enilove:


You are wrong.
There are more than 200 millions of Christians world wide who have faith in Jesus but are habitual sinners.

Just like take time and understand what I am saying.

I accept we all need to accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and be Baptised in the Holy spirit, but we must by the power of the Holy Spirit live a holy life.
To live a holy life , you must obey God's commandments.

I am wrong?

I can sense and feel your zeal for the law of GOD, just like apostle Paul had for the law before his conversion to the path of grace.

I pray the LORD leads you to the cross of CHRIST His Son.

Goshen360:
Some of you really need to unlearn what you have been taught for year. Teachings that have imbeded traditions of men are the most to do away with and unlearn.

Who taught you there's moral, ceremonial and sacrificial laws?

The law is a one package that was delivered as a whole and that's why breaking one is breaking all.

So when Paul the Apostle taught believers are not to follow the law of Moses, was he only talking about 10 commandments or sacrificial or ceremonial law? No! He was talking about the whole. The whole law including the 10 commandments IS abolished for those who are in Christ

You don't need the 10 commandments to tell you to do the right thing or not, you need the holy spirit that works within your conscience and renewed mind. There was no 10 commandments before Joseph flew from Potiphar wife, there was no commandments before Enoch walked with God, Noah was a just man, Job etc

God who gave the Ten commandment made mistake be giving it , is that not so?
Since Joseph , Enoch and Noah didn't read any law , God should not have botherd himself writing the Ten Commandment and other laws.

We know more than God , don't we?

enilove:


God who gave the Ten commandment made mistake be giving it , is that not so?
Since Joseph , Enoch and Noah didn't read any law , God should not have botherd himself writing the Ten Commandment and other laws.

We know more than God , don't we?

I am not suprise that after all the scriptures sent here, you are still not convinced. Even some general overseers still don't understand... Only the Holy Spirit can teach you. Why not pray and say to God, if this is true, make me understand. Ask Him to help you to know Him more. He will. Before now, when I hear this preaching, it flies out of my ears because it was not making sense. I use to think people who preach this truth needed deliverance.

Note brother, things of God does not make human sense. You need supernatural understanding to understand.

bloodofthelamb:


I can sense and feel your zeal for the law of GOD, just like apostle Paul had for the law before his conversion to the path of grace.

I pray the LORD leads you to the cross of CHRIST His Son.

Most of you don't understand the Bible and God.

Most of the Pastors and Christians that are committing sins did not give their lives to Jesus , is that not so?

There have been many revelations concerning heaven and hell. All of them talk about 1 out of 1000 going to heaven.
There was also a revelation about a mega church were during their convention , a revelation was guven that if Jesus should come then , only 3 out of about 4 millions would be raptured. Among these are Pastors and regional Pastors who will not be raptured , are they not under grace, have they not accepted Jesus as their Lord and Personal Saviour?

Grace requires from us higher standard of living.
Laws says until you kill , you have not committed murder, grace says when you are angry with your neighbour without a cause , you are murderer.

Grace means accepting Jesus and be born again and sin no more. Should there be a sin , ask God for forgiveness and don't continue in it and expect grace to abound.
Jesus told us not to lust after a woman and conclude you have not committed sin because you have not taking her to bed.
Is that not a law requiring a higher standard of holiness from us?

God told us not to curse our father or mother . Does grace means you are not under that law? Does grace makes us automatically Immune against sin? No.
It means God has opened a new account for you , no more inheritance of your ancestral sins and death .

Oracle16:


I am not suprise that after all the scriptures sent here, you are still not convinced. Even some general overseers still don't understand... Only the Holy Spirit can teach you. Why not pray and say to God, if this is true, make me understand. Ask Him to help you to know Him more. He will. Before now, when I hear this preaching, it flies out of my ears because it was not making sense. I use to think people who preach this truth needed deliverance.

Note brother, things of God does not make human sense. You need supernatural understanding to understand.

Can you explain these scriptures to me?

1 John 2:1-7 KJV
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: [2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. [3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. [4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. [5] But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. [6] He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. [7] Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

enilove:


Most of you don't understand the Bible and God.

Most of the Pastors and Christians that are committing sins did not give their lives to Jesus , is that not so?

There have been many revelations concerning heaven and hell. All of them talk about 1 out of 1000 going to heaven.
There was also a revelation about a mega church were during their convention , a revelation was guven that if Jesus should come then , only 3 out of about 4 millions would be raptured. Among these are Pastors and regional Pastors who will not be raptured , are they not under grace, have they not accepted Jesus as their Lord and Personal Saviour?

Grace requires from us higher standard of living.
Laws says until you kill , you have not committed murder, grace says when you are angry with your neighbour without a cause , you are murderer.

Grace means accepting Jesus and be born again and sin no more. Should there be a sin , ask God for forgiveness and don't continue in it and expect grace to abound.
Jesus told us not to lust after a woman and conclude you have not committed sin because you have not taking her to bed.
Is that not a law requiring a higher standard of holiness from us?

God told us not to curse our father or mother . Does grace means you are not under that law? Does grace makes us automatically Immune against sin? No.
It means God has opened a new account for you , no more inheritance of your ancestral sins and death .

Nobody says when you are under grace you can sin. In fact, under grace, you are given power to overcome sin. Without the Holy Spirit, there sins you can never overcome, some addiction like, fornication, drug abuse.... But when you understand and you have the Holy Spirit and you live by His lead, you overcome such sins because they don't have power over you. You can only overcome such sin under grace.

