OkaiCorne:




Graycoder;

Energy cannot be created nor destroyed ....I agree
Energy is spontaneous (acts on its own) ....I agree
Energy is not conscious nor intelligent ... I agree
Energy can be converted from one form to another ...I agree

After all I have stated above...how is Unconscious and Unintelligent Energy solely responsible for creation of Conscious and Intelligent life forms and intelligence or consciousness is not involved in the process What makes energy act? nothing?

Can energy just stand up on its own and create things

If you read what Akin1212 typed...he stated Energy (alone) is what we perceive as God that we worship...

Am I wrong is stating (Intellect + Consciousness +Energy) = Eternal Creator

Please help me on this

If you agree on what I have bolded in your comment above. Then with all due respect sir, there's no point in further discussions.

You agreed that energy is spontaneous? This means energy does not need anybody to use it before it creates something.

You agreed energy cannot be created or destroyed? That means energy is Eternal, it can exist forever.

You agreed energy is not conscious or unintelligent? That means it doesn't know itself as energy and cannot make decisions on what's wrong or right when it creates things.

You agreed that energy can be converted from one form to another? That means no matter what form it exist, it is still energy and we have many forms of it.



So sir, in light of all your agreements above. You have ultimately agreed that spontaneous Energy is enough to create something by itself, and that this energy which cannot be created nor destroyed is eternal, and that this energy is unintelligent and not conscious and cannot as a result make decisions on what is wrong or right when it creates, and that this energy has many forms.


May I ask? Why are you then arguing and going back & forth? You already agreed to everything Akin has been saying.

OkaiCorne:


"Teacher" Akin1212 who is running away? I am still here o, maybe Graycoder can resolve this our matter.

It would be nice if theist vs atheist quarrels reduce on NL

You have answered your questions yourself bros.

Graycoder:


If you agree on what I have bolded in your comment above. Then with all due respect sir, there's no point in further discussions.

You agreed that energy is spontaneous? This means energy does not need anybody to use it before it creates something.

You agreed energy cannot be created or destroyed? That means energy is Eternal, it can exist forever.

You agreed energy is not conscious or unintellegent? That means it doesn't know itself as energy and cannot make decisions on what's wrong or right.

You agreed that energy can be converted from one form to another? That means no matter what form it exist, it is still energy and we have many forms of it.



So sir, in light of all your agreements above. You have ultimately agreed that spontaneous Energy is enough to create something by itself, and that this energy which cannot be created nor destroyed is eternal, and that this energy is unintelligent and not conscious and cannot as a result make decisions, and that this energy has many forms.


May I ask? Why are you then arguing and going back & forth? You already agreed to everything Akin has been saying.

Please sir where do you live? I need to give you a trophy for opening the eyes of my unintelligent friend. Thank you very much sir

He believed energy is spontaneous, yet he is crying somebody must use energy. I bet he does not know the meaning of spontaneity.

Graycoder:


If you agree on what I have bolded in your comment above. Then with all due respect sir, there's no point in further discussions.

You agreed that energy is spontaneous? This means energy does not need anybody to use it before it creates something.

You agreed energy cannot be created or destroyed? That means energy is Eternal, it can exist forever.

You agreed energy is not conscious or unintelligent? That means it doesn't know itself as energy and cannot make decisions on what's wrong or right.

You agreed that energy can be converted from one form to another? That means no matter what form it exist, it is still energy and we have many forms of it.



So sir, in light of all your agreements above. You have ultimately agreed that spontaneous Energy is enough to create something by itself, and that this energy which cannot be created nor destroyed is eternal, and that this energy is unintelligent and not conscious and cannot as a result make decisions, and that this energy has many forms.


May I ask? Why are you then arguing and going back & forth? You already agreed to everything Akin has been saying.

Dear Graycoder, I bolded the part where you misunderstood me...

But if I might ask...what makes Unconscious energy Spontaneous?

Consciousness is the opposite of Spontaneous and ...can Spontaneous and Unintelligent Energy create something Conscious and Intelligent?

https://www.google.com.ng/search?q=spontaneity&oq=spontainei&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l5.7586j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#dobs=spontaneous

I think you are making a breakthrough here Graycoder

Just help me clarify if something can be spontaneous (act on its own) without any iota of Intelligence to Create the Universe.

Thank you sir.

Akin1212:


Please sir where do you live? I need to give you a trophy for opening the eyes of my unintelligent friend. Thank you very much sir

He believed energy is spontaneous, yet he is crying somebody must use energy. I bet he does not know the meaning of spontaneity.

