kovah:
ignorance....Hmmm...okay....My happypagan.... Millions of spermatozoa swimming to fertilize an egg....U were d fastest... Hence u were born...U have no memory of u swimming dat fast...It happened natural.... God is in nature... Nature is our science...I believe in something more Dan myself... Something greater than me... Apparently u do too... Happypagan....Hence d attention seeking name...

You write well. Please address my post.

DeLioncourt:


if you were intelligent, you'd know i'm referring to the theological version of god. and not the philosophical or scientific.
please, don't stress me.
I know the word god means different things to different people. I am talking about the god of religion. If you aren't arguing along that line, don't mention me.

then use the theological name for him... And I say prove it ... That the theological god doesn't exist ...not with sentiments but proven facts...

kovah:
then use the theological name for him... And I say prove it ... That the theological god doesn't exist ...not with sentiments but proven facts...

Like I said, the onus isn't on me to prove that god doesn't exist.

Give me proof that he exists and I will debunk your proofs.
Simple.

And the theological name for him is god! Different religions have different words to define what they believe it but it is ultimately called god.

HappyPagan:

Same. Your ignorance doesn't prove God exist.

Except you claim to understand and know God?

never ignorant of God's existence...The few laws science have been able to come up with shows us that there is intelligence in our design and the world...If I can understand 1percent of the known proven laws...I understand d tiniest part of God and know he exist

author=DeLioncourt post=66848373]

I'll address your 3 paragraphs.
I don't believe in the existence of gods and I strongly believe that they don't exist. There is more evidence to the non-existence of god than to his existence. (going into all that will be tedious)

I would like to see the evidence you have for the non existence of God. You say it may be tedious but I still insist on seeing it.

The inconsistencies in the man and nature is enough proof of god's non-existence.

I do not see any Inconsistencies between man and nature. All I see is cooperation. I still want to see your evidence.

Please, state one thing I believe in that can't be proven empirically since you know me so well all of a sudden.

I will state more than one.

1. Logical and mathematical truths cannot be proven by science. Logic presupposes science.

2. Metaphysical truths (like the past was not created 5 minutes ago with an appearance of age)

3. Ethical truths

4. Aesthetic truths

5. Science itself (since science is based on assumptions that can’t be proven)


6. the existence of the universe (why is there universe at all?) This cannot be proven scientifically

7. the beginning of the universe (assuming it had one) also cannot be proven

8. the existence of scientific laws


9. the existence of conscious minds

10. the fine-tuning of the physical constants

11. most of the things that are of greatest importance to us such as love, meaning, purpose and the need for significance.

12. most of the things that happen in our lives such as why a person lives in a certain place, works in a particular job or marries a particular person.

You might argue that one day science will explain everything, but this response is just a matter of blind faith and is confused. You can use a hammer as a great tool for hitting a nail into wood, but it isn’t the right kind of tool for fixing my mobile phone.

Similarly, science is a great way to make sense of many features of the physical universe, but it isn’t the right kind of ‘tool’ for explaining the things listed above

I believe in the human race. Yes, man can be evil and cruel but that's all part of the package. Man can also be kind and caring and sympathetic. also part of the package. I believe the ability of people to be moral and humane without the intervention of a supposed deity.

For years we have seen the extent humans can go in their thirst for recognition, conquest, etc. Wars have come and gone and nobody learned from the past and wars are here again. Nobody learned from past deaths and killings and murders as all these are still very much around today and getting worse with the growth of sophisticated methods.

It is easier to do evil than to do good due to our flawed nature. For example I have seen you insult someone right on this thread even without him provoking you. This shows how evil is strong in man.

If a foundation to a building is wrong or broken, there is no structure that can stand on it. It would only be a matter of time and the foundation which is faulty would be exposed again.

Countries with moral laws still would go to war with other countries. Still would jail, kill, their citizens or anyone who breaks those laws. Men who break laws themselves now sit as judge over others who also break laws and condemn them. Is that being humane?

kovah:
The few laws science have been able to come up with shows us that there is intelligence in our design and the world....

This is very true and I totally concur.