Also note this, no matter how you try to live under the law of 10 commandments, no matter how you are able to keep it, you will not make heaven. You only make heaven when you have the Righteousness of God. When you have it, you have power to overcome sin and when you sin, you feel sorry about it and repent immediately.

Oracle16:


Nobody says when you are under grace you can sin. In fact, under grace, you are given power to overcome sin. Without the Holy Spirit, there sins you can never overcome, some addiction like, fornication, drug abuse.... But when you understand and you have the Holy Spirit and you live by His lead, you overcome such sins because they don't have power over you. You can only overcome such sin under grace.

Also note this, no matter how you try to live under the law of 10 commandments, no matter how you are able to keep it, you will not make heaven. You only make heaven when you have the Righteousness of God. When you have it, you have power to overcome sin and when you sin, you feel sorry about it and repent immediately.

Exactly , very perfect. That is what I have been telling the OP right from the biginning of the thread.

Now that you have the power of the Holy Spirit , how come a person can commit sin? Is sin not a transgression of the law?
That means you are to keep the laws .

When the Bible is talking about grace and laws , it is for the Jews , the Pharisees who are following the laws and refused to accept Jesus as the Messiah and those who accepted but felt circumcision , not eating pigs ,killing animals for remission of sins etc are still necessary. Like women during menstruation cannot enter the church and so on. That is what it is meant by grace not that we must not obey those moral laws like " thou shall not steal", which many born again are committing in their respective places of work and say " it is by grace, no one can be holy".

We must be holy , as our Father in heaven is holy , and it is not automatic , but by following the warning of the Holy Spirit.
When driving at times , someone who is at fault will curse you and you retaliate or say "back to sender", but the Holy Spirit will convince you until you start praying for forgiveness and reverse the curse.

A Christian must know the laws and keep them after been born again and spirit filled.

[

quote author=enilove post=63667742]

From your second to your last paragraph, what is the meaning of living according to his word......?
Are you not talking about the commandments of God?

I was in your shoe before until I realized how a pityful wretched sinner I am in need of mercy, I became a changed man haven received the gift of grace from the Lord.
When I mentioned is word, I wasnt talking of the ten commandment.
His word includes his teaching and power, his revelational knowledge.

Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

The word of God brings about growth and maturity to the believer.


John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Everyone who is bornagain is dependent on God's word just as men depend on food for survivival.

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.


The fulfillment of the whole law is love but this love cannot be generated by the human heart.
This love is generated by the Spirit of Jesus that dwells in a man who is bornagain, it is spiritual,human intervention is not involve.
Did you learn how to commit sin? It is your nature. Same way if you are bornagain nobody teaches you righteousness, you just become righteous because it is the nature of Jesus in you.

The Bible says:

James 2:10-14,21-26 KJV
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point , he is guilty of all. [11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. [12] So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. [13] For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment. [14] What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? [21] Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? [22] Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? [23] And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. [24] Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. [25] Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? [26] For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Did you read chapter one? Was it written to Jews or gentiles? Can a man keep the whole law without breaking anyone? If a man breaks just one what does it make him?

Do you even know what the law of liberty means? Do you know when you depend on the law your faith becomes dead? Was Abraham faith a dead faith or a living faith? If living which law made Abraham to have a living faith? What of Rahab the harlot?


Answer these questions and it will give you an insight on the book of James.

solite3:
[ I was in your shoe before until I realized how a pityful wretched sinner I am in need of mercy, I became a changed man haven received the gift of grace from the Lord.
When I mentioned is word, I wasnt talking of the ten commandment.
His word includes his teaching and power, his revelational knowledge.

Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

The word of God brings about growth and maturity to the believer.


John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Everyone who is bornagain is dependent on God's word just as men depend on food for survivival.

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.


The fulfillment of the whole law is love but this love cannot be generated by the human heart.
This love is generated by the Spirit of Jesus that dwells in a man who is bornagain, it is spiritual,human intervention is not involve.
Did you learn how to commit sin? It is your nature. Same way if you are bornagain nobody teaches you righteousness, you just become righteous because it is the nature of Jesus in you.






Did you read chapter one? Was it written to Jews or gentiles? Can a man keep the whole law without breaking anyone? If a man breaks just one what does it make him?

Do you even know what the law of liberty means? Do you know when you depend on the law your faith becomes dead? Was Abraham faith a dead faith or a living faith? If living which law made Abraham to have a living faith? What of Rahab the harlot?


Answer these questions and it will give you an insight on the book of James.

Abraham was holy because God told him to:

Genesis 17:1 KJV
And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

If you have faith in Jesus Christ , you must obey his commandments , don't gossip, don't lie, don't fight, don't lust,don't steal etc .

Jesus said that his death does not mean cancelation of the laws.

enilove:


God who gave the Ten commandment made mistake be giving it , is that not so?
Since Joseph , Enoch and Noah didn't read any law , God should not have botherd himself writing the Ten Commandment and other laws.

We know more than God , don't we?

Smh.....I'm sorry. Believe whatever you want or like to believe but, if you have studied the teachings of the Apostles who walked with Christ you would have understood why the law (including the 10 commandments) was given to Isreal. THE LAW WAS NEVER GOD INTENTION FROM BEGINNING. Get your studies right. Study Galatians 3 and see for yourself.

