| The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by jesusjnr2020(m): 10:42pm On Apr 11, 2021 |
The Era Of The Law Was Also An Era Of Grace
Many Christians believe that God's grace came with Christ, but that's not biblically correct because God's grace was before the coming of Christ. Here's the proof of that:
Genesis 6:8 (KJV)
But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
Hence for Noah to find God's grace during that era meant that God's grace had been there at the time. It had always been there ever since man fell into sin in the beginning. But it was only the righteous that were able to find God's grace.
That's why Abel the first righteous man on Earth was able to find it and partake of it. Genesis 4:4, Matthew 23:35.
That's also why Noah was also able to partake of it. It was also because he was righteous.
Genesis 7:1 (KJV)
And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
At the time God said this about Noah, God had decided to destroy man from the Earth because he had filled the Earth with his wickedness.
Genesis 6:5-7 (KJV)
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
So God wanted to destroy man because of the gravity of man's wickedness, but Noah was found to be righteous in that same wicked generation.
Genesis 6:9 (KJV)
These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
And God said that it was because of Noah's righteousness that he was going to save his life and those of his family members in a generation that he wanted to destroy all men because of their wickedness.
That's how Job found grace in God's sight. It was because he was righteous.
And Jesus said:
Matthew 24:37 (KJV)
But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Therefore what happened in the days of Noah is exactly how the day of judgment would be.
All the wicked on Earth would be destroyed as it was in the days of Noah, but all the righteous would be saved because they would find grace in God's sight as righteous Noah did.
The only difference is that the destruction and salvation for the wicked and righteous respectively in this case would be for eternity.
So while righteous would have eternal life, the wicked would be eternally damned.
Matthew 13:41-43 (KJV)
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Jesus' Word is enough for the wise.
God bless. |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by jesusjnr2020(m): 11:05pm On Apr 11, 2021 |
So those workers of iniquity who think they can now partake of the grace of God because of Jesus, without turning away from their wicked ways, should think again because according to His own Words, no wicked would be saved by Him on that day!
God bless. |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by jesusjnr2020(m): 9:07am On Apr 12, 2021 |
It was by repentance which is the beginning of righteousness, that the people of Nineveh were able to find God's grace before the coming of Christ.
Jonah 3:10 (KJV)
And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
Hence they found grace in God sight after they turned away from their wicked ways.
Now this wasn't the people of God, Israel, to show that when it comes to God's requirement of righteousness, it applies to every nation, people, human on Earth, not just Israel who were called by God's name.
God bless. |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by Dtruthspeaker: 3:43pm On Apr 12, 2021 |
Supported! 1 Like |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by LisaAnneMia: 5:53pm On Apr 12, 2021 |
I'm sorry o, I just had to chook mouth  ...but wasn't Noah's time before the law of Moses was given? (Noah was in Genesis and the law was given in Exodus) And didn't Noah find grace before God called him righteous? (He found grace in Genesis 6:8 and God called him righteous in Genesis 7:1). Doesn't that mean when we receive His grace we'll be seen as righteous? And it was after he received God's grace that God directed Noah and told Him all he must do to save his life and family's life...oh and the animals too. And twas after he found grace in verse 8 that the Bible said he was perfect and just among his generations. So if the coming of Jesus will be like Noah's time, that means that those who received grace first like Noah and then became righteous in the sight of God (cos of the grace they received first), does it mean it's these set of people that'll make heaven? Pls explain. The hall of faith in Hebrews 11, it was by faith Abel became righteous, and it was also by faith Noah became the heir of righteousness in verse 7. I really don't mind explanations for all these  |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by jesusjnr2020(m): 9:07pm On Apr 12, 2021 |
|
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by jesusjnr2020(m): 9:31am On Apr 13, 2021 |
Only the righteous can find the grace of God. |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by MightySparrow: 10:06am On Apr 13, 2021 |
jesusjnr2020:
The Era Of The Law Was Also An Era Of Grace
Many Christians believe that God's grace came with Christ, but that's not biblically correct because God's grace was before the coming of Christ. Here's the proof of that:
Genesis 6:8 (KJV)
But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
Hence for Noah to find God's grace during that era meant that God's grace had been there at the time. It had always been there ever since man fell into sin in the beginning. But it was only the righteous that were able to find God's grace.
That's why Abel the first righteous man on Earth was able to find it and partake of it. Genesis 4:4, Matthew 23:35.
That's also why Noah was also able to partake of it. It was also because he was righteous.
Genesis 7:1 (KJV)
And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
At the time God said this about Noah, God had decided to destroy man from the Earth because he had filled the Earth with his wickedness.
Genesis 6:5-7 (KJV)
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
So God wanted to destroy man because of the gravity of man's wickedness, but Noah was found to be righteous in that same wicked generation.
Genesis 6:9 (KJV)
These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
And God said that it was because of Noah's righteousness that he was going to save his life and those of his family members in a generation that he wanted to destroy all men because of their wickedness.
That's how Job found grace in God's sight. It was because he was righteous.
And Jesus said:
Matthew 24:37 (KJV)
But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Therefore what happened in the days of Noah is exactly how the day of judgment would be.