Has any intelligent life form been created from Spontaneous energy alone? Do you have any basic example of Intelligent life forms created by Unconscious and Spontaneous energy with zero intelligence

OkaiCorne:


Has any intelligent life form been created from Spontaneous energy alone? Do you have any basic example of Intelligent life forms created by Unconscious and Spontaneous energy

You and I, and that blind man that was born blind plus that dude that was born without limbs, Siamese twins, that boy in India with 10 limbs too.

What makes you different to them? Spontaneity and unintelligence of our mighty creator Energy.

Akin1212:


You and I, and that blind man that was born blind plus that dude that was born without limbs, Siamese twins, that boy in India with 10 limbs too.

What makes you different to them? Spontaneity and unintelligence of our mighty creator Energy.

Akin1212 let's start with things we agree on;

Energy plays an essential role in Creation...we are clear on that one.

Energy needs intellect and consciousness to create something...do you agree on this one?

Without Energy (aka Spirit as per Holybooks), "God" can do nothing...do you agree on this one? God being (Intellect +Consciousness +Energy)

Akin1212:


You and I, and that blind man that was born blind plus that dude that was born without limbs, Siamese twins, that boy in India with 10 limbs too.

What makes you different to them? Spontaneity and unintelligence of our mighty creator Energy.

Did Energy need materials to create these things or not? Or only energy created living things

OkaiCorne:


Dear Graycoder, I bolded the part where you misunderstood me...

But if I might ask...what makes Unconscious energy Spontaneous?

Consciousness is the opposite of Spontaneous and ...can Spontaneous and Unintelligent Energy create something Conscious and Intelligent?

https://www.google.com.ng/search?q=spontaneity&oq=spontainei&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l5.7586j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#dobs=spontaneous

I think you are making a breakthrough here Graycoder

Just help me clarify if something can be spontaneous (act on its own) without any iota of Intelligence to Create the Universe.

Thank you sir.

With all due respect sir, the opposite of spontaneous is not conscious in this context. In this context the opposite is "Planning".

Besides, I did not say the energy is conscious. I said it is unconscious which means I am still correct on the basis of consciousness.

See, if consciousness is the opposite of spontaneity, so energy cannot be conscious because it is spontaneous. Then we are still right. We are not saying energy is conscious, we are saying it is unconscious.


Yes, spontaneous and unintelligent energy can create something conscious and intelligent as well as something unconscious and unintelligent.

OkaiCorne:


Akin1212 let's start with things we agree on;

Energy plays an essential role in Creation...we are clear on that one.

Energy needs intellect and consciousness to create something...do you agree on this one?

Without Energy (aka Spirit as per Holybooks), "God" can do nothing...do you agree on this one? God being (Intellect +Consciousness +Energy)

Bros stop swindling yourself, I did not follow you and agree that energy plays a role in creation. Energy is responsible for everything. Energy is the Creator itself.

On the second one, energy does not need any intellect and consciousness, it is spontaneous, not conscious. Energy did not deliberately create Bermuda triangle. Maybe your imaginary creator did though. Only you know that.

Graycoder:


With all due respect sir, the opposite of spontaneous is not conscious in this context. In this context the opposite is "Planning".

Besides, I did not say the energy is conscious. I said it is unconscious which means I am still correct on the basis of consciousness.

See, if consciousness is the opposite of spontaneity. Then we are still right. We are not saying energy is conscious, we are saying it is unconscious.


Yes, spontaneous and unintelligent energy can create something conscious and intelligent as well as something unconscious and unintelligent.

Care to share any example of Energy (with zero intelligence and consciousness) creating a Conscious and Intelligent life form?

Akin1212:


Bros stop swindling yourself, I did not follow you and agree that energy plays a role in creation. Energy is responsible for everything. Energy is the Creator itself.

On the second one, energy does not need any intellect and consciousness, it is spontaneous, not conscious. Energy did not deliberately create Bermuda triangle. Maybe your imaginary creator did though. Only you know that.

Akin1212 Let's solve a puzzle here;

If Man (Intelligence +Consciousness + Energy) is created in the image of God (Intelligence +Consciousness + Energy)...

Can your definition of God (Energy alone) hold any water?

Akin1212 you need to be a combination of (Intelligence, Consciousness and Energy) before you can create anything.

Am I wrong on this? If yes...how

OkaiCorne:


Care to share any example of Energy (with zero intelligence and consciousness) creating a Conscious and Intelligent life form?

You are a perfect example of a conscious and intelligent life form created by the universal energy.

You agreed on all the properties of energy.

I believe you understood the unconscious and unintelligent properties of energy is for energy alone and not necessarily it's creations.

When we agree on this, then we can move to the properties of its creations.

OkaiCorne:


Akin1212 Let's solve a puzzle here;

If Man (Intelligence +Consciousness + Energy) is created in the image of God (Intelligence +Consciousness + Energy)...

