http://www.mercifultruth.com/graham.htm (I have used a somewhat Graham-friendly site; there are many critical sites on the issue, naturally)

Well, Christianity and being a true believer--you know, I think there's the Body of Christ. This comes from all the Christian groups around the world, outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ. And I don't think that we're going to see a great sweeping revival, that will turn the whole world to Christ at any time. I think James answered that, the Apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said that God's purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name. And that's what God is doing today, He's calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think that they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven.

Above is part of a statement made by/attributed to Billy Graham which has been a bit controversial; however, I am quite comfortable with it because, in my view, it still acoords with Christ's statements "I am the Way. . ." and "Nobody comes to the Father except by Me . . ." I'd also like to point out that the last pope (I'm fairly sure the current one as well), the current Archbishop of Canterbury have made statements to the same/similar effect.


PS: this thread arose from a tangent on another thread  https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-414941.0.html

What is the CHRIST?What does that word mean?Does it point to a WHO or a WHAT?

I have my own opinion of what the word, "CHRIST" means, and based on that opinion, we are all part of the body of christ, everyone.

U can do better than your above two posts depicts

^^ Ofcourse i can do better by expounding further, but i will leave it at that, for now.

its better u display ur Christ given ability&see whether u wont get the accurate response to what u might have exhibited

I think I agree with Graham and the OP here, and here is something Jesus said

Mat 21:28  What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He came to the first and said, Son, go and work today in the vineyard.
Mat 21:29  And he answered, I will not; but afterward he changed his mind and went.
Mat 21:30  Then the man came to the second and said the same [thing]. And he replied, I will [go], sir; but he did not go.
Mat 21:31  Which of the two did the will of the father? They replied, The first one. Jesus said to them, Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the harlots will get into the kingdom of heaven before you.

So, I believe it is possible to do the will of God and be a member of the body of Christ even if one is a non-believer.

Unfortunately, there is a really thin line between the person of Christ and the message that he preached.

MANY people do not even know the distinction, and that's why we keep hearing words such as "that Israelite carpenter", and there are also many people who reject the message of Christ because they reject Christianity. There are however, many others who do not even know that they are strong adherents of the message of Christ, while they will adamantly say they are non-Christians!

In such an identification with the Christ, they have fulfilled a necessary pre-requisite for heaven, but they do not know this. Such will be in heaven, I believe.

What do you guys think about this?

The topic is total rubbish. Some Occultist who call Jesus Supreme Master are also among the Body of Christ right?

Wide and Great is the road that leads to Destruction, many go there.
Narrow and difficult is the way that leads to life and only a few will find it.

babaearly:

The topic is total rubbish. Some Occultist who call Jesus Supreme Master are also among the Body of Christ right?

Wide and Great is the road that leads to Destruction, many go there.
Narrow and difficult is the way that leads to life and only a few will find it.

Rather than calling it total rubbish, why not point out what is nonsensical about the post, if you believe so?

Nobody said occultists who call Jesus Supreme Master are among the Body of Christ.

Let me ask you, "What does it really mean to accept the gospel of Christ?"

Brilliant thread nice topic, I would sit back and enjoy.

I believe this thread is not in any way negating Christianity, but I believe it answers questions like

"what happens to those who are truly ignorant and never heard of Christ because they live in the Amazon jungle and nobody ever reached them? Would they go to hell?"

"What of new born babies who are relatively exhibiting rational inagency and they die?"

"What happens to one who heard of Christianity but he didn't quite understand the message before he died?"

and other such questions with which people decry Christianity; because I believe God can see each heart, and if Christ is essentially there, whether they know him or not, they will be deemed righteous and go to heaven.

This is at variance from those who knew of Christ essentially and yet denied anything to do with his Gospel (not necessarily Christianity. I believe the gospel of Christ is much more than, and far greater than, Christianity).

More well-advised comments, please! I may be erring here.

Yep, agreed InesQor.

A lady made one use of Genesis 18:25 that has always stuck with me. The passage says:

Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

Enigma:

Yep, agreed InesQor.

A lady made one use of Genesis 18:25 that has always stuck with me. The passage says:


Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

You're right, and Hmm. . . that verse is very interesting! God will always do right, He is the standard of right in himself.

---

The way I see it, God planted a seed called Christ from the very beginning of time, from the foundations of the world

Rev 13:8  And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

And this seed grew into a young plant with several branches but the solid stem stood in Israel, where Jesus was to be birthed.

