven't attended RCCG or any pentecostal church for that matter.
I don't bother listening to their preachers coz its always about money, money and more money,
However the facts you guyz (viaro) presents are incredible, how can a church be so callous and its congregation so gullible, cant they read the bible themselves. Well Religious is truly the opium of the masses (Africans)

Some possible answers to the two questions

A. How a "church" can be so callous?

1. All summed up in the corrupting work of satan including:
  1.1. Greed and Love of Money
  1.2. Love of Power and Position
  1.3. Ignorant entrapment in false doctrine; too much pride to repent and turn away
  1.4. Lazy and poor hermeneutics
  1.5. Too much vested interest[; too much to lose if they turn away i.e. collapse of the empire, bankruptcy ---- you must keep asking for more   
        money to maintain such a large organisation and large structure/edifices. This is where those who stress thoughtlessly "you need money to
        spread the gospel" are ignorant and sometimes daft (sorry to be blunt). Yes you need money, but you have to be wise both spiritually and
        materially --- Jesus said be as wise as serpents!
  1.6.  etc etc etc etc


B. How the congregation can be so gullible

1. Ignorance and Illiteracy (not even meant pejoratively)
2. Poor education ---- an education culture that encourages accepting (rote learning) without questioning and does not teach proper
comprehension!
3. Natural desire for success and comfort (coupled with either 1 or 2 above)
4. Greed ------ focus on material desire; seeing everything including religion/faith as the means of fulfilling material desires and greed
5. Difficulties in life and hope for a way out#
6. Superstition
7. etc etc etc

??

Enigma:


Some possible answers to the two questions

A. How a "church" can be so callous?

1. All summed up in the corrupting work of satan including:
  1.1. Greed and Love of Money
  1.2. Love of Power and Position
  1.3. Ignorant entrapment in false doctrine; too much pride to repent and turn away
  1.4. Lazy and poor hermeneutics
  1.5. Too much vested interest[; too much to lose if they turn away i.e. collapse of the empire, bankruptcy ---- you must keep asking for more   
        money to maintain such a large organisation and large structure/edifices. This is where those who stress thoughtlessly "you need money to
        spread the gospel" are ignorant and sometimes daft (sorry to be blunt). Yes you need money, but you have to be wise both spiritually and
        materially --- Jesus said be as wise as serpents!
  1.6.  etc etc etc etc


B. How the congregation can be so gullible

1. Ignorance and Illiteracy (not even meant pejoratively)
2. Poor education ---- an education culture that encourages accepting (rote learning) without questioning and does not teach proper
comprehension!
3. Natural desire for success and comfort (coupled with either 1 or 2 above)
4. Greed ------ focus on material desire; seeing everything including religion/faith as the means of fulfilling material desires and greed
5. Difficulties in life and hope for a way out#
6. Superstition
7. etc etc etc

??

You have said it all.

Enigma:


Some possible answers to the two questions

A. How a "church" can be so callous?

1. All summed up in the corrupting work of satan including:
  1.1. Greed and Love of Money
  1.2. Love of Power and Position
  1.3. Ignorant entrapment in false doctrine; too much pride to repent and turn away
  1.4. Lazy and poor hermeneutics
  1.5. Too much vested interest[; too much to lose if they turn away i.e. collapse of the empire, bankruptcy ---- you must keep asking for more   
        money to maintain such a large organisation and large structure/edifices. This is where those who stress thoughtlessly "you need money to
        spread the gospel" are ignorant and sometimes daft (sorry to be blunt). Yes you need money, but you have to be wise both spiritually and
        materially --- Jesus said be as wise as serpents!
  1.6.  etc etc etc etc


B. How the congregation can be so gullible

1. Ignorance and Illiteracy (not even meant pejoratively)
2. Poor education ---- an education culture that encourages accepting (rote learning) without questioning and does not teach proper
comprehension!
3. Natural desire for success and comfort (coupled with either 1 or 2 above)
4. Greed ------ focus on material desire; seeing everything including religion/faith as the means of fulfilling material desires and greed
5. Difficulties in life and hope for a way out#
6. Superstition
7. etc etc etc

??

True talk

hardywaltz:

Most times i dont want to believe some of the facts you guyz present on NL, i haven't attended RCCG or any pentecostal church for that matter.
I don't bother listening to their preachers coz its always about money, money and more money,
However the facts you guyz (viaro) presents are incredible, how can a church be so callous and its congregation so gullible, cant they read the bible themselves. Well Religious is truly the opium of the masses (Africans)

Nonsense, What do you read in the bible, why dont you quote it out, It is biblical for people to give for the work of ministry , so what are you refering to.?

hardywaltz:

Most times i dont want to believe some of the facts you guyz present on NL, i haven't attended RCCG or any pentecostal church for that matter.
I don't bother listening to their preachers coz its always about money, money and more money,
However the facts you guyz (viaro) presents are incredible, how can a church be so callous and its congregation so gullible, cant they read the bible themselves. Well Religious is truly the opium of the masses (Africans)

Joagbaje:

Nonsense, What do you read in the bible, why dont you quote it out, It is biblical for people to give for the work of ministry , so what are you refering to.?

