ChinenyeN:

Regarding the language discussion, linguists actually have yet to come to an agreement on that. There is actually a divide as to whether or not to consider Igbo as one language or a cluster of languages. As for "Ngwa language" and those exceptions (definitely much less than 1/4 of the Igbo population), I would have to disagree. They aren't part of Ngwa language. They don't speak Ngwa; just something similar and intelligible (we all largely share the same progenitors). We recognize our speech forms as being closely related, but we do not see each other as speaking "the same way", in the general sense. So, we recognize our speech forms as separate languages.

Regarding your comments about states. . election, diplomats, and a military are not necessarily requirements of a state, but I see what you're getting at. The actual requirements of a state though, are a centralized territorial political system with administrative and judicial institutions, as well as separation in wealth and status, corresponding with some distribution of authority and influence. How that is set up though is largely irrelevant, just as long as the set-up is there. We Ngwa did/do though, have a cult-like, pan-Ngwa military and policing institution, now largely defunct (to the best of my knowledge).  

Regarding contrasting group consciousnesses, I feel that you and I are basically saying the same thing.

Regarding self-identification, such is necessary for the formation of a group consciousness/identity, or do you believe otherwise?

Answering your question about my reaction to someone insulting Igbo, it would honestly depend on how/where the insult is targeted. I can't really give a blanket answer on that one.

Regarding your foreign/non-indigenous statement, your comparison would make much more sense (at least, to me) if said people did not comprise of one political body. For example, your North and South Korea comparison makes sense, but it actually doesn't help your stance, because it reflects the situation in Igboland (albeit, to a lesser degree), and if nothing else, that comparison actually supports what I've been saying about our cultural, political, and consciousness fragmentation, and how we continually aid in perpetuating our respective group consciousnesses.

Look, Ezeagu, I really would prefer to not argue debate with you, of all people. So I just want you to understand that all this that I have been saying is simply my understanding and interpretation of the reality of our situation (how it was, is, and has been). I'm only trying to exhibit (at least, based off my interpretation and understanding) a realistic outlook on this Igbo "situation". I'm not going to sugarcoat anything I say, and I'm not here to deny Igbo (as I've stated severally). I only hope that you, unlike some others here, would understand this.

No problem ChineyeN, my problem is not even with state creation to be honest but with some of the arguments you put forth in its support. I think emphasizing a groups differences, especially in such a 'hot' environment like Africa, is 'political suicide'. An Ngwa state isn't completely out of the question, but basing the need for it on the insinuation that Ngwa is a whole new ethnic group (or anything that even sounds something like that) will only confuse people, especially young people; this can be seen in many areas of 'Igboland'. The Igbo in Nigeria do not have any form of authority or power that is enough to be lenient with serious political issues like a 'united front'. I understand that  you see yourself as Ngwa first, believe me you're not the only one who identifies with their community first, but this should not compromise the power of garrisoning. I think I can confidently say that even in the Ngwa group people identify with their villages before Ngwa; I know I'm right because villages have wars. My point is that you should see Ngwa and 'Igboness' how you would see Ngwa villages and 'Ngwaness'.

This all I have written may not be your intent, but I'm just cautioning you a little bit that divisions can go on past clans and tribes (or states, I don't know) and can hit a crises where everyman is for themselves, you know what that means don't you. . . . . . . Anarchy. That's all I have to say.

I hear what you're saying Ezeagu, but given the reality of our situation, I still don't completely agree. If though, you all could come up with an alternate solution to this Igbo situation, then I'd be glad to hear it. As it stands now though, I remain a proud Igbo (and a much much prouder Ngwa), but I seriously don't believe in a one and indivisible Igbo identity. Sorry to disappoint any of you pan-Igbo, one-consciousness subscribers.

ChinenyeN:

I seriously don't believe in a one and indivisible Igbo identity.

What does that actually mean?

I don't believe we are one people with one identity.

ChinenyeN:

I don't believe we are one people with one identity.

That is a very loose statement. An identity is what you are, an Ngwa female Australian citizen probably does not have the exact same identity as you. A Cherokee identifies with the Cherokee nation, that does not mean he is not native American. Maybe you can explain what you mean by 'one people' bearing in mind that an Ngwa person will say they're Igbo first before Ngwa (if at all) in a foreign land and/or to foreign people. I think this is where the train terminates; the thread is dead now, I think.

The thread has been dying for a while now, yes. Well, I just hope that people aren't still misunderstanding my stance, because there's really no other way for me to simply state it.

**** 006 enters****

Reads the posts after his last post, chuckles

**** Exits quietly ****

Hope Reps have started working on those states.

Those who are too smart to engage in politics are governed by those who are dumber - Plato

If this happens then you guys will need to go back to Nursrey School to learn the 46 states and their capitals
while I will be the teacher

Why do dis politicians like causing more problems 4 dis country dis is already carrying catalogue of problems.

loading.
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its a decision made, according to the news
i don't think we making our opinion would stop or reverse the decision
cos it has been argued or deliberated on several times in the house
and finally decided.//.
for me, let us pray it works and solve part of our problem

Yes ooooo. I supported that. what left for us is prayer.

I don't really understand the way this country is being governed sef?

Is there any strategic plan or map that we are supposed to be following in this country at all? Anybody can just sleep and wake up and suggest any rubbish and the next thing it becomes a bill to be debated.

Do we have any thing like a roadmap we are trying to follow? Is there any objective we are working towards? and ways of achieving them? Or is it just live and get-by attitude?