All the wicked on Earth would be destroyed as it was in the days of Noah, but all the righteous would be saved because they would find grace in God's sight as righteous Noah did.
The only difference is that the destruction and salvation for the wicked and righteous respectively in this case would be for eternity.
So while righteous would have eternal life, the wicked would be eternally damned.
Matthew 13:41-43 (KJV)
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Jesus' Word is enough for the wise.
God bless. God bless you Sir. You are very correct. Grace is no commodity of any dispensations. This where many people miss it. However, there is the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. It makes the grace of God more of a global thing rather than the dealings of God with individuals, family, or tribe. And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.John 1:16. This why Paul emphasized the Grace or our Lord Jesus Christ. The marked difference between The OT.and NT 1 Like |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by jesusjnr2020(m): 8:41pm On Apr 13, 2021 |
|
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by jesusjnr2020(m): 8:50am On Apr 14, 2021 |
MightySparrow:
God bless you Sir.
You are very correct. Grace is no commodity of any dispensations. This where many people miss it. However, there is the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. It makes the grace of God more of a global thing rather than the dealings of God with individuals, family, or tribe.
And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
John 1:16.
This why Paul emphasized the Grace or our Lord Jesus Christ. The marked difference between The OT.and NT
True... The grace of Jesus Christ is different from the grace of the old testament. It's an upgraded version to the level of eternal life. Thanks and God bless. |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by MightySparrow: 2:06pm On Apr 14, 2021 |
LisaAnneMia:
I'm sorry o, I just had to chook mouth ...but wasn't Noah's time before the law of Moses was given? (Noah was in Genesis and the law was given in Exodus)
And didn't Noah find grace before God called him righteous? (He found grace in Genesis 6:8 and God called him righteous in Genesis 7:1). Doesn't that mean when we receive His grace we'll be seen as righteous? And it was after he received God's grace that God directed Noah and told Him all he must do to save his life and family's life...oh and the animals too.
And twas after he found grace in verse 8 that the Bible said he was perfect and just among his generations.
So if the coming of Jesus will be like Noah's time, that means that those who received grace first like Noah and then became righteous in the sight of God (cos of the grace they received first), does it mean it's these set of people that'll make heaven? Pls explain.
The hall of faith in Hebrews 11, it was by faith Abel became righteous, and it was also by faith Noah became the heir of righteousness in verse 7. I really don't mind explanations for all these Grace is an avenue provided by God for man to reach Him after the Fall. God located Abel, Seth( in his time men been to call on God), then Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Israel, then the whole world through Jesus. What is grace? Unmerited favour. That is the popular definition. Yes through. God took man as they are initially, then made.a covenant with Noah, then Abraham and Israeli. These are also Grace because God designed them to reach Him. What is the purpose of grace? 1. Reconciliation 2. Restoration 3. Riches 4. Revelation 5. Restitution 5. Resurrection ....And more as many things as lost in the Fall to bring man back to the original plan. The Law though a form of grace, is to make man know the gravity of sin committed. The grace of Jesus is like a cushion effect because the Law itself failed to bring man to perfection. If you are given to science, I would liken it to a resistor called`shunt` this resistor took about 99.9% of effect of current on the instrument. Don't mind me Someone else can explain to you better but the summary is in Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I was with Him on the cross spirituality to meet the needs of Justice. He bore the pain, but I the gains. So, Grace of the Lord Jesus could be given as an scronym: 1. God` s Reconciliation at Christ`s Expense 2. God`s Restitution at Christ`s Expense You could insert the test as re ∼ is to bring back.etc. I am so sorry, I am a bit lazy typing I would have loved to insert many scriptures. Somebody, please contribute to shed more light for this brother and me Al's to learn. Thanks |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by Dtruthspeaker: 4:07pm On Apr 14, 2021 |
MightySparrow:
The Law though a form of grace, is to make man know the gravity of sin committed. The Law Shows,
1) the Gravity of an Offence/Sin
2) Dictates What an Offence/Sin
3) Dictates the Grounds for which there is No Offence/Sin
4) Dictates The-Fences (D'Fences) which can be Raised when Offence/Sin is Alleged or Occasioned!MightySparrow:
The grace of Jesus is like a cushion effect because the Law itself failed to bring man to perfection. It is Not The Law that Failed, it is the People who were Given The Law who Put it Aside and Covered it up.
Right from the very beginning, they never abided by The Law. Common Simple Law of Gather the Manna you need daily and Do Not Store it, They Disobeyed.
On the day before Sabbath, Take 2 portions of your daily intake and store, for no Manna will fall on the Sabbath, They still Disobeyed
So how could The Law be said to have Failed when No One has Used it?
Is it not when a thing is properly used that it can be reported that it has failed or that it did not work?
