As a pet project while creating the earth. Operating systems copied the concept of multi-tasking from baba.

fellis, read the bible so u will understand.

You guys should stop forcing me to keep replying this thread.
@post above, I have read the Bible before. Don't assume that my asking questions means that I have no knowledge of the Bible.

Hell was not part of the six days creation. Hell was created many many years before the creation of Adam.

Joagbaje:

Hell was not part of the six days creation. Hell was created many many years before the creation of Adam.

So God had already planned to send humans to hell many many years before he created Adam, correct? So God knew that humans would sin and eventually have to end up in hell, so he created hell many many years in advance of creating man. So why was God surprise when Adam & Eve sinned. God already knew they were going to sin, correct?

Huxley:


So God had already planned to send humans to hell many many years before he created Adam, correct? 

So God knew that humans would sin and eventually have to end up in hell, so he created hell many many years in advance of creating man. 

So why was God surprise when Adam & Eve sinned.  God already knew they were going to sin, correct?

@ ^^

Yes, God already planned to have humans end up in hell . . .

Yes, God knew humans would sin . . . and hell was created in advance

No, God was not surprised when Adam sinned

Yes, correct God already knew they will sin . . .

---

---

Why was God surprise?

God was not surprised when Adam sinned, afterall God is omniscient

The questioning was for Adam's benefit - an experience called self-discovery

first of all God did not create any hell.

hell was created by the religions of man.

the funny thing about hell is that everyone is going to hell. how?

christian, buddhists, hinduists, atheists, pagans etc. are all going to the moslem's hell since they are infidels.

and moslems, hinduists and Buddhists, atheists, pagans etc. are all going to the christian hell since they are unbelievers.

therefore at the end of the day everybody is going to hell.

He didn't create hell. God original purpose was for humans to leave FOREVER in PERFECT conditions on a beautiful earth. Adam and Eve messed that up. And sin was brought in to the earth, and the wages of sin is death. Hell as an eternal damnation is made up. Hell is actually mankind common grave which we can all expect to "go" to if we happen to die.

Regardless of how what you make of it. Heaven/Hell, God/Satan, Good/Evil, Black/White, Light/Darkness, Angels/Demons are simply manifestations of our innate consciousness's need and ability to categorize reality for the purpose of sanity.

In the face of reality, we are lost without a central, infinitely all-powerful, all-knowing deity to whom we owe our lives and unquestioning loyalty to.
In order to remain in line and keep the faith, Hell is invented, how else would the evil of this world who escaped justice be punished

If there is a Hell, is it a physical location or it is all in our minds, Is it a spiritual location that can only be accessed when you are dead?

@Joagbaje
But I thot it took 6 days to create the whole world, how come years b4 Adams? IMO no one has answered the question so far!

@P
I really wonder how xtians think you said god created hell for devil and demons later human beings begin to end up there, that must a god that obviously doesn't know what he's doing, a god that didn't do all the permutations correctly and all of sudden something he never planned starts happening (humas going to hell) I hiss in LATIN

kieryn:

He didn't create hell. God original purpose was for humans to leave FOREVER in PERFECT conditions on a beautiful earth. Adam and Eve messed that up. And sin was brought in to the earth, and the wages of sin is death. Hell as an eternal damnation is made up. Hell is actually mankind common grave which we can all expect to "go" to if we happen to die.

Amen!!!, u got it, thats absolutely correct.

noetic16:

This is so DRY and uncreative . , . .u lack inspiration

You've just snuffed the little inspiration or is it perspiration that he tried to muster.

kieryn:

He didn't create hell. God original purpose was for humans to leave FOREVER in PERFECT conditions on a beautiful earth. Adam and Eve messed that up. And sin was brought in to the earth, and the wages of sin is death. Hell as an eternal damnation is made up. Hell is actually mankind common grave which we can all expect to "go" to if we happen to die.

You're right. God didn't create hell. But flesh and blood Adam and Eve never existed either. The Genesis story is an allegory telling you something else that is true. It makes no sense to say two people 'sinned' and all humanity became guilty. Even if they were real people, and they aren't, wouldn't inherited sin have stopped at the point God declared that Fathers would not pay for the sins of children, and children would not pay for the sins of their parents, but each would bear the consequences of his/her own sin?
It seems hell is real. It seems to exists as a vast, infinitely complex place of separation from God.