Goshen360:


Smh.....I'm sorry. Believe whatever you want or like to believe but, if you have studied the teachings of the Apostles who walked with Christ you would have understood why the law (including the 10 commandments) was given to Isreal. THE LAW WAS NEVER GOD INTENTION FROM BEGINNING. Get your studies right. Study Galatians 3 and see for yourself.

who says the law was never God's intention from d beginning? Right from Adam God has always given laws. He asked dem not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Dat is a law. Our God is not a lawless God. There is no problem with the law Paul the apostle said "the law is Holy Roman7:12. David said it was perfect Psalm 19:12. The problem has never been with the law but with the nature of man. The law reveals all the flaws in man and we couldn't attain perfection by merely trying to keep the law.
Wat grace does it dat it empowers us to to keep the laws of God, dis time around its no more a struggle but comes naturally. The Bible said whosoever is born of God sinneth not but God's seed remains in him and so he cannot sin because he is born of God. The Holy Spirit in us is gives us thr ability to keep all the law of God.
If u say the law was abolished (wch Jesus categorically said he didn't come to abolish) den why is there still a priesthood in Christ? Why did Heb7:25 say he is our high priest dat liveth to makes intercession for us? Why do we still need an highpriest (who is in charge of ceremonial law)? The Holy communion replaced the passover, the Holy Spirit baptism replaced thr feast of pentecost and so on. There was simply a paradigm shift..

[quote author=enilove post=63674193]

Exactly , very perfect. That is what I have been telling the OP right from the biginning of the thread.

Now that you have the power of the Holy Spirit , how come a person can commit sin? Is sin not a transgression of the law?
That means you are to keep the laws .

@ bold if a man is born again he overcomes the sin nature through the nature of Christ in him.

When the Bible is talking about grace and laws , it is for the Jews , the Pharisees who are following the laws and refused to accept Jesus as the Messiah and those who accepted but felt circumcision , not eating pigs ,killing animals for remission of sins etc are still necessary. Like women during menstruation cannot enter the church and so on. That is what it is meant by grace not that we must not obey those moral laws like " thou shall not steal", which many born again are committing in their respective places of work and say " it is by grace, no one can be holy".

the moral law is fulfilled by one law which is love.

We must be holy , as our Father in heaven is holy , and it is not automatic , but by following the warning of the Holy Spirit.
When driving at times , someone who is at fault will curse you and you retaliate or say "back to sender", but the Holy Spirit will convince you until you start praying for forgiveness and reverse the curse.

A Christian must know the laws and keep them after been born again and spirit filled.

Ephesians 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Do you notice from the above verse that there is true holiness which is there is also a false holiness.
True holiness is the hand work of God.
A man who is born again is holy. Holiness is not gradual, it is the product of the seed of God in the new man.
@ bold holiness is not automatic? The theif on the cross how was he admitted into paradise if he wasn't automatically holy? Shm

A Christian does not live by fear, for we have not receive the Spirit of fear but of boldness.

@ bold again, A Christian is an ambasdor of Christ, therefore he is to represent him everywhere, both in words, and in action because of love not because he want to achieve righteousness.


Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

If you are living in fear you are simply in bondage and you have not know God because God is love.
2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

salvation101:
who says the law was never God's intention from d beginning? Right from Adam God has always given laws. He asked dem not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Dat is a law. Our God is not a lawless God. There is no problem with the law Paul the apostle said "the law is Holy Roman7:12. David said it was perfect Psalm 19:12. The problem has never been with the law but with the nature of man. The law reveals all the flaws in man and we couldn't attain perfection by merely trying to keep the law.
Wat grace does it dat it empowers us to to keep the laws of God, dis time around its no more a struggle but comes naturally. The Bible said whosoever is born of God sinneth not but God's seed remains in him and so he cannot sin because he is born of God. The Holy Spirit in us is gives us thr ability to keep all the law of God.
If u say the law was abolished (wch Jesus categorically said he didn't come to abolish) den why is there still a priesthood in Christ? Why did Heb7:25 say he is our high priest dat liveth to makes intercession for us? Why do we still need an highpriest (who is in charge of ceremonial law)? The Holy communion replaced the passover, the Holy Spirit baptism replaced thr feast of pentecost and so on. There was simply a paradigm shift..

God bless you.

Can you imagine a christian saying the law was a mistake from the beginning?

Does grace cancel obedience to God's commandments?

enilove:


God bless you.

Can you imagine a christian saying the law was a mistake from the beginning?

Does grace cancel obedience to God's commandments?

anyone dat says the law was a mistake is actually insulting God. God doesn't make mistakes. God didn't call Moses to mount sinia for 40days and handed a mistake to him. Moses received the law from God at sinia.. God has always dealt with man via law. Circumcision was the law given to Abraham and every male in his household had to obey

enilove:


Abraham was holy because God told him to:

Genesis 17:1 KJV
And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

If you have faith in Jesus Christ , you must obey his commandments , don't gossip, don't lie, don't fight, don't lust,don't steal etc .