There were many other branches extending in other directions, in some cases intertwining (this explains religious clashes of ancient times) but the stem was preserved until it matured into a full tree ready to give fruit (this is when Jesus was birthed).

This mature tree produced the fruit that is Christianity, i.e. the produce of the tree at its stage of maturity. The fact that the stage of maturity yielded the fruit does not mean that the bark is not also useful for its own purposes. It does not mean that the leaves (which have existed from the young tendril age of the tree) are not useful for their own purposes. It does not make them less worthy to be called a part of the towering tree.

Not only the fruit of a tree identifies it. Not only Christianity can adequately identify the gospel of Christ. It is the fruit of the maturity of the Gospel of Christ.

Act 14:16  In generations past He permitted all the nations to walk in their own ways;
Act 14:17  [size=14pt]Yet He did not neglect to leave some witness of Himself[/size], for He did you good and [showed you] kindness and gave you rains from heaven and fruitful seasons, satisfying your hearts with nourishment and happiness.

I believe the reason why the Old Testament is significant to the Christian is because Jesus came from amongst the Israelites, and that is the sturdy stem that became the axis of the mighty tree. But there are branches too, and it is the same life in that seed that courses through the whole tree, that courses through them too.

Just as the Jews had their activities recorded with their interactions with YHWH in the Old Testament, God also had other people in other parts of the world (the branches) of which he found faithful ones like he found Abraham faithful.

A good example is Job, who lived in the far east. I believe there were people like Job and Abraham in many various places. Abraham was the stem, the others were branches, but none was so insignificant with respect to the others that it could be ignored.

I hope my analogy is clear, it just came to me as I typed this response.

More comments welcome, please.

A good example is Job . . .

There are many examples in the Bible

Cornelius the centurion?

The Ethiopean eunuch?

The Good Samaritan?

ETA: the people in Acts who made the inscription "to an unknown God"?

Several examples in the old Testament i.e. pre physical manifestation of Jesus Christ

My view is that the answer to the OP statement lies in what creatures do in heaven and the requirements necessary to qualify for admission to heaven as well as conscious participation in the activities. If one wants to be a neurosurgeon, then one has to go to medical school to acquire basic medical skills and then undergo specialist training in neurosurgery. If he or she has succesfully acquired the requisite skills, then he or she is a neurosurgeon and can work as a neurosurgeon. The same is true for all professions or work. Now, can a child that is just born and dies shortly after birth be a neurosurgen? Can a person who at age  5 had an accident and slipped into coma become a neurosurgen? Can a medical student who got rusticated from the medical school due to poor results be a neurosurgen? Can a pilot who have not qualified as a neurosurgen become one? Even if by some irrational decision, these non nerosurgeons engage in brain surgery, then the outcome will be a disaster. What I am simply saying is that if righteousness, love, humility, purity etc are activities that creatures do in heaven, then they must acquire these abilities prior to admittance to heaven. Thus human beings cannot just go to heaven simply because, it apparently seems that they have no opportunity to learn and practice the will of God. Just like you cannot pass or fail a student because he did not sit for an exam. To pass or fail, the student must have the opportunity to sit for the exam and prove his or her competence or incompetence. Thus, if a baby dies in utero, where does he get the chance to learn and practice the  the will of God including the recongnition of Jesus? If a man is born with madness where does he get the chance to learn and practice the will of God? If a child slipped into coma, where is the chance for such a child to learn and practice the will of God etc.

m_nwankwo:

My view is that the answer to the OP statement lies in what creatures do in heaven and the requirements necessary to qualify for admission to heaven as well as conscious participation in the activities. If one wants to be a neurosurgeon, then one has to go to medical school to acquire basic medical skills and then undergo specialist training in neurosurgery. If he or she has succesfully acquired the requisite skills, then he or she is a neurosurgeon and can work as a neurosurgeon. The same is true for all professions or work. Now, can a child that is just born and dies shortly after birth be a neurosurgen? Can a person who at age  5 had an accident and slipped into coma become a neurosurgen? Can a medical student who got rusticated from the medical school due to poor results be a neurosurgen? Can a pilot who have not qualified as a neurosurgen become one? Even if by some irrational decision, these non nerosurgeons engage in brain surgery, then the outcome will be a disaster. What I am simply saying is that if righteousness, love, humility, purity etc are activities that creatures do in heaven, then they must acquire these abilities prior to admittance to heaven. Thus human beings cannot just go to heaven simply because, it apparently seems that they have no opportunity to learn and practice the will of God. Just like you cannot pass or fail a student because he did not sit for an exam. To pass or fail, the student must have the opportunity to sit for the exam and prove his or her competence or incompetence. Thus, if a baby dies in utero, where does he get the chance to learn and practice the  the will of God including the recongnition of Jesus? If a man is born with madness where does he get the chance to learn and practice the will of God? If a child slipped into coma, where is the chance for such a child to learn and practice the will of God etc. 