Mad_Max:


You're right. God didn't create hell. But flesh and blood Adam and Eve never existed either.

The Genesis story is an allegory telling you something else that is true.

It makes no sense to say two people 'sinned' and all humanity became guilty . . .

Mad_Max

Let's use the present age (i.e. the information technology age) and bring this home

Using Microsoft Office Word we can make sense of

"by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned"

Normal.dot (endearingly referred to as Normal Dot Dot) is the default or global template that Word uses to create a blank document

The moment the template becomes corrupt, all future word documents created with it will be corrupt unless the issue with the template is fixed or addressed before use

Those two people that sinned were the template that got damaged resulting in all humanity becoming guilty (i.e. word documents created from a defective template)

Sorting out the defective template gets one back to churning out defect free word documents

Yeah. I've heard how God made man from scratch and a woman from his rib and they ate a fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and mankind fell. That something as abstract as knowledge is represented by 'tree' and 'fruit' tells you this isn't a literal story. It's like Revelation, when a message is given to John in symbols. He understood. There was a place where he was completely baffled. Seeing he didn't get that particular imagery, the angel with him explained what it meant. The woman stands for this, the horns stand for that, etc. But he understood everything else and so there are no explanations offered for them. Adam and Eve aren't real flesh and blood people. No sin entered the world because they ate allegorical fruit. It's an insult to God's perfect justice that you'd accuse Him of punishing the innocent for the supposed sins of others and feel completely comfortable in this belief.

We're guilty all right. We're lost all right. We sinned all right. But it wasn't by proxy. There was no Adam and Eve. Biologically, we evolved as a species. But this world isn't the beginning and it isn't the end. We are. . . very old, all of us. God says, I have foreknown you from the foundation of the world. What do you think that means? It shouldn't be hard. Think of the story of the prodigal son. Think of Christ saying He will leave 99 secure sheep and go after a single one that is lost. Tnen go over the allegorical Adam and Eve story again. You'll figure it out. There's no such thing as inherited or original sin from Adam/Eve . It's, I'm sorry, completely absurd.

Mad_Max:


Yeah. I've heard how God made man from scratch and a woman from his rib and they ate a fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and mankind fell. That something as abstract as knowledge is represented by 'tree' and 'fruit' tells you this isn't a literal story. It's like Revelation, when a message is given to John in symbols. He understood. There was a place where he was completely baffled. Seeing he didn't get that particular imagery, the angel with him explained what it meant. The woman stands for this, the horns stand for that, etc. But he understood everything else and so there are no explanations offered for them. Adam and Eve aren't real flesh and blood people. No sin entered the world because they ate allegorical fruit. It's an insult to God's perfect justice that you'd accuse Him of punishing the innocent for the supposed sins of others and feel completely comfortable in this belief.

We're guilty all right. We're lost all right. We sinned all right. But it wasn't by proxy. There was no Adam and Eve. Biologically, we evolved as a species. But this world isn't the beginning and it isn't the end. We are. . . very old, all of us. God says, I have foreknown you from the foundation of the world. What do you think that means? It shouldn't be hard. Think of the story of the prodigal son. Think of Christ saying He will leave 99 secure sheep and go after a single one that is lost. Tnen go over the allegorical Adam and Eve story again. You'll figure it out. There's no such thing as inherited or original sin from Adam/Eve . It's, I'm sorry, completely absurd.

@Mad_Max

Was about saying, yeah, let's agree to disagree but among others the bolded caught my eyes

So what are we guilty of?

How are we lost . . .

When, how, where did we sin . . .

How did we evolve, what and/or where did we evolve from . . .

Ah, I shall have to disappoint you and not answer some of that. By evolving biologically I don't mean we arrived by ourselves, independent of God. God created us. We're spirit beings He thought about. We came into existence because of that. If you're alive on this earth you're an amalgam of spirit and flesh. Imagine how powerful a being must be, if he created creatures as complicated as we are merely by thinking about it. We aren't all He created. There are things and beings far far far more powerful and incredible than mere humans. He continues to create. Universes and beings and spirits and realms and hyper-realities impossible to imagine. It doesn't end. It's wonderful.

