salvation101:

In ur usual manner u r looking for upright cross in the Bible wen i told u its recorded in history, why don't u do a Google search nd save ursef some embrassment. It goes to show u don't really know as much as u claimed, i overrated you.

I was quite unaware that you rate people in your Church. We do not rate anyone. As a matter of fact, we are all equal, one under Christ.

If you are searching history for what the Bible has an account for, I wonder where your allegiance lies. Jehovah's Witness believe and trust the Bible for answers. We do not go about searching Google. The Bible is far superior to any other books on earth and it contains the life-saving message for all.

This is why we go out every day come rain come sun, to encourage people to read their own Bibles and not use it as pillows.

Wow, ur comment is now unusually short, guess u just found the word xulon ur watchtower society would be highly disappointed wit u right now.

Oops, wat was the will of the Jews? Wasn't it for pilate to crucify him? Why were they shouting, crucify him, crucify him instead of allow us crucify him? Who were those who scorged him? Who were those who nailed him to d cross? Who wrote on his cross that "This is Jesus the king of the jews" and wen d jews asked him to change it he said wat i av written i av written?
According to Deut 21:23, was Jesus a corpse before he was hung on the cross and why weren't any of the three of them stoned? Where is it written that a thief should be hung alive? D law was clear dat the criminal should be executed and the corpse hung for all to see.

The Greeks has been killing ppl on Stauros since 300bc

removetheturban:
Jesus was not crucified to begin with, he was impaled on a stake. Secondly, have you ever read the account of Jesus death at all?

Luke 23:25 "He released the man whom they were demanding, who had been thrown into prison for sedition and murder, but he surrendered Jesus to their will".

Jesus was killed according to the tradition of the Jews Deuteronomy 21:23; Galatians 3:13; Acts 5:30. Are you still arguing about it? He was killed like a thief. This was the same sentence given to a robber in the Mosaic law. You can tell by the two other persons killed on that same day.

Do you still have doubt?

removetheturban:
I was quite unaware that you rate people in your Church. We do not rate anyone. As a matter of fact, we are all equal, one under Christ.

If you are searching history for what the Bible has an account for, I wonder where your allegiance lies. Jehovah's Witness believe and trust the Bible for answers. We do not go about searching Google. The Bible is far superior to any other books on earth and it contains the life-saving message for all.

This is why we go out every day come rain come sun, to encourage people to read their own Bibles and not use it as pillows.

ok tell me where u found the story of Tyndale nd King James in ur Bible..

salvation101:
ok. So it is safe to say Man was created in Jesus image since Jesus and God had same image?

Nope, who own the Copyright Lol . ?

The Owner of the image owns the credit . You Wont say your daughter was made in your image because you take part in her coming to earth , or because she is human as you , will you ?

Jesus didn't own the image, he was given . the Giver owns the credit

salvation101:

So according to ur Bible it was the jews dat executed Jesus?oops wat av u been learning? In case dey didn't teach you, the jews arrested Jesus and took him to the Roman government nd charged him with false allegations, pilate sent the case to Herod who was d Jewish king who sent back thr matter to pilate. Den pilate executed him to please the jews.

You need more personal Bible study time. I will ask you only three questions.

1) Who arrested Jesus?

2) Who decided his judgment?

3) What law according to the Roman constitution did he break?

U r lieing again, the word of God is clear on dis, if anyone (not just robbers) committed offenses that requires capital punishment, dey are to be killed and their body hung. The Roman method copied from d Greek involves someone hung on Staruos and allowed to die slowly and painfully. Infact, dey even try to confirm if the person was truly dead right there on the cross as opposed to the Jewish method of killing first and den hanging the corpse for all to see

removetheturban:

I am not knowledgeable, to begin. The knowledgeable are your revered 55 educated Puritans who you said make mistakes while copying a stolen material.

All I am doing is pleading for you to do just a little research.

If the Greek are the ones with such tradition (to impale robbers)? Then how did the Jewish and Roman traditions get into the book of Deuteronomy written by Moses in 1473 BCE? Did you know that the difference in time was almost 1500 years apart before Greece became a thing? And almost 2000 years before Rome became a thing?

This has been a tradition of the Jews for thousands of years before the Romans and Greeks came to the show. So, your argument defies logic. The Jews continued their traditions even amidst the Roman influences.

I guess your thought is that they all lived together both Greeks and Romans and Jews in the same city, yeah?

Well, not all. Jerusalem was home to most Jews and the Romans or Hellenistic Greeks and Romans were on their way but. The Jews were only paying taxes to Ceasar which the scribes and tax collector were in charge of.

