Until someone tell me the name of the scientist that made man or designed the reproductive system of human beings and animals I will forever believe there is God.

The thing that made man is much more powerful than man and does not obey the law of physics or chemistry and that thing is called God.

The most intelligent and power thing in the universe does not use that substance called brain..

infofta:
Until someone tell me the name of the scientist that made man or designed the reproductive system of human beings and animals I will forever believe there is God.

The thing that made man is much more powerful than man and does not obey the law of physics or chemistry and that thing is called God.

The most intelligent and power thing in the universe does not use that substance called brain..

Which God are you referring to please?

budaatum:

Go read some of my old posts and you will get a response to your question.

Wow. See work wey this man want send me.

Why not.just.post it here? After this tiring day, i shd go digging for your old post, so that what will happen nah?

budaatum:

Sorry. If you remember, that nice woman in church? I am not into converting others to atheism. As the word says, seek (for yourself) and you shall find, and you shall be free.

Which word says that?

pantheism- there is no much difference between the pantheist position and the atheist position. the atheist can refer to the pantheist god as the big bang. the only difference is one is intelligent and the other isn't. plus the pantheist God isn't involved in human affairs, so his existence is of the same effect with his inexistence.

deism- a god that created everything and left it alone. almost identical to the above. again not so much different from the atheist position. this god is also not involved in human affairs, so his existence is inconsequential. no point in arguing that such god exists except to show he exists. he left which means he doesn't want us to bother about him. like a painter who makes a painting and ran away. we find the painting, we know it was painted, we know the painter doesn't want us to bother about him. so we focus on the painting and leave the painter alone.
most atheist wouldn't have an issue with the above gods, since their existence is inconsequential. they can be assumed inexistent.

theism- this god created the universe, and rules it. he wants to have a relationship with its creations. this is the god most atheist are against e. g hopefullandlord. for example atheist often make a description of 4999 gods. these gods are all/mostly theist gods. this god is involved in human affairs so it's only logical that his effects would be felt or proven. most times these gods suspend the natural laws of the universe which is(should be) impossible. this god also gives instructions on how to live and how the world is. it's only logical to examine this god's claim to know if he is true.
many theist gods also claim all knowledge/power they produce claims on how the world works. most of these claims are falsified. they show these gods are not real.
some of these gods claim to be all good but their actions speak otherwise.

if these gods are involved in our affairs, we should be able to show concrete evidence of their existence. this concrete evidence must be exclusive to that god which we are to prove.

the theist god is the only god that can be refuted effectively since he claims to be involved in our affairs. if his effects are not felt, it means such god probably doesn't exist.

butterflylion:
I repeat, is there no atheist who can discuss the concept of God outside the God specifications they are used to?

you do know whatever point you prove on this thread will most likely be for the pantheist or deist god. they won't be able to validate Yahweh or most other theist god.

if you do make a point for a theist god, it would apply to almost all of them. that would still leave a problem of which of them is correct.

dalaman:
What is God, because God means different things to different people. God to the pantheist is very different to what God is to the Muslim. God to the Christian is totally different to what the Taoist believes as God or what a scientologist believes as God. You can NOT just talk about God without specifically telling us which God because God has NO universal acceptance or definition.

Again what is God?

I don't know if this has been trashed but what does God mean to you?

Gggg102:
pantheism- there is no difference between the pantheist position and the atheist position. the atheist can refer to the pantheist god as the big bang. the only difference is one is intelligent and the other isn't. plus the pantheist God isn't involved in human affairs, so his existence is of the same effect with his inexistence.

deism- a god that created everything and left it alone. almost identical to the above. again not so much different from the atheist position. this god is also not involved in human affairs, so his existence is inconsequential. no point in arguing that such god exists except to show he exists. he left which means he doesn't want us to bother about him. like a painter who makes a painting and ran away. we find the painting, we know it was painted, we know the painter doesn't want us to bother about him. so we focus on the painting and leave the painter alone.
most atheist wouldn't have an issue with the above gods, since their existence is inconsequential. they can be assumed inexistent.

theism- this god created the universe, and rules it. he wants to have a relationship with its creations. this is the god most atheist are against e. g hopefullandlord. for example atheist often make a description of 4999 gods. these gods are all/mostly theist gods. this god is involved in human affairs so it's only logical that his effects would be felt or proven. most times these gods suspend the natural laws of the universe which is(should be) impossible. this god also gives instructions on how to live and how the world is. it's only logical to examine this god's claim to know if he is true.
many theist gods also claim all knowledge/power they produce claims on how the world works. most of these claims are falsified. they show these gods are not real.
some of these gods claim to be all good but their actions speak otherwise.

if these gods are involved in our affairs, we should be able to show concrete evidence of their existence. this concrete evidence must be exclusive to that god which we are to prove.

the theist god is the only god that can be refuted effectively since he claims to be involved in our affairs. if his effects are not felt, it means such god probably doesn't exist.

