sooperrescue:
Una still dey this matter? The bottom line is what do we do to make naija used cars reliable. Toyota 2010 Us specs recommends 0w20 engine oil api sn while the naija used bought here tells them to use 20w50 api sl. And we are not making people understand the consequence of using mineral oils on newer cars under the guise of hot weather. The usage of the oil for prolonged period now destroys the engine and so the next buyer will find it difficult to maintain the car and so it becomes an issue to everyone.

They don't know, even if U tear their head put the knowledge, lie lie, I don't know how difficult it is to understand. They simply chose not to understand th fact the Oils have thickness and the passage of oil in newer cars had been narrowed over the years to enhance engine efficiency. And that thick oils wont go fru these narrow passages.

We just discovered that it is the same issue with hondas and kias sold locally. I have been trging to reach Toyota Nigeria but will surely do that before our next radio program. The strange thing according to a nairalander is that the toyotas sold locally requires 91 ron unleaded fuel. All toyotas from Dubai uses premium fuel and when imported into the country, with the heavy 20w50 oil, that car is gone

sooperrescue:
Una still dey this matter? The bottom line is what do we do to make naija used cars reliable. Toyota 2010 Us specs recommends 0w20 engine oil api sn while the naija used bought here tells them to use 20w50 api sl. And we are not making people understand the consequence of using mineral oils on newer cars under the guise of hot weather. The usage of the oil for prolonged period now destroys the engine and so the next buyer will find it difficult to maintain the car and so it becomes an issue to everyone.

I disagree, using only 20w50 will not only increase the efficiency of the catalytic converter by lubricating the inner compartment but will also increase the effectiveness of the o2 sensors by keeping the engine cool. this is why we need more 20w50 in the country; because of our hot weather.

also make sure u know how to import vehicle parts or else u would have violated one of the major rules of vehicle maintenance!

cc: Mobil Nigeria
cc: legalwealth

dancok, u are officially relieved of ur official duties.
someone more intelligent in auto issues has dethroned u, indefinitely.
u will be called to resume only when necessary

Ipfreely:

I don't 'feel attacked'. If I did my response wouldn't be so calm. I made several posts about this matter on this thread, all of which constitute my take on the matter. Your mistake was reading one post and jumping to erroneous conclusions. Try to avoid that. And yes, their naivety played a part in this matter. Read my posts if you're actually interested in my take on the matter.

Our naivety did not sell a 2008 car as 2011 car45 did.
And my naivety did not give us a stand up report for a dead car,cars45 did
what my naivety did is to make me trust a company with dubious operation
And this tread is to prevent others from falling prey

obekediamondfuto:



I disagree, using only 20w50 will not only increase the efficiency of the catalytic converter by lubricating the inner compartment but will also increase the effectiveness of the o2 sensors by keeping the engine cool. this is why we need more 20w50 in the country; because of our hot weather.

also make sure u know how to import vehicle parts or else u would have violated one of the major rules of vehicle maintenance!

cc: Mobil Nigeria
cc: legalwealth

dancok, u are officially relieved of ur official duties.
someone more intelligent in auto issues has dethroned u, indefinitely.
u will be called to resume only when necessary

The sarcasm better be thick and dripping.

Hayastark:


Our naivety did not sell a 2008 car as 2011 car45 did.
And my naivety did not give us a stand up report for a dead car,cars45 did
what my naivety did is to make me trust a company with dubious operation
And this tread is to prevent others for falling prey

That's alright. I understand that. You'll realize I didn't entirely blame you for your painful experience. You fell for an age old used car sales scam. I'm still waiting to see the denouement.

Hayastark:


Our naivety did not sell a 2008 car as 2011 car45 did.
And my naivety did not give us a stand up report for a dead car,cars45 did
what my naivety did is to make me trust a company with dubious operation
And this tread is to prevent others from falling prey

I'm with you.

It's sad to see their mouthpieces running helter-skelter.