Greetings Mark,
I hear you, but you point depends on what you consider to be the state of the unborn, or newly born child.

In Islam it is believed that the child is born in the state of Fitra and only falls from this state due to influences from society, parents, environment etc.

The Taoists too believe that the baby before his head is fill with all sorts of concepts is in tune with Tao. It is environment that messes him up.

So what is it that separates us from God? Are we born with that separation or does it happen to us over the course of our lives.

Is the process of living really like a course of study that then makes us qualified to have communion with God? That would make older people with all their ideas and issues in a closer relationship to God than children. That would make rubbish of Jesus' words that unless one becomes like a little child one cannot see the kingdom of God.

Pastor AIO:

Greetings Mark,
I hear you, but you point depends on what you consider to be the state of the unborn, or newly born child.

In Islam it is believed that the child is born in the state of Fitra and only falls from this state due to influences from society, parents, environment etc.

The Taoists too believe that the baby before his head is fill with all sorts of concepts is in tune with Tao. It is environment that messes him up.

So what is it that separates us from God? Are we born with that separation or does it happen to us over the course of our lives.

Is the process of living really like a course of study that then makes us qualified to have communion with God? That would make older people with all their ideas and issues in a closer relationship to God than children. That would make rubbish of Jesus' words that unless one becomes like a little child one cannot see the kingdom of God.

Hi Pastor. Great to read from you. My perception of a new born child is that he or she is an "old" soul in a young body. The child was in existence before he was concieved and will be in existence after he dies. What separates us from God is when we engage in things in contradiction to the purpose for which God created us. The taoist and the islam view is only correct if it refers to the first incarnation of a soul, in that case the child at its first incarnation is pure and in tune with God. But the purpose for which God created man in my view is to be counscious of both himself and God. Such awarenes requires development and that is why God sent us into the worlds to unfold this counsciouness. A seed cannot become a tree without being planted in a soil, and recognition of God cannot come without experiencing. It is such experiencing through the several visible and invisible worlds of God that permits awareness of himself, the creations of God and finally the recognition of God. No, it should not be taken like a course of earthly study. What it means is that the soul already carry the talents, but talents without development remain only a potential and one does not have counscious existence in heaven by having potentials. A counscious existence in heaven comes with transforming the talents into abilities and such transformation is only possible through experiencing. Thus, the omniscience of God provides every soul with opportunities for experiencing. Thus, when we are all created, we are in tune with God but uncousciously. If we unfold our inherent talents, then we have a counscious attunement or connection to God, and that qualifies us to counsciously participate in the activities of heaven. IF however we remain uncounscious or develop our counsciousness in opposition to the purpose of God, then we loose that counsciouness and revert to the uncounsciouness.
No, it does not rubbish the word of the LORD because the words of Jesus in my perception refers to childlikeness and not to a child. Most normal children will have the quality of childlikeness but there are many children who do not possess it. Similarly a man of 100 years can be childlike while a child of 10 is not. Childlikeness simply refers to the ability of the spirit to be guided using the faculties of the spirit and not from the worlds or cloaks through which the spirt is experiencing. Only through the spirit can a connection to God be made and thus childlikeness is an effect indicating that such a spirit is in tune with God. To put it simply, childlikeness is the effect of submitting to the will of God. It is one of the qualities that are indispensible if one hopes to be admitted into the kingdom of God. The same is true of love, wisdom, purity, humility, compassion ,etc. Normal children are like that and that is why every spiritually normal child is strikingly truthful, even in what appears to be detrimental to him or her. As always stay blessed.

Enigma:

Yep, agreed InesQor.