The Adam/Eve story in the bible isn't the original. It's a waterered down version. I think the Talmud contains the original. When you read that you're in no doubt it's allegorical, but the hairs on your neck prickle. Something is clearly happening there, hidden by imagery. Something true and terrible. It's not for me to say. When your mind confronts something that is true but you're not ready for it, you will reject it. So you'll find out the Adam/Eve story isn't literal at your own pace. People have known they aren't real for a long, long time. It's not new.

One exercise is to think of the spiritual facts you know and how you arrived by that knowledge. Isn't it from religious authority, from other men? And didn't you believe based on their authority as teachers and pastors? Or they offered incontroversible proof of what they taught you? So what's true for you then is dependent on which particular religious authority you trust and choose to believe. But isn't it true that these authorities differ and so there are diverse creeds and doctrines in Christianity, denominations representing its own brands of truth? Doesn't all the arguments between Christians on this forum reflect the different truths we've been taught?

But if a thing were true, wouldn't it be true regardless of denomination or creed? How many things do you KNOW for yourself that isn't based on religious authority teaching? If you're like most of us, precious little. So what you're defending isn't necessarily what is true but what you've been taught for so long it's a part of you. To doubt it would be acute discomfort. To cut it off would be hideous trauma. It'll be like being adrift at sea with no compass.

And yet if you don't, it's unlikely you'll learn anything new. Indoctrination is a form of mental bondage. It erects a wall. How can God get behind that wall and talk to you if you don't pull it down? It can't be easy for God. We're hard creatures to teach, and we don't learn. We're gifted at self-deception, at going off our own tangents, at twisting things, at perverting the truth, at seeing what we want to see. How can we be trusted? Nevertheless, He talks to us, He teaches us, He does not stop trying.

He talks to you and I, if you'll listen. If you won't insist you know better. He'll always confirm things He tells you. In the bible, in the words and writings of strange people, in many ways. There was a book I happened across that confirmed things I knew, but from which I also learnt new things. The author is an atheist who died in a Parisienne hospital. He expected oblivion (he didn't believe we survived biological death) and got a huge shock instead. Read what he says and judge for yourself. I believed him. It's MY DESCENT INTO DEATH by Howard Storm. If you like, I can post excerpts from the book here.

God's is a Spirit of truth and He'll lead you into truth, if you desire it. Your religious teachers may be right and what they say may be true. But God also wants to talk to YOU personally. Don't block him out with indoctrinated ideas and act like religious authourity knows better than HE.

Maybe it's better to stay in the safety of what you've been taught, and to defend that viciously if it's threatened. Because those teachings are a part of you, those who attack it attack you in way, and in defending it you're defending yourself. It's natural. You're saved whether you hide behind indoctrination or not.

But if you want to know things, you'll have to endure the trauma of de-doctrination.  The things you'll learn will have been taught you by religious authority, but now you learn in perfect freedom. But you'll learn new things too. Hidden things. Secret things.Stay in your comfort zone. Or dare to venture out and ask God to lead you into truth like He promised. He is ready and willing and able. It's fantastic He even bothers
at all, but He does. I know 'His Love' has become a cliche and lost meaning. But in truth, no one will ever love you more.

Mad_Max:


Ah, I shall have to disappoint you and not answer some of that. By evolving biologically I don't mean we arrived by ourselves, independent of God. God created us. We're spirit beings He thought about. We came into existence because of that. If you're alive on this earth you're an amalgam of spirit and flesh. Imagine how powerful a being must be, if he created creatures as complicated as we are merely by thinking about it. We aren't all He created. There are things and beings far far far more powerful and incredible than mere humans. He continues to create. Universes and beings and spirits and realms and hyper-realities impossible to imagine. It doesn't end. It's wonderful.

The Adam/Eve story in the bible isn't the original. It's a waterered down version. I think the Talmud contains the original. When you read that you're in no doubt it's allegorical, but the hairs on your neck prickle. Something is clearly happening there, hidden by imagery. Something true and terrible.  It's not for me to say. When your mind confronts something that is true but you're not ready for it, you will reject it. So you'll find out the Adam/Eve story isn't literal at your own pace. People have known they aren't real for a long, long time.  It's not new.

One exercise is to think of the spiritual facts you know and how you arrived by that knowledge. Isn't it from religious authority, from other men? And didn't you believe based on their authority as teachers and pastors? Or they offered incontroversible proof of what they taught you? So what's true for you then is dependent on which particular religious authority you trust and choose to believe. But isn't it true that these authorities differ and so there are diverse creeds and doctrines in Christianity, denominations representing its own brands of truth? Doesn't all the arguments between Christians on this forum reflect the different truths we've been taught?   