So how can you rightfully say that a thing which you and No one has ever Used, failed?Which is What and Why Christ brought it back and brought our Attention to it, Once Again! That The Law Condemns and The Law can Save us, which one do we want? "Behold I lay before you death and life" MightySparrow:
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
I was with Him on the cross spirituality to meet the needs of Justice. the He bore the pain, but I the gains. Great you said "to meet the needs of Just is" have you met the needs and requirements of Just is? Can the one who gives offence be set to have met the needs of Just is? Is it not that just is must be taken from him. That Statement from Lawyer Paul Above is for Only the innocent who have offended no one after learning from Christ that to give Offence renders them Condemnable. Thus, when they stop Offending After Coming to Christ, they can therefore Raise the-Fence of Christ for they Stopped Committing Offences, Exactly as a person who was trespassing, ceasing his trespass when he saw that he was trespassing! Which is different from a Trespasser who, knowing he was Trespassing, kept on Trespassing! |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by Dtruthspeaker: 4:36pm On Apr 14, 2021 |
LisaAnneMia:
I'm sorry o, I just had to chook mouth ...but wasn't Noah's time before the law of Moses was given? (Noah was in Genesis and the law was given in Exodus)
And didn't Noah find grace before God called him righteous? (He found grace in Genesis 6:8 and God called him righteous in Genesis 7:1). Doesn't that mean when we receive His grace we'll be seen as righteous? God is Good, thus Grace given to All Offenders BUT ONLY FOR THE PURPOSE OF PREVENTING THEM FROM COMMITTING FURTHER OFFENCES, AND NO MORE. WHEN AN OFFENDER FAILS TO STOP COMMITING OFFENCE HE SHALL BE JUDGED FOR ALL HIS OFFENCES!
HOWEVER, Grace is Also given to he who has done The Right and Good, which prevents him from being Prosecuted for Past Offences. But, when He Commits an Offence After Grace, He shall be Prosecuted and found Guilty! LisaAnneMia:
So if the coming of Jesus will be like Noah's time, that means that those who received grace first like Noah and then became righteous in the sight of God (cos of the grace they received first), does it mean it's these set of people that'll make heaven? Pls explain. You mean the Exclusive Kingdom of God not heaven, for heaven is with you and you go there frequently! So, to your question, the Day of The Lord (Judgement Day) is A day of Great Anger, but I think those who are Righteous are fist Separated here (what people call rapture) and they are not affected by the Plagues going on in the world. And by the Word of The Lord, "He who endures to the end shall obtain a Good Reward"! |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by Dtruthspeaker: 4:43pm On Apr 14, 2021 |
jesusjnr2020:
True... The grace of Jesus Christ is different from the grace of the old testament.
It's an upgraded version to the level of eternal life.
Thanks and God bless. Wrong! All Grace is from God Most High, Who is ONE and there is No Other, therefore, "One Grace" From the Same One God. Remember "He Changeth Not"! Therefore, His Grace can not Change and has not Changed and can never ever Change! And neither does any man have a right to Change It! 1 Like |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by Kobojunkiee: 5:55pm On Apr 14, 2021 |
MightySparrow:
Grace is an avenue provided by God for man to reach Him after the Fall. God located Abel, Seth( in his time men been to call on God), then Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Israel, then the whole world through Jesus.
What is grace? Unmerited favour. That is the popular definition. Yes through. God took man as they are initially, then made.a covenant with Noah, then Abraham and Israeli. These are also Grace because God designed them to reach Him.
What is the purpose of grace?
1. Reconciliation
2. Restoration
3. Riches
4. Revelation
5. Restitution
5. Resurrection Unmerited favor from a God who is not a God of favor where He is concerned? The doctrines and traditions of men are there to trap you in lies that have nothing to do with God.  God poured out His grace on all of mankind from the very begining... every human being you see is walking around today with the grace of God on them- no exception. However, the righteous men, have even greater grace given them from God, this again, from the very beginning. MightySparrow:
....And more as many things as lost in the Fall to bring man back to the original plan.
The Law though a form of grace, is to make man know the gravity of sin committed.
The grace of Jesus is like a cushion effect because the Law itself failed to bring man to perfection.
If you are given to science, I would liken it to a resistor called`shunt` this resistor took about 99.9% of effect of current on the instrument. According to you, the Law failed to bring man to perfection yet when Jesus Christ showed up as a New Law?
Matthew 11 vs 27-30 (ESV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
27. All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
28. Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
30. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
Again, according to you, the Law itself failed to bring men to perfection yet when Jesus Christ showed up, He declared that the New Law was not for those who were already made perfect by the Old Law but for the sinners instead?
Mark 2 vs 16-17 (ESV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
16. When some teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw Jesus eating with such bad people, they asked his followers, “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
17. When Jesus heard this, he said to them, “It is the sick people who need a doctor, not those who are healthy. I did not come to invite good(righteous/perfect/holy) people. I came to invite sinners.”
There were many Righteous men and women living in the time of Jesus Christ, and at least 6 of them are listed in the Gospels. Perfection/Righteousness was very much attainable through trust and obedience of the Old Covenant Law of Moses - God never said there was anything wrong with the Old Law, neither did Jesus Christ. Only God sent His New Law to ease the burden on those who felt the burden of the Old laws too heavy for them to bear - the poor and weary for example. MightySparrow:
Don't mind me Someone else can explain to you better but the summary is in Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I was with Him on the cross spirituality to meet the needs of Justice. He bore the pain, but I the gains. Gosh! This is why I discourage folks from reading the letters of Paul which were largely written to Christians of a Jewish background! Many of you don't realize the meaning behind the words he uses, but you wedge your very soul against what he wrote. it is ridiculous! MightySparrow:
So, Grace of the Lord Jesus could be given as an scronym:
1. God` s Reconciliation at Christ`s Expense
2. God`s Restitution at Christ`s Expense
You could insert the test as re ∼ is to bring back.etc.
