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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Yahweh And His Lying Angels. (13766 Views)
Why Do Pastors Avoid Using The Names (YAHWEH And YESHUA) / Yahweh And Freewill (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by DeepSight(m): 11:15am On May 03, 2010 |
^^^ Please look again, Mazaje - the post above was not written by me, so I don't know how Oneness of Infinity Comes into this. . . |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by PastorAIO: 8:37pm On May 03, 2010 |
Quote from: Pastor AIO on April 29, 2010, 12:55 PM dude in contrast to Eli u claimed that Yahweh was an angry, jealous God not properly introduced to the jews? . . .what other meaning did u connote other than the one pre-stated? . . . .The least u could have done is to admit your folly Actually what I said was . . . Quote from: Pastor AIO on April 28, 2010, 06:16 PM The way you misquote and misread is very interesting. It sheds light on how you've derived your misunderstanding of the bible. |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by PastorAIO: 9:03pm On May 03, 2010 |
@nuclearboy @PastorAIO; No, I'm not. Are you? I can't believe that you are still asking me what I subscribe to after all this time. I've stated my position over and over again over the last few years. I don't really do religious beliefs ( if I can help it) but I do do religious practice. How does one go about discovering Truth? Was it you who said you were looking for a religion and I offered to help but you did not get back to me? you must be committed to the quest from the start. The quest for truth that is. I guess you were expecting me to present you with a doctrine which you could then pick apart and criticise. Well that was not what I was proposing for a religion. I was proposing a Practice which is a totally different proposition from a Doctrine. I can still suggest some practices for you if you are truly on a quest for Truth.https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-142723.0.html#msg2379350 If I believe anything then it is that beliefs are not absolute. Ideally I would live beyond doctrine, ideology, or religious concept. |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by noetic17: 9:16pm On May 03, 2010 |
^^^ Its either u are helplessly dishonest or have amnesia. . . . .Me thinks its the former. This were ur EXACT words So these stories are not a corruption but rather in perfect harmony with the way the people of that part of the world at that time thought of their deities. |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by PastorAIO: 9:38pm On May 03, 2010 |
noetic17: . . . and how have my exact words exposed dishonesty. You said that I said El was a loving God. I didn't say any such thing. I said that there is a remarkable contrast between El and Yahweh. I pointed to the fact that Abraham could eat and talk with El, Jacob could even wrestle with him. Yet Yahweh came across as more formidable. You came up with some claptrap about Jesus dying to effect a reconciliation so that we could eat and talk and wrestle with Yahweh again just like Abraham and Jacob did with El. I suspect that you are on some kind of medication because I do not see how the parts you've highlighted and made bigger support what you are saying, or show me to be dishonest. |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by noetic17: 9:54pm On May 03, 2010 |
^^^ This post I made is the bone of contention. dude in contrast to Eli u claimed that Yahweh was an angry, jealous God not properly introduced to the jews? . . .what other meaning did u connote other than the one pre-stated? . . . .The least u could have done is to admit your folly 1. You denied the above by producing a quote from ur past post. Which I refuted by producing another quote from ur past post that actually shows that u stated that. 2. by ur post u asserted that El was approachable and that Abraham dined with Him, but quite unlike Yahweh who is unapproachable angry and jealous. 3. Your attempt to deny this assertion is what I consider dishonest. or did u simply change ur mind? 4. if by now u deny painting Yahweh as the opposite of El, what then is their major ontological difference? |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by Bastage: 10:11pm On May 03, 2010 |
You seem to love the word "ontological". Do you actually know what it means? |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by noetic17: 10:19pm On May 03, 2010 |
Bastage: No. . . . , Can u help me? |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by PastorAIO: 10:22pm On May 03, 2010 |