Jesus said that his death does not mean cancelation of the laws.

which law then made Abraham perfect?
Love has already cancelled all the laws.

salvation101:
who says the law was never God's intention from d beginning? Right from Adam God has always given laws. He asked dem not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Dat is a law. Our God is not a lawless God. There is no problem with the law Paul the apostle said "the law is Holy Roman7:12. David said it was perfect Psalm 19:12. The problem has never been with the law but with the nature of man. The law reveals all the flaws in man and we couldn't attain perfection by merely trying to keep the law.
Wat grace does it dat it empowers us to to keep the laws of God, dis time around its no more a struggle but comes naturally. The Bible said whosoever is born of God sinneth not but God's seed remains in him and so he cannot sin because he is born of God. The Holy Spirit in us is gives us thr ability to keep all the law of God.
If u say the law was abolished (wch Jesus categorically said he didn't come to abolish) den why is there still a priesthood in Christ? Why did Heb7:25 say he is our high priest dat liveth to makes intercession for us? Why do we still need an highpriest (who is in charge of ceremonial law)? The Holy communion replaced the passover, the Holy Spirit baptism replaced thr feast of pentecost and so on. There was simply a paradigm shift..

Jesus has to put an end to the first covenant so that he can establish a new covenant which is based on his blood. Jesus has to be a priest to do this

2 Corinthians 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

he is right the law was not God's original plan.
The essence of the law is to lead men to Christ.


2 Corinthians 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

No body is saying the law is not good neither the law does not exist but that the law cannot make a man perfect or righteous.
The law made me realise I am a sinner which is a good thing because without the law I wouldn't know I needed a Saviour.
But since the saviour has come I am no longer under the law but I have now be justified by faith.
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


You need the law it means you are a sinner.

Actually, you don't need law but the saviour.

solite3:
Jesus has to put an end to the first covenant so that he can establish a new covenant which is based on his blood. Jesus has to be a priest to do this

2 Corinthians 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

he is right the law was not God's original plan.
The essence of the law is to lead men to Christ.


2 Corinthians 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

No body is saying the law is not good neither the law does not exist but that the law cannot make a man perfect or righteous.
The law made me realise I am a sinner which is a good thing because without the law I wouldn't know I needed a Saviour.
But since the saviour has come I am no longer under the law but I have now be justified by faith.
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


You need the law it means you are a sinner.

Actually, you don't need law but the saviour.

where did the Priesthood of Christ stem from? Are u also saying God made a mistake by giving the law? Elijah was a holy man he had nothing but the law.
Am sure u didn't go tru my d points i stated above. I never said u r justified by the law but by faith in Christ atoning work. But if u are truly born again u won't find ursef living contrary to the law of God.. God is not the author of confusion. Thou shall not kill was already existing in d hearts of man before it was written on stone, cain killed Abel, he knew wat he did and dat it was a sin.. My point is even if u don't av to memorize the 10 commandments, as long as we are in Christ we find ourselves doing those things naturally... Jesus never came to abolish d law but came to give us the ability to live beyond d requirements of the law. In d mosaic law, sin was judged after an act has been committed. In Christ, just the mere thought of sin is sin. Whoever lust av committed fornication, whosoever is angry at his brother is a murderer etc. These were the Teachings of Jesus, we don't know more than him

[quote author=salvation101 post=63682383] where did the Priesthood of Christ stem from? Are u also saying God made a mistake by giving the law? Elijah was a holy man he had nothing but the law.

did you read my posts? I didn't say the law is not good but, that the purpose of the law is to lead men to Christ.
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Which law made Elijah holy? If the law can make you holy then you don't need Christ.

Am sure u didn't go tru my d points i stated above. I never said u r justified by the law but by faith in Christ atoning work. But if u are truly born again u won't find ursef living contrary to the law of God.. God is not the author of confusion. Thou shall not kill was already existing in d hearts of man before it was written on stone, cain killed Abel, he knew wat he did and dat it was a sin..

God is not the author of confusion. The problem is not law but sin that reside in man neither is law the solution.
How can what cannot justify you make you holy

My point is even if u don't av to memorize the 10 commandments, as long as we are in Christ we find ourselves doing those things naturally... Jesus never came to abolish d law but came to give us the ability to live beyond d requirements of the law. In d mosaic law, sin was judged after an act has been committed. In Christ, just the mere thought of sin is sin. Whoever lust av committed fornication, whosoever is angry at his brother is a murderer etc. These were the Teachings of Jesus, we don't know more than him

[quote author=solite3 post=63683473][/quote] u still didn't get it. No one is saying the law justifies or makes u holy but dat if u av received grace, u won't go contrary to the law of God.. If a man is born again, even if he has no knowledge of the moral laws, the fruits from his lifestyle will be in consonance wit wat d law required...

salvation101:
u still didn't get it. No one is saying the law justifies or makes u holy but dat if u av received grace, u won't go contrary to the law of God.. If a man is born again, even if he has no knowledge of the moral laws, the fruits from his lifestyle will be in consonance wit wat d law required...

OK yes you are right.
True faith is know by the works it yields.

Luke 6:43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Luke 6:44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

solite3:
OK yes you are right.
True faith is know by the works it yields.