Not to worry, we will all get what's coming to us.

EgunMogaji:
@Hayastark

Care to give us a status update? Have you been contacted by Car45? I'll bet you haven't been contacted.

I haven't being contacted by the crooks, I guess their damage control does not involve me, but they will here from us soon

You guys should stop lying about not selling cars.
What do they do with the purchase cars? Smoke it?

Hayastark:
You guys should stop lying about not selling cars.
What do they do with the purchase cars? Smoke it?

that is what their rep said. I am not a staff. Why did you not post the name of the person you had the transaction with.and the acct you paid money into.

Hmmm.....I wonder how many bought and resold the car before OP?..... that car is a moneymaker for the company.

sooperrescue:
that is what their rep said. I am not a staff. Why did you not post the name of the person you had the transaction with.and the acct you paid money into.

Wtf is this one saying,

I will suggest you deal with the company instead of not trying to understand. You have the sympathy of everyone on the forum so just wait for their response or go the whole way and call out the person you paid to and take them to court over a car that you have already sold back to the sane dealer and collected money for that same car.

OP, are you looking for sympathy or to be made whole by Cars45?

obekediamondfuto:



I disagree, using only 20w50 will not only increase the efficiency of the catalytic converter by lubricating the inner compartment but will also increase the effectiveness of the o2 sensors by keeping the engine cool. this is why we need more 20w50 in the country; because of our hot weather.

also make sure u know how to import vehicle parts or else u would have violated one of the major rules of vehicle maintenance!

cc: Mobil Nigeria
cc: legalwealth

dancok, u are officially relieved of ur official duties.
someone more intelligent in auto issues has dethroned u, indefinitely.
u will be called to resume only when necessary

hmmm, 20w50 oiling the catalyst of a toyota. So what happens to the american specs that does not require 20w50 api sl? Their o2 sensors and catalyst are destroyed. You are one of those people with the hot weather theory and it is the reason some recent naija used cars are dead. Mobil oil claims that it is because Nigerians dont have money hence they are bringing in obsolete oils for cheap maintenance. Have you seen Dubai's Cepsa oil? It is an Api SN 20w50. The dealers in Nigeria uses API SL 20w50 and here you talk about oiling the catalyst. What about sludge and carbon? If the US specs says 0w20 all weather and the SA specs says 20w50 our weather, then the SA spec is substandard. And besides, it is companies that buy new Toyotas locally while individuals buy from the US. So it is the companies that should be wary of the local brand new toyotas which are not brand new.

obekediamondfuto:



I disagree, using only 20w50 will not only increase the efficiency of the catalytic converter by lubricating the inner compartment but will also increase the effectiveness of the o2 sensors by keeping the engine cool. this is why we need more 20w50 in the country; because of our hot weather.

also make sure u know how to import vehicle parts or else u would have violated one of the major rules of vehicle maintenance!

cc: Mobil Nigeria
cc: legalwealth

dancok, u are officially relieved of ur official duties.
someone more intelligent in auto issues has dethroned u, indefinitely.
u will be called to resume only when necessary

You are deliberately going astray. Why?

angels09:


You are deliberately going astray. Why?

u get it right, it takes a bush blended demeanor to understand these realities, a backyard balmed entity might not comprehend cos he hasn't been well exposed to the situations that mould such intellect

EgunMogaji:
OP, are you looking for sympathy or to be made whole by Cars45?

Who sympathy help, this is an exposea and a lot of shady people will not like it.

angels09:


You are deliberately going astray. Why?

watchout this #dancok u all are calling will destroy u very soon.

dancok:
watchout this #dancok u all are calling will destroy u very soon.