But if a thing were true, wouldn't it be true regardless of denomination or creed? How many things do you KNOW for yourself that isn't based on religious authority teaching? If you're like most of us, precious little. So what you're defending isn't necessarily what is true but what you've been taught for so long it's a part of you. To doubt it would be acute discomfort. To cut it off would be hideous trauma. It'll be like being adrift at sea with no compass.

Mad_Max:


And yet if you don't, it's unlikely you'll learn anything new. Indoctrination is a form of mental bondage. It erects a wall. How can God get behind that wall and talk to you if you don't pull it down? It can't be easy for God. We're hard creatures to teach, and we don't learn. We're gifted at self-deception, at going off our own tangents, at twisting things, at perverting the truth, at seeing what we want to see. How can we be trusted? Nevertheless, He talks to us, He teaches us, He does not stop trying.

He talks to you and I, if you'll listen. If you won't insist you know better. He'll always confirm things He tells you. In the bible, in the words and writings of strange people, in many ways. There was a book I happened across that confirmed things I knew, but from which I also learnt new things. The author is an atheist who died in a Parisienne hospital. He expected oblivion (he didn't believe we survived biological death) and got a huge shock instead. Read what he says and judge for yourself. I believed him. It's MY DESCENT INTO DEATH by Howard Storm. If you like, I can post excerpts from the book here.

God's is a Spirit of truth and He'll lead you into truth, if you desire it. Your religious teachers may be right and what they say may be true. But God also wants to talk to YOU personally. Don't block him out with indoctrinated ideas and act like religious authourity knows better than HE.

Maybe it's better to stay in the safety of what you've been taught, and to defend that viciously if it's threatened. Because those teachings are a part of you, those who attack it attack you in way, and in defending it you're defending yourself. It's natural. You're saved whether you hide behind indoctrination or not.

But if you want to know things, you'll have to endure the trauma of de-doctrination.  The things you'll learn will have been taught you by religious authority, but now you learn in perfect freedom. But you'll learn new things too. Hidden things. Secret things.Stay in your comfort zone. Or dare to venture out and ask God to lead you into truth like He promised. He is ready and willing and able. It's fantastic He even bothers
at all, but He does. I know 'His Love' has become a cliche and lost meaning. But in truth, no one will ever love you more.

@Mad_Max

Dont sweat yourself over "MY DESCENT INTO DEATH by Howard Storm".

- already familiar with the subject & author

With respect and without offence, I daresay your submission(s) were deceptively initially interesting, it fizzled out to be pretentious

and turned out to be off-the-rail with warped rhetorics, unnecessarily vague & misleading out of sheer misguidance . . .

Take a sabbatical off the Movies forum and make more or frequent pit-stops and/or appearances here

PS For the record I am not affliated to a religion.

I didn't mean to sound pretentious. I detest it in people. Or to mislead/misguide either. I know you're disppointed I didn't answer your questions directly, though I easily could. I can't start telling you things as if I'm some divinely appointed teacher. I'm still learning and know very, very little. But there's no way the things you've seen and know or think you know won't colour what you say, though you're attempting to say nothing. Hence my sounding 'vague'. I simply cannot tell you things. And certainly not on a public forum. You can't look to people to lead you and teach you and tell you what to believe or how to believe or what is true or not true. Only He may lead you. Just look to Him. He's the whole point.  THAT was my whole point. He isn't affiliated to any religion either. No religion has a monopoly on truth.

Hell is as old as d rebellion of d devil.i think d right question shuld be when did lucifer rebel.

fashionkid:

Hell is as old as d rebellion of d devil.i think d right question shuld be when did lucifer rebel.

And why did lucifer rebel? And please, no bible quotes. I don't read those things. I want a straight answer from you.

@ Mad Max and all other like him


You people make my head hurt. What ever happen to "just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin and thus death spread to all man because they have all sinned." If you bake bread in pan with a dent every bread that you bake in that pan will have a dent. Abeg use short sentences and easy logic. You go make my head scatter.

kieryn:

@ Mad Max   and all other like him


You people make my head hurt. What ever happen to "just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin and thus death spread to all man because they have all sinned." If you bake bread in pan with a dent every bread that you bake in that pan will have a dent. Abeg  use short sentences and easy logic. You go make my head scatter.

