salvation101:
u are learned aren't you? Why don't you make ur own findings and proove anything i av said wrong about any of those ppl.. It will be more nobel than throwing cheap jabs

It's not about being learned,
It's about being factual
You should have done a thorough findings yourself before coming up that they are tithe payers. By that you would have a concrete reference to prove that it was tithe they payed

paxonel:

It's not about being learned,
It's about being factual
You should have done a thorough findings yourself before coming up that they are tithe payers. By that you would have a concrete reference to prove that it was tithe they payed

Just to make a simple research, u r too lazy to. But u are quick to make bogus unlearned claims just cos u think dey are popular. Christianity teaches diligence, i av little respect for lazy ppl dat y i seem to enjoy jw folks cos even though i don't agree with wat dey teach, dey are very diligent especially wen it comes to knowledge seeking.. Wikipedia and other online sources are there for u to research from but i guess u r too lazy

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Parsons_Crowell
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Colgate
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Rockefeller
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._G._LeTourneau

Since i knew d type of person i am dealing with, i understand dat sharing link alone won't be enough so i had to do d extra work of adding screenshot

@salvation101 thumbs up for your good work!!!

Don't mind some of these folks. Black man has serious issue. Like you rightly said, America has the highest number of Pentecostal churches in the world they are called the Evangelicals and majority of them believe in tithing. They are the ones that voted Trump in and I believe they have the highest voting population in the US.
There tradition of paying Tithe has dated back many decades ago.

Then for the men you quoted John. D Rockefeller was indeed a tithe payer. He founded Standard Oil which later after his death broke into bits of which Exxon Mobil and Chevron emerged today.

Evangelicals are known around the world to pay tithe. I read one report from Times magazine some years ago of how powerful and extremely wealthy they are and the article also highlighted they pay one tenth of there income to their Churches. Not only in America but in Countries Like Australia they are very influential, prominent among them is Hillsong Church, in that Church they have quite a number of CEO's of fortune 500 companies.

Then even Countries like Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, they have have huge significant population of very rich and highly influential Evangelical population.


You know sometimes I really laugh at some of our people. They don't know how influential the gospel of Christ is. In John 1 vs 14, the Bible quoted in Him was life and that life was the light of men. The light shines in Darkness and Darkness could not comprehend it. See the gospel of Christ carries economic well being with it. Let me give you 2 intances.

When the UK embraced the gospel, King James version of the bible was the first mass produced bible in the world, like 500years ago. Before that the bible was locked up in monasteries by Papalcy And Roman Catholics. If you were found with bible you were burnt by fire. That was why it took a monk Martin Luther to chanel the reformation. Now coming back to the UK, because of what they did, they received blessings from God and they originated industrial revolution which enabled them develop the steam engine therefore they built better ships which made them establish countries like US, Canada, Australia and gave rise to the British Empire. This fact was also highlighted by Sheikh Mohamed ruler of Dubai, in his book my vision, on how the Arabs lost the lead in the quest for development, when the British Invented the Industrial Revolution.

Then when the British were going down, then came the US, a Country that was built on serious foundational principles of the bible by their forefathers . 200years till today US is still the global leader. Even today the Anglo Saxons US UK still control major Finances of our today's modern world.


Why am I stating all this: it is only the ignorant ,blind person or someone that has no reverence for God that will come and be questioning tithe. People don't know that fearing God most times the effects is trans generational. It will affect your Children's children's children. That's why look at all those men that do not fear God and does wickedly how does there children end up. I come online and I see many young Nigerians with no fear of God speak terrible things against God's people, I am sorry for them because if some of them understand what will befall them they will fear God.


Look at Churches like living faith, Redeemed how massive they have become, and people will think it is Man that is doing it. Let me tell them some of this Churches will so much become very massively influential in coming years in the economy, in education etc. I knew when pentecostal started in Nigeria, they were maligned and laughed at as poor rats, but today what is happening. In coming years, there influence will grow much wider. Why? Because where ever the gospel is preached it carries light that grows more and more this comes with better life and economic well being and prosperity. Because Man and God no be mate at all.

djon78:
@salvation101 thumbs up for your good work!!!

Don't mind some of these folks. Black man has serious issue. Like you rightly said, America has the highest number of Pentecostal churches in the world they are called the Evangelicals and majority of them believe in tithing. They are the ones that voted Trump in and I believe they have the highest voting population in the US.
There tradition of paying Tithe has dated back many decades ago.

Then for the men you quoted John. D Rockefeller was indeed a tithe payer. He founded Standard Oil which later after his death broke into bits of which Exxon Mobil and Chevron emerged today.

Evangelicals are known around the world to pay tithe. I read one report from Times magazine some years ago of how powerful and extremely wealthy they are and the article also highlighted they pay one tenth of there income to their Churches. Not only in America but in Countries Like Australia they are very influential, prominent among them is Hillsong Church, in that Church they have quite a number of CEO's of fortune 500 companies.

