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Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Ubenedictus(m): 10:38pm On Jan 08, 2018 |
clearly it is getting to that time when I'll have to leave you with your doctrines of men. solite3: 1. and I can bet you'll define born again in the same definition invented by the Baptist around the 18th century. You just don't know enough to know you have been shortchanged and given the traditions of men. 2. you think a believer can walk in unrighteousness and the flesh and yet he will still be righteous and be in fellowship with God? this is what the Bible says. Galatians 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Ephesians 5:5 For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. such a person is neither in God nor will he inherit the kingdom. 3. so you are using the merits of Jesus as an excuse to not do good works, shame on whoever taught you this abomination. Jesus didn't die so you will not work anymore, he died that you may receive the grace to do work. your justification is to give you grace for works eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. 4. again you are confused about the righteousness received by grace, the righteousness we have is not the righteousness God has by nature and thus cannot sin, the righteousness we partake of is that righteousness by which God makes us righteous I.e grace, hence the believer sometimes sins |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Ubenedictus(m): 10:39pm On Jan 08, 2018 |
solite3:yeah, we are back to this... when you can't respond to the points raised you do this |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Ubenedictus(m): 10:48pm On Jan 08, 2018 |
solite3:I am even surprised you are accusing me of lacking comprehension. what do you think that parable is talking about? you think it is just about servants who were given some money to trade? sorry I am almost encouraged to call you shallow. that parable is almost self explanatory. Jesus is the master who leaves and give us graces for us to work with, he will come back again as judge and those who were profitable receive reward while the slothful is condemned. if you can't understand simple parable I wonder... 1 Like |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Nobody: 5:34pm On Jul 16, 2018 |
Ubenedictus: nowhere was it written that good works saved or preserved a person. you have a wrong gospel God don't give grace to work salvation but he himself did it any sinner who believed on the Jesus as his saviour is justified already. Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. A Christian is a new creature that made in the nature of Christ. 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Nobody: 6:31pm On Jul 16, 2018 |
Ubenedictus:the unprofitable servant does not represent those who are bornagain. those who are saved cannot be unprofitable just as those who are not saved can never be profitable. this is my submission. remain blessed |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Ubenedictus(m): 8:36pm On Jul 16, 2018 |
solite3:if it is impossible for the born again to be unprofitable then the several exaltation to good works found through out the new testament would be superfluous. Titus 3:14 Our people must also learn to engage in good deeds to meet pressing needs, so that they will not be unfruitful. it is good works that are fruits of faith and salvation, he who does not work in them is unfruitful and unprofitable and like that servant would not receive a reward. 2pt 1:6 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. it is these that makes a born again Christian to be called profitable not just a futile clinging to his status. |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Ubenedictus(m): 8:42pm On Jul 16, 2018 |
then read carefully, good works don't saved but they are the assured signs of faith and the justification for our election. solite3:2 pt 1 8 For if you possess these qualities and continue to grow in them, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever lacks these traits is nearsighted to the point of blindness, having forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. 10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you practice these things you will never stumble, |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Ubenedictus(m): 9:05pm On Jul 16, 2018 |
solite3:again you seem to lack understanding, we are justified by faith in the finished works of Jesus not by our deeds, all those passages agree with that. the 2nd point is that we are saved/justified for good works which God foreordained that we do. so you have been justified so as to perform good works. eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. A Christian is a new creature that made in the nature of Christ.the new creature was created for good works, if the new creature does not do his reason for creation he is a failed creature eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Nobody: 8:04am On Jul 17, 2018 |
Ubenedictus:good works a product of salvation not the other way round Titus 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. good works is profitable to men for acceptance not God it can also be a sign that a man is saved. Paul advice Christians to be rich in good works so that they can convince people of their testimony and when they fail they become unprofitable to men in their ministry. it has nothing to do with salvation. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Nobody: 11:41am On Jul 17, 2018 |
Ubenedictus:clinging to his status you say, knowing his identity as a born again believer reminds the Christian of whom God has made him to be and therefore lives out the life. Peter is addressing fruitfulness in knowledge of the Lord Jesus. he encourages Christians to grow more this is the only way to be fruitful he never mentioned good works but simply qualities. |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Nobody: 11:46am On Jul 17, 2018 |
Ubenedictus:don't worry there is nothing like a failed new creature it is either you are born again or you are not. all a born again believer does is to walk in his new nature. by the way good works is a natural thing for a born again because he had been created for that. |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Nobody: 11:49am On Jul 17, 2018 |
when it comes to salvation and preservation it is the work of God. every born again believer grow in the knowledge of Christ but the pace is different hence Peter said put all your effort. |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Ubenedictus(m): 1:59pm On Jul 17, 2018 |
solite3:there is something like a failed new creature according to the Bible. Hebrew 6:4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. 7 For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned. the Christian who has received grace but bears only thorns is worthless and will receive damnation... put simply a born again living in sin is very possible and the result is a failed born again, worthless and heading to be burnt. |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Ubenedictus(m): 2:05pm On Jul 17, 2018 |