Can your definition of God (Energy alone) hold any water?

Akin1212 you need to be a combination of (Intelligence, Consciousness and Energy) before you can create anything.

Am I wrong on this? If yes...how

Don't be mistaken, I am not defining God, there's nothing like that.

There's no puzzle to solve, there's only an explanation to give and understand.

If a man like you, (intelligent + whole + Conscious) was created in the image of God(Intelligent + whole + conscious).

In whose image is an imbecile_ man (unintelligent + broken + unconscious) made. God(Intelligent + whole + conscious) ?

Energy is responsible for the good and bad things of life, and it didn't do it deliberately.

Graycoder:


You are a perfect example of a conscious and intelligent life form created by the universal energy.

You agreed on all the properties of energy.

I believe you understood the unconscious and unintelligent properties of energy is for energy alone and not necessarily it's creations.

When we agree on this, then we can move to the properties of its creations.

Where does consciousness and intelligence come from? Can energy give what it does not have?

OkaiCorne:


Where does consciousness and intelligence come from? Can energy give what it does not have?

Creation is not giving what you have out. Or is that what it means to you?

Energy did not make anything in its own image, it just caused things to happen randomly. Whether it'll be conscious or not is not its problem nor his decision. It's a random process.

No intelligent thing will create this world the way it was or is. It would have been better than it was if it was created by an intelligent being.

Akin1212:


Don't be mistaken, I am not defining God, there's nothing like that.

There's no puzzle to solve, there's only an explanation to give and understand.

If a man like you, (intelligent + whole + Conscious) was created in the image of God(Intelligent + whole + conscious).

In whose image is an imbecile_ man (unintelligent + broken + unconscious) made. God(Intelligent + whole + conscious) ?

Energy is responsible for the good and bad things of life, and it didn't do it deliberately.

Have you considered the power of choice of man in all these deviations? e.g incompatible parents leading to defective children?

OkaiCorne:


Have you considered the power of choice of man in all these deviations? e.g incompatible parents leading to defective children?

No, I considered your stance that all humans were created in the image of a God. So incompatibility does not have a say because even the parents would have been created in God's image too. No matter the choice we make.
We would just be replicating God's image no matter the compatibility which should normally produce God's image. But that's not the case.


However, If I am to consider Energy, I would put into consideration the unconscious and unintelligent nature of energy which gives room for incompatibility and errors. and hence different kinds of human forms.

OkaiCorne:


Have you considered the power of choice of man in all these deviations? e.g incompatible parents leading to defective children?

No, I considered your stance that all humans were created in the image of a God. So incompatibility does not have a say because even the parents would have been created in God's image too. No matter the choice we make.
We would just be replicating God's image no matter the compatibility which should normally produce God's image. But that's not the case.


However, If I am to consider Energy, I would put into consideration the unconscious and unintelligent nature of energy which gives room for incompatibility and errors. and hence different kinds of human forms.

Graycoder:


Creation is not giving what you have out. Or is that what it means to you?

Energy did not make anything in its own image, it just caused things to happen randomly. Whether it'll be conscious or not is not its problem nor his decision. It's a random process.

No intelligent thing will create this world the way it was or is. It would have been better than it was if it was created by an intelligent being.

In summary you are saying life was created by accident and coincidence with zero planning and intelligence involved in the process?

OkaiCorne:


In summary you are saying life was created by accident and coincidence with zero planning and intelligence involved in the process?

Yes, exactly. Just the mighty spontaneous, unconscious and unintelligent, eternal energy. But through a process much more deeper than what you can obviously understand and process.

But basically, in your understanding. This is it.

OkaiCorne:


In summary you are saying life was created by accident and coincidence with zero planning and intelligence involved in the process?

Exactly sir, that is what I am implying. But it goes deeper than this. We have to talk about the electrostatic, biochemical, chemical and biological interactions. I doubt we can really get there today.

Graycoder:


Creation is not giving what you have out. Or is that what it means to you?

Energy did not make anything in its own image, it just caused things to happen randomly. Whether it'll be conscious or not is not its problem nor its decision. It's a random process.

No intelligent thing will create this world the way it was or is. It would have been better than it was if it was created by an intelligent being.

I wish we can meet sir.

Akin1212:


No, I considered your stance that all humans were created in the image of a God. So incompatibility does not have a say because even the parents would have been created in God's image too. No matter the choice we make.
We would just be replicating God's image no matter the compatibility which should normally produce God's image. But that's not the case.


However, If I am to consider Energy, I would put into consideration the unconscious and unintelligent nature of energy which gives room for incompatibility and errors. and hence different kinds of human forms.

Is this spontainety in energy also responsible the vast majority of human beings without the defects you mentioned earlier? Or there is no element of planning and intelligence involved?