Then even Countries like Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, they have have huge significant population of very rich and highly influential Evangelical population.


You know sometimes I really laugh at some of our people. They don't know how influential the gospel of Christ is. In John 1 vs 14, the Bible quoted in Him was life and that life was the light of men. The light shines in Darkness and Darkness could not comprehend it. See the gospel of Christ carries economic well being with it. Let me give you 2 intances.

When the UK embraced the gospel, King James version of the bible was the first mass produced bible in the world, like 500years ago. Before that the bible was locked up in monasteries by Papalcy And Roman Catholics. If you were found with bible you were burnt by fire. That was why it took a monk Martin Luther to chanel the reformation. Now coming back to the UK, because of what they did, they received blessings from God and they originated industrial revolution which enabled them develop the steam engine therefore they built better ships which made them establish countries like US, Canada, Australia and gave rise to the British Empire. This fact was also highlighted by Sheikh Mohamed ruler of Dubai, in his book my vision, on how the Arabs lost the lead in the quest for development, when the British Invented the Industrial Revolution.

Then when the British were going down, then came the US, a Country that was built on serious foundational principles of the bible by their forefathers . 200years till today US is still the global leader. Even today the Anglo Saxons US UK still control major Finances of our today's modern world.


Why am I stating all this: it is only the ignorant ,blind person or someone that has no reverence for God that will come and be questioning tithe. People don't know that fearing God most times the effects is trans generational. It will affect your Children's children's children. That's why look at all those men that do not fear God and does wickedly how does there children end up. I come online and I see many young Nigerians with no fear of God speak terrible things against God's people, I am sorry for them because if some of them understand what will befall them they will fear God.


Look at Churches like living faith, Redeemed how massive they have become, and people will think it is Man that is doing it. Let me tell them some of this Churches will so much become very massively influential in coming years in the economy, in education etc. I knew when pentecostal started in Nigeria, they were maligned and laughed at as poor rats, but today what is happening. In coming years, there influence will grow much wider. Why? Because where ever the gospel is preached it carries light that grows more and more this comes with better life and economic well being and prosperity. Because Man and God no be mate at all.

thanks for this comment. The problem with ppl in this part of the world is laziness. The need to start creating topics like this is to cause awareness because ignorance is really prevailing on Nairaland and people just accept opinions just because it seems popular instead of them to be noble like the Berean Christians who didn't just accept wat dey heard but went back to di their own findings(this is the foundation of solid conviction and unshakable faith).. Alot of Christians do not even know why they believe what they believe and that is why its easy for them to be swayed away by popular opinion. Dey will be quick to compare themselves with unbelievers instead of looking for faithful believers who are practicing the word and its working for them. Wherever the gospel is preached in truth, development will follow cos God is all encompassing. No one can convince me against paying tithe cos it has been working ever since i started practicing it and it in no way exempt me from helping someone in need. Please lets keep sharing vital informations like dis and help the weak jellyfish Christians who av no backbone. The misinformation on Nairaland is just too much

salvation101:
thanks for this comment. The problem with ppl in this part of the world is laziness. The need to start creating topics like this is to cause awareness because ignorance is really prevailing on Nairaland and people just accept opinions just because it seems popular instead of them to be noble like the Berean Christians who didn't just accept wat dey heard but went back to di their own findings(this is the foundation of solid conviction and unshakable faith).. Alot of Christians do not even know why they believe what they believe and that is why its easy for them to be swayed away by popular opinion. Dey will be quick to compare themselves with unbelievers instead of looking for faithful believers who are practicing the word and its working for them. Wherever the gospel is preached in truth, development will follow cos God is all encompassing. No one can convince me against paying tithe cos it has been working ever since i started practicing it and it in no way exempt me from helping someone in need. Please lets keep sharing vital informations like dis and help the weak jellyfish Christians who av no backbone. The misinformation on Nairaland is just too much

The level of ignorance I see is too much, that's why I only comment on posts that make sense. Most of those people they don't pay tithe, they still don't even help people. They don't know that those of us that pay, it is just the foundation, we still give to the needy and help other people.

djon78:
@salvation101 thumbs up for your good work!!!

Don't mind some of these folks. Black man has serious issue. Like you rightly said, America has the highest number of Pentecostal churches in the world they are called the Evangelicals and majority of them believe in tithing. They are the ones that voted Trump in and I believe they have the highest voting population in the US.
There tradition of paying Tithe has dated back many decades ago.

Then for the men you quoted John. D Rockefeller was indeed a tithe payer. He founded Standard Oil which later after his death broke into bits of which Exxon Mobil and Chevron emerged today.