I made this comment earlier on this thread.

In theism, God is the creator and sustainer of the universe, while in deism, God is the creator, but not the sustainer, of the universe. In pantheism, God is the universe itself. In atheism, God is not believed to exist, while God is deemed unknown or unknowable within the context of agnosticism

Atheism ---- There is no God

Deism ------ God exists but isn't bothered about us.

Pantheism ----- My God is the universe (so God exists to me as the universe)

Deism and pantheism have no similarities with atheism. Both recognise a God while atheism rejects a God.

That being said, focusing on your comment about 4999 gods which you refer to as theist gods can you list them out please. Also you made a lot of knowledgeable assertions regarding these 4999 gods such as their claims being falsified, inability to suspend the laws of the universe, inability to be felt or heard, etc

Question. Can you show me how you went through these 4999 gods to conclusively make the assertions you made.

For you to be able to achieve this then you must first of all know all of them by name, operation, function and ability and then you went through an elimination process.

Can you share this knowledge.

Gggg102:


you do know whatever point you prove on this thread will most likely be for the pantheist or deist god. they won't be able to validate Yahweh or most other theist god.

if you do make a point for a theist god, it would apply to almost all of them. that would still leave a problem of which of them is correct.

I have no problem with that and it does not concern me which is right or wrong. That is not the focus of this thread. Thank you.

Seun:
Talking about God without specifying the God you’re talking about is not really meaningful.

“Let’s talk about the Country. Remember we are not talking about Nigeria, Israel or Saudi Arabia. Just the Country.”

Not really meaningful.

The word God is exclusive to the creator of all things. Anything else is regarded with the word god. shouldn't you know that already?

butterflylion:


I made this comment earlier on this thread.




Atheism ---- There is no God

Deism ------ God exists but isn't bothered about us.

so why do we bother about him?
it's like you to an average chinese man. you are practically unexisting to yourselves. the atheist will be wrong but it has no effect on him.


"Pantheism ----- My God is the universe (so God exists to me as the universe)"

pantheism is more or less an intelligent big bang. the pantheist claims the big bang is god, the atheist doesn't. again the atheist being wrong is inconsequential.

"Deism and pantheism have no similarities with atheism. Both recognise a God while atheism rejects a God."

they recognize a god that is inconsequential. an inconsequential god is no different from a no god except for the fact that one exists.
atheists being wrong has no effect.


"That being said, focusing on your comment about 4999 gods which you refer to as theist gods can you list them out please. Also you made a lot of knowledgeable assertions regarding these 4999 gods such as their claims being falsified, inability to suspend the laws of the universe, inability to be felt or heard, etc

Question. Can you show me how you went through these 4999 gods to conclusively make the assertions you made.

For you to be able to achieve this then you must first of all know all of them by name, operation, function and ability and then you went through an elimination process.

Can you share this knowledge. "

I have only heard atheists talk about 4999 gods. I do not know if the number is accurate, I haven't gone through them and I haven't made a claim concerning them.

most of these gods by the way are forgotten and now just make up mythologies e. g Zeus, Odin, Thor, Ra, Mayan gods...

Gggg102:


so why do we bother about him?
it's like you to an average chinese man. you are practically unexisting to yourselves. the atheist will be wrong but it has no effect on him.


"Pantheism ----- My God is the universe (so God exists to me as the universe)"

pantheism is more or less an intelligent big bang. the pantheist claims the big bang is god, the atheist doesn't. again the atheist being wrong is inconsequential.

"Deism and pantheism have no similarities with atheism. Both recognise a God while atheism rejects a God."

they recognize a god that is inconsequential. an inconsequential god is no different from a no god except for the fact that one exists.
atheists being wrong has no effect.


"That being said, focusing on your comment about 4999 gods which you refer to as theist gods can you list them out please. Also you made a lot of knowledgeable assertions regarding these 4999 gods such as their claims being falsified, inability to suspend the laws of the universe, inability to be felt or heard, etc

Question. Can you show me how you went through these 4999 gods to conclusively make the assertions you made.

For you to be able to achieve this then you must first of all know all of them by name, operation, function and ability and then you went through an elimination process.