The Roman governor did not 'control' the traditions of the Jews. He had no time for that.

How can that be present in my Bible? It has no link to my salvation. The story of Tyndale and the Bible is taught in secular education at the elementary level. I wonder why you never heard about it until now. Well, maybe I was privileged to have good teachers.
I do not have any negative feeling about the Bible, don't get me wrong. I am just saying that using it as a barometer to judge the NWT is a collateral mistake.

salvation101:
ok tell me where u found the story of Tyndale nd King James in ur Bible..

removetheturban:
You need more personal Bible study time. I will ask you only three questions.

1) Who arrested Jesus?

2) Who decided his judgment?

3) What law according to the Roman constitution did he break?

1.Jesus was arrested by temple leaders in company of temple guards .
2.Pilate decided the judgment.
3. Jesus was falsely accused before pilate to have been inciting ppl to stop paying tribute to ceasar (luke 23:5) wch is treasonous and subverting the Jewish tradition..

I have never said that It was ONLY for robbers. I put that one in parenthesis as an example. How did I lie? Should I list the entire law? I only picked that one out to buttress my point. If a man has committed a sin worthy of death, he is impaled according to the tradition. I quoted the scripture in Deuteronomy 21:2, and that is where you read stuff. So, why would I be lying and at the same time providing clues to you? Read the Bible and you will find it.

You are complicating things for yourself. But I am glad that you have learned that it is the Jewish tradition. Saying that the Greek copied it is funny. You are trying too hard to link the tradition of the Jews to the Hellenistic traditions. Deuteronomy 21:23 was written thousands of years and the tradition has been kept for many generations before Greek became a power and in turn, Rome. So, just stick to the truth. There is no way around it.

salvation101:
U r lieing again, the word of God is clear on dis, if anyone (not just robbers) committed offenses that requires capital punishment, dey are to be killed and their body hung. The Roman method copied from d Greek involves someone hung on Staruos and allowed to die slowly and painfully. Infact, dey even try to confirm if the person was truly dead right there on the cross as opposed to the Jewish method of killing first and den hanging the corpse for all to see

removetheturban:
How can that be present in my Bible? It has no link to my salvation. The story of Tyndale and the Bible is taught in secular education at the elementary level. I wonder why you never heard about it until now. Well, maybe I was privileged to have good teachers.
I do not have any negative feeling about the Bible, don't get me wrong. I am just saying that using it as a barometer to judge the NWT is a collateral mistake.

lol, interesting. I tot u said u do not care about history but only wat u find in d Bible.. Oh, or u mean u only believe distorted history from ur teachers? U don't do objective researches on ur own?

Where did i say the greeks copied it from the jews? Are they the same thing? The method of crucifixion d greeks used was copied from the Phoenicians.. Google is ur friend... They are two different methods.. One involves killing den display corpse, the other wch is more cruel involves beating and hanging on d cross till d individual dies a slow and painful death

removetheturban:
I have never said that It was ONLY for robbers. I put that one in parenthesis as an example. How did I lie? Should I list the entire law? I only picked that one out to buttress my point. If a man has committed a sin worthy of death, he is impaled according to the tradition. I quoted the scripture in Deuteronomy 21:2, and that is where you read stuff. So, why would I be lying and at the same time providing clues to you? Read the Bible and you will find it.

You are complicating things for yourself. But I am glad that you have learned that it is the Jewish tradition. Saying that the Greek copied it is funny. You are trying too hard to link the tradition of the Jews to the Hellenistic traditions. Deuteronomy 21:23 was written thousands of years and the tradition has been kept for many generations before Greek became a power and in turn, Rome. So, just stick to the truth. There is no way around it.

salvation101:


1.Jesus was arrested by temple leaders in company of temple guards .

Are they Romans?

salvation101:

2.Pilate decided the judgment.

On what ground?

salvation101:

3. Jesus was falsely accused before pilate to have been inciting ppl to stop paying tribute to ceasar (luke 23:5) wch is treasonous and subverting the Jewish tradition..

Can you copy and paste the quoted scripture from your Bible let us see if it reconciles your statement? Was that the ground for judgment? As the governor of Judea, and head of the legislation governing that district, did he find Jesus guilty of breaking any Roman law?

salvation101:
Where did i say the greeks copied it from the jews? Are they the same thing? The method of crucifixion d greeks used was copied from the Phoenicians.. Google is ur friend... They are two different methods.. One involves killing den display corpse, the other wch is more cruel involves beating and hanging on d cross till d individual dies a slow and painful death

LOL. Before Google, I have had a library. Well, we are telling two different tales here. To narrow it down, I do not know about crucifixion because my Bible did not tell me that it had anything to do with Jesus' death. The Greek word used in the scripture is STAUROS and when translated, it is stake/pole/tree in English.