Evangelicals are known around the world to pay tithe. I read one report from Times magazine some years ago of how powerful and extremely wealthy they are and the article also highlighted they pay one tenth of there income to their Churches. Not only in America but in Countries Like Australia they are very influential, prominent among them is Hillsong Church, in that Church they have quite a number of CEO's of fortune 500 companies.

Then even Countries like Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, they have have huge significant population of very rich and highly influential Evangelical population.


You know sometimes I really laugh at some of our people. They don't know how influential the gospel of Christ is. In John 1 vs 14, the Bible quoted in Him was life and that life was the light of men. The light shines in Darkness and Darkness could not comprehend it. See the gospel of Christ carries economic well being with it. Let me give you 2 intances.

When the UK embraced the gospel, King James version of the bible was the first mass produced bible in the world, like 500years ago. Before that the bible was locked up in monasteries by Papalcy And Roman Catholics. If you were found with bible you were burnt by fire. That was why it took a monk Martin Luther to chanel the reformation. Now coming back to the UK, because of what they did, they received blessings from God and they originated industrial revolution which enabled them develop the steam engine therefore they built better ships which made them establish countries like US, Canada, Australia and gave rise to the British Empire. This fact was also highlighted by Sheikh Mohamed ruler of Dubai, in his book my vision, on how the Arabs lost the lead in the quest for development, when the British Invented the Industrial Revolution.

Then when the British were going down, then came the US, a Country that was built on serious foundational principles of the bible by their forefathers . 200years till today US is still the global leader. Even today the Anglo Saxons US UK still control major Finances of our today's modern world.


Why am I stating all this: it is only the ignorant ,blind person or someone that has no reverence for God that will come and be questioning tithe. People don't know that fearing God most times the effects is trans generational. It will affect your Children's children's children. That's why look at all those men that do not fear God and does wickedly how does there children end up. I come online and I see many young Nigerians with no fear of God speak terrible things against God's people, I am sorry for them because if some of them understand what will befall them they will fear God.


Look at Churches like living faith, Redeemed how massive they have become, and people will think it is Man that is doing it. Let me tell them some of this Churches will so much become very massively influential in coming years in the economy, in education etc. I knew when pentecostal started in Nigeria, they were maligned and laughed at as poor rats, but today what is happening. In coming years, there influence will grow much wider. Why? Because where ever the gospel is preached it carries light that grows more and more this comes with better life and economic well being and prosperity. Because Man and God no be mate at all.

It's either your perversion of history is deliberate or your understanding of history is totally laughable. I don't even know where to start from addressing many of your absurd claims. For your mind, Evangelicals are the drivers of the US economy. Even Jewish people with their tiny population in the US have contributed far more. Even sillier is the UK claim, considering the UK is one of the most irreligious nations on the planet where the average citizen even if not an atheist shows little more than contempt for organized religion and sees Christianity more as a cultural identity than an actual professed faith. You think it's Nigeria here where every Pentecostal confronts you and invades your personal space in buses, markets, universities, street corners (there's a particular clown from Chosen that frequently disturbs my sleep from 5:00 AM many mornings till I leave the house for work) etc. Don't delude yourself. The Nigerian version of Pentecostalism has little in common with the initial Protestants (Lutherans, Anglicans/Episcopalians, Baptists, Methodists, even Mormons, Adventists etc). Ours is the modern money-driven perversion of the Christian faith that is reviled even by many American Christians. Joel Osteen for example is the kind of guy that would be seen by many Nigerian Pentecostal zombies as a figure to aspire to. He's widely reviled by many Americans as a charlatan and conman.

And churches like Redeemed and Winners are man made. There is nothing special that makes them a product of God himself. Nigeria being an impoverished nation is the easiest place to set up booming church businesses with themes about "breakthroughs" and "harvests" and "divine blessings" and blah blah, blah. Oyedepo would not have one private jet if he were based in the UK, talk more of 4. The UK authorities even hounded him and Ashimolowo out of the country for profiteering schemes that go contrary to tax-exempt non-profits. Your average Swede or Dane or Norwegian or Japanese has little time to pack like sardines in their millions in Redemption camp. It's not because we're the most righteous nation on earth (on the contrary, this is a rotten cesspit of corruption and evil). It's because Nigerians are the biggest desperados on earth who think divine providence will bring them wealth and health and prosperity. That Nigeria is the biggest exporter of pastors in the world is nothing to be proud of. In Western society and places like South Africa, we've become a laughingstock for it. Your society needs industry. It needs innovation. It needs development. It needs hospitals. It needs disease cure and prevention. It needs research. It needs schools. It doesn't need a Redeemed Church every 10 seconds you drive along a street. That is a dysfunctional society that no sane civilization needs to copy. Pentecostalism is a curse to this country.