A lady made one use of Genesis 18:25 that has always stuck with me. The passage says:

[size=14pt]Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?[/size]

Brilliant!

m_nwankwo:

My view is that the answer to the OP statement lies in what creatures do in heaven and the requirements necessary to qualify for admission to heaven as well as conscious participation in the activities. If one wants to be a neurosurgeon, then one has to go to medical school to acquire basic medical skills and then undergo specialist training in neurosurgery. If he or she has succesfully acquired the requisite skills, then he or she is a neurosurgeon and can work as a neurosurgeon. The same is true for all professions or work. Now, can a child that is just born and dies shortly after birth be a neurosurgen? Can a person who at age  5 had an accident and slipped into coma become a neurosurgen? Can a medical student who got rusticated from the medical school due to poor results be a neurosurgen? Can a pilot who have not qualified as a neurosurgen become one? Even if by some irrational decision, these non nerosurgeons engage in brain surgery, then the outcome will be a disaster. What I am simply saying is that if righteousness, love, humility, purity etc are activities that creatures do in heaven, then they must acquire these abilities prior to admittance to heaven. Thus human beings cannot just go to heaven simply because, it apparently seems that they have no opportunity to learn and practice the will of God. Just like you cannot pass or fail a student because he did not sit for an exam. To pass or fail, the student must have the opportunity to sit for the exam and prove his or her competence or incompetence. Thus, if a baby dies in utero, where does he get the chance to learn and practice the  the will of God including the recongnition of Jesus? If a man is born with madness where does he get the chance to learn and practice the will of God? If a child slipped into coma, where is the chance for such a child to learn and practice the will of God etc. 

Good day, M_Nwankwo, and thanks for your good perspectives.

It is quite evident that there is a lot of mis-representation and half truths that are generally accepted as christian doctrine. the sad truth is that the truth has been revealed to us in the bible however the clergy just picks and projects what they want from it with their own twisted interpretation of it. Any student of the teachings of Jesus would easily tell you that the greatest teaching of christ was LOVE, love for God an love for our fellow man, he fuerther went on to teach that love for God can only be demonstrated if we love our fellow man, this love must be pratical and not lip service like is very common in christianity today, Jesus further taught we should do unto others what we want them to do to us. The central point in all his teachings was love, his apsotles further emphasized and taught this love but sadly christianity today has departed from the core teachings of christ and replaced them with man made doctrines motivated by greed and selfishness rather than the selflessness Jesus taught. Jesus further taught that anyone who Loves has done his will and the will of the father this was a major criteria for being admitted into the kingdom of heaven. It is very sad today that most pastors are leading their flock away from the kingdom and if Jesus teachings are anything to go by a lot of people that don't profess christianity yet are doing the will of the father would make heaven before a lot of hypocrites who claim to be believers.

The passage below in Jesus own words lists the criteria for making heaven contrary to what popular pulpit preachers preach today.

Matthew 25:31-40:
The Final Judgment

  31 “But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit upon his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered in his presence, and he will separate the people as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will place the sheep at his right hand and the goats at his left.

  34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. 36 I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’

  37 “Then these righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing? 39 When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’

  40 “And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were doing it to me!’

MyJoe:


Good day, M_Nwankwo, and thanks for your good perspectives.

Good day to you too. Thanks for your kind words. Stay blessed.

the funny thing about christianity today is that it is all talk talk talk and no action. more serious souls are soul traveling today to the various heavens of God and enjoying the bliss of God in their daily life while going about their day quietly serving God and life without noise or fan fare. christians are waiting until they die before they enter into the kingdom of God but yet their bible says that the kingdom of God is here and now. and paul went on to say that he saw a man caught up to the 3rd heaven. no christian discusses these areas because they do not understand it. i can assure every one on NL that heaven is not owned by christians or by moslems or by any religion whatsoever. heaven is our home, where we came from. because of our immature nature God created the lower worlds and sent us down here to learn how to love. God also went further by sending more advanced souls as teachers to come and remind us about why we are here. those who will go back to heaven are those who have finished learning the lessons of love. whether you learnt it through jesus or mohammed or krishna or buddha is totally of no importance. what is important is that you must learn it or else you will keep on coming back to this school called earth through reincarnation to carry over your unfinished lessons.

InesQor:

Rather than calling it total rubbish, why not point out what is nonsensical about the post, if you believe so?

Nobody said occultists who call Jesus Supreme Master are among the Body of Christ.

Let me ask you, "What does it really mean to accept the gospel of Christ?"