Why cant our leaders just sit down, create a SMART idea of how this country can become a developed one, and develop a strategic plan of achieving that idea, be it short term or long term.

Johnnny:

Is there any strategic plan or map that we are supposed to be following in this country at all?

No

^^^

No, there is no ‘strategic plan or map’, because a lot of the fatuous bills passed in our national assembly have been, at best, knee jerk reactions. Most have been the end products of avaricious leveraging by our ignorant politicians.

Do we need more states? For the sake of everything sane, HELL, NO! It’s not in our overall economic interests as a nation.

Can one understand the agitation for it? Most certainly, Yes! The agitation has nothing to do with economics, but more to do with perceived ‘marginalisation’. I honestly don’t like that word, ‘marginalisation, but seeing that it has somehow integrated itself into our everyday discourse in Nigeria, I will use it to make my point.

Marginalisation.  It can be political, economic and yes, even psychological. Some ethnic groups (or subgroups) feel that the present political structures have marginalised them within their states to the point where they don’t feel that they are achieving their fullest potentials as a people given the status quo. They hope that a re-juggling of the structures would give them greater access to the machineries of power and therefore better control of their destiny.

What am i saying? Well let’s take the Igbo nation as an example.

In the days of the East Central State the ‘southern Igbo’s’ felt marginalised by their ‘Northern brothers’, the guys from the Anambra-Enugu axis,  and felt jubilant when the state was broken down into Imo and Anambra in 1976. Even within that arrangement there remained a sense of perceived marginalisation, leading to the agitation for more states.  The Ngwas, for instance, who were mostly Civil servants, were agitating for their own state, hoping that when the military government starting talking about state creation, they would not be lumbered together in the same state with their more ruthless and business savvy brothers from the Igbere-Abiriba axis, whom they thought they would not be able to compete with economically and therefore politically.

So after Abia State was carved out of Imo in 1991, most Ngwa people did not feel jubilant with the new political arrangements.

The rest is history. The Ngwa are yet to have a governor from amongst them, in spite of being the biggest ethnic subgroup in the state and also the most educated. I may be biased with regards to the latter, given that my evidence is strictly anecdotal.

But the problem doesn’t stop there! Even within Ala Ngwa, Isiala Ngwa people are maligned. In Isiala Ngwa people complain about Ngwa Ukwu. In Ngwa Ukwu the problem is Ahiaba Okpuala. In Ahiaba Okpuala it’s the people from the kith and kin of the Eze that are deemed to be the problem etc etc.

So would state creation solve the problem? Not unless you give me a state where i wouldn’t have to struggle politically with the Eze’s children who have benefitted immensely from their association with the governor and his predecessor and as a result have amassed stupendous wealth and power, leaving me and my kindred, feeling marginalised!

Creating states may not be our overall economic interests as a nation for now, but with this kind of government we have in Nigeria, the only areal developed or

remember while in government is that state capital and the Area were the governor or minister of works come from. But creating more states will bring government

more closer to the people, creating more jobs for people in that environment reducing money at center, which can even make them to think positively probably.

Is Ibadan state included?>>>, Please kindly let me have the list of states to be created,

You are asking Ibadan state. Remember Oke Ogun too are agitating for one.

Please make it 11, I want my fathers 'compound' in Ikoyi to become a State! Nonsense and we call ourselves one nation?!

let them create the state for God sake! what is your problem with that. I beg, make una no forget Ogbomoso too.

wat n wiGuy's u gast standup n wiseup, so ur children don't curse u n aska u wia wen things wia going rung.

isimilar:
on a lighter note, i agree with the idea of a nairaland state. That will be awesome because it will be made up of people with character, intellect and common values. that will be the very begininning of true, genuine and lasting democracy in Nigeria. I suggest that we move a motion for this and forward it to the house of reps and senate. Opinions please.

i debunk d idea of a nairaland state,eye problem will b rampant because GARRI will b cheap.(2)seun and his nairaland state house of assembly MODERATORS wil bcome a government of dictators.

ChinenyeN:
We're trying to educate each other. You all just want to wishfully think (making a very good attempt at establishing what never was), and I just want to be realistic about things, as they are now.

..

Before we can discuss our identity. ..
We have to understand that we are caged...in Abia state...
We need a separate state first..
We should not pretend to be what we are not...
Even in South East Ngwa are not fully accepted... that can be seen in how the demonize Okezie as if his sin is bigger than that of OUK...
Secondly Ngwa youth need to be lectured ...
Our fathers made a very big mistake...
This is why i always admire the Ikwerre people of being courageous...
We also need media capability...

ezeagu:


That is a very loose statement. An identity is what you are, an Ngwa female Australian citizen probably does not have the exact same identity as you. A Cherokee identifies with the Cherokee nation, that does not mean he is not native American. Maybe you can explain what you mean by 'one people' bearing in mind that an Ngwa person will say they're Igbo first before Ngwa (if at all) in a foreign land and/or to foreign people. I think this is where the train terminates; the thread is dead now, I think.

..
If you live in Abia state...
You will realize that a lot of things need to be discussed

ezeagu:


That is a very loose statement. An identity is what you are, an Ngwa female Australian citizen probably does not have the exact same identity as you. A Cherokee identifies with the Cherokee nation, that does not mean he is not native American. Maybe you can explain what you mean by 'one people' bearing in mind that an Ngwa person will say they're Igbo first before Ngwa (if at all) in a foreign land and/or to foreign people. I think this is where the train terminates; the thread is dead now, I think.

..
If you live in Abia state...
You will realize that a lot of things that should be discussed are