salvation101:
thanks for this comment. The problem with ppl in this part of the world is laziness. The need to start creating topics like this is to cause awareness because ignorance is really prevailing on Nairaland and people just accept opinions just because it seems popular instead of them to be noble like the Berean Christians who didn't just accept wat dey heard but went back to di their own findings(this is the foundation of solid conviction and unshakable faith).. Alot of Christians do not even know why they believe what they believe and that is why its easy for them to be swayed away by popular opinion. Dey will be quick to compare themselves with unbelievers instead of looking for faithful believers who are practicing the word and its working for them. Wherever the gospel is preached in truth, development will follow cos God is all encompassing. No one can convince me against paying tithe cos it has been working ever since i started practicing it and it in no way exempt me from helping someone in need. Please lets keep sharing vital informations like dis and help the weak jellyfish Christians who av no backbone. The misinformation on Nairaland is just too much

All these and you still can''t justify why those con artists from the pulpit appropriated and perverted an ancient, alien Jewish custom for the greedy aims of extorting their flock. The ignorance is from those who see their Pastors as God. They are unquestioning and slavishly follow proclamations with no scrutiny and no rational attempts to hold their shepherds accountable.

Obi1kenobi:


All these and you still can''t justify why those con artists from the pulpit appropriated and perverted an ancient, alien Jewish custom for the greedy aims of extorting their flock. The ignorance is from those who see their Pastors as God. They are unquestioning and slavishly follow proclamations with no scrutiny and no rational attempts to hold their shepherds accountable.

the problem i av with i catholics is cos u refuse to heed the word of Christ to remove the log in ur eye before attempting to remove speck from another Christian. D last i checked, no Pentecostal goes to kneel before a man and call him father and ask him to forgive his sins... Guess those who worship men, angels and images? Dey are called catholics

salvation101:

Just to make a simple research, u r too lazy to. But u are quick to make bogus unlearned claims just cos u think dey are popular. Christianity teaches diligence, i av little respect for lazy ppl dat y i seem to enjoy jw folks cos even though i don't agree with wat dey teach, dey are very diligent especially wen it comes to knowledge seeking.. Wikipedia and other online sources are there for u to research from but i guess u r too lazy

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Parsons_Crowell
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Colgate
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Rockefeller
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._G._LeTourneau

Since i knew d type of person i am dealing with, i understand dat sharing link alone won't be enough so i had to do d extra work of adding screenshot

OK,
I thought your conclusion was that these men became wealthy simply because they paid tithe and gave to the work of God, that is why i requested for references to show it was because they paid tithe that's how they became wealthy.

You are on point anyway!

But the fact still remain that these men gave to the work of God beyond 10% of their wealth or income which is actually not tithing but giving.

Whether it was 10% or beyond 10% the money was used strictly to propagate the gospel and not to pay pastors monthly salary or fund pastors expensive flamboyant lifestyle of showcasing wealth, maintaining fleet of private jets and traveling to Dubai and around the world as practiced by today pastors.
Hence, freeze is on their neck.

paxonel:

OK,
I thought your conclusion was that these men became wealthy simply because they paid tithe and gave to the work of God, that is why i requested for references to show it was because they paid tithe that's how they became wealthy.

You are on point anyway!

But the fact still remain that these men gave to the work of God beyond 10% of their wealth or income which is actually not tithing but giving.

Whether it was 10% or beyond 10% the money was used strictly to propagate the gospel and not to pay pastors monthly salary or fund pastors expensive flamboyant lifestyle of showcasing wealth, maintaining fleet of private jets and traveling to Dubai and around the world as practiced by today pastors.
Hence, freeze is on their neck.

nope, u were trying to prove dat giving to the church doesn't make ppl wealthy. Christianity teaches diligence, God said he will bless the works of our hands.
The primary aim of every Christian is to expand see the word of God preached around the world. People gave for the gospel and free education to av been possible in dark Africa. God tests us with little things before committing bigger things to our hand, Jesus said u can't serve God and serve mammon at d same time. It simply means u can't serve God and be attached to ur possession at d same time. Wen opportunities come to give, you should be ready to give any thing to see the gospel break boundaries, the Bible says, its God dat give the power to get wealth.

Luke16:10-13
10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?
12 And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?
13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Obi1kenobi:


It's either your perversion of history is deliberate or your understanding of history is totally laughable. I don't even know where to start from addressing many of your absurd claims. For your mind, Evangelicals are the drivers of the US economy. Even Jewish people with their tiny population in the US have contributed far more. Even sillier is the UK claim, considering the UK is one of the most irreligious nations on the planet where the average citizen even if not an atheist shows little more than contempt for organized religion and sees Christianity more as a cultural identity than an actual professed faith. You think it's Nigeria here where every Pentecostal confronts you and invades your personal space in buses, markets, universities, street corners (there's a particular clown from Chosen that frequently disturbs my sleep from 5:00 AM many mornings till I leave the house for work) etc. Don't delude yourself. The Nigerian version of Pentecostalism has little in common with the initial Protestants (Lutherans, Anglicans/Episcopalians, Baptists, Methodists, even Mormons, Adventists etc). Ours is the modern money-driven perversion of the Christian faith that is reviled even by many American Christians. Joel Osteen for example is the kind of guy that would be seen by many Nigerian Pentecostal zombies as a figure to aspire to. He's widely reviled by many Americans as a charlatan and conman.