I am so sorry, I am a bit lazy typing I would have loved to insert many scriptures.
Somebody, please contribute to shed more light for this brother and me Al's to learn.
Thanks What Jesus Christ brought to you was a different agreement /Law/Covenant for a different Kingdom- the Kingdom of God. The grace you have in Jesus Christ is differently designed for Jews(coming from the Old Covenant) and for Gentiles(born dead to God's Law)but it is the same grace(eternal life) for all in the Kingdom of God(Heaven or Hell) without the former requirement that one first become righteous in order to obtain it. Yes, eternal life existed to the righteous of Old... Abel, Abraham, Noah, etc., and even those of the Old Covenant. That is why God when He abolished generational curses in Ezekiel 18, redeclared that only the one who sins will die(perish in the grave). The righteous do not perish in their graves but live on eternally. This why Jesus Christ declared that Abraham, Isaac, and the others were not dead(did not perish in their graves) but are instead living, albeit sleeping in their graves. |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by Kobojunkiee: 6:32pm On Apr 14, 2021 |
LisaAnneMia:
I'm sorry o, I just had to chook mouth ...but wasn't Noah's time before the law of Moses was given? (Noah was in Genesis and the law was given in Exodus)
And didn't Noah find grace before God called him righteous? (He found grace in Genesis 6:8 and God called him righteous in Genesis 7:1). Doesn't that mean when we receive His grace we'll be seen as righteous? And it was after he received God's grace that God directed Noah and told Him all he must do to save his life and family's life...oh and the animals too.And twas after he found grace in verse 8 that the Bible said he was perfect and just among his generations. God's grace, in the Old Testament was obtained by those who lived according to the commands, statutes, and rules of God.
Genesis 6 vs 1-8 (ESV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. The number of people on earth continued to increase. When these people had daughters,
2. the sons of God saw how beautiful they were. So they chose the women they wanted. They married them, and the women had their children.
3. Then the Lord said, “People are only human. I will not let my Spirit be troubled by them forever. I will let them live only 120 years.”[a]
4. During this time and also later, the Nephilim people lived in the land. They have been famous as powerful soldiers since ancient times.
5. The Lord saw that the people on the earth were very evil. He saw that they thought only about evil things all the time.
6. The Lord was sorry that he had made people on the earth. It made him very sad in his heart.
7. So the Lord said, “I will destroy all the people I created on the earth. I will destroy every person and every animal and everything that crawls on the earth. And I will destroy all the birds in the air, because I am sorry that I have made them.”
8. But Noah pleased the Lord.
9. This is the history of Noah’s family. He was a good(Righteous) man all his life, and he always followed God.
10. Noah had three sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
Noah was no exception to this. He was a Righteous man all of his life because he followed God. LisaAnneMia:
So if the coming of Jesus will be like Noah's time, that means that those who received grace first like Noah and then became righteous in the sight of God (cos of the grace they received first), does it mean it's these set of people that'll make heaven? Pls explain. I am sorry, what? The second coming of Jesus Christ is what is said will be like the coming of the floods like in the time of Noah.
Luke 17 vs 26-37 (ESV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
26. “When the Son of Man comes again, it will be the same as it was when Noah lived.
27. People were eating, drinking, and getting married even on the day when Noah entered the boat. Then the flood came and killed them all.
28. “It will be the same as during the time of Lot, when God destroyed Sodom. Those people were eating, drinking, buying, selling, planting, and building houses for themselves.
29. They were doing these things even on the day when Lot left town. Then fire and sulfur rained down from the sky and killed them all.
30. This is exactly how it will be when the Son of Man comes again.
31. “On that day if a man is on his roof, he will not have time to go inside and get his things. If a man is in the field, he cannot go back home. 32. Remember what happened to Lot’s wife[c]!
33. “Whoever tries to keep the life they have will lose it. But whoever gives up their life will save it.
34. That night there may be two people sleeping in one room. One will be taken and the other will be left.
35. There may be two women working together. One will be taken and the other will be left.”
36. [d]
37. The followers asked Jesus, “Where will this be, Lord?”
Jesus answered, “It’s like looking for a dead body—you will find it where the vultures are gathering above.”
Jesus Christ's statement, seen in the passage above, had nothing to do with God's righteousness and grace(eternal life) at the time of Noah. LisaAnneMia:
The hall of faith in Hebrews 11, it was by faith Abel became righteous, and it was also by faith Noah became the heir of righteousness in verse 7. I really don't mind explanations for all these Abel, we know, pleased God through His obedience, and was declared righteousness as a result. Noah followed God, all of His life - He lived in obedience to God all of his life, and was declared a righteous man by God as well. |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by jesusjnr2020(m): 6:38pm On Apr 14, 2021 |
Dtruthspeaker:
Wrong!
