We Have The Issues Confused: The Real Trouble With Nigeria

I was discussing with my mother and this subject of autonomy for the tribes came up.
she said she was for it because the hausa/f ulani have robbed nigeria blind, and had been int he presidency for too long.
I told her the Yar adua is the first Hausa/Fulani president, and i think she has the issue confused

1. Presidency- Nigeria has only had 4 presidents. Nnamdi Azikiwe, Olusegun Obasanjo, Yar Adua and if you want to count in Goodluck Jonathan. The rest are military figureheads that imposed themselves of the will of the public claiming to aim for a restoration of democracy. Therefore you cannot out the military heads of state as 'the presidents' because they were in no way shape and form presidents as recognized by any constitution then and now. Besides most of them were christian middle belters. This list tells you something. though. We the people of nigeria are given the right to speak, tribe doesn't matter.

ABiola's victory crossed tribal lines, he was more popular in the southeast then in the west even. Obasanjo was more popular in the north then in the west and everyone seems to be unanimous about Goodluck Jonathan. I know as a fact that many nigerians in diaspora, of many tribes, at first supported yar adua because he had an education and declared his assets. Igbos only look for an Igbo leader when the leader in place doesn't give them a voice.
Yorubas, hausas, ect all do the same. Nigerians don't want a leader from their tribe. They want a leader that can lead. when able men and women are presnet, tribe becomes a memory. I'll tell you knmow an an Imo state Igbo that if Ohakim ran against Fahsola im voting for Fashola in a heart beat.

Nigerians want a leader and our country is abundant with leaders. When the people are allowed to speak we have selected very able men. Our two worst democratic presidents, Yar Adua and Obasanjo, were also the result of the most fraudulent elections, each one as bad at leading and their election was fraudulent. Nigerians are meritocracy by blood, all tribes and religions, and once we are allowed to speak we prove this.

LAgos, Awka Ibom, Calabar and Port are all results of nigerians respecting democracy and democracy respecting nigerians and as a result incredibly able bodied men have taken those states to the forefront of development in the african world.

I ask then, what is keeping us from speaking?

Is it the hausa keeping the igbo from speaking? No, the hausa are among the most disenfranchised if not the most disenfranchised people in the country. Are igbos keeping Ijaws from speaking? No, both groups are incredibly disenfranchised. Is there one group in nigeria that is suffering sins of the state that another group is not suffering?
No

We’re all victims of mismanagement, neopotism, corruption, and crime.

So then who is inflicting this on who?

The questions are best answered by looking at the fact that everyone in this country is a victim of such things, except the rich. The poor in nigeria have suffered it all, the rich in nigeria, regardless of tribe, don’t.

When money is stolen from my community it’s my local government chairmen and governor that do it, not a distant Hausa overlord of my imagination. When the same happens in distant Jigawa state it’s the doing of an autocrat of local origin.

Even the ‘oil wealth’ that is routinely stolen isn’t stole by Hausa’s for Hausa’s or by Yorubas for Yorubas. They are stolen by Hausa, Ijaw, Fulani, Yoruba and Igbo men that would steal the same money and oil from any part of the country if they found it there and squander it for themselves.


Nigerians, your enemy isn’t a man of another tribe with his cohorts across the river, it’s the elite of your own tribe with the mansion across the street.

I'll like to say, your inference was right, our problem is our leaders; but there is causality for that.

Before I say anything, add Shehu Shagari and Tafawa Balewa to the list of the Presidents and remove Zik from there because he was just like Michaëlle Jean we have here in Canada.

Like you mentioned, Abiola's victory crossed tribal lines but what happened, his ascendancy was thwarted by Babangida, a northerner. Nigerians were so frustrated by IBB’s reign that they wanted a leader and Abiola seemed the best option at the time, thus they voted for him. Moving away from Abiola, Nigerians faced the same situation after Abacha's reign and wanted a leader, they saw it in Alex Ekwueme, who at the time was the leading contender; but what happened, the northern military cabal didn't want it to happen because of fear of being probed and had to bring in Obansanjo, who was not even interested in running, and was made the President. The rest are history how OBJ helped institutionalise corruption in a civilian regime and his imposition of Yar’dua on Nigerians.

