Ken4Christ:


But the early Church did it at least on two recorded occasions - Acts 2:44-45& Acts 4:34-35.

We are all just not living up to the level of that grace otherwise this Is Jesus standard. It is far higher than tithe that most people are struggling to give.

Did the early church force anyone to sell his property? It was purely voluntary

PaChukwudi44:

Did the early church force anyone to sell his property? It was purely voluntary

But they acted on the instruction of Jesus as contained in Luke 12:33. Have you ever heard of people selling properties to help the poor untill Jesus came. It was Jesus doctrine on giving. When some of you are running away from 10%, Jesus says, give all.

Of course, nobody forces anyone to do anything or give. There is no where any Church even forces its members to pay tithe. Even salvation is not by force. You can go to hell if you choose to.

Ken4Christ:


But they acted on the instruction of Jesus as contained in Luke 12:33. Have you ever heard of people selling properties to help the poor untill Jesus came. It was Jesus doctrine on giving. When some of you are running away from 10%, Jesus says, give all.

Of course, nobody forces anyone to do anything or give. There is no where any Church even forces its members to pay tithe. Even salvation is not by force. You can go to hell if you choose to.

No one was told he was cursed unless he didor that he Will not be blessed by God or that he will go to hell for not participating.Furthernore not every member of the early church did sell their properties. The underlying thing behind it is freewill. BTW mind you the Bible did not say they sold everything they had.it said they sold their property and brought the money to the Apostle's feet

PaChukwudi44:

No one was told he was cursed unless he didor that he Will not be blessed by God or that he will go to hell for not participating.Furthernore not every member of the early church did sell their properties. The underlying thing behind it is freewill. BTW mind you the Bible did not say they sold everything they had.it said they sold their property and brought the money to the Apostle's feet

Yes, every member couldn't have sold their properties and they also may not have given all but it was a very good response. How many person can sell his land and ask that the money should be used to help the poor? They were big time givers and most people today are struggling with 10%.

If they could do that, do you think they couldn't have supported those who brought the Gospel to them with more than 10% of their income?

Ken4Christ:


Yes, every member couldn't have sold their properties and they also may not have given all but it was a very good response. How many person can sell his land and ask that the money should be used to help the poor? They were big time givers and most people today are struggling with 10%.

If they could do that, do you think they couldn't have supported those who brought the Gospel to them with more than 10% of their income?

the fact remains that they didn't preach tithing.The church shoulldn not because it needs money go ahead to manufacture doctrines outside the scriptures.If the church goes out of the way to make money then how can they reprimand sinners who do same?

PaChukwudi44:


the fact remains that they didn't preach tithing.The church shoulldn not because it needs money go ahead to manufacture doctrines outside the scriptures.If the church goes out of the way to make money then how can they reprimand sinners who do same?

We preach tithing because it is scriptural. If we decide to focus on what Jesus taught, do you think they will respond? Jesus teaching on giving is harder than tithing.

Ken4Christ:


We preach tithing because it is scriptural. If we decide to focus on what Jesus taught, do you think they will respond? Jesus teaching on giving is harder than tithing.

So you now know the scriptures more than the apostles who taught us? What exactly did Jesus teach that they will not respond? Anybody teaching another gospel other than what was preached by the apostles is an Antichrist. Go ahead and ask people to sell money and donate to the church but do not teach them God demands 10% of their income. That is not Christianity!!!!

PaChukwudi44:


So you now know the scriptures more than the apostles who taught us? What exactly did Jesus teach that they will not respond? Anybody teaching another gospel other than what was preached by the apostles is an Antichrist. Go ahead and ask people to sell money and donate to the church but do not teach them God demands 10% of their income. That is not Christianity!!!!

Apostle Paul did talk about tithe in Hebrews and he didn't condemn it. The early Church followed Jesus instructions on giving which places a bigger demand than tithe. So which one do you prefer? To remit 10% of your income or sell off your properties?

10% is a modest amount. You should even give much more. Abraham said tithe, Jacob paid tithe, the Jews under the law paid tithe. You see the consistency. It is in the kingdom. The Law of Moses has ended but the moral principle it teaches is upheld. That grace of God should spirit you to give more thank those under the Law of Moses.

Ken4Christ:


Apostle Paul did talk about tithe in Hebrews and he didn't condemn it. The early Church followed Jesus instructions on giving which places a bigger demand than tithe. So which one do you prefer? To remit 10% of your income or sell off your properties?

10% is a modest amount. You should even give much more. Abraham said tithe, Jacob paid tithe, the Jews under the law paid tithe. You see the consistency. It is in the kingdom. The Law of Moses has ended but the moral principle it teaches is upheld. That grace of God should spirit you to give more thank those under the Law of Moses.