I guess the stress should be on accept. Dont you think anyone that accepts the gospel of Christ accepts Christianity (whatever true Christianity there is)? Then what do you make of the Buddhist, and the Pagans? Are they Part of Christianity? Except you want to tell me Christianity, true Christianity i.e accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Personal Saviour is not the only Way, the narrow and difficult way that leads to eternal life and God? Buddhist and Pagans/Non-believers also have Jesus Christ?
Well it will be ok now to ask if you are a Christian so i know where to end this.

@InesQor

I dont want to sound over religious but i hope you get my point. I'm not used to writing tales.
If you are a true Christian then you can not under emphasize the importance of the Knowledge of Jesus Christ in a man's life. Are you also agreeing that the Buddhist and Non-believers like the Muslims understand the knowledge of Christ and the Gospel and about the Kingdom of God? If no is your answer which is an absolute yes, then no matter the long stories will you in your right senses say Moslems, Buddhists, Taoists, Pagans, etc as Non-believers are members of the body of Christ? Explain what you mean by members of the body of Christ.. They are members of a body, but is it t[i]he body of Christ?[/i]

benodic:

the funny thing about christianity today is that it is all talk talk talk and no action. more serious souls are soul traveling today to the various heavens of God and enjoying the bliss of God in their daily life while going about their day quietly serving God and life without noise or fan fare. christians are waiting until they die before they enter into the kingdom of God but yet their bible says that the kingdom of God is here and now. and paul went on to say that he saw a man caught up to the 3rd heaven. no christian discusses these areas because they do not understand it. i can assure every one on NL that heaven is not owned by christians or by moslems or by any religion whatsoever. heaven is our home, where we came from. because of our immature nature God created the lower worlds and sent us down here to learn how to love. God also went further by sending more advanced souls as teachers to come and remind us about why we are here. those who will go back to heaven are those who have finished learning the lessons of love. whether you learnt it through jesus or mohammed or krishna or buddha is totally of no importance. what is important is that you must learn it or else you will keep on coming back to this school called earth through reincarnation to carry over your unfinished lessons.

Many people will never know the meaning of Jesus Christ.

@m_nwankwo
I sense you are a mystic. who is Jesus Christ to you?

Many people will never know the meaning of Jesus Christ. i will rather re-phrase it this way : many Christians will never know the meaning of Jesus Christ . i can assure you that there are lots of souls out there who are quietly carrying out the mission of love. those ones are the ones really closer to the heart of God and Jesus because that is the message that Jesus brought to earth. i can also assure you that i do not need to go to a book in order to communicate with Jesus and to ask him anything i want to know about his life and ministry. unfortunately you Christians rely on a book not even written by Jesus and which is full of human errors from multiple translation.

@babaearly: You have shown your affinity for misunderstanding me, so I have nothing to say to you here. Take care!

InesQor:

@babaearly: You have shown your affinity for misunderstanding me, so I have nothing to say to you here. Take care!

Did i misunderstand you? No. Anyone will know i understand you perfectly well. I think you are the one trying to mislead us. Even if you didnt write anything at all to warrant my response, and i approached you with my questions which are the above posts, would you not give me a direct answer?

babaearly:

@InesQor

I dont want to sound over religious but i hope you get my point. I'm not used to writing tales.
If you are a true Christian then you can not under emphasize the importance of the Knowledge of Jesus Christ in a man's life. Are you also agreeing that the Buddhist and Non-believers like the Muslims understand the knowledge of Christ and the Gospel and about the Kingdom of God? If no is your answer which is an absolute yes, then no matter the long stories will you in your right senses say Moslems, Buddhists, Taoists, Pagans, etc as Non-believers are members of the body of Christ? Explain what you mean by members of the body of Christ.. They are members of a body, but is it t[i]he body of Christ?[/i]

babaearly:

I guess the stress should be on accept. Dont you think anyone that accepts the gospel of Christ accepts Christianity (whatever true Christianity there is)? Then what do you make of the Buddhist, and the Pagans? Are they Part of Christianity? Except you want to tell me Christianity, true Christianity i.e accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Personal Saviour is not the only Way, the narrow and difficult way that leads to eternal life and God? Buddhist and Pagans/Non-believers also have Jesus Christ?

Check it out. Maybe you've seen your faults and you kindly just dodge me.

@babaearly:

babaearly:

<snip> Maybe you've seen your faults and you kindly just dodge me.</snip>

Nice one. This is about no faults, because I have never claimed to know it all. In fact, I already said on this thread and elsewhere that "I may be erring". i.e. I may be in the wrong. I would not have asked for an invitation to correct me if I didn't want you to, but I didn't want to respond initially because I do not like having discussions with people who have made up their minds about me already, and that is what it looks like you have done. However, I will go ahead and respond. It's a long post, though. Sit tight!