What does this tell you? Tribal politics will always and forever be a problem in Nigeria. Like I said before, some tribes prefer a devil from their tribe to an angel from another tribe couple with this virus called Federal Character that is killing us all where mediocrity is rewarded.

Correction from your post, Azikiwe was the first president, Taf Prime minister and that office doesn't exist anymore but would be more comparable to the head of senate like David Mark today.


anyways,you posted examples of military men keeping civilians from office, which is my point. In the military era the military wanted to solidify power for their own military cronies. corrupt yorubas middle belters fulanis ect, everyone but igbo due to history circumstance were in it together, but they weren't doing it for the sake or interest of the north, they were doing it for the sake and interest of themselves and their immediate friends and family.

but in your own examples, 2 men were expected to take the presidency, a yoruba, whom all nigerians supported, and an igbo whom most nigerians supported. None of these men could have reached their popularity playing a tribal game, they were national figures.


like Fashola today. If this man runs for the presidency north south east and west are behind him because we just want a good leader. It's when democracy is silenced that we get poor leadership and poor leadership makes everyone want to blame the poor leader ship on something, so they point to tribes when that's not the case.


there are igbo governors stealing from my very own igbo state, if Shagari is doing the same on a national level what sense does it make for me to make it a tribal issue?

^^ very sensible

This Ikengawo should be made a Nairaland moderator. We want moderators who like Nigeria and not those wanting a dissolution at the cost of war. If we can't be optimistic about Nigeria on a Nigerian forum where else can we show patriotism. (am scared of saying anything positive about Nigeria here)


Ikengawo like me is a true Nigerian to the core. Folks in Nigeria needs hope and not diaspora Nigerians (some left in the 80s) advising them to violently disintegrate. Kudos to you bro.

^^ WHO SAID DISSOLUTION HAS TO CAUSE WAR??

have u tried dissolution and seen war??

many countries have split peacefully

if people are not ready to clean up and civilise then they have to be cut loose!

Tippy Top:

This Ikengawo should be made a Nairaland moderator. We want moderators who like Nigeria and not those wanting a dissolution at the cost of war. If we can't be optimistic about Nigeria on a Nigerian forum where else can we show patriotism. (am scared of saying anything positive about Nigeria here)

Ikengawo like me is a true Nigerian to the core. Folks in Nigeria needs hope and not diaspora Nigerians (some left in the 80s) advising them to violently disintegrate. Kudos to you bro.

Of course, those who left in the 80's should have their citizenship revoked! Why? They killed 500 women and babies in Jos and they kept Yar'Adua incommunicado; not stopping there, they formed the very exciting and patriotic cabal; they have been stealing PHCN equipment so that the real Nigerians never have electricity and even trained boko haram and kala kato; they join the police and shoot real Nigerians like chickens; they also rig elections for Iwu.

I hate foolishness.

ayettymama:

^^
many countries have split peacefully

if people are not ready to clean up and civilise then they have to be cut loose!

As usual you are completely and utterly missing the point. Niigeria will never partition. So the question of  a so-called peaceful split does not even arise.

Tippy Top:

This Ikengawo should be made a Nairaland moderator. We want moderators who like Nigeria and not those wanting a dissolution at the cost of war. If we can't be optimistic about Nigeria on a Nigerian forum where else can we show patriotism. (am scared of saying anything positive about Nigeria here)


Ikengawo like me is a true Nigerian to the core. Folks in Nigeria needs hope and not diaspora Nigerians (some left in the 80s) advising them to violently disintegrate. Kudos to you bro.

Yeah right, because he tickles your ears you wish he was a moderator so that he can banish free speech.

We do not want Yes Men in Nigeria we want sensible men with seasoned views from both sides of the partition.

There are truths to be told and obviously those truths will sound offensive to some people, but hey that’s what makes debating very interesting!

@Ikengawo
Seems you are the one who has it all wrong.

How can you forget to mention Shehu Shagari in naming Nigeria's Presidents. It is also disingenous to not count military rulers, plus he was right about Tafawa Balewa. He was the real HOS. If we had a presidential system back then, that would have been Tafawa Balewa. Zik was simply like the Queen of England.

