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Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by johnw74: 1:08pm On Mar 05, 2018 |
PastorAIO: PastorAIO: PastorAIO: PastorAIo: continued lies, blasphemy, confusion and of course all round garbage 1 Like |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by PastorAIO: 1:10pm On Mar 05, 2018 |
johnw74: This your style of quoting my post and then writing something totally irrelevant underneath is very boring. If you know that you just want to spout random trash, please suit yourself but just leave my posts out of it. |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by johnw74: 1:15pm On Mar 05, 2018 |
PastorAIO: duh, you mock God and expect me to help you Pro_26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly. 1 Like |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by PastorAIO: 1:16pm On Mar 05, 2018 |
johnw74: Ho\oler Thef,, mutilation, and underlining of books Zl',rT '''■«'P""<'^y action and may result m dismissal from the University Ave Maria. Hail beautiful lamp of heaven, shining light of the world! Here art thou united with the moon, here is made the band of Mars and the conjunction of Mercury. From these three is born through through the magistery of the art, in the river bed, the strong giant whom a thousand times a thousand seek, Introitus. Our Lord, fount of goodness, inspirer of the sacred art, from whom all good things come to your faithful, have mercy. Christe. Christ, Holy one, blessed stone of the art of the science who for the salvation of the world hast inspired the light of the science, for the extirpation of the unbelievers, have mercy. Kyrie. Our Lord, divine fire, help our hearts, that we may be able, to your praise, to expand the sacraments of the art, have mercy. |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by PastorAIO: 1:20pm On Mar 05, 2018 |
johnw74: I have no expectations but the most abject stupidity of you.. And there is absolutely no way one such as yourself can ever be of any help to anyone. He who performs not practical work nor makes experiments will never attain to the least degree of mastery. - Jibberish People's hearts are like wild animals. They attach their selves to those that love and train them. |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by johnw74: 1:20pm On Mar 05, 2018 |
PastorAIO: when i said "you know nothing about truth", that is a good style concerning your post and totally relevant talking about yourself again 1 Like |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by johnw74: 1:25pm On Mar 05, 2018 |
PastorAIO: but i don't help a blasphemer that is lost and who says God lies can't you see that yet? 1 Like |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by johnw74: 1:29pm On Mar 05, 2018 |
PastorAIO: much mixed confusion there, but that's what happens to a blasphemer who say's God lies etc. etc. 1 Like |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by Nobody: 2:12pm On Mar 05, 2018 |
PastorAIO:These are 2 great quotes there, though you did not provide the authors. Do you have any training in the sufi system? Your knowledge is vast dear. Too bad the one with whom you dialog is too blind to see the treasure given to him up there. |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by PastorAIO: 2:39pm On Mar 05, 2018 |
LoJ: The first one was actually written by 'Jibberish'. Lol. There was a scholar called Jibir ibn Hayyan, whom many dolts found quite hard to understand (in keeping with the tenor of this thread). They found his words so hard for their feeble minds to understand that his name ended up giving the english language the word Jibberish, for something that sounds like Jibir. They second quote is attributed to him too, but I'm less sure that it is actually him. |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by Nobody: 2:57pm On Mar 05, 2018 |
PastorAIO:Ohh. I did not know about the Jibberish story. But with respect to the second quote, I'm told it is rather attributed rather to Ali. Whence my question about sufism, if you get what I mean. |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by UnchangeableGod: 5:41pm On Mar 05, 2018 |
PastorAIO:Sir, the faith you quoted applies to a believer, a saint of God. The faith we are talking about here is that exercised by a sinner to get saved. It is not the faith of a child of God yet. As at this moment, Rehab had not been taught the ways of God part of which is that a child of God should not lie. If she were to lie later after she had known the God of Israel and His ways, then she would be under condemnation. |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by johnw74: 11:08pm On Mar 05, 2018 |
LoJ: however not to blind to see real treasure, God's word, where God is not a liar: Luk_12:34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. PastorAIO: but join aio in his chosen destination: Rev_20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. 1 Like |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by OLAADEGBU(m): 8:50am On Mar 06, 2018 |
PastorAIO: Half truth and lies. |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by PastorAIO: 10:54pm On Mar 07, 2018 |