All Grace is from God Most High, Who is ONE and there is No Other, therefore, "One Grace" From the Same One God.
Remember "He Changeth Not"!
Therefore, His Grace can not Change and has not Changed and can never ever Change!
And neither does any man have a right to Change It! Stop arguing unnecessarily! Is the old testament not different from the new one? Is the new testament not better and greater than the old one? Does that mean it's not from the same God? It's from the same God but different versions! One is greater, better, more advanced than the other but from the same God! The name, Jesus, is used to distinguish the difference between the old and new versions not that it's not from the same God. Thanks and God bless. 1 Like |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by Mystery9(m): 6:43pm On Apr 14, 2021 |
Even the walk of Abraham with God was of grace |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by Kobojunkiee: 6:46pm On Apr 14, 2021 |
Mystery9:
Even the walk of Abraham with God was of grace Yes, Abraham received God's grace(eternal life), this as a result of His righteousness - he obeyed the commands, statutes and rules given him by God. |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by MightySparrow: 6:53pm On Apr 14, 2021 |
Kobojunkiee:
Unmerited favor from a God who is not a God of favor where He is concerned? The doctrines and traditions of men are there to trap you in lies that have nothing to do with God.
God poured out His grace on all of mankind from the very begining... every human being you see is walking around today with the grace of God on them- no exception. However, the righteous men, have even greater grace given them from God, this again, from the very beginning.
According to you, the Law failed to bring man to perfection yet when Jesus Christ showed up as a New Law?
Again, according to you, the Law itself failed to bring men to perfection yet when Jesus Christ showed up, He declared that the New Law was not for those who were already made perfect by the Old Law but for the sinners instead?
Gosh! This is why I discourage folks from reading the letters of Paul which were largely written to Christians of a Jewish background! Many of you don't realize the meaning behind the words he uses, but you wedge your very soul against what he wrote. it is ridiculous!
What Jesus Christ brought to you was a different agreement /Law/Covenant for a different Kingdom- the Kinngdom of God. The grace you have in Jesus Christ is differently designed for Jews(coming from the Old Covenant) and for Gentiles(born dead to God's Law)but it is the same grace(eternal life) for all in the Kingdom of God(Heaven or Hell) without the former requirement that one first become righteous in order to obtain it. For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Titus 2:11 Kobojunjie, this is the second time we will meet on a thread you criticize Paul. Anyways, there is nothing you can do about it. He was commissioned by Jesus Himself. Paul said all things he taught and wrote were from the Lord Himself. Gal. 1: 12 You are not more informed than the Paul. If you don't understand his writings why not give time to study? Even Peter, had respect for his writings. I don't think you know more than Peter who learned directly at the Master's feet. 16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 2Pet.1: 16 ∼ 17 and And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 2 Pet. 3: 15 ∼ 16. A times, your zealously show more or ignorance than knowledge. So, sister, learn. I am also a learner not a master. Anything I don't understand I take it as not understood yet. Bless you. |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by LisaAnneMia: 7:06pm On Apr 14, 2021 |
Kobojunkiee:
God's grace, in the Old Testament was obtained by those who lived according to the commands, statutes, and rules of God. Noah was no exception to this. He was a Righteous man all of his life because he followed God. Dtruthspeaker:
God is Good, thus Grace given to All Offenders BUT ONLY FOR THE PURPOSE OF PREVENTING THEM FROM COMMITTING FURTHER OFFENCES, AND NO MORE. One question to you two. The verse where Noah found grace, was it before he was referred to as righteous or after? |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by Kobojunkiee: 7:10pm On Apr 14, 2021 |
MightySparrow:
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Titus 2:11
Kobojunjie, this is the second time we will meet on a thread you criticize Paul. Anyways, there is nothing you can do about it. He was commissioned by Jesus Himself.
Paul said all things he taught and wrote were from the Lord Himself.
Gal. 1: 12 I am afraid you deceive yourself if you believe that I "criticize" Paul alone in this. I criticize every view expressed in Scripture that is against the declared commandments of God. You have chosen Paul as god to you and that is fine for you but don't for one minute think me as small-minded as you in this. As for the commissioned, according to Jesus Christ, everyone of His followers is commissioned to go preach His Gospel of the Kingdom of God to the World, not just to the Jews.
Matthew 28 vs 16-20 (ERV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
16. The eleven followers went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus told them to go.
17. On the mountain the followers saw Jesus. They worshiped him. But some of the followers did not believe that it was really Jesus.
18. So he came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth is given to me.
19. So go and make followers of all people in the world. Baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
20. Teach them to obey everything that I have told you to do. You can be sure that I will be with you always. I will continue with you until the end of time.”
MightySparrow:
You are not more informed than the Paul. If you don't understand his writings why not give time to study?
Even Peter, had respect for his writings. I don't think you know more than Peter who learned directly at the Master's feet.