And churches like Redeemed and Winners are man made. There is nothing special that makes them a product of God himself. Nigeria being an impoverished nation is the easiest place to set up booming church businesses with themes about "breakthroughs" and "harvests" and "divine blessings" and blah blah, blah. Oyedepo would not have one private jet if he were based in the UK, talk more of 4. The UK authorities even hounded him and Ashimolowo out of the country for profiteering schemes that go contrary to tax-exempt non-profits. Your average Swede or Dane or Norwegian or Japanese has little time to pack like sardines in their millions in Redemption camp. It's not because we're the most righteous nation on earth (on the contrary, this is a rotten cesspit of corruption and evil). It's because Nigerians are the biggest desperados on earth who think divine providence will bring them wealth and health and prosperity. That Nigeria is the biggest exporter of pastors in the world is nothing to be proud of. In Western society and places like South Africa, we've become a laughingstock for it. Your society needs industry. It needs innovation. It needs development. It needs hospitals. It needs disease cure and prevention. It needs research. It needs schools. It doesn't need a Redeemed Church every 10 seconds you drive along a street. That is a dysfunctional society that no sane civilization needs to copy. Pentecostalism is a curse to this country.

My friend stop your ranting. Go through history the forefathers of UK, US and most western nations built their foundation on Christian biblical principles. This is the major success of their economic prosperity today. That is why they are ahead in development over every other races on earth. God blesses children because of the good seeds their children sowed. That is a major principle in the bible. But also when the Children sow bad seed, subsequent generations will reap the reward. So as present generations of western world has embraced everything vile, their coming generations will receive the reward.

I made a statement before pentecostal in Nigeria, were called church rats, but today have they not grown astronomical proportion. And I am telling you that most of you have not seen anything yet. Let me tell, I can with all assurance tell you that some of these pentecostal churches you see are the best run organisations in Nigeria. Better run than government and private sectors. Like I know some Pastors that are consultants to Lagos State Government in area of administration and sound management of polity. And Lagos Government to me is the only bit working and highly organised thing as far as Nigeria is concerned and I can say that because I have done business with them.

djon78:


My friend stop your ranting. Go through history the forefathers of UK, US and most western nations built their foundation on Christian biblical principles. This is the major success of their economic prosperity today. That is why they are ahead in development over every other races on earth. God blesses children because of the good seeds their children sowed. That is a major principle in the bible. But also when the Children sow bad seed, subsequent generations will reap the reward. So as present generations of western world has embraced everything vile, their coming generations will receive the reward.

The Greek intellectual tradition alone contributed a lot more to American and Western democracy and civilization that your fantasy Christian claims. There's a reason most government buildings (including legislature, judiciary and executive buildings) in the US copy Greek architecture. There's a reason an estimated 150,000 words in the English language are derived from Greek: everyday words like "philosophy", "democracy", "alpha", "alphabet" etc. A reason many inclined towards the arts and humanities still study philosophers like Plato, Aristotle and Socrates. Let's not even mention the Roman/Latin influence on British civilization. American democracy was founded on the principle of separation of church from state affairs. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and Thomas Paine, 4 of the most important founding fathers of America, were all Deists who questioned Christian dogma, the divinity or even historical existence of Christ, or even the notion of a personal God who was interested in the affairs of men. They were notably hostile to many of the religious fanatics that pervaded the American space at the time. I'd be here all day listing the greatest philosophers, scientists, inventors, entrepreneurs etc in the US who weren't Christians. Christianity didn't make Ancient Egypt. Or Persia. Or Mesopotamia. Or the Greeks. Or Romans. Or Ottomans. Or Chinese. Modern Western civilization borrowed heavily from preceding great civilizations. Stop listening to the historically illiterate nonsense they feed you in church. Christianity hasn't dragged Nigeria out of being one of the most wretched countries in the world.

I made a statement before pentecostal in Nigeria, were called church rats, but today have they not grown astronomical proportion. And I am telling you that most of you have not seen anything yet. Let me tell, I can with all assurance tell you that some of these pentecostal churches you see are the best run organisations in Nigeria. Better run than government and private sectors. Like I know some Pastors that are consultants to Lagos State Government in area of administration and sound management of polity. And Lagos Government to me is the only bit working and highly organised thing as far as Nigeria is concerned and I can say that because I have done business with them.