Why are you quoting me? Be careful. I know you physically. Don't think you are anonymous. If you doubt me try nonsense here again.

dancok:
watchout this #dancok u all are calling will destroy u very soon.

hahahahahahaha relax, u have been relieved of ur duties, u shud be happy now that u can post without fear of the DEMEANORS coming for u! how far the ride, any progress? relax, u can talk now

angels09:

Why are you quoting me? Be careful. I know you physically. Don't think you are anonymous. If you doubt me try nonsense here again.

monkey dey chop baboon don deh work. ironic isn't it?

pity the guy

AutoJosh’s take on the issue between Hayastark and Cars45 which has been trending on Nairaland is rather late but better than never.

I absolutely agree that a fraud was committed which is disheartening. Car buyers in Nigeria are frequently susceptible to deception; this is what always prompts me to write and publish several articles that can help protect the next victim from being preyed upon. Some of these articles can be found at the end of this post.

After reading through Hayastark’s thread again on Wednesday (7th of March), I decided to contact her to get some more details and lend support. As usual, unfounded conclusions had been jumped into and name-calling had become the order of her Nairaland thread.

The first thing I did that morning was to send a mail to Hayastark asking for permission to talk to her, make more findings and escalate the issue as much as possible. I stated my phone number in the mail and confirmed to her that I was not in anyway related to Cars45 as the objective of my car blog is to provide valuable information about cars to existing and potential car users in Nigeria.

She responded thanking me for my interest and said she already shared every detail online and will not talk to anyone except Cars45 if that will make her get the money back.


On Thursday morning, I decided to contact Cars45 since Hayastark was not forthcoming. I placed a call to their customer care number but it was a bad idea because they only depleted my airtime for nothing. All I got over the phone was that, I was not calling for my transaction and they could not attend to me. After that call, I sent a message to them on Twitter and a response came back with a phone number to call in no time.

After introducing myself to the Cars45’s staff, I went straight to my questions and she gave the following answers:

1. AutoJosh: Have you seen the fraud allegation leveled against your company on Nairaland?
Cars45’s staff: Yes

2. AutoJosh: Does Cars45 sell cars to individuals?
Cars45 : No

3. AutoJosh: Who sold the car to the client?
Cars45: A dealer, as Cars45 does not sell to individuals.

4. AutoJosh: Can I get the inspection reports of the car?
Cars45: Yes.

5. AutoJosh: Was the car converted from Right to Left-Hand-Drive?
Cars45: No

6. AutoJosh: Did the aggrieved client escalate the issue directly to Cars45?
Cars45: No, We only saw it on Nairaland

7. AutoJosh: I’d like to visit the place the car was sold to her.
Cars45: Okay. Not a problem

8. AutoJosh: Is tomorrow (Friday) okay for the visit?
Cars45: No, because we have an event tomorrow and I’ll be busy all day. Can we do Monday?

9. AutoJosh: Monday is far I replied. Can we make it today, which is Thursday?
Cars45: Okay, let’s do 4pm but call at 3pm to confirm I will be available



My colleague and myself got to their Head Office at Agidingbi, Ikeja, Lagos around 4:30 pm and met with 2 of their staff. We started with most of the questions I already asked over the phone, then we were debriefed on how Cars45 operates.

How Cars45 Operates

You walk into Cars45 to sell your vehicle, they inspect it, then upload images and details on their bid platform where about 1,000 car dealers have access to bid on it. The dealers can make a purchase using the “Bid” or “Buy Now” option. The bid lasts for 30 minutes and prices are determined by 3 major factors, market demand, availability of parts and condition of the vehicle.

Cars45 pays the seller immediately the bid is done. The dealer that won the bid is expected to pay Cars45 and pick up the vehicle within 72 hours. There is also a “Lockdown Program” where the dealers only pay 30% of the value of the vehicle after the bid and pays the balance of 70% at a later date or after the dealer has sold the vehicle.

Each vehicle comes with a 200-point inspection report, Auto Reg report as well as custom import duty report.