Can you share this knowledge. "

I have only heard atheists talk about 4999 gods. I do not know if the number is accurate, I haven't gone through them and I haven't made a claim concerning them.

most of these gods by the way are forgotten and now just make up mythologies e. g Zeus, Odin, Thor, Ra, Mayan gods...

How can you claim the God a deist believes in is inconsequential when a deist believes in a creator God but only says he is not involved with his creation and a pantheist believes in the universe as his god which also does not make it inconsequential but the opposite.

So you have not gone through this list of 4999 gods yet you said "such god does not exist". How did you arrive at this conclusion without going through the 4999 list of gods?

butterflylion:


How can you claim the God a deist believes in is inconsequential when a deist believes in a creator God but only says he is not involved with his creation and a pantheist believes in the universe as his god which also does not make it inconsequential but the opposite.

they are inconsequential in the sense that admitting their existence would not change an atheist's worldview. their existence does not contradict science which most atheists hold on to as the ultimate truth. a pantheist god and a deist god easily fits into all the laws of science, a pantheist/deist god can easily be reconciled with evolution. a pantheist or deist god does not contrast scientific views. it would be very easy for an atheist to accept a deist/pantheist god. both do not require him to change his lifestyle.
think of it this way; a father abandoned his son when he was born. the boy will grow up having no father even if is father is still alive.

butterflylion:




So you have not gone through this list of 4999 gods yet you said "such god does not exist". How did you arrive at this conclusion without going through the 4999 list of gods?

I never said such god does not exist. I said most atheists say these 4999 god's don't exist.

by the way this position is held by other theists religion. especially monotheists.

the Christian believes all other gods are powerless idols. as Yahweh is the only God.

the Muslim believes there is no god but Allah.

have the christian/muslim gone through all the other gods to know their god is the only one?

Gggg102:


I never said such god does not exist. I said most atheists say these 4999 god's don't exist.

by the way this position is held by other theists religion. especially monotheists.

the Christian believes all other gods are powerless idols. as Yahweh is the only God.

the Muslim believes there is no god but Allah.

have the christian/muslim gone through all the other gods to know their god is the only one?

This thread is not about Yahweh or Allah but about a general God concept.

Are you not an atheist?

Gggg102:


they are inconsequential in the sense that admitting their existence would not change an atheist's worldview. their existence does not contradict science which most atheists hold on to as the ultimate truth. a pantheist god and a deist god easily fits into all the laws of science, a pantheist/deist god can easily be reconciled with evolution. a pantheist or deist god does not contrast scientific views. it would be very easy for an atheist to accept a deist/pantheist god. both do not require him to change his lifestyle.
think of it this way; a father abandoned his son when he was born. the boy will grow up having no father even if is father is still alive.

Can also be rephrased thus

A father abandoned his son when he was born, the boy grows up not seeing any father does not mean his father isn't still alive or never ever was.

butterflylion:


Can also be rephrased thus

A father abandoned his son when he was born, the boy grows up not seeing any father does not mean his father isn't still alive or never ever was.

exactly. the father is alive but he has no effect on the son's life. he was never involved. to the son, he never had a father.

if the pantheist or deist god is true, it has no effect on an atheist in general. he is only wrong about his existence.

BTW most atheists argue against theist gods & religion.

butterflylion:


This thread is not about Yahweh or Allah but about a general God concept.

Are you not an atheist?

no


a general god includes the pantheist, deist and theist gods which includes Allah/Yahweh.


if you are excluding Allah/Yahweh/theist god and you mean pantheist/deist gods by general god, this discussion will be pointless as a pantheist/deist god cannot be proven or disproved. you can't know for sure if he exists or not.

e. g the pantheist god. if he truly became the universe, how did humans know he existed?


if the deist god existed, how did humans know he existed when he abandoned the universe after creating it?

note- both of are non interventionists.

how do you know an invisible and intangible person is around you if he doesn't reveal himself to you?

Gggg102:


no


a general god includes the pantheist, deist and theist gods which includes Allah/Yahweh.


if you are excluding Allah/Yahweh/theist god and you mean pantheist/deist gods by general god, this discussion will be pointless as a pantheist/deist god cannot be proven or disproved. you can't know for sure if he exists or not.

e. g the pantheist god. if he truly became the universe, how did humans know he existed?


if the deist god existed, how did humans know he existed when he abandoned the universe after creating it?

note- both of are non interventionists.

how do you know an invisible and intangible person is around you if he doesn't reveal himself to you?

Read the OP again

Gggg102:


exactly. the father is alive but he has no effect on the son's life. he was never involved. to the son, he never had a father.

if the pantheist or deist god is true, it has no effect on an atheist in general. he is only wrong about his existence.