I don't remember any such time Pentecostals were called Church rats. Of course they've grown astronomically. Because a desperate land looking for personal miracles subscribed to comforting messages from con men assuring them of prosperity and divine blessings. Pentecostal churches aren't spreading like wildfire in Japan or China or Finland or Sweden or Switzerland. Their market is here and very fertile for exploitation. Why do you think ponzi schemes like MMM easily spread like wildfire in Nigeria?

salvation101:
the problem i av with i catholics is cos u refuse to heed the word of Christ to remove the log in ur eye before attempting to remove speck from another Christian. D last i checked, no Pentecostal goes to kneel before a man and call him father and ask him to forgive his sins... Guess those who worship men, angels and images? Dey are called catholics

Pentecostals worship their Pastors far more than Catholics revere their Priests. I can easily say this from experience of both worlds. Pentecostals are the ones that carry "touch not my anointed" for head like zombies. I remember in UNN how most of the students hated the chaplain of the school. I remember when my former Parish, Holy Family in Festac, hounded out a priest that liked embarrassing girls for "indecent dressing" and he was posted out of the church. You buy blessed handkerchiefs from your pastors etc. Just last month, videos circulated of people kneeling and worshiping Adeboye's empty chair in Redeemed. The way an average Winners member talks about Oyedepo is cult-like in devotion.

And no, Catholics don't ask their priests to "forgive their sins". A good number of things Catholics do is unbiblical but many of you Pentecostals either misrepresent and exaggerate them in your zealotry or you tell outright lies. The very beginning of a confession starts from you saying "bless me father, for I have sinned", but the forgiveness you ask for is from God. After narrating your confession, you're advised by the Priest and he might tell you to make certain prayers and ways to make restitution (depending on the gravity of what you confessed to). And I'm really not sure why you keep referring to me as a Catholic. I am not. I don't believe in the doctrines (or indeed any other doctrines). I simply find them far less exploitative and greedy than the Pentecostals.

salvation101:
nope, u were trying to prove dat giving to the church doesn't make ppl wealthy. Christianity teaches diligence, God said he will bless the works of our hands.
The primary aim of every Christian is to expand see the word of God preached around the world. People gave for the gospel and free education to av been possible in dark Africa. God tests us with little things before committing bigger things to our hand, Jesus said u can't serve God and serve mammon at d same time. It simply means u can't serve God and be attached to ur possession at d same time. Wen opportunities come to give, you should be ready to give any thing to see the gospel break boundaries, the Bible says, its God dat give the power to get wealth.

Luke16:10-13
10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?
12 And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?
13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

It's good you know this. I was expecting you Pentecostals to devote your time, money and resources to spreading the Gospel to places where it's needed most (like those serious missionaries of old), but all I see is people disturbing me everywhere I go in Lagos with a message I've heard a million times. I would have thought maybe places in Nigeria's North, Sudan, Niger, Chad etc are more in need of your charity than adding another private jet to Oyedepo's fleet or building another auditorium or expanding existing ones to accommodate more members and potential tithers. Is that how the Catholic or Anglican missionaries that arrived Nigeria conducted their outreach?

salvation101:
nope, u were trying to prove dat giving to the church doesn't make ppl wealthy. Christianity teaches diligence, God said he will bless the works of our hands.
The primary aim of every Christian is to expand see the word of God preached around the world. People gave for the gospel and free education to av been possible in dark Africa. God tests us with little things before committing bigger things to our hand, Jesus said u can't serve God and serve mammon at d same time. It simply means u can't serve God and be attached to ur possession at d same time. Wen opportunities come to give, you should be ready to give any thing to see the gospel break boundaries, the Bible says, its God dat give the power to get wealth.

Luke16:10-13
10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?
12 And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?
13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

So, from your own perspective do giving to the church make people wealthy?
Because, non of those articles points out that those wealthy men because wealthy simply because they gave.
Rather, they all emphasized that, these men started as employees and were giving the little from their earnings. As their income was growing they decided to increase the giving

Obi1kenobi:


The Greek intellectual tradition alone contributed a lot more to American and Western democracy and civilization that your fantasy Christian claims. There's a reason most government buildings (including legislature, judiciary and executive buildings) in the US copy Greek architecture. There's a reason an estimated 150,000 words in the English language are derived from Greek: everyday words like "philosophy", "democracy", "alpha", "alphabet" etc. A reason many inclined towards the arts and humanities still study philosophers like Plato, Aristotle and Socrates. Let's not even mention the Roman/Latin influence on British civilization. American democracy was founded on the principle of separation of church from state affairs. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and Thomas Paine, 4 of the most important founding fathers of America, were all Deists who questioned Christian dogma, the divinity or even historical existence of Christ, or even the notion of a personal God who was interested in the affairs of men. They were notably hostile to many of the religious fanatics that pervaded the American space at the time. I'd be here all day listing the greatest philosophers, scientists, inventors, entrepreneurs etc in the US who weren't Christians. Christianity didn't make Ancient Egypt. Or Persia. Or Mesopotamia. Or the Greeks. Or Romans. Or Ottomans. Or Chinese. Modern Western civilization borrowed heavily from preceding great civilizations. Stop listening to the historically illiterate nonsense they feed you in church. Christianity hasn't dragged Nigeria out of being one of the most wretched countries in the world.