You may be referring to another Jesus who died in Athens as your crucifixion. A cloned clown from Arabia or Byzantium. According to Deuteronomy, you have been told you that this tradition stems down to the time of Moses which was thousands of years apart. So, even if Stauros isn't sufficient for you, the Hebrew word might shock you even more. This is a prophecy right from that time that Jesus came to fulfil.

salvation101:


Why don't u use a valid Greek online dictionary(dat has nothing to do with watch tower) to look for the meaning of the word Starous nd send the screenshot here lets see d ignorant one.

Years to come you will look back and wonder if you ever typed this. Would it be possible to correspond with any of the 55 educated Puritans today? The 55 educated Puritans might still be updated stuff on Google for you and you will copy and paste into your brain mistakenly.

Do you believe that Jesus came to fulfil the law of Moses?

removetheturban:
LOL. Before Google, I have had a library. Well, we are telling two different tales here. To narrow it down, I do not know about crucifixion because my Bible did not tell me that it had anything to do with Jesus' death. The Greek word used in the scripture is STAUROS and when translated, it is stake/pole/tree in English.

You may be referring to another Jesus who died in Athens as your crucifixion. A cloned clown from Arabia or Byzantium. According to Deuteronomy, you have been told you that this tradition stems down to the time of Moses which was thousands of years apart. So, even if Stauros isn't sufficient for you, the Hebrew word might shock you even more. This is a prophecy right from that time that Jesus came to fulfil.

very funny of you to call Jesus all those names just because it didn't agree with wat ir teachers had been teaching you. Well its called indoctrination. Same thing could make a man wear a vest of bomb nd think he is fighting for God..
U av a library, its my advice dat u throw those books away. U still aren't bold enough to tell us wat u found on d internet or any dictionary wen u searched for the meaning of Stauros.. Why are u so scared of the truth? Or are u ashamed cos some of the ppl u av been teaching are on dis thread nd u can't imagine u av been telling dem d wrong things all dis years?

salvation101:

So u didn't see the greek word xulon in the manuscript (gal3:13, Acts5:30, Acts10:39, Act13:29, 1peter 2:24)? Naa, u couldn't av just said dat so it was starous u saw in the manuscript let me forgive you, am sure u didn't check dat out. Now please, check the original manuscript and see it its xulon or startous u see, be honest to tell us wat u found.
The word xulon means wood. 1cor3:12. The word xulon was used wch was translated as wood
....
.... D remaining of my reply will be in d next post

You are such a comic relief, I promise you. I have never seen this word Xulon. I admit, it is new to me. Can you double-check if you truly you are referring to XYLON as opposed to Xulon? Verify and we can proceed from there. Xulon is very South African'ish

removetheturban:
Are they Romans? On what ground? Can you copy and paste the quoted scripture from your Bible let us see if it reconciles your statement? Was that the ground for judgment? As the governor of Judea, and head of the legislation governing that district, did he find Jesus guilty of breaking any Roman law?

Wen our colonial masters were around and a criminal os handed over to their authorities, if the person is killed by the government, are the ppl who handed d criminal to dem British? U couldn't relate dis analogy huh

On the account that there were ppl ready to bear false witness. Why did the jews have to bother about looking for false witnesses.. In law, its not about how u feel about an event but about the available facts.. Its not about how pilate felt but about d fact on ground. Ppl can to stand as false witnesses

Acts12:2, james was killed by Herod with a sword
Acts 7:52 ,Acts 8:1 Stephen was killed by the jews and paul( Saul) consented to it. Paul said according to the Mosaic law he was blameless.. How could he consent to the death of a blasphemer(according to dem) and not follow due process? (according to u) and still say he was blameless?

Now can u do ur sef and ur other members some favor and make enquiries about how Roman emperor Nero killed some of Jesus disciples (some of dem were killed exactly d same way u r trying to deny).. Please do revert to us ur findings

Some of the books are written by the 55 educated Puritans. Should I also throw them away?
I have told you the truth about the Bible but you are programmed not to accept or believe. Stauros does not mean cross. compare tree to a cross for a minute. Since you insist, I cannot dissect your skull to instil knowledge into it. But, as you research fonder you will realise many things. You rejoice in lack of knowledge of Bible truth and you pride in it.