16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
2Pet.1: 16 ∼ 17
and
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 2 Pet. 3: 15 ∼ 16. Peter's acknowledgment of Paul in His letter, does not serve as full endorsement of the views of Paul's letters that you should consider Peter a witness on behalf of all of the views expressed by Paul. According to the Law of 2 or 3 witness, by the accounts of 2 or 3 witnesses, shall a truth(not every truth) be established. And since Peter never in fact points to a particular "truth" of Paul's that he endorsed, I am afraid Peter's acknowlegdement of Paul in his letter amounts to nothing. Now, that you can get back to the topic MightySparrow:
Grace is an avenue provided by God for man to reach Him after the Fall. God located Abel, Seth( in his time men been to call on God), then Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Israel, then the whole world through Jesus.
What is grace? Unmerited favour. That is the popular definition. Yes through. God took man as they are initially, then made.a covenant with Noah, then Abraham and Israeli. These are also Grace because God designed them to reach Him.
What is the purpose of grace?
1. Reconciliation
2. Restoration
3. Riches
4. Revelation
5. Restitution
5. Resurrection Unmerited favor from a God who is not a God of favor where He is concerned? The doctrines and traditions of men are there to trap you in lies that have nothing to do with God. God poured out His grace on all of mankind from the very begining... every human being you see is walking around today with the grace of God on them- no exception. However, the righteous men, have even greater grace given them from God, this again, from the very beginning. MightySparrow:
....And more as many things as lost in the Fall to bring man back to the original plan.
The Law though a form of grace, is to make man know the gravity of sin committed.
The grace of Jesus is like a cushion effect because the Law itself failed to bring man to perfection.
If you are given to science, I would liken it to a resistor called`shunt` this resistor took about 99.9% of effect of current on the instrument. According to you, the Law failed to bring man to perfection yet when Jesus Christ showed up as a New Law?
Matthew 11 vs 27-30 (ESV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
27. All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
28. Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
30. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
Again, according to you, the Law itself failed to bring men to perfection yet when Jesus Christ showed up, He declared that the New Law was not for those who were already made perfect by the Old Law but for the sinners instead?
Mark 2 vs 16-17 (ESV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
16. When some teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw Jesus eating with such bad people, they asked his followers, “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
17. When Jesus heard this, he said to them, “It is the sick people who need a doctor, not those who are healthy. I did not come to invite good(righteous/perfect/holy) people. I came to invite sinners.”
There were many Righteous men and women living in the time of Jesus Christ, and at least 6 of them are listed in the Gospels. Perfection/Righteousness was very much attainable through trust and obedience of the Old Covenant Law of Moses - God never said there was anything wrong with the Old Law, neither did Jesus Christ. Only God sent His New Law to ease the burden on those who felt the burden of the Old laws too heavy for them to bear - the poor and weary for example. MightySparrow:
Don't mind me Someone else can explain to you better but the summary is in Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I was with Him on the cross spirituality to meet the needs of Justice. He bore the pain, but I the gains. Gosh! This is why I discourage folks from reading the letters of Paul which were largely written to Christians of a Jewish background! Many of you don't realize the meaning behind the words he uses, but you wedge your very soul against what he wrote. it is ridiculous! MightySparrow:
So, Grace of the Lord Jesus could be given as an scronym:
1. God` s Reconciliation at Christ`s Expense
2. God`s Restitution at Christ`s Expense
You could insert the test as re ∼ is to bring back.etc.
I am so sorry, I am a bit lazy typing I would have loved to insert many scriptures.
Somebody, please contribute to shed more light for this brother and me Al's to learn.
Thanks What Jesus Christ brought to you was a different agreement /Law/Covenant for a different Kingdom- the Kingdom of God. The grace you have in Jesus Christ is differently designed for Jews(coming from the Old Covenant) and for Gentiles(born dead to God's Law)but it is the same grace(eternal life) for all in the Kingdom of God(Heaven or Hell) without the former requirement that one first become righteous in order to obtain it. Yes, eternal life existed to the righteous of Old... Abel, Abraham, Noah, etc., and even those of the Old Covenant. That is why God when He abolished generational curses in Ezekiel 18, redeclared that only the one who sins will die(perish in the grave). The righteous do not perish in their graves but live on eternally. This why Jesus Christ declared that Abraham, Isaac, and the others were not dead(did not perish in their graves) but are instead living, albeit sleeping in their graves. |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by Kobojunkiee: 7:13pm On Apr 14, 2021 |
LisaAnneMia:
One question to you two. The verse where Noah found grace, was it before he was referred to as righteous or after? Pay attention....
Genesis 6 vs 1-10 (ESV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. The number of people on earth continued to increase. When these people had daughters,
2. the sons of God saw how beautiful they were. So they chose the women they wanted. They married them, and the women had their children.
3. Then the Lord said, “People are only human. I will not let my Spirit be troubled by them forever. I will let them live only 120 years.”[a]
4. During this time and also later, the Nephilim people lived in the land. They have been famous as powerful soldiers since ancient times.
5. The Lord saw that the people on the earth were very evil. He saw that they thought only about evil things all the time.
6. The Lord was sorry that he had made people on the earth. It made him very sad in his heart.
7. So the Lord said, “I will destroy all the people I created on the earth. I will destroy every person and every animal and everything that crawls on the earth. And I will destroy all the birds in the air, because I am sorry that I have made them.”