Graycoder:


Exactly sir, that is what I am implying. But it goes deeper than this. We have to talk about the electrostatic, biochemical, chemical and biological interactions. I doubt we can really get there today.

I respect your patience sir, please can I explain why I don't agree?

OkaiCorne:


I respect your patience sir, please can I explain why I don't agree?

Go ahead.

OkaiCorne:


Is this spontainety in energy also responsible the vast majority of human beings without the defects you mentioned earlier? Or there is no element of planning and intelligence involved?

NO, The spontaneity is the property of energy to act on its own without anybody using it, but the unconsciousness and unintelligence are responsible. You see the vast majority of normal people is due to the choices made by other normal people. There are biochemical laws that guide these processes and it depends solely on energy.

As against your point of the image of God. However, two normal parents can still give birth to a defected baby. But if the two normal humans were made in the image of God, were they not supposed to give birth to a child in the image of God?

Akin1212:


NO, The spontaneity is the property of energy to act on its own without anybody using it, but the unconsciousness and unintelligence are responsible. You see the vast majority of normal people is due to the choices made by other normal people. There are biochemical laws that guide these processes and it depends solely on energy.

As against your point of the image of God. However, two normal parents can still give birth to a defected baby. But if the two normal humans were made in the image of God, were they not supposed to give birth to a child in the image of God?

It's good to know we can relate without insults again

But is the spontaneity of energy responsible for the norm (image of "God" ) or the defects? If both...then energy is more planned than spontaneous, which goes against the basic definitions of energy.

You need to consider the norm (planned) is in overwhelming majority as against the defects (spontaneous)

Biko no reply me with insults ... na beg I dey beg you o

Graycoder:


Go ahead.

I still can't establish a logical connection on how energy is solely responsible for Consciousness and Intelligence.

Is it possible for a Creator (Energy) to create what it does not have? especially the direct opposite? (I don't mean God creating Devil o)

Does Science and Logic support this?

Graycoder:


Exactly sir, that is what I am implying. But it goes deeper than this. We have to talk about the electrostatic, biochemical, chemical and biological interactions. I doubt we can really get there today.

I was also thinking...if life is a product of accident and zero planning...why is the Universe not in total chaos? Why are there patterns and Cycles?

Something independent of energy i.e. planning and intelligence should have some degree of intervention in the creation process.

What do you think sir?

OkaiCorne:


I still can't establish a logical connection on how energy is solely responsible for Consciousness and Intelligence.

Is it possible for a Creator (Energy) to create what it does not have? especially the direct opposite? (I don't mean God creating Devil o)

Does Science and Logic support this?

It is because you have not been taught science. There is advance science and there is basic science. That is why I have argued it in the past that science shouldn't be a choice. It should be taught to everybody, every child in school. Whether you're going for arts or administration.

You can see the dilemma here. The logical connection is in advance science. Like deep physics, biochemistry, biology and chemistry.

Yes science and logic support the creation of something out of nothing! Scientific logic has proved it many times.

For example, there are concepts called entropy and enthalpy. The world is actually not in order. That is why we do have natural disasters and other bad things happening around. We will have to talk about molecules, matter. We will have to talk about bond and bonding energies. We will have to touch science in depths.

I said we cannot get there today not in the nexy year because you don't have the background to absorb these things.

Graycoder:


It is because you have not been taught science. There is advance science and there is basic science. That is why I have argued it in the past that science shouldn't be a choice. It should be taught to everybody, every child in school. Whether you're going for arts or administration.

You can see the dilemma here. The logical connection is in advance science. Like deep physics, biochemistry, biology and chemistry.

Yes science and logic support the creation of something out of nothing! Scientific logic has proved it many times.

For example, there are concepts called entropy and enthalpy. The world is actually not in order. That is why we do have natural disasters and other bad things happening around. We will have to talk about molecules, matter. We will have to talk about bond and bonding energies. We will have to touch science in depths.

I said we cannot get there today not in the nexy year because you don't have the background to absorb these things.

Please be a bit more patient with me sir. I am the type of student that reads and ask a lot of questions... I can understand if you are past your tolerance point

Is it right to conclude that the world is not in order based on exceptions (natural disasters) rather than the norm?

The world also has a lot of places with stability and order ... why conclude based on exceptions?

If we look at things on a large Scale, is the Universe in order (programmed and planned) or in Total Chaos?

In all honesty...I didn't know my basic questions would lead us into advanced science...it's well.

Thanks for your time and patience Graycoder & Akin1212 though I still have certain questions not convincingly answered to conclude on the absence of an Eternal Creator...

BUT YOU GUYS DID A GREAT JOB TAKING THE THREAD THIS FAR... Akin1212 make I no catch you for theist threads o