Butterflyleo:


I would like to see the evidence you have for the non existence of God. You say it may be tedious but I still insist on seeing it.



I do not see any Inconsistencies between man and nature. All I see is cooperation. I still want to see your evidence.



I will state more than one.

1. Logical and mathematical truths cannot be proven by science. Logic presupposes science.

2. Metaphysical truths (like the past was not created 5 minutes ago with an appearance of age)

3. Ethical truths

4. Aesthetic truths

5. Science itself (since science is based on assumptions that can’t be proven)


6. the existence of the universe (why is there universe at all?) This cannot be proven scientifically

7. the beginning of the universe (assuming it had one) also cannot be proven

8. the existence of scientific laws


9. the existence of conscious minds

10. the fine-tuning of the physical constants

11. most of the things that are of greatest importance to us such as love, meaning, purpose and the need for significance.

12. most of the things that happen in our lives such as why a person lives in a certain place, works in a particular job or marries a particular person.

You might argue that one day science will explain everything, but this response is just a matter of blind faith and is confused. You can use a hammer as a great tool for hitting a nail into wood, but it isn’t the right kind of tool for fixing my mobile phone.

Similarly, science is a great way to make sense of many features of the physical universe, but it isn’t the right kind of ‘tool’ for explaining the things listed above



For years we have seen the extent humans can go in their thirst for recognition, conquest, etc. Wars have come and gone and nobody learned from the past and wars are here again. Nobody learned from past deaths and killings and murders as all these are still very much around today and getting worse with the growth of sophisticated methods.

It is easier to do evil than to do good due to our flawed nature. For example I have seen you insult someone right on this thread even without him provoking you. This shows how evil is strong in man.

If a foundation to a building is wrong or broken, there is no structure that can stand on it. It would only be a matter of time and the foundation which is faulty would be exposed again.

Countries with moral laws still would go to war with other countries. Still would jail, kill, their citizens or anyone who breaks those laws. Men who break laws themselves now sit as judge over others who also break laws and condemn them. Is that being humane?

This discussion will be a long one that i'd rather not continue on this thread.
If you wish to continue it, I can contact you via email or a method of your choosing.

As for the fellow i insulted, he had it coming and/or most likely insulted me first.

DeLioncourt:


Like I said, the onus isn't on me to prove that god doesn't exist.

Give me proof that he exists and I will debunk your proofs.
Simple.

And the theological name for him is god! Different religions have different words to define what they believe it but it is ultimately called god.

theology is written script based on belief...In a language...Dat isn't English... God is English..B more specific in the god u r saying doesn't exist.. The Christian god..The Muslim god.. The Jewish god... The Chinese god..Or Japanese God..And like the air u can't see but need to breath... That doesn't need an explanation from u y it exist..I wonder y dis strong disillusion.... u will eventually know the truth...Like a phone u and I will go out of date...Will u b well liked and appreciated like a Nokia phone or forgotten like the others when a new version of ideology springs up

DeLioncourt:


This discussion will be a long one that i'd rather not continue on this thread.
If you wish to continue it, I can contact you via email or a method of your choosing.

As for the fellow i insulted, he had it coming and/or most likely insulted me first.

Open a separate thread let's discuss it openly just you and me.

Butterflyleo:


Open a separate thread let's discuss it openly just you and me.

I'll call it the "Does god exist? A debate".

Cool?

HappyPagan:

You write well. Please address my post.

SonofLucifer how you doing? Been a while.

kovah:
theology is written script based on belief...In a language...Dat isn't English... God is English..B more specific in the god u r saying doesn't exist.. The Christian god..The Muslim god.. The Jewish god... The Chinese god..Or Japanese God..And like the air u can't see but need to breath... That doesn't need an explanation from u y it exist..I wonder y dis strong disillusion.... u will eventually know the truth...Like a phone u and I will go out of date...Will u b well liked and appreciated like a Nokia phone or forgotten like the others when a new version of ideology springs up

I said this earlier...i am referring to all religious gods. this includes the christian, muslim, buddhist, mormon, chinese, indian, greek and so on...

DeLioncourt:


I'll call it the "Does god exist? A debate".