The biggest grouse I have with your post is this: who do you blame for the military rulers? Who are these Christian Middle-Belters you refer to - Aguiyi-Ironsi(6 months)/Gowon(9 years), Muritala (6 months),  Obasanjo(31/2 years), Buhari/Idiagbon(1 year & 9 months), Babangida (8 years), Shonekan (3 months)/Abacha (5+ years)/Abubakar(1 year)? What records are you looking at?

Please keep Abiola's name out of your reckoning - his election was annuled by Babangida and he was killed by Abiola Abacha. How was that a good thing?

Only Obasanjo has really ruled Nigeria outside the north, and we know how that happened too.

You said "We the people of nigeria are given the right to speak, tribe doesn't matter." and then refuse to count precisely those that have determined whether you get to speak or not for our entire history.

You must be trying to tell a joke!

Ikengawo:

Correction from your post, Azikiwe was the first president, Taf Prime minister and that office doesn't exist anymore but would be more comparable to the head of senate like David Mark today.


anyways,you posted examples of military men keeping civilians from office, which is my point. In the military era the military wanted to solidify power for their own military cronies. corrupt yorubas middle belters fulanis ect, everyone but igbo due to history circumstance were in it together, but they weren't doing it for the sake or interest of the north, they were doing it for the sake and interest of themselves and their immediate friends and family.

but in your own examples, 2 men were expected to take the presidency, a yoruba, whom all nigerians supported, and an igbo whom most nigerians supported. None of these men could have reached their popularity playing a tribal game, they were national figures.


like Fashola today. If this man runs for the presidency north south east and west are behind him because we just want a good leader. It's when democracy is silenced that we get poor leadership and poor leadership makes everyone want to blame the poor leader ship on something, so they point to tribes when that's not the case.


there are igbo governors stealing from my very own igbo state, if Shagari is doing the same on a national level what sense does it make for me to make it a tribal issue?

I think Ikengawo has a point d north can't just be d problem the presidency can't just b d problem Iwu can't just b d issue in our elections.

@ikengawo

I love your analysis. A lot of people might not see things that way coz they have clouded their eyes with sentiments.

Nigeria needs more detribalized people or else, we will keep looking back and never move forward.

@marvix
Nobody said the north is just the problem. It is true that a state, like Lagos is doing now, can go a long way without the Federal Govt, but only so far. The powers of the Fed. govt. in Nigeria is enormous - controlling electricity, the money, petroleum, the most important roads, etc.

However, whatever point Ikengawo made was premised on terrible errors - claiming that most of those that have ruled Nigeria were Christian Middle Belters - where did he get that? Conveniently leaving out Shehu Shagari and replacing the real head of government in the first republic, Tafawa Balewa, with the figure-head Zik, he claims that Yar'adua was Nigeria's first Hausa/Fulani President. Then to ruin his entire argument he also lost the military who has dominated Nigeria's rulership for almost 30 of 50 years.

When you make these kind of glaring errors you can't blame anyone if they ignore the rest of your post.

marvix:

I think Ikengawo has a point d north can't just be d problem the presidency can't just b d problem Iwu can't just b d issue in our elections.

Ikengawo

What you fail to talk about here is Geo-Politics and Balance of power in our 50years history. You can't sit on your computer and wish away close to 30years of our history.

All leaders whether Military or Civilian controlled the oil wells and by so doing 90% of the economy. And the ownership of Oil wells and Oil Business today and fall outs of most things in this country right now has traces to the military era.

So when you talk about balance of power and fairness in Nigeria's geopolitical history you can not deny 60% of our history never existed.

Ikengawo

Do some research on the % of the country's revenue the that is controlled by the FG relative to what % that is distributed to the 36 States and you will get the gist.

you people shouldn't debate someone under the pretense that the person doesn't know anything.
many of the 'northern' military heads of state were christian middle belters.
this is a fact, i'll find the list and post them.

im not wishing away anything. military heads of state weren't presidents. just like obama isn't a king and the queen of england isn't a prime minister, they're all totally seperate entities.