8. But Noah pleased the Lord.
9. This is the history of Noah’s family. He was a good(Righteous) man all his life, and he always followed God.
10. Noah had three sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
You are told that Noah served God ALL OF HIS LIFE...He was Righteous all of his life! God was pleased with him ... there is a why. :- |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by LisaAnneMia: 7:14pm On Apr 14, 2021 |
Kobojunkiee:
Pay attention....
You are told that Noah served God ALL OF HIS LIFE...He was Righteous all of his life! God was pleased with him ... there is a why. :- Just answer. Was it before or after? |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by LisaAnneMia: 7:18pm On Apr 14, 2021 |
MightySparrow:
Grace is an avenue provided by God for man to reach Him after the Fall. God located Abel, Seth( in his time men been to call on God), then Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Israel, then the whole world through Jesus.
What is grace? Unmerited favour. That is the popular definition. Yes through. God took man as they are initially, then made.a covenant with Noah, then Abraham and Israeli. These are also Grace because God designed them to reach Him.
What is the purpose of grace?
1. Reconciliation
2. Restoration
3. Riches
4. Revelation
5. Restitution
5. Resurrection
....And more as many things as lost in the Fall to bring man back to the original plan.
The Law though a form of grace, is to make man know the gravity of sin committed.
The grace of Jesus is like a cushion effect because the Law itself failed to bring man to perfection.
If you are given to science, I would liken it to a resistor called`shunt` this resistor took about 99.9% of effect of current on the instrument.
Don't mind me Someone else can explain to you better but the summary is in Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
I was with Him on the cross spirituality to meet the needs of Justice. He bore the pain, but I the gains.
So, Grace of the Lord Jesus could be given as an scronym:
1. God` s Reconciliation at Christ`s Expense
2. God`s Restitution at Christ`s Expense
You could insert the test as re ∼ is to bring back.etc.
I am so sorry, I am a bit lazy typing I would have loved to insert many scriptures.
Somebody, please contribute to shed more light for this brother and me Al's to learn.
Thanks
Lol I understand but I can't really talk more here...these people are not willing to hear anything about grace. I just had to put mouth cos he mentioned grace...well, except you create a thread for it and mention me. |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by Kobojunkiee: 7:24pm On Apr 14, 2021 |
LisaAnneMia:
Just answer. Was it before or after? Stop this pull-a-verse-out-of-context-to-get-my-truth game of yours... It does not where the contextual facts are concerned. Again, Pay attention....
Genesis 6 vs 1-10 (ESV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. The number of people on earth continued to increase. When these people had daughters,
2. the sons of God saw how beautiful they were. So they chose the women they wanted. They married them, and the women had their children.
3. Then the Lord said, “People are only human. I will not let my Spirit be troubled by them forever. I will let them live only 120 years.”[a]
4. During this time and also later, the Nephilim people lived in the land. They have been famous as powerful soldiers since ancient times.
5. The Lord saw that the people on the earth were very evil. He saw that they thought only about evil things all the time.
6. The Lord was sorry that he had made people on the earth. It made him very sad in his heart.
7. So the Lord said, “I will destroy all the people I created on the earth. I will destroy every person and every animal and everything that crawls on the earth. And I will destroy all the birds in the air, because I am sorry that I have made them.”
8. But Noah pleased the Lord.
9. This is the history of Noah’s family. He was a good(Righteous) man all his life, and he always followed God.
10. Noah had three sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
You are told that Noah served God ALL OF HIS LIFE...He was Righteous all of his life! God was pleased with him ... there is a why. :- |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by MightySparrow: 7:26pm On Apr 14, 2021 |
Kobojunkiee:
I am afraid you deceive yourself if you believe that I "criticize" Paul alone in this. I criticize every view expressed in Scripture that is against the declared commandments of God. You have chosen Paul as god to you and that is fine for you but don't for one minute think me as small-minded as you in this.
As for the commissioned, according to Jesus Christ, everyone of His followers is commissioned to go preach His Gospel of the Kingdom of God to the World, not just to the Jews.
Peter's acknowledgment of Paul in His letter, does not serve as full endorsement of the views of Paul's letters that you should consider Peter a witness on behalf of all of the views expressed by Paul. According to the Law of 2 or 3 witness, by the accounts of 2 or 3 witnesses, shall a truth(not every truth) be established. And since Peter never in fact points to a particular "truth" of Paul's that he endorsed, I am afraid Peter's acknowlegdement of Paul in his letter amounts to nothing.
Now, that you can get back to the topic
Unmerited favor from a God who is not a God of favor where He is concerned? The doctrines and traditions of men are there to trap you in lies that have nothing to do with God.
God poured out His grace on all of mankind from the very begining... every human being you see is walking around today with the grace of God on them- no exception. However, the righteous men, have even greater grace given them from God, this again, from the very beginning.
According to you, the Law failed to bring man to perfection yet when Jesus Christ showed up as a New Law?
Again, according to you, the Law itself failed to bring men to perfection yet when Jesus Christ showed up, He declared that the New Law was not for those who were already made perfect by the Old Law but for the sinners instead?