Cool?

Call it whatever you want. My interest is to see the evidence you say you have for the non existence of God and the attributes of the God you have in mind to make you speak about inconsistencies between man and nature.

Butterflyleo:


SonofLucifer how you doing? Been a while.

Yeah. Went on pilgrimage to burn my soul. How you doing, shapeshifter?

DeLioncourt:


I said this earlier...i am referring to all religious gods. this includes the christian, muslim, buddhist, mormon, chinese, indian, greek and so on...

If you say this then I just might ask you to show me through the process of elimination, how you got to know that each one does not exist.

Profound knowledge gives us the ability to make profound statements. Putting it another way, If you were the custodian of Omniscience then you would have access to information based on your Omniscience. Are you Omniscient?

HappyPagan:

Yeah. Went on pilgrimage to burn my soul. How you doing, shapeshifter?

Hope it got crispy and sooty with the burning. You are the happypagan and I am still a butterlyleo/lion and you call me a shapeshifter?

DeLioncourt:


I said this earlier...i am referring to all religious gods. this includes the christian, muslim, buddhist, mormon, chinese, indian, greek and so on...

so u r saying u don't believe in anything other than ur own exsistant..Lol... Imagine a world where there is no god...Things fall afar and the centre can't hold... All u r doing is crying havoc and letting loose the dogs of war... Scientifically I have given u proven facts for our very exsistance ....I have even broken it down to d simplest analogy...With spermatozoa... Whether the source u believe in is called god...Is irrelevant...Be wise

Butterflyleo:


Hope it got crispy and sooty with the burning. You are the happypagan and I am still a butterlyleo/lion and you call me a shapeshifter?

Thanks. Don't come and spoil my happiness... Greatest spiritual lesson I learnt this break was avoiding negative Christian energy... free men shouldn't mix with slaves.

Go, carry your cross, Brother. Leave my sins for me.

HappyPagan:

Thanks. Don't come and spoil my happiness... Greatest spiritual lesson I learnt this break was avoiding negative Christian energy... free men shouldn't mix with slaves.

Go, carry your cross, Brother. Leave my sins for me.

See the negative energy you are already throwing at me from you and yet you talk about me having negative energy.

I do not wish to share in your sins which had to cause you to burn your soul while on hiatus.

Hope you are truly happy as a pagan now sha and not son of Lucifer. Maybe your next hiatus would see you emerge as Happyritualist.

Butterflyleo:


See the negative energy you are already throwing at me.... Happyritualist.

Confirming the words the Prophets said to me.

'Upon thy return to the wastelands of the Land on the Naira, your first test will be a lion, a deformed one, weak on the inside, hungry for positive energy...
Lust and desire will attract him towards you. He will come smiling like a friend... Beware!!! Attack before he attacks, trigger his trigger, he will do as you do. '

HappyPagan:

Confirming the words the Prophets said to me.

'Upon thy return to the wastelands of the Land on the Naira, your first test will be a lion, a deformed one, weak on the inside, hungry for positive energy...
Lust and desire will attract him towards you. He will come smiling like a friend... Beware!!! Attack before he attacks, trigger his trigger, he will do as you do. '

LMAO
Your prophet is wise

HappyPagan:

Confirming the words the Prophets said to me.

'Upon thy return to the wastelands of the Land on the Naira, your first test will be a lion, a deformed one, weak on the inside, hungry for positive energy...
Lust and desire will attract him towards you. He will come smiling like a friend... Beware!!! Attack before he attacks, trigger his trigger, he will do as you do. '

The same prophets you loathe? I hear you. Actually your words are lies now proven because I was not your first test. Your post with happypagan shows others have tested you long before I came along.

So saying hello to you translated to a test?

Yet debating with others was no test.

Guy waka far abeg.

DeLioncourt:


If your feasibility study is sound and you've done all your homework, your proposition should be able to withstand any scrutiny and not depend on religion or tribe or any other factors (except business related) to be approved.
Once you start hoping for religion to be a grounds on which your idea is accepted, that idea is most likely sub-standard and likely to fail.