If the hausa Fulani are 'geting most of the oil money' as ppl imply why are their states in the worst condition and their standard of living the absolute worst in nigeria?
because they're not getting anything. Rich men that happen to be fulani are getting the oil money, just like rich men who happen to be yoruba and rich men who happen to be igbo.

oil isn't even a significant part of the nigerian GDP but accounts for almost all of the GNP, this tells you something.
No gourp or tirbe is stealing the money, they all are if you want to look at it in a tribal lens, but by all i men politicians from all corners of the country

also, the Queen of England IS the British HOS (Head of State)

I think you are paying too much attention to titles and semantics

The issue here is who was running the Country.

This is how you claimed Nnamdi Azikiwe was running Nigeria because he was President, while Tafawa Balewa was like Senate President because he was Prime Minister. This is plane wrong and Ill-informed.

Just do some research on this issues, you will realise that Zik was a ceremonial head. Just like Shimon Peres (Israeli President) is Ceremonial head; while Tafawa Balewa just like the current Prime Minister of Israel (Bibi Netanyahu) was running the country.

I understand your confusion because in some systems President is more powerful than Prime Minister while in others its the other way round.

But get aqainted with these issues before making much argument.

@Ikengawo
Seems you are the one who has it all wrong.

How can you forget to mention Shehu Shagari in naming Nigeria's Presidents Because he wasn't a President, he was a military dictator and the two entities are night and day. . It is also disingenous to not count military rulers, plus he was right about Tafawa Balewa. He was the real HOS. If we had a presidential system back then, that would have been Tafawa Balewa. Zik was simply like the Queen of England.

The biggest grouse I have with your post is this: who do you blame for the military rulers? Who are these Christian Middle-Belters you refer to - Aguiyi-Ironsi(6 months)/Gowon(9 years), Muritala (6 months), Obasanjo(31/2 years), Buhari/Idiagbon(1 year & 9 months), Babangida (8 years), Shonekan (3 months)/Abacha (5+ years)/Abubakar(1 year)? What records are you looking at?

Please keep Abiola's name out of your reckoning - his election was annuled by Babangida and he was killed by Abiola Abacha. How was that a good thing? you didn't read my post
Only Obasanjo has really ruled Nigeria outside the north, and we know how that happened too.
what is jonathan doing?
You said "We the people of nigeria are given the right to speak, tribe doesn't matter." and then refuse to count precisely those that have determined whether you get to speak or not for our entire history.

You must be trying to tell a joke!

-Military HOS's aren't presidents they're dictators, there's a HUGE difference
-the only presidents nigeria has ever had ate Zik, OBJ, Yaradua and Johathan
-You can't say the "hausa' are doing this or the "Igbo" are doing that cause when Abacha steals he didn't send 500 Niara to the bank accoutns of every northerner, he sent money to his private account in the west to be used by him and his children only, Im igbo, no corrupt igbo governor has ever given me money. he puts it in his account, so "igbos" aren't stealling the money, an igbo is stealing the money.

So, what is your point in separating these presidents out. Are you not trying to figure out who were responsible for governance in Nigeria? If that is your purpose then you are simply engaging in self-deceit by focusing on those who have been called "presidents".

Your mum may be too extreme in labeling Hausa/Fulanis in general, but she is right that they have produced most of those who ruled Nigeria since independence.

Ikengawo:

-Military HOS's aren't presidents they're dictators, there's a HUGE difference
-the only presidents nigeria has ever had ate Zik, OBJ, Yaradua and Johathan
-You can't say the "hausa' are doing this or the "Igbo" are doing that cause when Abacha steals he didn't send 500 Niara to the bank accoutns of every northerner, he sent money to his private account in the west to be used by him and his children only, Im igbo, no corrupt igbo governor has ever given me money. he puts it in his account, so "igbos" aren't stealling the money, an igbo is stealing the money.