noetic17: I don't know how you can read 'terrifying awe inspiring' and understand that I said that Yahweh was 'angry'. That is your problem. You lack basic comprehension skills. Yahweh is jealous by his own admission. He makes it known in no uncertain terms that he is a jealous god. If you think that was a baseless claim on my part then you obviously don't know your bible. El's ontology was different on a number of points. El appeared as a physical person. / Yahweh does not have a physical depiction. Abraham had a meal with El / Yahweh tells the people of Israel that they cannot even touch the foot of mount sinai or they will be put to death. Jacob wrestled with El and wouldn't release him until he received a blessing. / I cannot imagine such a thing happening with Yahweh. Even moses couldn't see his face. These are the ones that I can think of right now. There is no mention of anger in anything I've said to distinguish them. |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by PastorAIO: 10:24pm On May 03, 2010 |
Ontology (from the Greek ὄν, genitive ὄντος: of being (neuter participle of εἶναι: to be) and -λογία, -logia: science, study, theory) is the philosophical study of the nature of being, existence or reality in general, as well as the basic categories of being and their relations. Traditionally listed as a part of the major branch of philosophy known as metaphysics, ontology deals with questions concerning what entities exist or can be said to exist, and how such entities can be grouped, related within a hierarchy, and subdivided according to similarities and differences.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontology |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by noetic17: 11:00pm On May 03, 2010 |
Pastor AIO: 1. I am sure any literal observer would see that "awe terrifying" is synonymous with ANGER. Also considering that u clearly stated that Yahweh was unapproachable. why is He unapproachable? cos He is terrifying or angry . , what ever ur pick is, they mean the same thing. 2. The problem here is ur apparent cowardice and dishonesty. I never disputed that Yahweh never claimed to be jealous. The bone of contention is your RIDICULOUS claim that El is different from Yahweh. why are u now trying to shift the goal post? are u suddenly confused? 3. Yahweh appeared as a burning fire that guided the israelites at night in the wilderness. Yahweh also appeared as a burning fire in the bush to Moses. 4. Your biblical knowledge is porous. The Israelites not only went to mount sinai. . . .they all heard Yahweh speak to them loud and clear. But because Yahweh chose to speak in a loud, terrifying and inaudible tone, they pleaded that He now only speaks with Moses. 5. Moses actually saw the back of Yahweh and communed with Yahweh just like Abraham did with El. Joshua also had an encounter with the Captain of the Hosts of Heaven, who accepted worship from Joshua. did Joshua not see Yahweh? David saw the Father say unto the Son, "sit at my right hand until I make ur enemies ur foot stool" perhaps u should ask for further biblical education if u find any part of the bible confusing. I would gladly educate ur ignorance. |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by noetic17: 11:01pm On May 03, 2010 |
Pastor AIO: I was hoping Bastage could come up with a unique definition from his brain and not from a dictionary of wikipedia. |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by PastorAIO: 8:31am On May 04, 2010 |
noetic17: hmm . . yes . . but that doesn't change the fact that you use the word so extensively without the foggiest clue about what it means. Considering that a great deal of what you say is qualified with the word 'ontologically' and you don't even know what the word means, it follows that you don't know what you're talking about a great deal of the time. That must explain why you feel forced to consistently resort to personal insults. You are just expressing your inarticulate frustrations. That you make such prolific use of the term without knowing what it means is just a symptom of a general malaise. Another symptom of the same malaise is your entire religious standpoint which is similarly based on your ignorance of the bible and misunderstanding of the languages it is written in. |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by Bastage: 8:55am On May 04, 2010 |
I was hoping Bastage could come up with a unique definition from his brain and not from a dictionary of wikipedia. No need. See I know what it means. In a conversation which is specifically about a god, you don't need to use the word "ontological". It will already be understood what you are speaking about. You can simply ask "What's the difference"? And how do you get from awe-inspiring to angry? I am sure any literal observer would see that "awe terrifying" is synonymous with ANGER. I'd suggest that the reason that nobody can get near to Yaweh is because he was a figment of Moses' imagination. Below is the converstation between Moses and his followers. "I have this great god. He is so cool." "Can we see him?". "No. You'll have to take my word for it". "But your word is not all that". "OK then. The god said we can't see him. Will you shut up now?". |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by PastorAIO: 9:00am On May 04, 2010 |