Luke 6:43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Luke 6:44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

exactly...

enilove

I understand that this is a sensitive issue, since it involves our salvation , to my understanding you seem not to understand the law, Paul said the law was our school master until Christ came as it's in Galatians 3:24 , the law was our guardian UNTIL CHRIST CAME so that we might be justified by faith,

I also notice that you don't understand what Faith is, you said a lot of Christians believe in Jesus and are living in sin, hmnnn there's a lie about faith, and that lie is that faith is assent or just that "I believe in Jesus" that's not it according to heb11
so anyone who claim to believe and God didn't put his holy spirit in him hasn't believed, you believe to receive, Paul didn't just have mental assent or just believe ,,, he was convicted so I declare AFFIRMATIVELY THAT NO BELIEVE WITHOUT CONVICTION AS IN HEB 11

So those you think have believed and yet have not convicted haven't believed to the salvation of their soul ,,,

ALL these things I said were truths declared by Paul and all apostles yet ,,, are they licentious didn't Paul say that if you live to the flesh you shall die.
... but yet even obeying the law is works of flesh because you obey the law to be justified by it, if you think otherwise tell me how the Galatians were trying to be perfect by the flesh (gal 3;3) is it an offense for them to be circumcised? at least that same Paul circumcised Timothy, that same Paul didnt circumcise titus. so study and tell me why Paul was angry at the Galatians , he called them foolish and also said they started in the spirit and want to end it by flesh .

what does it mean that they started in the spirit?
it means they started with a convicting belief , and not just mental assent.
what does it mean that they were trying to finish
by the law??... because they taught that the holy spirit will enable them obey the law ,,, prove me wrong. circumcision is of the law now if you said the holy spirit enable us fulfil the laws of Moses, why did Paul rebuke them....??.

you can say that Christ abolished the ceremonial law, but I tell you all law is one both ceremonial, civil, moral they all are one and were in the Bible as TORAH which is the five books of moses.

now you'd say , why the law?
I told you before that the law (,Torah, five books of Moses) is a school master , a guardian for Us to know our indebtedness to God. let me explain this to you before Abraham was called he was an idolater who doesn't even know anything about the true God, he had not the Torah (law, five books of Moses) so he didn't even know Genesis account until God appeared to him and made him know... if not how come all gentiles don't even know how the world was created, they all have different account, its from the law Genesis included that we know that God created the heavens and the earth.
so those that have the law are the church first the Jews then the church. the Jews were rejected because they failed to see that the law a guardian until Christ, he fulfilled the law, all the elect fulfilled it in him, Isaiah 53 God puts the sin of us all on him .... did that include the gentiles that died in their sins who never heard the gospel??
Now I say it emphatically that if I can get to heaven by the law Christ died in vain
so the holy spirit doesn't enable us live to the law , he enables us live to Christ.
if the holy spirit enables us to live to the law it means it enable us live to the guardian and not Jesus. the law is a means its not God...

I DON'T HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT TO LIVE TO THE LAW, BUT TO LIVE TO CHRIST ...

IF WE RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT TO LIVE TO THE LAW, WE SHOULDN'T EVEN STOP OFFERING BULLS, WE MUST BE CIRCUMCISED , IF WE RECEIVE THE SPIRIT TO KEEP THE LAW WE MUST ALL HAVE THE COMMANDMENTS TO OBEY THE LAW,

YOU ARE BOUGHT WITH A PRICE TO LIVE TO GOD... SO HONOR GOD NOT THE LAW, CHRIST BROUGHT US TO GOD, THE LAW DIDN'T CHRIST RECONCILED US THE LAW DIDN'T

WOULD I NOW RECEIVE THE SPIRIT TO LIVE TO THE LAW,?? THAT NEVER BROUGHT ME CLOSER? GOD FORBID .

yet the real believers are not licentious, they don't complain like those Jews that has the law yet complained and died , at least the law didn't say "do not complain". the law is different from the spirit. God gave the law without the spirit to obey it to the Jews .... the spirit is of grace, never of law .. The old testaments has the gospel too... and those that obey the gospel live to God. the gospel was before the law (Torah) .... I hope you know that.

salvation101:
u still didn't get it. No one is saying the law justifies or makes u holy but dat if u av received grace, u won't go contrary to the law of God.. If a man is born again, even if he has no knowledge of the moral laws, the fruits from his lifestyle will be in consonance wit wat d law required...

Then such man is not following the law then, he just does the right thing as though contained in the law. That's not to me he's under the (mosaic) law. Romans 2:14 is what you talking about but that man is not under the law because he wasn't given a law to follow in the first place.

Goshen360:


Then such man is not following the law then, he just does the right thing as though contained in the law. That's not to me he's under the (mosaic) law. Romans 2:14 is what you talking about but that man is not under the law because he wasn't given a law to follow in the first place.

yeah not dat we are living a life of dos and don't cos dat will just be plainly being religious. But d salvation we receive by faith in christ enables us to live right naturally..

salvation101:


who says the law was never God's intention from d beginning? Right from Adam God has always given laws. He asked dem not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Dat is a law. Our God is not a lawless God.

You are the one using sentiments to interpret scriptures. Allow scriptures to interpret scriptures. Now, what happened in Eden wasn't a given law like the people of Israel was officially or formally given the law. Scriptures never said Adam was given a law but instructions to the test of Obedience. So that's why Paul the Apostle said, "....by the DISOBEDIENT of one man, all were made SINNERS..."

Now, one can said, but sin is the breaking of the law. That's in the case where a law is given. But Adam sinned without a given law because his sin is not by definition of breaking a law but by disobedience. Hence, this verse...."Yes, people sinned even before the law was given. But it was not counted as sin because there was not yet any law to break". Romans 5:13.

You can tell your child not to do something and not necessarily make it a law in your household.

salvation101:


There is no problem with the law Paul the apostle said "the law is Holy Roman7:12. David said it was perfect Psalm 19:12. The problem has never been with the law but with the nature of man. The law reveals all the flaws in man and we couldn't attain perfection by merely trying to keep the law.