My purpose is that a democratic and educated mind MUST know the difference and MUST take terms seriously. It takes awareness and discipline and im proud i have this. I specifically said that Nigeria has only had 4 presidents, im still right, a dictator is not a president. the same way i can say england has never had a president, because it hasn't. It doesn't mean im 'sorting' or being specific with terms, its just that anyone that knows democracy knows that these leaders take these titles for a reason and they have real meaning. President doesn't mean "any leader" and presidents aren't supposed to "rule". Im not trying to insult you but english is my first language, these words have a meaning to me that they might not for you but they meaning im giving them are the meanings they're supposed to have and it's important you not confuse them.

the 30 years of military rule is a period of dissary, though there were ppl 'in power' the country was basically in a shuffle to restore democracy so it was a 'pause' period for the country or a sleeping period. There were ppl in power, you can count them if you want but they weren't presidents and weren't recognized even by the constitutions of their time.

Its like in igbo land calling a Chief and Igwe. A Chief is not an Igwe. Even the Yoruba have their Alaafin, Ooni, Obas and Chiefs, they're not the same thing though they're all figure heads.

what you've got is pseudo-intelligence. The kind that make religious zealots cry instead of accepting the truth when their believes are shown to be nonsensical.

Enough said.

you showed my beliefs to be nonsensical?
lol, are you mad cause of the internet?

you showed my beliefs to be nonsensical? ===> Are you a religious zealot?
lol, are you mad cause of the internet? ===> And you are mad, why?

Ikengawo:

you showed my beliefs to be nonsensical? Are you a religious zealot?
lol, are you mad cause of the internet?

Overlooking the ongoing battle between the both of you, I have to say that I believe that there is an enormous amount of truth in this post's title, however, it should be modified a little, as it is the CURRENT problem in nigeria that has nothing to do with tribes. It was back in the 80s that tribalism and sectarianism were of a real threat to Nigeria. It was tribalism that led to the initial oppression of the East by both the Wesy and North, and the subsequent Igbo military coups, which was followed by a long series of northerner-led coups that, admittedly, played a humongous part in Nigeria's underdevelopment. However, democracy has done quite a lot for us, proof being the near doubling of the county's GDP (or was it GNP? :S) in 2006 (correct me if I'm wrong please). I believe that if the general Nigerian population remains hopeful, and if our government manages to iron out corruption from its reins, we might one day become the envy of our fellow African states, and, hopefully, the developing world.

& Ikengawo is right, we have only had about 4 presidents in the history of our nation, however, the presidents that preceded OBJ, along with the military dictators, were not capable of bettering the nation

--This coming from a Hausa teen

By reading all the rubbish on this thread it's not surprising why Nigeria is the way it is today.

Is it possible to put Nigeria on sale on eBay?

I will never see myself as Nigerian first. I will always be Igbo. I have been Igbo since the day I was born and I will never give that up to a nation that was create by our once colonial master. Niggeria will never be one.

@Ikengawo

Pls am convinced that mr.ikengawo is not an igboman as he claim to be. he is using the user name to confuse himself not us. look mr.ikengawo there is something you can't deny. how can u continually denyin shagari not been Nigeria civilian president and tafawa belewa not been Nigeria HOS,

Mr.Ikengawo is an Hausa Fulani man. his post is just one of Hausa/Fulani confusion post to make us belief they aren't our problem. but the truth remains that Hausa/Fulani can not do without tribal politics.all the southern Nigeria states can do away tribal politics but only north central can do without it in the north here in Nigeria. Read my lips "no Hausa/Fulani man can vote anyone from other tribe while an Hausa/Fulani is contesting" . Why are we here talking about here

9ja voice:

@Ikengawo

Pls am convinced that mr.ikengawo is not an igboman as he claim to be. he is using the user name to confuse himself not us. look mr.ikengawo there is something you can't deny. how can u continually denyin shagari not been Nigeria civilian president and tafawa belewa not been Nigeria HOS,

Mr.Ikengawo is an Hausa Fulani man. his post is just one of Hausa/Fulani confusion post to make us belief they aren't our problem. but the truth remains that Hausa/Fulani can not do without tribal politics.all the southern Nigeria states can do away tribal politics but only north central can do without it in the north here in Nigeria. Read my lips "no Hausa/Fulani man can vote anyone from other tribe while an Hausa/Fulani is contesting" . Why are we here talking about here

You are a true product of Niggaria, Confused i.diot.

rubbish