noetic17: Really? English can't be your first language. Or even your 2nd or 3rd language. Maybe you did a crash course when you arrived from your village late in your adulthood. noetic17: dude in contrast to Eli u claimed that Yahweh was an angry, jealous God [/b]not properly introduced to the jews? . . .what other meaning did u connote other than the one pre-stated? . . . .The least u could have done is to admit your follyWhen I am accused of making a claim that Yahweh is jealous I presume that the accuser thinks the opposite. and so . . .? Did El ever appear as a burning fire or as a burning bush? 4. Your biblical knowledge is porous. The Israelites not only went to mount sinai. . . .they all heard Yahweh speak to them loud and clear. But because Yahweh chose to speak in a loud,[b] terrifying and inaudible tone, they pleaded that He now only speaks with Moses. "let them be ready for the third day, for on the third day the Lord will come down on Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people[b]. You shall set bounds for the people all around[/b], saying, ‘Beware that you do not go up on the mountain or touch the border of it; whoever touches the mountain shall surely be put to death." Exodus 19:11-12 But because Yahweh chose to speak in a loud, terrifying and inaudible tone, they pleaded that He now only speaks with Moses.Terrifying?? Are you saying Yahweh is angry? Because you've made me understanding that you think to be terrifying is to be angry. (you have such a poor grasp of the english language.) 5. Moses actually saw the back of Yahweh and communed with Yahweh just like Abraham did with El. Joshua also had an encounter with the Captain of the Hosts of Heaven, who accepted worship from Joshua. did Joshua not see Yahweh? David saw the Father say unto the Son, "sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your foot stool" |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by Bastage: 11:34am On May 04, 2010 |
Biblical scholars regard the triconsonantal root of hawah (הוה), as a more likely origin for the name Yahweh (יהוה); hawah literally means blow/fall, and thus Yahweh would be he who blows/he who makes certain things fall, which seems particularly fitting for a storm deity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_bush |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by MyJoe: 1:32pm On May 04, 2010 |
Romeo4real:When I saw that package - the one with FOOLish verses (pun intended) - you put together for ol’ DS earlier, I mused that you are rather lucky that you are a Christian because I don’t know how you would have coped if you came up against certain people! As you get better acquainted with this section, you will not let any of it get to you. You can be dogmatic – this is religion, not science – but try to see others’ perspectives. If you can’t see it, listen to them all the same and then try to be logical, rather than resort to the most hurtful words you have learnt as most of the religious folk around here are wont to do once logic or verses fail them. You are better off if you don’t get angry at all. There is enough space for all. Romeo4real:“I realise you can’t see it for now, but Christianity is right, others are wrong.” Now we can’t argue that with you because, as I have observed, it’s in the nature of any religion, particularly the Abrahamic faiths, to make its followers think this way. But I also believe you can appreciate the fact that since God did not personally inform you of the rightness of your path and everything connected with it, you are like the rest of us. That is why the “Damascus experience” cuts both ways – several ways. I mean there are people who yesterday were Bible-chewing, anointing-filled, demon-casting, born-again Christians, whose own Damascus experience took them away from biblical Christianity. 1 Like |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by Romeo4real(m): 4:19pm On May 04, 2010 |
When I saw that package - the one with FOOLish verses (pun intended) - you put together for ol’ DS earlier, I mused that you are rather lucky that you are a ChristianDnt know what you're on about here. What FOOLish verses did i put together for Deep Sight? That is why the “Damascus experience” cuts both ways – several ways. I mean there are people who yesterday were Bible-chewing, anointing-filled, demon-casting, born-again Christians, whose own Damascus experience took them away from biblical ChristianityWell, no religion has a monopoly on enlightenment. I don't claim that, but you would have to use another phrase. "the Damascus Experience" arising from Paul's epiphany can only cut one way. It is in the Bible, and used to describe a Christian experience. If it takes you away from Christianity, it cannot really be described as a "Damascus experience" can it? And yes, i am being pedantic. |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by MyJoe: 5:19pm On May 04, 2010 |