solite3:oh salvation is without effort, but it certainly isn't preserved without effort, that is why the apostles warned For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Ubenedictus(m): 2:10pm On Jul 17, 2018 |
solite3: correct, he must know his identity as a son and live in that reality, that is correct theology, anything less is trouble. when I say good work in a believer, I mean everything, every effort by which a believer cooperates with grace, including godliness, self control, perseverance. |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Ubenedictus(m): 2:20pm On Jul 17, 2018 |
solite3: no dear, it seems you can't comprehend English, New International Version This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone. New Living Translation This is a trustworthy saying, and I want you to insist on these teachings so that all who trust in God will devote themselves to doing good. These teachings are good and beneficial for everyone. good work is good and profitable for all men, not just because men love to see good work but because God has foreordained us that we should do them. it is a sign that we are saved, it is a result of our salvation and those who do the opposite are suited to be burnt according to Hebrew 6. eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Nobody: 8:03pm On Jul 17, 2018 |
Ubenedictus:there is nothing like a failed born again a born again does not live in sin. 1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. Hebrew 6vs 4 is talking about people who reject Christ inspite of having every previledges of knowing him not a man who is born of God. |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Nobody: 8:20pm On Jul 17, 2018 |
Ubenedictus:mind you the new creature already has this but the admonition Peter gives is to increase in it. he can become unproductive in the knowledge of Christ but not lose his salvation the problem is he who lacks this things. he will lose his reward not salvation. A new creature is already complete in Christ. Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Nobody: 8:28pm On Jul 17, 2018 |
Ubenedictus:A believer living in the reality of his new life is like fish living in water or a smoker smoking his favourite cigarette. Do you even know what grace is? A believer does not cooperate with grace he lives and soar in grace. A born again has been perfected for ever he lives in the boldness of the reality of the finished work of Christ on the cross. |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Nobody: 8:39pm On Jul 17, 2018 |
Ubenedictus:do you know the meaning of God's workmanship created for Good works. it does not mean God expects good works from the believer but he made it into his DNA as a new creature. by the way nowhere did it say good works preserve. kind refer me to the verse where it says good works preserve the believer. good works is beneficial to everyone of cause, but it does not save anyone neither does it preserve the believer |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Gggg102(m): 6:45am On Jul 18, 2018 |
what I think is that works are a by-product of faith. works are evidence of faith. if faith does not produce work, then the faith is false. being born again according to Paul in his letter to romans means being dead to sin. if a person says he is born again but does not perform good works then he is not born again. a person can not live in sin and claim to be dead to sin. works is proof of faith. |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Nobody: 9:45am On Jul 18, 2018 |
Gggg102:you are correct anyone that hates his neighbor or cannot forgive does not know God. 1 John 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Ubenedictus(m): 10:20am On Jul 18, 2018 |
solite3:so what happens when the believer who has good works written in his DNA do not walk in such but instead in sin. |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Ubenedictus(m): 10:25am On Jul 18, 2018 |
solite3: then you must explain to the apostle why he thinks that one who is born again can be unfruitful and perish. Hebrew 6:4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. 7 For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned. |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Ubenedictus(m): 10:40am On Jul 18, 2018 |
solite3:so a believer who is unproductive will not lose salvation? that show you contradict the scriptures For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins. Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. you are saved yet the Bible says, you must confirm your election by good works and it is if we do these things that we should expect heaven. Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. the unprofitable guy gets thrown into outer darkness not heaven. so recap. solite3 say: the unprofitable guy goes to heaven Jesus says: Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. I follow Jesus not solite3 |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Ubenedictus(m): 10:52am On Jul 18, 2018 |
solite3:no dear, the passage in Hebrew speaks of those who have been enlightened by the word and received the holy spirit, that is exactly the born again. Grace and living in sin does not coexist, you must chose one. either in grace or in sin. even the born again has the same choice, if he chooses sin then Hebrew 6 apply and the result is hell. |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Ubenedictus(m): 10:52am On Jul 18, 2018 |
Gggg102:so what about the born again who is really born again but has become unproductive and now in sin according to heb 6 |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Nobody: 11:09am On Jul 18, 2018 |
Ubenedictus:even if it is possible he will still be saved |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Nobody: 11:13am On Jul 18, 2018 |
Ubenedictus:did the apostle say he was bornagain? |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Ubenedictus(m): 11:15am On Jul 18, 2018 |
solite3:lastly, through out the thread I never said good works preserve salvation, in fact I remember saying the word preserve sounds too much, I said 1.it played a role in sanctification, 2.I explained that eternal life is both inheritance and reward, the person who disagreed later agreed lastly I have asserted that the unproductive Christian who lives in sin instead will not inherit eternal life. each of these cases I have expounded with scriptures. |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Nobody: 11:20am On Jul 18, 2018 |
Ubenedictus:read to context Peter said if you possess these qualities in increasing measure it will keep you from being unproductive in knowledge mathew25:30 is about a different issue entirely. |
Re: Saved By Grace But Preserved By Works. by Nobody: 11:22am On Jul 18, 2018 |
Ubenedictus:I can't remember where the apostle said confirm your salvation with good works is there any place show me? |
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