BTW most atheists argue against theist gods & religion.

All 4999 of them? Remember the focus of the OP.

Monotheism!

butterflylion:


All 4999 of them? Remember the focus of the OP.

Monotheism!

mostly the popular ones.
majority of the 4999 are irrelevant today or they have minimal effect.

monotheists also assist in this regards. they show other monotheistic beliefs are false while upholding theirs.
at the end of the day, all monotheistic religions disprove each other while upholding their faith. as a neutral person, you won't be able to pick from them because one's monotheistic claim is as good as the others.

I think this is where atheists (anti theists) come in to claim all are false. because all of them cannot be right at the same time but they can all be false at the same time.

butterflylion:


Read the OP again

if you are talking about the monotheistic god only irrespective of religion, then all religions are doing a good job of proving the others wrong.

Lol.....I like how everyone pointed out the op's dishonesty from page 1.

Butterflyl1on, keep looking for mugu that will waste time disproving 5000 versions of God for you instead of debating about the one God you believe in.

Emmanystone:

Wow. See work wey this man want send me.

Why not.just.post it here? After this tiring day, i shd go digging for your old post, so that what will happen nah?

So, I, who has done the work writing it in the first place, should now go back and dig it up for you?

To be honest, I wouldn't mind, normally, but just not for you considering how you are quick to affect my tiny sensitivities, and how you react to similar opinions.

Just pick through any thread with atheism in the title and you'd see the same sentiments expressed, or, wait till someone more deserving of my time turns up and read my responses then. I will bear you in mind, I promise.

Emmanystone:

Which word says that?

The word according to me, buda.

butterflylion:


You have never gone over this with me so stop trying to be coy.

Pull them up and post them here. How can I dig up posts I never saw.

I haven't made any assertions on this thread thus far. It has been an open thread which i refused to define God or selectively focus on any god.

Yes you have, numerous times, and you've read my responses to the same question when posed by others.

You, sir, are not taking up that much of my time on your merry go round!

Gggg102:



mostly the popular ones.
majority of the 4999 are irrelevant today or they have minimal effect.

You seem to be all over the place. You cannot say the below earlier and be saying the above now.

Your words below earlier

I have only heard atheists talk about 4999 gods. I do not know if the number is accurate, I haven't gone through them and I haven't made a claim concerning them.

most of these gods by the way are forgotten and now just make up mythologies e. g Zeus, Odin, Thor, Ra, Mayan gods...

One minute you say you do not know these gods and have not gone through them and the next you rule them out and say MAJORITY are irrelevant. What are these majority?

monotheists also assist in this regards. they show other monotheistic beliefs are false while upholding theirs.
at the end of the day, all monotheistic religions disprove each other while upholding their faith. as a neutral person, you won't be able to pick from them because one's monotheistic claim is as good as the others.

Monotheists do not disprove each other. They focus on approach or doctrine and not outright existence or inexstence.

I think this is where atheists (anti theists) come in to claim all are false. because all of them cannot be right at the same time but they can all be false at the same time.

This is my point. You as an atheist cannot base your assessment on anothers claims without carrying out your own findings as people who believe in evidence. Do you see how lazy atheism is? They simply make assertions not bound to proof or experiences but simply as the words from mischief.

Like I said, monotheists do not disprove existence. They rather focus on approach and doctrine. If monotheists disprove existence why then do we talk about God AND gods and not just GOD?

Gggg102:


if you are talking about the monotheistic god only irrespective of religion, then all religions are doing a good job of proving the others wrong.

Proving wrong is not proving existence wrong. Proving wrong is proving method or approach or doctrine wrong. We do not discuss existence because we KNOW that other gods exist.

Is this hard to understand?

Atheism focuses on inexistence. So you cannot use anothers experiences to assert for yourself. Where is your own experience as an atheist who believes in self evidence?

budaatum:

Yes you have, numerous times, and you've read my responses to the same question when posed by others.

You, sir, are not taking up that much of my time on your merry go round!

No I have not. Kindly copy and paste it here. I am not asking you to do a rewrite.

TheSorrowfulMan:
Smh

Please take this to the thread where it belongs. It is not for this thread

superhumanist:
Lol.....I like how everyone pointed out the op's dishonesty from page 1.

Butterflyl1on, keep looking for mugu that will waste time disproving 5000 versions of God for you instead of debating about the one God you believe in.

It's obvious that this thread is beyond your level which is why you are stuck as well and cannot make any comment beyond the above (as usual)

This thread is on the concept of God and not a specific God.