First and foremost Apostle Paul did not write the letter to the Hebrews.Now to the koko,the writer of the epistle to the Hebrews mentioned tithing while comparing both the old and new testament and clearly stated that the old testament with its accompanying laws has been annulled.The writer to the Hebrews did not write anything about Christian paying tithes and definitely did not ask the Christians to pay tithes.

It says the old jewish law was faulty and had to be replaced.


For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said[b]:


“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.

9
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.

10
This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.

11
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.

12
For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”[c]

13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear

The most important reason why you should not pay tithes is that there is no good evidence that a God who needs 10% of your salary exists.

The stories of Abraham and Jacob paying tithes were inserted into Genesis by the priests to convince the Israelites to pay tithes to them.

The priests who asked Israelites to pay tithes on animals and crops to them were no better than pastors who demand monetary tithes today.

10% is a modest amount. You should even give much more. Abraham said tithe, Jacob paid tithe, the Jews under the law paid tithe. You see the consistency. It is in the kingdom. The Law of Moses has ended but the moral principle it teaches is upheld. That grace of God should spirit you to give more thank those under the Law of Moses

the scriptures clearly says in 1 cor 9:7 that Christians should be allowed to make up their minds on what to give.Whether it is 10% or more.It should be the responsibility of every Christian to decide what he has decided to offer to God.Do not impose 10% on anyone.As the scripture rightly said. "Obedience is better than sacrifice"

Seun:
The most important reason why you should not pay tithes is that there is no good evidence that a God who needs 10% of your salary exists.

The stories of Abraham and Jacob paying tithes were inserted into Genesis by the priests to convince the Israelites to pay tithes to them.

The priests who asked Israelites to pay tithes on animals and crops to them were no better than pastors who demand monetary tithes today.

Atheistic Seun in action.Nothing was actually inserted.Jacob and Abraham did pay tithes but it was clearly voluntary and there were not acting on any commandment to give 10%.They did this just once in their lives.There is no nrecord of Isaac or Joseph or anyother pre-mosaic law prophet paying tithes to God.

PaChukwudi44:
Atheistic Seun in action.Nothing was actually inserted.Jacob and Abraham did pay tithes but it was clearly voluntary

The story of Melchizedek is very fishy. He came from nowhere to collect Abraham's tithe, and was never heard from again. It's as if someone wanted the story to say that Abraham tithed, realised that there was no one he could tithe to, and invented Melchizedek just for this purpose.

As for the Jacob's vow to tithe, the writer avoided the need to create another Melchizedek by not explaining exactly how he paid the tithes.

Seun:

The story of Melchizedek is fishy. He came from nowhere to collect Abraham's tithes, and was never heard from again. Very convenient.

First, he didn't "come to collect", he came to bless Abraham. It was a willing gesture Abraham made in offering tithe to him.
So the fact, that he wasn't mentioned again in Genesis makes the story fishy? Come on, that's a little shallow now.
You should know, that if the writers of the scriptures were out to " scam" people as you often tend to insinuate, they'd be smart enough to proofread their writings for all the perceived "contradictions and faults" that you think those writings have. People who would come up with such a big scam as inventing a bible would be smart enough to omit "contradictions and inaccuracies"

Now, I have been where you are-not paying tithe. Now I tithe, and I can clearly see the difference. So your opinion on my tithing decision is not any more material than that of an illiterate who thinks education is a scam.

I should add that a god who needs 10% of your income truly may not exist as you've said. But you know just as I do that the LORD God Almighty, creator of the ends of the earth has forever been, and will forvever be, and he surely cannot need eveb a zillion percent of whatever you have. As you know, there's a scripture to that effect in the Bible.
Seun, please what do you consider to be the greatest tragedy a man can have. Well I'll tell you. it's either dying with no afterlife, or dying with an afterlife in hell. if the human life was only meant for this earth alone, it couldn't be worthwhile for me, even if the average lifespan was a thousand years. The only thing that adds meaning to my existence for me is the fact that it's eternal. How can one really live a life that ends forever in just a hundred years? it'd be too sad.

Seun:

The story of Melchizedek is very fishy. He came from nowhere to collect Abraham's tithes, and was never heard from again. It's as if someone wanted the story to say that Abraham tithed, realised that there was no one he could tithe to, and invented Melchizedek just for this purpose.

As for Jacob's vow to tithe, the rewriter avoided the need to create another Melchizedek by not explaining exactly how he paid the tithes.

in the absence of any other ancient or scriptural narrative contrary to the accounts of Genesis.I would chose to go with that account.Besides that accounts was narrated by Christian writers in subsequent scriptures.

Seun:

The story of Melchizedek is very fishy. He came from nowhere to collect Abraham's tithe, and was never heard from again. It's as if someone wanted the story to say that Abraham tithed, realised that there was no one he could tithe to, and invented Melchizedek just for this purpose.

As for the Jacob's vow to tithe, the rewriter avoided the need to create another Melchizedek by not explaining exactly how he paid the tithes.

wow!...bible is most likely the work of men.