There were many Righteous men and women living in the time of Jesus Christ, and at least 6 of them are listed in the Gospels. Perfection/Righteousness was very much attainable through trust and obedience of the Old Covenant Law of Moses - God never said there was anything wrong with the Old Law, neither did Jesus Christ. Only God sent His New Law to ease the burden on those who felt the burden of the Old laws too heavy for them to bear - the poor and weary for example.
Gosh! This is why I discourage folks from reading the letters of Paul which were largely written to Christians of a Jewish background! Many of you don't realize the meaning behind the words he uses, but you wedge your very soul against what he wrote. it is ridiculous!
What Jesus Christ brought to you was a different agreement /Law/Covenant for a different Kingdom- the Kingdom of God. The grace you have in Jesus Christ is differently designed for Jews(coming from the Old Covenant) and for Gentiles(born dead to God's Law)but it is the same grace(eternal life) for all in the Kingdom of God(Heaven or Hell) without the former requirement that one first become righteous in order to obtain it.
Yes, eternal life existed to the righteous of Old... Abel, Abraham, Noah, etc., and even those of the Old Covenant. That is why God when He abolished generational curses in Ezekiel 18, redeclared that only the one who sins will die(perish in the grave). The righteous do not perish in their graves but live on eternally. This why Jesus Christ declared that Abraham, Isaac, and the others were not dead(did not perish in their graves) but are instead living, albeit sleeping in their graves. Go and study more sister. |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by Kobojunkiee: 7:45pm On Apr 14, 2021 |
MightySparrow:
Go and study more sister. Get back to me when you are able to stay on topic instead! |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by Dtruthspeaker: 8:03pm On Apr 14, 2021 |
LisaAnneMia:
One question to you two. The verse where Noah found grace, was it before he was referred to as righteous or after? Noah was First Righteous, Before he Obtained the Grace of God to Escape God's Anger!
Which is why verse 5 first lays the ground every man was wicked but Noah got God's Grace in verse 8.
Then verse 9 Explains Why Noah got God's Grace which is because he was a fair (just) man, perfect and walked with God which means he did what God wanted him to do 1 Like |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by LisaAnneMia: 8:18pm On Apr 14, 2021 |
Dtruthspeaker:
Noah was First Righteous, Before he Obtained the Grace of God to Escape God's Anger!
Which is why verse 5 first lays the ground every man was wicked but Noah got God's Grace in verse 8.
Then verse 9 Explains Why Noah got God's Grace which is because he was a fair (just) man, perfect and walked with God which means he did what God wanted him to do
You're using the second to explain the first. It's always the first that gives way to the second. That's why "first" is before "second". Don't twist the Bible to suit your belief. Let the Bible interpret the Bible. Grace came first. And then, cos he found grace in God's eyes, he was declared righteous. I really don't have anything more to say on this, else we'd be going round and round. |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by LisaAnneMia: 8:21pm On Apr 14, 2021 |
Kobojunkiee:
Stop this pull-a-verse-out-of-context-to-get-my-truth game of yours... It does not where the contextual facts are concerned.
Again, Pay attention....
You are told that Noah served God ALL OF HIS LIFE...He was Righteous all of his life! God was pleased with him ... there is a why. :- Just like I told the other guy, I'll tell you. Just cos the facts don't suit your belief doesn't make it false. Every number and story and alphabet have their meanings. The writer of Genesis purposely put grace before Noah was declared righteous. If you can't see that, then goodnight. Thank God anyone with Bible will see what came first. |
| Re: The Era Of The Law Was Also Era Of Grace: "But Noah Found Grace In God's Eyes" by Dtruthspeaker: 8:28pm On Apr 14, 2021 |
jesusjnr2020:
Stop arguing unnecessarily!
Is the old testament not different from the new one? Why are you Angry? What have I said that should draw your anger? Or is it because you perceive you are Wrong? Whenever I see A Wrong I Must Condemn it and of course ready to contend against it. There is Nothing like Old and New Testament rather it is a Re-Presentation and A Renewal of the Grace to Escape the Anger of The Lord, if man wants! God is Always the same and the same means Nothing about Him will change whether Goodness or Grace or Mercy or Law; None of them will ever change and they did not. So No man has a Right to Change what God has Clearly Said He will Never Change. jesusjnr2020:
Is the new testament not better and greater than the old one?
Does that mean it's not from the same God?
It's from the same God but different versions!
One is greater, better, more advanced than the other but from the same God!
No, Same Testament with the Only Difference being that the Present hearers No Longer knew what great things God has done, since Israel Put Away God's Grace of Law and did evil perpetually from the Beginning! And you all still do not appreciate it! jesusjnr2020:
The name, Jesus, is used to distinguish the difference between the old and new versions not that it's not from the same God.
Thanks and God bless.
The Name and Person Jesus Christ is A Greater Moses Plus Prophets (as Proven by the Transfiguration) Come Again to take us out of the Bondage of Death as Moses Did (And Moses and Law Are Inseparable for remember Moses was Lawyer being a Levite) and To Warn us of Impending Doom/Destruction as the Prophets Did Verily warn Isreal! |