Ponder briefly using your human knowledge, how can tree be translated to mean a cross. the definition of cross does not even agree to it.

salvation101:
very funny of you to call Jesus all those names just because it didn't agree with wat ir teachers had been teaching you. Well its called indoctrination. Same thing could make a man wear a vest of bomb nd think he is fighting for God..
U av a library, its my advice dat u throw those books away. U still aren't bold enough to tell us wat u found on d internet or any dictionary wen u searched for the meaning of Stauros.. Why are u so scared of the truth? Or are u ashamed cos some of the ppl u av been teaching are on dis thread nd u can't imagine u av been telling dem d wrong things all dis years?

removetheturban:
You are such a comic relief, I promise you. I have never seen this word Xulon. I admit, it is new to me. Can you double-check if you truly you are referring to XYLON as opposed to Xulon? Verify and we can proceed from there. Xulon is very South African'ish

nope, its xulon.. Did u check those references nd didn't see xulon in d greek text

Equivocation. I asked you to paste the scripture that you quoted so that we can check if it corresponded. This wasn't my question.

salvation101:


Wen our colonial masters were around and a criminal os handed over to their authorities, if the person is killed by the government, are the ppl who handed d criminal to dem British? U couldn't relate dis analogy huh

On the account that there were ppl ready to bear false witness. Why did the jews have to bother about looking for false witnesses.. In law, its not about how u feel about an event but about the available facts.. Its not about how pilate felt but about d fact on ground. Ppl can to stand as false witnesses

Acts12:2, james was killed by Herod with a sword
Acts 7:52 ,Acts 8:1 Stephen was killed by the jews and paul( Saul) consented to it. Paul said according to the Mosaic law he was blameless.. How could he consent to the death of a blasphemer(according to dem) and not follow due process? (according to u) and still say he was blameless?

Now can u do ur sef and ur other members some favor and make enquiries about how Roman emperor Nero killed some of Jesus disciples (some of dem were killed exactly d same way u r trying to deny).. Please do revert to us ur findings

removetheturban:
Some of the books are written by the 55 educated Puritans. Should I also throw them away?
I have told you the truth about the Bible but you are programmed not to accept or believe. Stauros does not mean cross. compare tree to a cross for a minute. Since you insist, I cannot dissect your skull to instil knowledge into it. But, as you research fonder you will realise many things. You rejoice in lack of knowledge of Bible truth and you pride in it.

Ponder briefly using your human knowledge, how can tree be translated to mean a cross. the definition of cross does not even agree to it.

Hehehehehehe. Contrary to ur belief, i am more open minded than u. Wen i made a mistake i was quick to admit it but u r shying away from urs cos u want to be correct..
Did u check those references to see if those words in d greek text are Stauros or xulon? Or u saw xulon and were too ashamed to admit u were wrong? Was it Stauros u saw there or xulon? Xulon is the word for wood

I can find Xulon on some sites, but there is no "credible" link to the word. Can you post a reference to an authoritative source? I do not buy everything I see online.
Have you looked up Xylon, though? I advise that you do. It will be of interest to you.

salvation101:
nope, its xulon.. Did u check those references nd didn't see xulon in d greek text

removetheturban:
Equivocation. I asked you to paste the scripture that you quoted so that we can check if it corresponded. This wasn't my question.

u must give reasons why the king of Israel didn't kill James on a tree or why Paul a custodian of the Law consented to the killing of Stephen wit stone? Why wasn't he handed on a tree or u mean pilate is honors d law more than the Jews .. And please site any other examples in scriptures whether old or new testament where one person was killed on the tree

As for the reference u asked of
,
Then the whole group stood up and led Jesus away to Pilate. They began to accuse Jesus and said to Pilate, “We caught this man trying to change the thinking of our people. He says we should not pay taxes to Caesar. He calls himself the Messiah, a king.” Pilate asked Jesus, “Are you the king of the Jews?” Jesus answered, “Yes, what you say is true.”
Luke 23:1‭-‬3 ERV

I have admitted to you that Xulon as a word is absent in my range of vocabulary. I have never had anything to do with that word. Nonetheless, I am advising you to peek into xYlon and see the difference. I mean comparing the two, Xulon doesn't even have a Wikipedia page as opposed to Xylon. There is a reason for that. It will help to advance your vendetta against the JW.