---

babaearly:
I guess the stress should be on accept. Dont you think anyone that accepts the gospel of Christ accepts Christianity (whatever true Christianity there is)? Then what do you make of the Buddhist, and the Pagans? Are they Part of Christianity? Except you want to tell me Christianity, true Christianity i.e accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Personal Saviour is not the only Way, the narrow and difficult way that leads to eternal life and God? Buddhist and Pagans/Non-believers also have Jesus Christ?
Well it will be ok now to ask if you are a Christian so i know where to end this.

You said anyone who accepts the gospel of Christ accepts Christianity but that is not true. The converse is true, though. i.e. everyone who accepts Christianity has definitely accepted the gospel of Christ. For example, Mahatma Gandhi accepted the gospel of Christ but said he would have nothing to do with Christianity. I cannot speak for his eternal future, though, that's for God to decide.

Christianity is just an aspect of the Gospel of Christ, and Jesus is more concerned with your acceptance of His Gospel than of you being called a "little Christ" or "mock Christ" (that's what Christianity means) in word only. There are many people called Christians who will be shocked at the end of time. And there are many who live according to God's will and they are not Christians and will be shocked as well to find themselves rewarded.

The tricky part is that most times, vehemently rejecting the simple and rather harmless message of Christianity also shows a hardened heart that will not be able to yield lovingly to God in other respects. So, definitely most non-believers won't make it either. But then, many Christians won't make it as well.

---

Jesus said the road is really narrow and few find it. It's so narrow that it's an individual race! The road itself is the Christ, but we are not all on the same spot. Paul's experience on that road is not John's experience, and it's not yours, it's not mine.

On his return from the grave,
Mat 28:18  Jesus approached and, breaking the silence, said to them, All authority (all power of rule) in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
Mat 28:19  Go then and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20  [size=18pt]Teaching them to observe everything that I have commanded you[/size], and behold, I am with you all the days (perpetually, uniformly, and on every occasion), to the [very] close and consummation of the age. Amen (so let it be).

For the record, to my knowledge Jesus never said anything about "accepting him as Lord and Personal Saviour", but as the Way, Truth and Life and that nobody comes to the Father except by Him. Most of what Christian people practise today is what Paul taught, because Apostle Paul was really aggressive back in those days. It was Paul's own experience. That does not make it wrong, but I believe more exegesis ought to be given to Christ's teachings over Paul's teachings.

---

The question then is, WHAT are the things that Jesus had commanded the disciples to observe? What is the TRUE message of the Christ?

As for pre-requisites, He told Nicodemus "You must be born from above". What does it mean?
Joh 3:5  Jesus answered, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, unless a man is born of water and [even] the Spirit, he cannot [ever] enter the kingdom of God. [Ezek. 36:25-27.]
Joh 3:6 What is born of [from] the flesh is flesh [of the physical is physical]; and what is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7  Marvel not [do not be surprised, astonished] at My telling you, You must all be born anew (from above).
Joh 3:8  The wind blows (breathes) where it wills; and though you hear its sound, yet you neither know where it comes from nor where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.

The interesting thing is that Paul's teachings were fail-safe, and I adhere to them as well. They were fail-safe in that if a Christian follows them, he would most likely stay on the right path, because they were written by a man who had experienced God's power first-hand, and written TO people that he "pastored" over i.e his proteges. Even then, whatever Paul taught can only pale when compared to what Jesus Himself ever said!!!

[size=16pt]However, saying that those who don't follow those teachings of Paul would be in the wrong is like saying that whoever does not attend remedial classes for JAMB would definitely fail? 'Cos Paul was like a remedial coach, a lesson-teacher! [/size]

---

Joh 14:6  Jesus said to him, I am the Way and the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father except by (through) Me.

Coming through Jesus to the Father is like writing JAMB to gain admission to a Nigerian University.  Jesus was the embodiment of God in human form, and there are many who indeed serve him without even knowing Him. He did not establish any religion called "Christianity".

Rather, he taught us unconditional love, died for us and took away our sins and then sent us to teach the same to everyone else, but with the assistance of the Holy Spirit as our guide.