Many things wrong with the law - the law was given as punishment for the sins of arrogance in the people of Israel. There's boasting in arrongance in them so God gave them all the law and make them so hard for them to be able to keep and on top of that, God said, breaking one is breaking all - meaning the law came as one whole package delivered to them. So when Israel repents and see how hard these laws are to keep - then they will see a need for a savior, which is Christ and come to Christ. Christ is the end of the law to those that believe in Him as the Promise - study Galatians 3, Galatians 3:18-19 cf.

Also, the fuel for sin in one's life is the law. 1 Cor. 15vs56. So many things wrong with the law. Christlike or life is what God intended from beginning and not following some sets of rules etc

Before Paul said the law is holy, start reading Romans 7 from verse one. Vs 6 says....."we have been released from the bounds of the law..." One translation say, ".....we are divorced from the law....". The law being holy doesn't make you holy neither does it make you sinless. The law itself is an instrument of sin if a man is under the law - Romans 7vs8-9.

The law is perfect David said but doesn't make you perfect neither was the law made for the perfect man - 1 Timothy 1vs9. Again, Joseph didn't have "thou shall not commit adultery" before he flee sleeping with another man's wife. Cain didn't have "thou shall not kill" before he killed his brother. etc

You also said the problem is with the nature of man keeping the law - Look, both you fallen nature and your regenerated nature can't keep the law. You can't keep the law in your born again nature because you break "do wear cloth of two different materials" means you broke the rest. Or when you see you monthly period and go to gathering, you broke the rest. So you leave the law alone.

salvation101:


Wat grace does it dat it empowers us to to keep the laws of God, dis time around its no more a struggle but comes naturally. The Bible said whosoever is born of God sinneth not but God's seed remains in him and so he cannot sin because he is born of God. The Holy Spirit in us is gives us thr ability to keep all the law of God.


If u say the law was abolished (wch Jesus categorically said he didn't come to abolish) den why is there still a priesthood in Christ? Why did Heb7:25 say he is our high priest dat liveth to makes intercession for us? Why do we still need an highpriest (who is in charge of ceremonial law)? The Holy communion replaced the passover, the Holy Spirit baptism replaced thr feast of pentecost and so on. There was simply a paradigm shift..

God never gave you the Holy Spirit so you can go back using it to keep the law. I don't know what bible verse tells you that. This is what Paul refute the Galatians Christians about - the receive the Holy Spirit and went back to keeping the law. And Paul said, you began in the Spirit and ending in the flesh.

2. When you understand what Christ meant in that statement, you will drop the law for the reason it was given and having accomplished its goal, that is, to make people see their sins and how hard it is to keep it so they will then see a need for savior, Christ and once it drives you to the saviour, you no longer need it. That statement means, somethings the law said about Christ, he came not to abolish but to fulfill it or them. They have already been fulfilled!

3. Why do you keep saying there is ceremonial laws? What verse of scriptures divided the law into moral, ceremonial and sacrificial laws? Give me that verse? There's nothing like that - it is those who want to teach law keeping to Christian that made that distinction not the scriptures.

salvation101:
yeah not dat we are living a life of dos and don't cos dat will just be plainly being religious. But d salvation we receive by faith in christ enables us to live right naturally..

We agree on this one because we know the law has nothing to do with (our new found) faith (in Christ). Galatians 3vs12

true Joseph never had the law, the family of Jacob, Joseph were gospel believers .... yet he lived to God... living to God by the holy spirit is superior to living to the law

salvation101:
exactly...

if you read my earlier posts, I wasn't going against God's law ( God forbid) but emphasizing what the law is or is not.
Man is saved by faith without the law but however this faith must be genuine. It is not a mental ascent or a mere confession but a faith from an heart felt conviction that puts its 100% trust on Jesus.

Goshen360:


You are the one using sentiments to interpret scriptures. Allow scriptures to interpret scriptures. Now, what happened in Eden wasn't a given law like the people of Israel was officially or formally given the law. Scriptures never said Adam was given a law but instructions to the test of Obedience. So that's why Paul the Apostle said, "....by the DISOBEDIENT of one man, all were made SINNERS..."

Now, one can said, but sin is the breaking of the law. That's in the case where a law is given. But Adam sinned without a given law because his sin is not by definition of breaking a law but by disobedience. Hence, this verse...."Yes, people sinned even before the law was given. But it was not counted as sin because there was not yet any law to break". Romans 5:13.

You can tell your child not to do something and not necessarily make it a law in your household.



Many things wrong with the law - the law was given as punishment for the sins of arrogance in the people of Israel. There's boasting in arrongance in them so God gave them all the law and make them so hard for them to be able to keep and on top of that, God said, breaking one is breaking all - meaning the law came as one whole package delivered to them. So when Israel repents and see how hard these laws are to keep - then they will see a need for a savior, which is Christ and come to Christ. Christ is the end of the law to those that believe in Him as the Promise - study Galatians 3, Galatians 3:18-19 cf.

Also, the fuel for sin in one's life is the law. 1 Cor. 15vs56. So many things wrong with the law. Christlike or life is what God intended from beginning and not following some sets of rules etc

Before Paul said the law is holy, start reading Romans 7 from verse one. Vs 6 says....."we have been released from the bounds of the law..." One translation say, ".....we are divorced from the law....". The law being holy doesn't make you holy neither does it make you sinless. The law itself is an instrument of sin if a man is under the law - Romans 7vs8-9.