2Co 9:7  Let each one [give] as he has made up his own mind and purposed in his heart, [size=18pt]not reluctantly or sorrowfully or under compulsion[/size], for God loves (He takes pleasure in, prizes above other things, and is unwilling to abandon or to do without) a cheerful (joyous, ``prompt to do it" giver [whose heart is in his giving]. [Prov. 22:9.]

Pro 22:9  He who has a bountiful eye shall be blessed, for he gives of his bread to the poor. [II Cor. 9:6-10.]

Joagbaje, the Bible [b]never preached [/b]forceful and compulsory giving. You need to show us where that is in the Bible.

InesQor:

2Co 9:7 Let each one [give] as he has made up his own mind and purposed in his heart, [size=18pt]not reluctantly or sorrowfully or under compulsion[/size], for God loves (He takes pleasure in, prizes above other things, and is unwilling to abandon or to do without) a cheerful (joyous, ``prompt to do it" giver [whose heart is in his giving]. [Prov. 22:9.]

Pro 22:9 He who has a bountiful eye shall be blessed, for he gives of his bread to the poor. [II Cor. 9:6-10.]

Joagbaje, the Bible [b]never preached [/b]forceful and compulsory giving. You need to show us where that is in the Bible.

You call yourself a christian and yet join all these umbelievers to rubish churches. That is your own work of ministry.
There is no church that does compulsory , forceful giving. It is only on NL such unfounded exaggeration exists.

Joagbaje:

You call yourself a christian

Are you trying to make a joke? I call myself a Christian? I am a Christian but I don't even have to say so most times, wherever I go or whoever I talk to, people know it!

Joagbaje:

and yet join all these umbelievers to rubish churches. That is your own work of ministry.

Bone that thing! If an unbeliever is right, I will agree with him/her. That's TRUTH and HONESTY. And if my pastor tells a lie, I will tell him he did so. Out of love I may not say it when someone else is there. If he doesn't like hearing the truth, I will find another church. There is no human being that I am not equal to in God's sight. The pastor or Christian's role is to be the salt and light to the world, so if we see the truth we BACK IT UP. WHETHER it hurts us or not.

Do you think I'm happy to see the name of God profaned among unbelievers on NL and elsewhere? NO!!!! And that is why i will continue to speak until there is a change. Sitting on your haunches and doing nothing, taking sides with wrongdoing JUST BECAUSE they are Christians, is too bad. See what Jesus said about such an attitude:
[size=15pt]Mat 5:13  You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste (its strength, its quality), how can its saltness be restored? It is not good for anything any longer but to be thrown out and trodden underfoot by men.[/size]
When salt is no longer salt, it is not different from sand. SPEAK THE TRUTH, even when it hurts. Ciao.

Joagbaje:

There is no church that does compulsory , forceful giving. It is only on NL such unfounded exaggeration exists.

Did you read through viaro's posts?  Viaro is my friend, but I don't always take his word for anything, so I clicked the link and followed it to read for myself and I found out he was right. RCCG themselves have said that it is an obligation, it is compulsory, so what are you on about? 

Joagbaje:

You call yourself a christian and yet join all these umbelievers to rubish churches. That is your own work of ministry.
There is no church that does compulsory , forceful giving. It is only on NL such unfounded exaggeration exists.

So because am a Christian I should not question the criminalities and unchristian activities happening in RCCG? bE TRUTHFUL to urself and as a christian,,,do you think RCCG is being operated the way a TRUE church of Jesus Christ should be??Do you want to in all sincerety validate what they put up on those sites for money/materials sake? The least I can say is that am highly disappointed in RCCG,,,people should go and tell the GO that people are much more wiser now ,,,,and the church should wake up from their slumber.
The BEREAN christians usually make sure they confirm whatevere anybody teaches them with the Bible,,,and if its contrary to what the Bible tells them,,,they would discard it,,,and if the BEREAN christians re alive today,,,I can assure that they would condemn many of the activities of RCCG,,,Many of the Pastors in RCCG re not even born again,,
RCCG cares so much about ur money than ur spirtual life,,,that is why you would see many of their pastors involved in fraudulent activities,,

@InesQor:
God bless you man,,,I ve always told people that you don't ve to be a pastor in order to be a better christian,,,most pastors/GO in Nigeria ve misplaced priorities and simply being motivated by material gains than spiritual gains,,its a big shame,,,JESUS is lord and there is no CONTROVERSY about that,,,
The below iscripture truly describes the present state of RCCG,,,RCCG has or must go back to where it started,,RCCG is right now motivated by a completely different Gospel that is not of Christ,,,its a difficult and a sad truth,,,

Mat 5:13 You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste (its strength, its quality), how can its saltness be restored? It is not good for anything any longer but to be thrown out and trodden underfoot by men.
When salt is no longer salt, it is not different from sand. SPEAK THE TRUTH, even when it hurts. Ciao.

I say wow!! Just wow!!

What monumental deception?

Narrow indeed is the way

Lord have mercy

I'm shocked. Really.