Romeo4real:I am on about the pun - the verses full of "fools". Didn't mean to say the verses were themselves without sense or in any way direct anything negative towards your person. Romeo4real:You used the phrase in a metaphorical sense. That is, you were not talking about the man Paul and the city Damascus. "Damascus experience" = religious experience leading to conversion. That cuts all ways. |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by DeepSight(m): 5:20pm On May 04, 2010 |
I would say "spiritual experience." |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by noetic17: 10:33pm On May 04, 2010 |
Pastor AIO: how often do u tell lies and twist your words to your congregation. . . .simply because u are handicapped in the use of vocabulary? I am sure many members of your congregation are not as DAFT as u seem to be. 2. Incase u did not know . , . .this is what it means to terrify: to fill with terror or alarm; to make greatly afraid http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/terrifying |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by Nobody: 11:09pm On May 04, 2010 |
Is AIO truly a pastor? Someone pls say NO. |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by Bastage: 11:26pm On May 04, 2010 |
Noetic: Your dictionary definition proves nothing. Something can be awe-inspiring or terrifying without being angry. Terrifying and angry most certainly do not mean the same thing as you claim. I am sure any literal observer would see that "awe terrifying" is synonymous with ANGER. |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by noetic17: 11:29pm On May 04, 2010 |
Bastage: I cannot disagree with u, since u are oblivious of the truth. |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by Bastage: 11:35pm On May 04, 2010 |
It's the English language guy. It has rules and words have meanings. You can't make it up to suit yourself. |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by PastorAIO: 12:53pm On May 05, 2010 |
Bastage: Oh yes he can!! Like he makes everything else up to suit himself. His christianity included. |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by noetic17: 12:57pm On May 05, 2010 |
Pastor AIO: u better dont go into that . . , .Anti-Christ talking of Christianity. |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by Nobody: 9:15am On May 06, 2010 |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by Rhino3dm: 7:21am On Jul 03, 2010 |
So what more can one deduced from the above dabate. While some are making articulate presentation, others result to provacative character assasination. The bottom line is the god of bible cannot be trusted, since he has the ability to conspire and lie. Thus, a clear case of ' the end justify the means'. What if the same 'LYING' spirit was the one that appear to Jesus, cos god has destined him and his followers to hell?. C'mon xtians! |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by Rhino3dm: 7:24am On Jul 03, 2010 |
So what more can one deduced from the above dabate. While some are making articulate presentation, others result to provacative character assasination. The bottom line is the god of bible cannot be trusted, since he has the ability to conspire and lie. Thus, a clear case of ' the end justify the means'. What if the same 'LYING' spirit was the one that appear to Jesus, cos god has destined him and his followers to hell?. C'mon xtians! |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by Romeo4real(m): 6:11pm On Jul 03, 2010 |
The bottom line is the god of bible cannot be trusted, since he has the ability to conspire and lie.This is a nonsensical statement in it entirety. God does not "need" you to trust him. You talk as if God is a man that should "earn" your trust. If you do not believe in God, do say so, but to argue that he cannot be trusted because he has the ability to conspire is silly. What if the same 'LYING' spirit was the one that appear to Jesus, cos god has destined him and his followers to hell?. Well, if it was, then the Bible would say so, wouldn't it? The Bible made it clear that God sent the lying spirit in the other scenario, didn't it? Not a worthy example with regards to this argument. |
Re: Yahweh And His Lying Angels. by Tudor6(f): 6:46pm On Jul 03, 2010 |
Romeo4real:You are the one talking nonsense. . . Several places in the bible we see god abi na jesus telling us to put our trust in him. We are told to have faith in god for everything including salvation. Do trust and faith not go hand in hand?? How do we trust something that obviously can lie and deceive? ""Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me." (John 14:1). |
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