Do you see all those red phrases and words above? The red phrases above are not only indicating Christians, but EVERYBODY! Jesus sent everyone to proclaim his message, His Gospel, but not everyone is going. Some said they are Christians, but they are not going. Some said they will not go, but they are going all the same.

Mat 21:28  What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He came to the first and said, Son, go and work today in the vineyard.
Mat 21:29  And he answered, I will not; but afterward he changed his mind and went.
Mat 21:30  Then the man came to the second and said the same [thing]. And he replied, I will [go], sir; but he did not go.
Mat 21:31  Which of the two did the will of the father? They replied, The first one. Jesus said to them, Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the harlots will get into the kingdom of heaven before you.

He is more concerned with the going than the nomenclature called "Christianity". If you are a Christian and you did not go, you just wasted your time. Simple!

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Did you read what KunleOshob wrote on this thread? Let me quote him as he quotes the Bible in turn. See Christ talking about the final day.

Matthew 25:31-40:
The Final Judgment

   31 “But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit upon his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered in his presence, and he will separate the people as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will place the sheep at his right hand and the goats at his left.

   34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. 36 I was unclothed, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’

   37 “Then these righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or unclothed and give you clothing? 39 When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’

   40 “And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were doing it to me!’

We are often too bothered with words like "Body of Christ", "Christian", etc. when the real substance is still there! 

If you are a Christian (I guess you are), you better hold on to your own faith and not be bothered about how others are getting to heaven or not!

Let me leave you with something else that Jesus said about that. I quote the MESSAGE version for easy reading.

Mat 20:1  "God's kingdom is like an estate manager who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard.
Mat 20:2  They agreed on a wage of a dollar a day, and went to work.
Mat 20:3  "Later, about nine o'clock, the manager saw some other men hanging around the town square unemployed.
Mat 20:4 He told them to go to work in his vineyard and he would pay them a fair wage.
Mat 20:5  They went. "He did the same thing at noon, and again at three o'clock.
Mat 20:6  At five o'clock he went back and found still others standing around. He said, 'Why are you standing around all day doing nothing?
Mat 20:7  ' "They said, 'Because no one hired us.' "He told them to go to work in his vineyard.
Mat 20:8  "When the day's work was over, the owner of the vineyard instructed his foreman, 'Call the workers in and pay them their wages. Start with the last hired and go on to the first.'
Mat 20:9  "Those hired at five o'clock came up and were each given a dollar.
Mat 20:10  [size=18pt]When those who were hired first saw that, they assumed they would get far more[/size]. But they got the same, each of them one dollar.
Mat 20:11  Taking the dollar, they groused angrily to the manager,
Mat 20:12 '[size=20pt]These last workers put in only one easy hour, and you just made them equal to us, who slaved all day under a scorching sun[/size].'
Mat 20:13  "He replied to the one speaking for the rest, [size=20pt]'Friend, I haven't been unfair. We agreed on the wage of a dollar, didn't we?[/size]
Mat 20:14  So take it and go. I decided to give to the one who came last the same as you.
Mat 20:15  [size=18pt]Can't I do what I want with my own money?[/size] Are you going to get stingy because I am generous?'
[size=24pt]Mat 20:16  "Here it is again, the Great Reversal: many of the first ending up last, and the last first." [/size]

babaearly: God, it's not fair that I lived as a Christian and you are rewarding me the same way with these filthy guys? 

Meditate on those scriptures very well and see if it is your business how others get to heaven, or otherwise whether you were there when God was working his way into their hearts regardless of their worldview because they had a heart for Christ, or otherwise maybe you should only hold fast to the INDIVIDUAL agreement that you had with God in the name of Christianity, and run your own race.

If you have more to say, babaearly, I will return.

Good piece, InesQor. Also, Jesus said:

. . . whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother

(Matthew 12:50)


ETA and

Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

  (Matthew 7: 21-23)

Enigma:

Good piece, InesQor. Also, Jesus said:

. . . whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother

(Matthew 12:50)

True, bro! That one did not even come to mind very quickly. Thanks!!

God is more concerned with your heart's orientation than all these religions that people are bandying around. I am afraid for many Christians on the judgment day, they won't be condemned for their past sin (because it's all wiped away) but because they did not have a heart for Christ. 

Mat 20:16 "Here it is again, the Great Reversal: many of the first ending up last, and the last first."

P.S. Everybody, I apologize for the Large RED letters in my previous post. I was a little exasperated as I typed.

@InesQor
You are truely in the spirit.