I usually post stuff here. If I find something new, I will tell you. I really do not know Xulon no shame. We all live and learn. Though, I am not assimilating the word yet until I dig into it. From the look of things, it appears like bogus.

salvation101:

Hehehehehehe. Contrary to ur belief, i am more open minded than u. Wen i made a mistake i was quick to admit it but u r shying away from urs cos u want to be correct..
Did u check those references to see if those words in d greek text are Stauros or xulon? Or u saw xulon and were too ashamed to admit u were wrong? Was it Stauros u saw there or xulon? Xulon is the word for wood

removetheturban:
I can find Xulon on some sites, but there is no "credible" link to the word. Can you post a reference to an authoritative source? I do not buy everything I see online.
Have you looked up Xylon, though? I advise that you do. It will be of interest to you.

u want to find out about xylon? Ok first of all tell me a reference where it is found in the greek newtestament den i will take it up from there

removetheturban:
I have admitted to you that Xulon as a word is absent in my range of vocabulary. I have never had anything to do with that word. Nonetheless, I am advising you to peek into xYlon and see the difference. I mean comparing the two, Xulon doesn't even have a Wikipedia page as opposed to Xylon. There is a reason for that. It will help to advance your vendetta against the JW.

I usually post stuff here. If I find something new, I will tell you. I really do not know Xulon no shame. We all live and learn. Though, I am not assimilating the word yet until I dig into it. From the look of things, it appears like bogus.

good. I av been learning over the course of our discussions too. Av u bothered to check the check the greek Bible to see the word in those references if its Stauros or xulon?i checked wiki for the word xylon like u suggested nd wat i saw was a local xylophone.. Do check those references in a Greek Bible nd confirm if the words translated as tree was Stauros or Xulon

I saw Your comments and I do not mean to skip them but I have other obligations that require my attention here. Concerning that word, to be honest with you, I will advise that you go with Xylon because I can drop '55' dollars on it. Believe me, it is the right Greek word choice. I have known it for decades. It is pretty easy to identify it from the English Alphabets.

I really do not know the Bible translation that you use. I cannot get a pin you onthat because you keep disassociating yourself with anyone that the bloodstain becomes visible. I really feel sorry for the 55 'educated' Puritans when you do that. LOL

But anyway, Xylon was used way lesser times (about 7 or so) than Stauros (about 40 or so). Most of the times the apostles preferred to use Stauros above Xylon.

Do Pentecostals wear the cross as an object of worship or as an idol?

salvation101:
good. I av been learning over the course of our discussions too. Av u bothered to check the check the greek Bible to see the word in those references if its Stauros or xulon?i checked wiki for the word xylon like u suggested nd wat i saw was a local xylophone.. Do check those references in a Greek Bible nd confirm if the words translated as tree was Stauros or Xulon

Xylon is found in about 7(I lost the exact number) places in the Bible. You quoted some. The point is not about if it appears in the Bible, but the controversy about the actual spelling. I am well aware that a single letter can change the meaning of a Greek word.

salvation101:
u want to find out about xylon? Ok first of all tell me a reference where it is found in the greek newtestament den i will take it up from there

salvation101:
u must give reasons why the king of Israel didn't kill James

Can you paraphrase this, maybe?

salvation101:
u must give reasons why Paul a custodian of the Law consented to the killing of Stephen wit stone?

The law permitted the stoning of fortune-tellers as in Leviticus 20:27. Stephen fell into that category to the blasphemers. Meanwhile, they weren't actually keeping the law. Jesus referred to them as hypocrites.

removetheturban:
I saw Your comments and I do not mean to skip them but I have other obligations that require my attention here. Concerning that word, to be honest with you, I will advise that you go with Xylon because I can drop '55' dollars on it. Believe me, it is the right Greek word choice. I have known it for decades. It is pretty easy to identify it from the English Alphabets.

I really do not know the Bible translation that you use. I cannot get a pin you onthat because you keep disassociating yourself with anyone that the bloodstain becomes visible. I really feel sorry for the 55 'educated' Puritans when you do that. LOL

But anyway, Xylon was used way lesser times (about 7 or so) than Stauros (about 40 or so). Most of the times the apostles preferred to use Stauros above Xylon.

Do Pentecostals wear the cross as an object of worship or as an idol?

Did u check the greek manuscript and saw the word xylon? Here in mine its xulon.. And the word is used to mean wood. In fact wen Jesus was arrested, we were told dat some of the temple servants came with sword and xulon (wood).. Dey definitely did come with trees

Can u make mention of any popular Nigerian pentecostal church dat u see its members wear cross? As far as i remember its d catholics or some orthodox churches dat do dat. For we the pentecostals, our Jesus is no more on the cross.. Our Jesus Christ is risen and reigns forevermore. Wen we think of Jesus we think about the "glorified" Christ.. The one who is Coming back to reign

removetheturban:
The law permitted the stoning of fortune-tellers as in Leviticus 20:27. Stephen fell into that category to the blasphemers. Meanwhile, they weren't actually keeping the law. Jesus referred to them as hypocrites.

but they also attempted to stone Jesus wen he read from the book of Isaiah to dem but he escaped , was Jesus also a fortune teller