The law is perfect David said but doesn't make you perfect neither was the law made for the perfect man - 1 Timothy 1vs9. Again, Joseph didn't have "thou shall not commit adultery" before he flee sleeping with another man's wife. Cain didn't have "thou shall not kill" before he killed his brother. etc

You also said the problem is with the nature of man keeping the law - Look, both you fallen nature and your regenerated nature can't keep the law. You can't keep the law in your born again nature because you break "do wear cloth of two different materials" means you broke the rest. Or when you see you monthly period and go to gathering, you broke the rest. So you leave the law alone.



God never gave you the Holy Spirit so you can go back using it to keep the law. I don't know what bible verse tells you that. This is what Paul refute the Galatians Christians about - the receive the Holy Spirit and went back to keeping the law. And Paul said, you began in the Spirit and ending in the flesh.

2. When you understand what Christ meant in that statement, you will drop the law for the reason it was given and having accomplished its goal, that is, to make people see their sins and how hard it is to keep it so they will then see a need for savior, Christ and once it drives you to the saviour, you no longer need it. That statement means, somethings the law said about Christ, he came not to abolish but to fulfill it or them. They have already been fulfilled!

3. Why do you keep saying there is ceremonial laws? What verse of scriptures divided the law into moral, ceremonial and sacrificial laws? Give me that verse? There's nothing like that - it is those who want to teach law keeping to Christian that made that distinction not the scriptures.

excellent! God bless...

enilove

I understand that this is a sensitive issue, since it involves our salvation , to my understanding you seem not to understand the law, Paul said the law was our school master until Christ came as it's in Galatians 3:24 , the law was our guardian UNTIL CHRIST CAME so that we might be justified by faith,

I also notice that you don't understand what Faith is, you said a lot of Christians believe in Jesus and are living in sin, hmnnn there's a lie about faith, and that lie is that faith is assent or just that "I believe in Jesus" that's not it according to heb11
so anyone who claim to believe and God didn't put his holy spirit in him hasn't believed, you believe to receive, Paul didn't just have mental assent or just believe ,,, he was convicted so I declare AFFIRMATIVELY THAT NO BELIEVE WITHOUT CONVICTION AS IN HEB 11

So those you think have believed and yet have not convicted haven't believed to the salvation of their soul ,,,

ALL these things I said were truths declared by Paul and all apostles yet ,,, are they licentious didn't Paul say that if you live to the flesh you shall die.
... but yet even obeying the law is works of flesh because you obey the law to be justified by it, if you think otherwise tell me how the Galatians were trying to be perfect by the flesh (gal 3;3) is it an offense for them to be circumcised? at least that same Paul circumcised Timothy, that same Paul didnt circumcise titus. so study and tell me why Paul was angry at the Galatians , he called them foolish and also said they started in the spirit and want to end it by flesh .

what does it mean that they started in the spirit?
it means they started with a convicting belief , and not just mental assent.
what does it mean that they were trying to finish
by the law??... because they taught that the holy spirit will enable them obey the law ,,, prove me wrong. circumcision is of the law now if you said the holy spirit enable us fulfil the laws of Moses, why did Paul rebuke them....??.

you can say that Christ abolished the ceremonial law, but I tell you all law is one both ceremonial, civil, moral they all are one and were in the Bible as TORAH which is the five books of moses.

now you'd say , why the law?
I told you before that the law (,Torah, five books of Moses) is a school master , a guardian for Us to know our indebtedness to God. let me explain this to you before Abraham was called he was an idolater who doesn't even know anything about the true God, he had not the Torah (law, five books of Moses) so he didn't even know Genesis account until God appeared to him and made him know... if not how come all gentiles don't even know how the world was created, they all have different account, its from the law Genesis included that we know that God created the heavens and the earth.
so those that have the law are the church first the Jews then the church. the Jews were rejected because they failed to see that the law a guardian until Christ, he fulfilled the law, all the elect fulfilled it in him, Isaiah 53 God puts the sin of us all on him .... did that include the gentiles that died in their sins who never heard the gospel??
Now I say it emphatically that if I can get to heaven by the law Christ died in vain
so the holy spirit doesn't enable us live to the law , he enables us live to Christ.
if the holy spirit enables us to live to the law it means it enable us live to the guardian and not Jesus. the law is a means its not God...

I DON'T HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT TO LIVE TO THE LAW, BUT TO LIVE TO CHRIST ...

IF WE RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT TO LIVE TO THE LAW, WE SHOULDN'T EVEN STOP OFFERING BULLS, WE MUST BE CIRCUMCISED , IF WE RECEIVE THE SPIRIT TO KEEP THE LAW WE MUST ALL HAVE THE COMMANDMENTS TO OBEY THE LAW,

YOU ARE BOUGHT WITH A PRICE TO LIVE TO GOD... SO HONOR GOD NOT THE LAW, CHRIST BROUGHT US TO GOD, THE LAW DIDN'T CHRIST RECONCILED US THE LAW DIDN'T

WOULD I NOW RECEIVE THE SPIRIT TO LIVE TO THE LAW,?? THAT NEVER BROUGHT ME CLOSER? GOD FORBID .

yet the real believers are not licentious, they don't complain like those Jews that has the law yet complained and died , at least the law didn't say "do not complain". the law is different from the spirit. God gave the law without the spirit to obey it to the Jews .... the spirit is of grace, never of law .. The old testaments has the gospel too... and those that obey the gospel live to God. the gospel was before the law (Torah) .... I hope you know that.

enilove
what's the law of liberty according to James which you quoted?