I don't remember any such time Pentecostals were called Church rats. Of course they've grown astronomically. Because a desperate land looking for personal miracles subscribed to comforting messages from con men assuring them of prosperity and divine blessings. Pentecostal churches aren't spreading like wildfire in Japan or China or Finland or Sweden or Switzerland. Their market is here and very fertile for exploitation. Why do you think ponzi schemes like MMM easily spread like wildfire in Nigeria?

What the Greeks contributed was more of philosophy, they never contributed anything to science and technology. Even in Area of philosophy, Saul of Tarsus(st Paul) was one man that even overhauled a lot of Greek philosophy in the then world. He turned the then world upside down with his teachings and writings and those of other apostles on Christianity. Ditto it was his teachings that made the greatest superpower in the then world turn to Christianity, when Emperor Constantine of Rome converted to Christianity and it became the state religion birthing the Roman Catholic Church, and for more than 1500 Rome controlled the then world from the dark ages till the reformation started by Martin Luther, the pope was the defacto ruler, installing kings around then Europe . Even before Propheth Mohammed appeared on the scene 500 years after the rise of Roman Church.

Rome contributed more to our modern world than even the Greeks. Our years and days today were developed by the Romans. The Greeks did not even last as a super power, there greatest ruler was Alexander the great who even died at a very young age in his 30s while Rome ruled for 100s of years and they had sound structures and hierarchy of power. And there grip on power was firm. Even in modern day Europe in England and Spain, in there rural areas, they still have roads that were constructed by Romans Thousands of years ago still in existence. Rome had sound architects and scientists.

Even Islam contributed especially in the area of medicine, plagues like black death and other deadly plagues that were wiping out populations in Europe, Islamic Physicians developed a lot of medicines used in those times.

But since the existence of man on this earth there has nothing been like Western Civilization which it's foundations was on Judeo Chrstian teachings, which birthed Industrial Revolution. Developed things like the steam engine whcih enabled ships to travel long distant lands man couldn't do before. That's how the British discovered and possessed far away lands like Australia, New Zealand, Americas, Canada which even if you travel by Air are very long distant lands, and with the exception of US, Queen Elizabeth is still the Crown ruler of all these Countries I stated. It was industrial revolution that led to massive discoveries in science and technology where many men like Sir Isaac Newton, Micheal Faraday and many notable scientists were strictly bible believing men. Nothing has made added more value to mans and made his life more comfortable like inventions of science and technology and not philosophy, which has its foundation on western civilization and it's root on Judeo Christian Teachings.

Even today, the Anglo-Saxons US and UK are still the Major controllers of Finance in our today's world, Wall. Street New York and the City of London are the two biggest financial centres in the world with more than 60percent of global finance.

Even the Asians appeared late in the game, first the Japanese who started their industrialisation in the 1920s, which led them into alliance with the devilish war monger Adolf Hitler in the 1930s after they lost the 2nd world war to the allied forces went into massive industrialisation in the 1950s, later the Asian Tigers Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea joined the game in the 1980s while China joined the game late in the late 1990s.

And the next big thing to happen will be the industrialisation of Africa. It will take some decades but the seed are already being sown in the heart of young Africans. And some of the catalyst for these are some teachings by some of these pentecostal pastors, telling them never to look at where they are, but to tap deep within there inner self, tap into God given deposits within and impact their environment, not minding the challenges bedevilling them. And this with other things will change this our Continent for good

paxonel:

So, from your own perspective do giving to the church make people wealthy?
Because, non of those articles points out that those wealthy men because wealthy simply because they gave.
Rather, they all emphasized that, these men started as employees and were giving the little from their earnings. As their income was growing they decided to increase the giving

yeah giving to church and the work of God makes ppl wealthy. What do u give to God if u are sitting idel? Wen u work and honor ur God with ur substance for the propagation of the gospel, u will surely succeed in dat thing ur are doing and would never lack divine idea..