The company is currently introducing a “Merchant Program” where individuals can become merchants and earn commissions when they refer buyers to the dealers. These merchants will eventually be supported with N5 million start-up funds to help them become dealers as well. This N5 million grant will be in partnership with Lagos State Employment Trust Fund.



Carsbazr



Now done at their Head Office, we took a short drive to their car sales lot, called Carsbazr. We were escorted by one of the two staff that welcomed us earlier and the following findings were made at the Carsbazr, which is the same place Hayastark bought her car.

1. The Carsbazr car lot has notice boards on the premises notifying prospective car buyers of the following:

- End users cannot buy directly from Carsbazr
- All cars can only be bought through dealers.
- You can bring your technician for double verification.
- Always ensure you request for and go through car reports.

See image below..



2. Buyers only relate with the dealers. They negotiate with the dealers and pay to the dealers. The Carsbazr car lot was made available to dealers for two major reasons. The first reason is, some of them don’t have adequate space to park the cars they’ve won. While the second reason is, some partake in the Cars45 “Lockdown Program”.

3. The car sales lot is actually not dark. These photos below were snapped around 5:30pm and no artificial brightness was added.



4. The vehicles in the lot have detailed history reports. Most of the vehicles had a printed summary of their problems pasted on the windshields. They also used inscriptions with white chalk stating the problems on some of the vehicles. See the green arrows below.



5. Cars45 could not provide the inspection reports of the car in question because they were yet to receive a complaint from Hayastark. So they didn’t have some vital details, which would facilitate their investigation. e.g Name of the client, name of the dealer, registration number of the car, chassis number and the centre the car was sold.

6. There is also a possibility that the dealer presented fake documents or deceived Hayastark in order to sell the car to her. However, this cannot be ascertained until the requested documents are reviewed. Pending that, I was told that Cars45 is currently clamping down the dealers in a bid to investigate the issue and other fraudulent acts.

7. Buyers are not allowed to do a test drive due to the lockdown program and security breaches from car buyers in the past.

8. I asked if it was the same dealer that sold the car to both buyers but the company was yet to determine that.



After the meeting with Cars45, I sent the mail below to Hayastark on Thursday Night.

Good evening, This is Tunde again from AutoJosh. I will like to schedule an appointment for us to meet with you and Cars45 in a bid to investigate and resolve this issue.

Kindly give us a feedback on how we can make this happen.

Regards.



Around12 noon the next day (Friday), I sent another mail as seen below to Hayastark since there was no response from her.

Good morning, I still await your response.

Pending your feedback, I’ll like to clarify some things.

1. How did you find out about the yard you bought the car from? Were you referred there from a Cars45 office or a car dealer took you there from their independent car lot?

2. Who attended to you at the yard? Was it a Cars45 staff or the dealer?

3. While the transaction was going on, did you believe you were buying the car from Cars45 or from the dealer who took you to the yard?

4. Did you pay the funds used to purchase the car into Cars45’s bank account or into the dealers account?

5. Do you believe the person that attended to you fraudulently provided a fake inspection report or you believe the deception was from Cars45?

6. Will you be willing to assist with a copy of both inspection reports? i.e the inspection report you got when buying the car as 2011 and the one you got when selling the car as 2008?

7. Will you be willing to provide the VIN (Vehicle Identification Number) of the car? This will reveal more details about the car in question.

8. How did your driver’s mechanic ascertain the car was converted from Right-Hand-Drive to Left-Hand-Drive? What reasons did the mechanic give?

9. To what extent did you escalate this issue within Cars45? Did you contact their office to lodge a complaint about the entire scenario? What was their response if you did?

10. Did you complain to the agent that sold the car to you? What response did she give to you if you did?

11. I will also appreciate if you can link me up with the actual person that sold the car to you as well as the second buyer that bought the car for N1.4m. I have some questions to ask them e.g. Is it the same agent that sold the same car to the second buyer and what inspection report was given to the second buyer?

Your response will go a long way in ensuring this issue is resolved as well as enlighten others not to fall prey.