Goshen360:


You are the one using sentiments to interpret scriptures. Allow scriptures to interpret scriptures. Now, what happened in Eden wasn't a given law like the people of Israel was officially or formally given the law. Scriptures never said Adam was given a law but instructions to the test of Obedience. So that's why Paul the Apostle said, "....by the DISOBEDIENT of one man, all were made SINNERS..."

Now, one can said, but sin is the breaking of the law. That's in the case where a law is given. But Adam sinned without a given law because his sin is not by definition of breaking a law but by disobedience. Hence, this verse...."Yes, people sinned even before the law was given. But it was not counted as sin because there was not yet any law to break". Romans 5:13.

You can tell your child not to do something and not necessarily make it a law in your household.



Many things wrong with the law - the law was given as punishment for the sins of arrogance in the people of Israel. There's boasting in arrongance in them so God gave them all the law and make them so hard for them to be able to keep and on top of that, God said, breaking one is breaking all - meaning the law came as one whole package delivered to them. So when Israel repents and see how hard these laws are to keep - then they will see a need for a savior, which is Christ and come to Christ. Christ is the end of the law to those that believe in Him as the Promise - study Galatians 3, Galatians 3:18-19 cf.

Also, the fuel for sin in one's life is the law. 1 Cor. 15vs56. So many things wrong with the law. Christlike or life is what God intended from beginning and not following some sets of rules etc

Before Paul said the law is holy, start reading Romans 7 from verse one. Vs 6 says....."we have been released from the bounds of the law..." One translation say, ".....we are divorced from the law....". The law being holy doesn't make you holy neither does it make you sinless. The law itself is an instrument of sin if a man is under the law - Romans 7vs8-9.

The law is perfect David said but doesn't make you perfect neither was the law made for the perfect man - 1 Timothy 1vs9. Again, Joseph didn't have "thou shall not commit adultery" before he flee sleeping with another man's wife. Cain didn't have "thou shall not kill" before he killed his brother. etc

You also said the problem is with the nature of man keeping the law - Look, both you fallen nature and your regenerated nature can't keep the law. You can't keep the law in your born again nature because you break "do wear cloth of two different materials" means you broke the rest. Or when you see you monthly period and go to gathering, you broke the rest. So you leave the law alone.



God never gave you the Holy Spirit so you can go back using it to keep the law. I don't know what bible verse tells you that. This is what Paul refute the Galatians Christians about - the receive the Holy Spirit and went back to keeping the law. And Paul said, you began in the Spirit and ending in the flesh.

2. When you understand what Christ meant in that statement, you will drop the law for the reason it was given and having accomplished its goal, that is, to make people see their sins and how hard it is to keep it so they will then see a need for savior, Christ and once it drives you to the saviour, you no longer need it. That statement means, somethings the law said about Christ, he came not to abolish but to fulfill it or them. They have already been fulfilled!

3. Why do you keep saying there is ceremonial laws? What verse of scriptures divided the law into moral, ceremonial and sacrificial laws? Give me that verse? There's nothing like that - it is those who want to teach law keeping to Christian that made that distinction not the scriptures.

if you say adam wasn't given a law den u are saying adam never sinned cos by definition, sin is a transgression of the law. Ur assumption dat the law is limited to the commandments given to Moses is actually false. God gave Abraham the law of circumcision and it is on record in the Bible that God almost killed for not circumcising his son. Exodus4:24-26. Dis was before God handed the table of stones to him.
Most of the things that featured in the Mosaic law was already in existence before that time like priesthood (the Bible talked about melchizedek), Offering of sacrifice by individuals was a normal thing, God even provided a lamb for Abraham to offer. Wat happened in the Mosaic law simply put all these things into proper perspective. It was a paradigm shift from God dealing with individuals to God dealing with a singular nation. In Christ Jesus, God dealings is now with the whole of humanity and not just a single nation. The Jews weren't the only biological seeds of Abraham, even after Sarah death Abraham still had children. Same with Isaac. Jacob wasn't his only seed. There was Esau too. How God dealt with those ppl as seeds of Abraham we don't know, but dey definitely practiced circumcision according to God instructions to Abraham..
The Mosaic law was the requirement for God dealings with the nation of Israel, we av alot to learn from it. Grace in Christ is a shift from God dealing with a single nation to God dealing with the whole of humanity. Tye same Spirit of God who dwelt in the Holies of Holies and frowned at sin wit death being the instant judgement is the same Holy Spirit dwelling in believers today. His requirement is still Holiness and sin grieves Him..
Jesus worshiped in the temple with the jews he even paid temple tax, the disciples worshiped in the temple with other jews. Dey still observed the Jewish hours of prayer Acts3:1-5.. Paul spent alot of time arguing the scriptures(wat we know today as old testament) with the jews trying to make dem see dat Jesus dey had killed was the messiah... It was persecution dat drove Christianity away from Jewish temple and not the will of God... Dey rejected the word and were hunting for the Christians to kill dem.
Wat do u av against classification of the law into ceremonial law, judicial, moral etc? Its just like classification of the gifts of tge torah into law,poetry, historical, major and minor prophet.. Even from tge way it was given.. The law by itself classified itself.. Only 10 were written on the table of stone