Obi1kenobi:


The Greek intellectual tradition alone contributed a lot more to American and Western democracy and civilization that your fantasy Christian claims. There's a reason most government buildings (including legislature, judiciary and executive buildings) in the US copy Greek architecture. There's a reason an estimated 150,000 words in the English language are derived from Greek: everyday words like "philosophy", "democracy", "alpha", "alphabet" etc. A reason many inclined towards the arts and humanities still study philosophers like Plato, Aristotle and Socrates. Let's not even mention the Roman/Latin influence on British civilization. American democracy was founded on the principle of separation of church from state affairs. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and Thomas Paine, 4 of the most important founding fathers of America, were all Deists who questioned Christian dogma, the divinity or even historical existence of Christ, or even the notion of a personal God who was interested in the affairs of men. They were notably hostile to many of the religious fanatics that pervaded the American space at the time. I'd be here all day listing the greatest philosophers, scientists, inventors, entrepreneurs etc in the US who weren't Christians. Christianity didn't make Ancient Egypt. Or Persia. Or Mesopotamia. Or the Greeks. Or Romans. Or Ottomans. Or Chinese. Modern Western civilization borrowed heavily from preceding great civilizations. Stop listening to the historically illiterate nonsense they feed you in church. Christianity hasn't dragged Nigeria out of being one of the most wretched countries in the world.



I don't remember any such time Pentecostals were called Church rats. Of course they've grown astronomically. Because a desperate land looking for personal miracles subscribed to comforting messages from con men assuring them of prosperity and divine blessings. Pentecostal churches aren't spreading like wildfire in Japan or China or Finland or Sweden or Switzerland. Their market is here and very fertile for exploitation. Why do you think ponzi schemes like MMM easily spread like wildfire in Nigeria?

Well no Christian will call Christianity fantasy.. As usual u are speaking the half truth which is worse than a blatant lie. Are u talking about the same Greeks whose empire fell to the Romans? Yes Greeks were very influential cos even during d Roman empire their language was wat was spoken in many parts of the world cos of their influence during their reign. Dey also had the University at Athens. The Greeks took pride in knowledge. Some of the first set of gentile Christians were greeks the Bible talks about nobel greek men and women believing the gospel. Do u know it was greek dat was the language spoken in Israel as at the time of Jesus Christ? The entire new testament books were written in Greek. U see u av been telling the half truth, dat dey were greeks, weren't dey longer Christians?
Christianity took root in the Roman empire under Emperor Constantine This made Roman Catholicism, soon after the Roman empire broke into bits and pieces.. The catholic church did d same later on but all over Europe, Christianity gained ground. The Queen or King of England usually have positions in the church of England and church was very influential in having the crown do its bidding at dat time, soon after d quest to expand empires began again and dat was how civilization came to the dark parts of the world. There was influx of ppl all over Europe to where we call America today. Pentecostalism started from Azusa Street in America. Do u even know dat the initial goal of setting ther best university in the world today (Havard) was for the purpose of training clergymen?

Obi1kenobi:


The Greek intellectual tradition alone contributed a lot more to American and Western democracy and civilization that your fantasy Christian claims. There's a reason most government buildings (including legislature, judiciary and executive buildings) in the US copy Greek architecture. There's a reason an estimated 150,000 words in the English language are derived from Greek: everyday words like "philosophy", "democracy", "alpha", "alphabet" etc. A reason many inclined towards the arts and humanities still study philosophers like Plato, Aristotle and Socrates. Let's not even mention the Roman/Latin influence on British civilization. American democracy was founded on the principle of separation of church from state affairs. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and Thomas Paine, 4 of the most important founding fathers of America, were all Deists who questioned Christian dogma, the divinity or even historical existence of Christ, or even the notion of a personal God who was interested in the affairs of men. They were notably hostile to many of the religious fanatics that pervaded the American space at the time. I'd be here all day listing the greatest philosophers, scientists, inventors, entrepreneurs etc in the US who weren't Christians. Christianity didn't make Ancient Egypt. Or Persia. Or Mesopotamia. Or the Greeks. Or Romans. Or Ottomans. Or Chinese. Modern Western civilization borrowed heavily from preceding great civilizations. Stop listening to the historically illiterate nonsense they feed you in church. Christianity hasn't dragged Nigeria out of being one of the most wretched countries in the world.



I don't remember any such time Pentecostals were called Church rats. Of course they've grown astronomically. Because a desperate land looking for personal miracles subscribed to comforting messages from con men assuring them of prosperity and divine blessings. Pentecostal churches aren't spreading like wildfire in Japan or China or Finland or Sweden or Switzerland. Their market is here and very fertile for exploitation. Why do you think ponzi schemes like MMM easily spread like wildfire in Nigeria?

really? U didn't know d time pentecostals used to worship under wooden building? U didn't know wen most pastors couldn't afford to wear suit?perhaps u were not in Nigeria den

obatoro:

May God bless you so much, I don't know why people tell lies with this so called CPA as if one has not done it before. As a Nigerian you will have to stay on the computer for 24 hrs a day and 7 days non stop to earn $200 a month on Cost Per Action stuff haba. Then, what time do you take to study.
I hate hearing all this lies from our youngsters.

because someone has tried it and didn't make upto $200 a month doesn't make it impossible.. and you don't necessarily have to be on your laptop to make $200 per month..

salvation101:
lol. I'll just take it dat u r a comedian

I've truly been blessed by your write-ups.

You are?