Pardonez moi for coming in here, but i just have to because of your analogy. If i discover that the pan i am using has a dent that is consequently causing dents in my breads, i would either effectively repair the pan or replace it with one without a dent, logically, since i do not want loafs of bread with dents. What would be the point of leaving the dented pan to missshape the other loafs, only to throw them all into the trash bin afterwards?

The logical thing to do here is to take an EFFECTIVE step to make sure the rest of the loafs of bread are without dents, with emphasis on EFFECTIVE. If this yahweh really loved his creations, then he should have taken effective steps to correct what the problem was, afterall he had more than enough time to have done so, but he did not.

I hope that you can see the fallacy of your analogy.

Mad_Max:


. . . I'm still learning and know very, very little . . . Hence my sounding 'vague'.

@Mad_Max

Simply take the advice to frequent here often to shrug off the Nolly & Hollywood fantasy and delusions of grandeur

Whilst Mad Max may sound off topic and rambling, he has articulated himself quite eloquently and in an erudite manner. It is worthwhile to consider what he is saying. This is more that can be said of other posters here.

As for Jagunlabi & Huxley - it is best to ignore them. Huxley is well known for intentionally creating posts for the express purpose of contention, rather than for enlightened discussion. He seem to have found an excellent tag team partner in Jagunlabi!

I simply cannot tell you things. And certainly not on a public forum.

@Mad Max - with regards to you comment above, it would be nice of you to inform us as to why. You have made certain assertions that people want to know more about, or want you to clarify. It is only fair that you do so, or offer a more plausible reason for your inability to do so.

Romeo4real:


Whilst Mad Max may sound off topic and rambling, he has articulated himself quite eloquently and in an erudite manner.

It is worthwhile to consider what he is saying. This is more that can be said of other posters here.

As for Jagunlabi & Huxley - it is best to ignore them. Huxley is well known for intentionally creating posts for the express purpose of contention, rather than for enlightened discussion. He seem to have found an excellent tag team partner in Jagunlabi!

Romeo4real:


@Mad Max - with regards to you comment above, it would be nice of you to inform us as to why.

You have made certain assertions that people want to know more about, or want you to clarify.

It is only fair that you do so, or offer a more plausible reason for your inability to do so.

@Romeo4real

Hear hear . . . and subscribing

by the way, Mad_Max is a she

PS Huxley is cool, he throws up subject matters, steps back, watches the terrain and then interjects when he fancies or deems fit

Jagunlabi on the other hand is a toughened cookie (i.e. o ti giran) famous for his general distrust and seasonal cynicism

e36991:

@Mad_Max
Simply take the advice to frequent here often to shrug off the Nolly & Hollywood fantasy and delusions of grandeur

You're rude.
You assume my two long posts were meant just for you. They weren't.  While talking indoctrination, the 'you' was a general public you, not just you in particular. I've lived the indoctrinated life. It IS a peculiar form of bondage. The message was for others in a similar predicament. It's possible you may have mistaken my earnestness for pretentiousness. You're free to. People here have posted things that's helped me lots of times. The posters had no idea. So it wasn't all about you.

Romeo4real:

@Mad Max - with regards to you comment above, it would be nice of you to inform us as to why. You have made certain assertions that people want to know more about, or want you to clarify. It is only fair that you do so, or offer a more plausible reason for your inability to do so.

Oh dear. Which assertions in particular?

Mad_Max:


You're rude.

You assume my two long posts were meant just for you. They weren't.  

While talking indoctrination, the 'you' was a general public you, not just you in particular. I've lived the indoctrinated life.

It IS a peculiar form of bondage. The message was for others in a similar predicament.

It's possible you may have mistaken my earnestness for pretentiousness. You're free to.

People here have posted things that's helped me lots of times. The posters had no idea. So it wasn't all about you.

romeo4real
Can I get back to you? Tx

@Mad_Max

I am ashamed for stooping low to the extent of getting tagged rude

I misconstrued the ambiguity(ies). Am sorry and apologise

I agree with Nick you on certain issues you highlighted hence the interest, enthusiasm & scrutiny

lets get back to the topic. Hell created by God or not.

[size=13pt]hell does not exist. . . .and , god does not exist likewise . all were created by men to twist the world with their so-called religion madness.[/size]

kieryn:

lets get back to the topic. Hell created by God or not.