Thank you for your anticipated support.



She responded to the above mail that Friday night saying “Thank you for your interest. I am not interested in telling my story through you. I am also active on social media I will tell my story through this platform when I am ready”.


In conclusion, I support that Hayastark should pursue this case as much as she can in order to get her refunds. However, is her case really meant to be against Cars45 or the dealer with possible help from Cars45?

Below are AutoJosh’s concerns on the things Hayastark may need to know to enable her have a better case.

1. Hayastark is yet to provide convincing evidence to prove her case. This seems more like an appeal to pity rather than presentation of facts. She should get facts like comparison between both inspection reports as against the actual details found on the car. Another fact she should present is evidence of payment to reveal she paid into Cars45’s bank account when she bought the car.

2. It is difficult to agree that Cars45 was the one who defrauded her since she impliedly stated that she saw the car on another car selling website. That website led her and Dh to the dealer who took them to Carsbazr and there are notice boards at the car lot which clearly states that they can only deal from those dealers.

3. At the beginning of her complaint, she confirmed that Cars45 is set up in a way that you can sell your car to them but you need to go through an agent when you want to buy. Hayastark does not seem to be standing firm by this claim. After agreeing that Cars45 does not sell cars to individuals, she still went ahead to say they should stop lying about not selling cars. What do they do with the purchased cars? Smoke them? She asked in one of her comments.

4. It is surprising that Hayastark does not want to give audience to anyone who wants to know more than what she has written on Nairaland. On the contrary, Cars45 gave more audience even though they are yet to provide the documents we asked for. At this point, I can’t but think that the onus lies on the Hayastark to back up her claims with adequate evidence and documents. It should be easier to get evidence from an aggrieved individual than from an accused corporate organization that has processes and systems, which may amount to delayed response.

5. Someone replied Hayastark that that Toyota Corolla model does not come in Right-Hand-Drives but I beg to differ. Some people are actually not aware that the Right-Hand-Drives of that Toyota Corolla model are actually imported from South Africa and converted in Nigeria. I still wonder why people do this.

6. No one is going to force you to buy a vehicle without test-driving it. Never heard of that before. Moreover, bulk of the tokunbo vehicles that are shipped to Nigeria are bought from auction yards and most auction yards don’t allow you do a test drive. The best you can do is to start the engines and engage the gears with your leg on the brakes to see if the vehicles have the capacity to move under their own power but moving them is a No No. You don’t even drive the car out of their storage yard after making payment. It’s a forklift that usually takes them out even if the vehicle does not have a single defect.

7. In her original post, she said she was excited and even said “Wow” when she saw the car had 26,000 mileage. Note that 26,000 mileage on a 7 – 9 year old car should get you more worried instead of being excited. An exceptionally low mileage is a major green light to probe further.

8. The screenshot of the inspection report Hayastark posted on Nairaland does not show the name and details of the car the report belongs to. She should provide the two inspection reports of when she bought and sold the car. She should also schedule an appointment with the new buyer that bought the car for N1.4m and let an independent person go inspect the car in comparison with all the available inspection reports.

9. This seems more like a case of she bought a car from a dealer and sold to Cars45.

10. Why is she yet to meet with the appropriate authorities at Cars45? Why is she not giving audience to someone who tried to schedule an appointment for her to meet with them?

11. Finally, what Hayastark went through is a sad event, which Cars45 should make effort to resolve, and mitigate against future occurrences. At the same time, it is surprising that the alleged victim only complained about her ordeal to online sympathizers with no attempt to resolve the issue with the company and no response to vital questions requesting her to buttress her claim.


As one of the measures to curtail the excesses of the car dealers, I suggest that Cars45 should provide computer workstations at the Carsbarz car lot that will enable the buyers verify all the inspection documents of all vehicles independently without the interference of the dealers. This is because some dealers will want to ride on the goodwill of Cars45 to take advantage of car buyers. Personally, I gave two of my Nigerian used cars to two different dealers to help me sell at different times, They removed the number plates and presented the cars as Tokunbo. I had to withdraw the cars from them when I found out.