Yeah, right, perfect me with my sound study. What do you take me for, a god? I really hate when people project their own view on things! But let me help you.

I, buda, categorically state, as I continously have, that there is an imaginary million pounds in my bank account with which I intend to buy a spanking brand new red Ferarri. I just haven't figured out yet how to convince the salesman that he has the money after I've given it him. Now if he's a believer, I can just tell him and he might believe. But if it's you, I better just keep to my current mode of walking I guess.

DeLioncourt, I insist that you should believe, if you are a Ferrari salesman or the investor who will invest in my imperfect, probably lazy put together business plan!

DeLioncourt:


lmao... an atheist is already a non-believer...
you believe in fairy tales... that's why you get so angry when you're called out. You know in your heart that you may be wrong. lmao

I've heard that before, though it usually goes "the atheist knows in his or her heart that there is gods" (I think they mean the atheist is lying). As to your lmao, this is the point where you get an "e pain u" (though I do confess that I have to be lying myself to claim you are hurt when in reality, you laugh at me. Maybe e pain u deep down, no?)

I don't believe in fairy tales! And I am not wrong, least not in my opinion. Call me a Christian again and I will personally come over here and thunder fire my mouth!

DeLioncourt:


you obviously still didn't understand what I typed the first two times.
It will be pointless explaining again

Do you realise that my response will have a particular meaning to you if you held the position that I do understand what you have written, and a different one if you think I do not understand? It's not at least that I have not bothered to express myself clearly, or is it? I do seriously take extra care to ensure all my letters are in the right and proper place you know, meaning exactly what I intend them to mean. After all, it's not like I can expect you to read my mind or anything like that, and since you are a non-believer, you would not be the sort to hold on to preconceived opinions (beliefs) about me now, or is butter correct in claiming a non-believer has to fill the vacuum and believe any odd things to replace a belief in gods? I rhetorically ask, you a "non-believing atheist", or a "non-believing believing atheist" like butter would rather paint you?

It is not pointless explaining to me. I believe that explaining to me is the most pointful conversation you will have today! I just need observe the competition, or have an inflated opinion about myself! Let me know which when the day is over!

I wonder why people compare air that one cannot see with an invisible non-phonomenal god. Everytime I see people do it, I just wonder if they have considered what they say. If I were to place you in an airproof room and sucked out all the so called 'invisible air', would you be in a position to claim because you did not see it to begin with that I was not sucking out anything?

Tell me what would happen to you if what I sucked out was god please?

HappyPagan:

Yeah. Went on pilgrimage to burn my soul. How you doing, shapeshifter?

SonofLucifer? You changed name? Welcome back.

budaatum:

SonofLucifer? You changed name? Welcome back.

Lost my password. Couldn't retrieve it as I used a disposable email add for that account. How you dey, Brother? I see you are still fighting the Good fight.

HappyPagan:

Lost my password. Couldn't retrieve it as I used a disposable email add for that account. How you dey, Brother? I see you are still fighting the Good fight.

Yeah, I'm here. Been catching fun lately finding I shouldn't take some people too seriously. Thankfully, once in a while, someone I can't fool comes along and I get lessoned.

budaatum:
I wonder why people compare air that one cannot see with an invisible non-phonomenal god. Everytime I see people do it, I just wonder if they have considered what they say. If I were to place you in an airproof room and sucked out all the so called 'invisible air', would you be in a position to claim because you did not see it to begin with that I was not sucking out anything?

Tell me what would happen to you if what I sucked out was god please?

probably become a delusional individual and call my self delioncourt or ba.... Whatever

Butterflyleo:


... r post with happypagan shows others have tested you long before I came along...

ah, still going through young men's profiles. Minister of Mining, the Great Pedo... I hail...

budaatum:
I wonder why people compare air that one cannot see with an invisible non-phonomenal god. Everytime I see people do it, I just wonder if they have considered what they say. If I were to place you in an airproof room and sucked out all the so called 'invisible air', would you be in a position to claim because you did not see it to begin with that I was not sucking out anything?

Tell me what would happen to you if what I sucked out was god please?

I'm sorry to say but this makes absolutely no sense...
I dont remember comparing air to anything