UnchangeableGod: This is the first I'm hearing of a distinction between the Faith of a believer and the faith of a sinner. However I'm not sure that Lying is a sign of Unrighteousness, and furthermore there are plenty of examples in the bible of believers (righteous jews) lying for a 'greater good'. Let's look at a few examples: God rewarded the Shiphrah and Puah for lying to Pharaoh. 15Then the king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, one of whom was named Shiphrah and the other Puah, 16“When you serve as midwife to the Hebrew women and see them on the birthstool, if it is a son, you shall kill him, but if it is a daughter, she shall live.” 17But the midwives feared God and did not do as the king of Egypt commanded them, but let the male children live. 18So the king of Egypt called the midwives and said to them, “Why have you done this, and let the male children live?” 19The midwives said to Pharaoh, “Because the Hebrew women are not like the Egyptian women, for they are vigorous and give birth before the midwife comes to them.” 20So God dealt well with the midwives. And the people multiplied and grew very strong. 21And because the midwives feared God, he gave them families. Exodus 1 But rather than go through all those examples, I've just got an idea. Just cut to the chase of the chase. The big boss himself. 8You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast, for my time has not yet fully come.” 9After saying this, he remained in Galilee. 10But after his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up, not publicly but in private. John 7 If Jesus, in an effort to dodge people, is happy to use some subterfuge then who is Rahab to be accused for that. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by PastorAIO: 12:25am On Mar 08, 2018 |
OLAADEGBU: Now that's faith. Knowing that you're dealing with an all powerful god that is so powerful that he doesn't need you to lie for him. Is this the lie part, or the half truth part? However if one feels the need to lie then maybe one doesn't really have faith in his absolute powers and ability. That's poor faith. Or is this the part that you consider to be a lie? Please inform us. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by PastorAIO: 11:54am On Mar 08, 2018 |
OLAADEGBU: In other words we can perhaps take the position that the ten commandments don't forbid lying, but forbid bearing False witness. i.e lies that can harm another person. It applies to the making of oaths and judicial cases. It's the intention to harm.... |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by UnchangeableGod: 1:43pm On Mar 08, 2018 |
PastorAIO:Lying is a sin and "all liars (who do not repent) will spend endless eternity in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone" (Revelation 21:. One of the evidences of salvation from sin and the new birth is the absence of the intention to lie (any longer). Now as regards the Hebrew midwives you refered to, the answer they gave to Pharaoh was the truth (though not the absolute truth). Believers are not under obligation to tell an enemy or anybody at that everything, yet whatever we say must be true. The point is, the midwives did not lie. In the case of our Perfect Example, our Lord Jesus Christ, you rightly pointed out that He used " some subterfuge in order to dodge some people". At the same time, you were trying to suggest He lied in the process. No He didn't. That was wisdom in demonstration. I am not among those condemning Rehab for lying. I have already made it clear that the lie she told was before her salvation. Let me make this point clear: that some so-called believers do lie does not justify lying. It is still a sin. Though a Christian can lie (mistakingly), a true Christian does not make a practice of (intentionally) lying. If he does, he must repent immediately and do restitution or is under condemnation. Sorry to use myself as an example. There was a day I told a lie to my boss under pressure. I did not have rest of mind until I went back to her and cleared myself not minding the consequences. That is Christianity. Anything short of this is worthless and empty profession of faith. Thank you. |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by UnchangeableGod: 2:21pm On Mar 08, 2018 |
PastorAIO:In the context above, Ahab was already under condemnation. Having virtually crossed the line, jugmemt awaited him. The execution of the judgment automatically follows. Thus lying spirits were on duty to be used to achieve this aim. All the Lord did was to allow them do their evil job. The lying spirits did not proceed from Him as the passage suggests. Rather, God gave them licence to go ahead and deceive him since he hated the truth and correction. Even when Ahab was warned by the truth prophet Micaiah, the son of Imla who he hated so much for his bluntness, he was adamant (2nd Chronicles 18:6-22,33,34). He had crossed the line. Likewise, all sinners, reprobates and blasphemers. The spirit urging them to say blasphemous things against God is from the enemy of their soul. But since, that is what they choose, God allows the spirit of deception to overtake and damn them (Romans 1:28,29). I pray it will not be too late for you I J N. The point is, lying is of the devil, not of God (John 8:44.). Thank you. |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by PastorAIO: 3:12pm On Mar 08, 2018 |