For avoidance of doubt, this post solely represents AutoJosh’s opinion about this issue.


Lest I forget, let me clarify that AutoJosh’s earlier post dated 2nd of March, 2018 was neither motivated by Hayastark’s complaint nor sponsored by Cars45. You can see the post titled “ Cars45, Do They Actually Buy Your Car In 45 Minutes? – By AutoJosh” here… https://autojosh.com/cars45-actually-sell-car-45-minutes-autojosh/


Please note that it is always quicker and easier to reach me through the contact page on my website (www.autojosh.com) than through Nairaland.


Don’t forget to also see some of the informative articles I have written and published on AutoJosh to help protect Nigerians from becoming victims in the hands of car dealers and private sellers:

9 Mistakes Car Buyers In Nigeria Usually Make
https://autojosh.com/9-mistakes-car-buyers-nigeria-usually-make/

5 Things Car Dealers In Nigeria Don’t Want Car Buyers To Know
https://autojosh.com/car-dealers-in-nigeria/

12 things to do before buying a Nigerian used car
https://autojosh.com/1532-2/

1 step you must never skip before you buy a car in Nigeria
https://autojosh.com/1-step-you-must-never-skip-before-you-buy-any-car-in-nigeria/

The scam of 6 months Nigerian used cars for sale
https://autojosh.com/the-scam-of-6-months-nigerian-used-cars-for-sale/

12 Reasons To Do A Car VIN Check Before You Buy That Car
https://autojosh.com/12-reasons-car-vin-check-buy-car/

7 steps to buy your car from USA and ship to Nigeria without leaving your bedroom
https://autojosh.com/car-from-usa/

Don’t fall for this cheap scam by a Nigerian car dealer
https://autojosh.com/let-us-behave-ourselves/


www.autojosh.com

...Your Mobility, Our Priority.

The first thing a worthy lawyer, of which I encourage Hayastark to absolutely retain, is to ascertain if the signage below was in display when she was doing commerce.

Hayastark bought the vehicle from Car45/CarBazr location, so they’re culpable. Even if partly.

You still come across thinly veiled as a Cars45 representative. I’m most likely wrong but that is my perception.

I also encourage Hayastark not to discuss her case with anyone except her legal representative.

I intend to be selling in a warehouse also with no test drives. This is not bad as long as your merchandise is fit for the purpose and you stand behind your product with a warranty.

autojosh:
AutoJosh’s take on the issue between Hayastark and Cars45 which has been trending on Nairaland is rather late but better than never.

I absolutely agree that a fraud was committed which is disheartening. Car buyers in Nigeria are frequently susceptible to deception; this is what always prompts me to write and publish several articles that can help protect the next victim from being preyed upon. Some of these articles can be found at the end of this post...

Wow. I don't even know what to say again.

The plot thickens.

Is 'Cars45 the Auto department of APC??

by Hayastark: 10:02pm
Autojosh I do not owe you details of anything, I dont know why this is hard to accept, even though I know you have being paid to do this, I dont care about your opinion
I was defrauded by cars45 and I know how they operate
if you really want to investigate this try to sell a car to them and try to buy from them with an open mind

In conclusion I was defrauded by cars45 and what I want to do about that is my business and prerogatives.
NIGERIANS YOU HAVE BEING WARNED DO WHAT EVER YOU WANT WITH THIS EXPOSURE
PS the agents who advertise this cars on other platform are Id card caring staffs of cars45 on a salary and commission not car dealers (it like buying from shoprite and they tell you after that you bought from the sales girl not shoprite)
Also at the selling points there isn't any agent bidding online it is all automated according to their imput, I know this because I experienced this any1 who doubts try to sell your car to them and experience it for you self