I believers the method of leaving whatever people wanted to give didn't work. An average human is stingy and will not give anything if given an option.

I believe our Church fathers saw that such method of collections didn't work and they decided To adopt the 10% method which has been practiced. And, it is not a burdensome contribution for anyone who loves GOD.

My common sense argument is that it is the percentage recommended but GOD for the support of the Levites. And if the people of Old could do that without murmuring, why can't God's children under Grace do the same do a far more worthy cause?

Ken4Christ:
I believers the method of leaving whatever people wanted to give didn't work. An average human is stingy and will not give anything if given an option.

I believe our Church fathers saw that such method of collections didn't work and they decided To adopt the 10% method which has been practiced. And, it is not a burdensome contribution for anyone who loves GOD.

My common sense argument is that it is the percentage recommended but GOD for the support of the Levites. And if the people of Old could do that without murmuring, why can't God's children under Grace do the same do a far more worthy cause?

this is unscriptural bullshit!!!Personal opinions or sentiments should never become doctrine.Lets go by what the bible preaches.There is no how the church will collapse if people donate freely.Trust me it will never collapse.Even smaller social organisations with much fewer members survive from voluntary donations of their members let alone a church that has lots of members

PaChukwudi44:


this is unscriptural bullshit!!!Personal opinions or sentiments should never become doctrine.Lets go by what the bible preaches.There is no how the church will collapse if people donate freely.Trust me it will never collapse.Even smaller social organisations with much fewer members survive from voluntary donations of their members let alone a church that has lots of members

You can't call what was consistently practiced in the Bible bullshit. If tithing was the idea of the Church, then, you can smell fraud.

But I tell you that tithing does not even measure up to Jesus standard. Jesus wants you to give all. I have proven it several times.

To buttress my point. If you don't support tithing, you at least agree that the Apostles taught that ministers of the Gospel should be supported. What percent of your income are you committing to support ministers of the Gospel?

The early Church gave something on a weekly basis - 1st Corinthians 16:1-2.

What are you and all anti tithers giving to support ministers of the Gospel? Don't tell me that you are not aware You are supposed to give your support.

I believe all these attack against tithe is an opportunity to completely evade financial responsibility towards the things of the kingdom.

Ken4Christ:


You can't call what was consistently practiced in the Bible bullshit. If tithing was the idea of the Church, then, you can smell fraud.

But I tell you that tithing does not even measure up to Jesus standard. Jesus wants you to give all. I have proven it several times.

To buttress my point. If you don't support tithing, you at least agree that the Apostles taught that ministers of the Gospel should be supported. What percent of your income are you committing to support ministers of the Gospel?

The early Church gave something on a weekly basis - 1st Corinthians 16:1-2.

What are you and all anti tithers giving to support ministers of the Gospel? Don't tell me that you are not aware You are supposed to give your support.

I believe all these attack against tithe is an opportunity to completely evade financial responsibility towards the things of the kingdom.

Its bullshit because Christian tithing was never practised in the scriptures. Of course I contribute every week to my church to support my church activities and pastors

PaChukwudi44:

Its bullshit because Christian tithing was never practised in the scriptures. Of course I contribute every week to my church to support my church activities and pastors

People are getting blessed doing it. Keep your money if you don't want to tithe. Those who are tithing are not complaining.

Ken4Christ:
People Pastors are getting blessed doing it.

Fixed that for you.

The gospels say that Jesus said it is more “blessed” (beneficial) to give than to receive. This is not always true. It is generally true if you have more money than you need. In that case, giving the excess money becomes beneficial to you because it feels good to see your money change the lives of people who need and deserve it. Another type of beneficial giving is “strategic giving” - giving to people who might be willing and able to help you in the future.

Blindly dashing 10% of your income to a rich man who doesn’t even know your name, with no idea about how it will be spent, is just crazy.

Ken4Christ:


People are getting blessed doing it. Keep your money if you don't want to tithe. Those who are tithing are not complaining.

YOU THINK NON-TITHERS DONT GET BLESSED?

PaChukwudi44:


YOU THINK NON-TITHERS DONT GET BLESSED?

Non tither will get more blessed if they give more than the 10% and they will be less blessed if they give less. The more you give, the greater the blessing.

Seun:

Fixed that for you.

The gospels say that Jesus said it is more “blessed” (beneficial) to give than to receive. This is not always true. It is generally true if you have more money than you need. In that case, giving the excess money becomes beneficial to you because it feels good to see your money change the lives of people who need and deserve it. Another type of beneficial giving is “strategic giving” - giving to people who might be willing and able to help you in the future.

Blindly dashing 10% of your income to a rich man who doesn’t even know your name, with no idea about how it will be spent, is just crazy.

You can also give in your lack. The widow of Zerephath prepared her last meal for Elijah and she was greatly blessed.

Our Lord Jesus said we should give more to those who don't have the opportunity to pay us back. Think is the kingdom ways.