UnchangeableGod: I would like to commend you first and foremost for successfully having an exchange of dialogue without resorting to insults or avoiding the points I'm making. the midwives did not lie. I beg to differ with you on this. The passage of the bible says that they ... [color=#770077]did not do as the king of Egypt commanded them, but let the male children live[/color] To "let the male children live" they had to have been present at the birth. So the reason the male children lived was because they let them live, and not because they didn't arrive at the birth in time. They lied. lie2 He used " some subterfuge in order to dodge some people" deceit used in order to achieve one's goal. I used subterfuge in the sense of using deceit. Jesus made a statement: I am not going up to this feast The he acted: then he also went up, not publicly but in private When someone tells you that 'I'm not going' and then they go haven't they lied to you. A lie is an Intentionally False statement is it not, according to the online dictionary? |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by PastorAIO: 3:17pm On Mar 08, 2018 |
UnchangeableGod: I accept what you have said here. However my point is that He is capable of using lies and deceit to achieve his purpose, regardless of whether the victim deserved it or not. If lying is of the devil then things start to sound ominous about your religion. |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by UnchangeableGod: 4:23pm On Mar 08, 2018 |
PastorAIO:God is sovereign. As such, He uses all things good and evil to achieve His divine purpose. That does not mean He supports the evil neither does that exonerate the evil doer except he/she repents. Think about this: the betrayal and crucifixion of Christ was necessary for the salvation of humanity. Yet, the perpetrators were under condemnation except they repented. Yes, lying is the devil because it is a sin. Thank you. |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by UnchangeableGod: 4:41pm On Mar 08, 2018 |
PastorAIO:I am a Christian. So I don't insult people for their opinions, no matter how ill-intentioned or ridiculous. I don't fight for God. I just try to appeal to peoples' consciences and out of love inform them of the consequences of their choices. Again, those midwives simply did not tell the whole story. They did not lie in my opinion. Even they did, lying is still sinful and condemnable. Jesus Christ on His part meant that He was not going yet to the feast, not that He would not go at all. Jesus my Saviour, Who saved me from all my sins including the sin of lying, could not have lied. The uniform testimony of the Scriptures is that He was sinless all thorough (1st Peter 2:21-25). There are things you may not understand as human. But it is blasphemy to suggest He lied. Thank you. 1 Like |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by PastorAIO: 4:42pm On Mar 08, 2018 |
UnchangeableGod: Let's leave aside the issue of whether your God is sovereign as that will derail the subject. I'm glad that you agree that he does use evil to his purposes. I'm not talking about supporting lies, I'm talking about the use of lies. I'm glad that you've admitted that he is capable of using lies. The other part about whether he exonerates the liar (not evil doer, abeg) can be summed up as in exodus 1: 20 So God dealt well with the midwives. And the people multiplied and grew very strong. God dealt well with them as a consequence of their lies. |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by UnchangeableGod: 4:50pm On Mar 08, 2018 |
PastorAIO:I'm sorry to say, it appears you just want to be, sorry to say, mischievous. God dealt well with the midwives for not carrying out an evil decree against His people even at the risk of their lives, families and professions. That is faith. But you would rather see it that it was because of their 'lies'. Well, you are a free moral agent. Thank you. |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by PastorAIO: 4:52pm On Mar 08, 2018 |
UnchangeableGod: I really like your resolution to interact with civility. I no that some have interpreted it to mean that he was not going yet and doctored the texts accordingly. But we have ancient sources where pagans had pointed at this very verse to show a mendacious Jesus and at the time the word 'yet' was not in the text. |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by PastorAIO: 4:53pm On Mar 08, 2018 |
UnchangeableGod: Oh well, we will have to agree to disagree. |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:18pm On Mar 08, 2018 |
PastorAIO: Your context is as fake as it comes. |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:20pm On Mar 08, 2018 |
PastorAIO: I wonder what kind of lie does not harm your neighbour? |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by PastorAIO: 8:47pm On Mar 08, 2018 |
Re: Is There Anything Like "A Righteous Lie"? by PastorAIO: 8:49pm On Mar 08, 2018 |
OLAADEGBU: Telling her that her son died peacefully when in fact he was tortured to dead by ISIS. The lie helped her to cope with the loss. |
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