AZeD1:

1) I don't know the cost of power in the north 2) This was my initial post, see the part in red.

SMH

CodeTemplar:
Are we going personal now. Just answer that small introductory technology question and stop abusing me.

I have just been toying with you all along.

You need togrow up and stop majoring in minors.

It is very easy to tell your age.

Focus on what is really important and not peripheralities.

aribisala0:
I have just been toying with you all along.

You need togrow up and stop majoring in minors.

It is very easy to tell your age.

Focus on what is really important and not peripheralities.

Step up and step down transformers u don't know and want to fight.

CodeTemplar:
Step up and step down transformers u don't know and want to fight.

Why should I know when I can employ people who do ? How does knowing help me?

Grow up!!

aribisala0:
Why should I know when I can employ people who do ? How does knowing help me?

Grow up!!

Then employ them and let them do the talking instead of misinforming the public and making a mockery of yourself. I didn't even direct the question at you.

Take it easy and invest your age-telling talent in introductory technology revision. Mr age teller.

CodeTemplar:
Then employ them and let them do the talking instead of misinforming the public and making a mockery of yourself. I didn't even direct the question at you.

Take it easy and invest your age-telling talent in introductory technology revision. Mr age teller.

This is a social thread not a technical conference Sonny

Sonnyboy
When you start asking questions like what is pi , theta or what is x or y you are going off at a tangent in a geeky way.

Adult conversations are not held that way. No one needs to know any of those details to discuss the issue here. It is not relevant AT ALL what step up and step down mean except that you wish to bolster your insecure little ego.

So for you it means electricity running upstairs and jumping downstairs it makes no diffference

aribisala0:

This is a social thread not a technical conference Sonny

Sonnyboy
When you start asking questions like what is pi , theta or what is x or y you are going off at a tangent in a geeky way.

Adult conversations are not held that way. No one needs to know any of those details to discuss the issue here. It is not relevant AT ALL what step up and step down mean except that you wish to bolster your insecure little ego.

So for you it means electricity running upstairs and jumping downstairs it makes no diffference

That question was apt for the guy who was claiming he understands how transmission system works. Step up. and step down transformers are crucial nonnegotiable parts of any efficient transmission system. So get out if don't know it.

The question still stands though.

Cc: AZeD1

CodeTemplar:
That question was apt for the guy who was claiming he understands how transmission system works. Step up. and step down transformers are crucial nonnegotiable parts of any efficient transmission system. So get out if don't know it.

The question still stands though.

Cc: AZeD1

aribisala0 has answered the question for you.

Lagos state would "license" companies to build power plants (small 50mw - medium 500mw). Those companies would partner with Eko and Ikeja disco because they would be using their infrastructure. TCN would be totally boycotted.

CodeTemplar:
That question was apt for the guy who was claiming he understands how transmission system works. Step up. and step down transformers are crucial nonnegotiable parts of any efficient transmission system. So get out if don't know it.

The question still stands though.

Cc: AZeD1

Still not sure how knowing that equips anyone better to paricipate on this thread
Is it any more relevant than knowing how to charge a phone?

AZeD1:

How does this relate of economics of scale? This was your initial post



And I told you that the size of the power plant doesn't matter because the price of power is determined NERC so even if you build a 3000MW power plant, you would still sell at the same price with someone who builds a 200MW power plant.


Economy of scale happens when production increase with fewer inputs cost (This usually happens when you buy in bulk) but when it comes to power, the gas required to power a 56MW turbine is different from what is required to power 132MW turbine. CCGT has no factor here because you can use CCGT in a small plant and a big one.

Oga take it easy now. CCGT start with about 100MW.

AZeD1:

I'm not confusing power generation with consumption. The guy was/is saying build bigger plants to make power cheaper and I'm saying power price is determined by the regulator not by the size of your plant so economy of scale is not a factor.

I think cost of power generation is at the plant is different from and do affect cost by NERC.
I can also assure that scale of economy is as presented by @ so far. Don't know he isn't posting his/her findings here but he has been right to a large extent so far.
Lagos is trying to build competitive plants and I think they should build large ones that can benefit from CCGT arrangement.

AZeD1:

If you had constant power you would not need an inverter. Just you would not need a generator.

I don't think the point is constant power but cheap and competitive power. If the CCGT thing is done it can save as high as N20 per KwHr. I implore you to research it and codertempler to keep his antics in check. Let's learn from each other and make this forum a sane place.

Sibrah:


Oga take it easy now. CCGT start with about 100MW.

That was an example.

aribisala0:
Still not sure how knowing that equips anyone better to paricipate on this thread
Is it any more relevant than knowing how to charge a phone?

Haba! Since you don't know what transformers are used for I don't expect you to know how they relate to a topic you have demonstrated a poor grasp of?

By the way, are you AZeD1? he erroneously referenced you.

Desyner:
I don't think the point is constant power but cheap and competitive power. If the CCGT thing is done it can save as high as N20 per KwHr. I implore you to research it and codertempler to keep his antics in check. Let's learn from each other and make this forum a sane place.

You are missing the point.
codertempler wrote the following on page one

"Solution will be to build a large scaled power plant with good scale of economy to drive down price of the power that will be eventually sold to industries"

And I responded that the size of the power plant is not a factor in pricing. Pricing is set by NERC so Mr A building a 500MW plant doesn't me his power would be cheaper than Mr B who's plant is 250MW.

That's our argument. It has nothing to do with the technology of the turbine.

AZeD1:


aribisala0 has answered the question for you.

Lagos state would "license" companies to build power plants (small 50mw - medium 500mw). Those companies would partner with Eko and Ikeja disco because they would be using their infrastructure. TCN would be totally boycotted.

Please sample the post where aribisala0 answered my question. I can't recall seeing a post like that sir.

CodeTemplar:
Haba! Since you don't know what transformers are used for I don't expect you to know how they relate to a topic you have demonstrated a poor grasp of?

By the way, are you AZeD1? he erroneously referenced you.

Grow up boy. That means do not take yourself so seriously.

CodeTemplar:
Please sample the post where aribisala0 answered my question. I can't recall seeing a post like that sir.

I think you are a little bit autistic

AZeD1:

You are missing the point.
codertempler wrote the following on page one


And I responded that the size of the power plant is not a factor in pricing. Pricing is set by NERC so Mr A building a 500MW plant doesn't me his power would be cheaper than Mr B who's plant is 250MW.

That's our argument. It has nothing to do with the technology of the turbine.

Your second paragraph is the reason I introduced CCGT. Since you have rejected a proven industry fact, I know you are determined to hold on to your flawed assertions.

CodeTemplar:
Your second paragraph is the reason I introduced CCGT. Since you have rejected a proven industry fact, I know you are determined to hold on to your flawed assertions.

I really don't know how to explain this anymore but I will try

If Mr A builds a 500MW power plant with CCGT and Mrs B builds a 250MW power plant also with CCGT, the CCGT is no longer a factor because they are both using CCGT.

On the other hand, if Mr A builds a 132MW power plant with CCGT and Mrs B builds a 150MW a regular gas fired power plant(not CCGT), Mr A would get more efficiency from his plant than Mrs B even though Mr A has a small plant.

It goes back to my point, size doesn't affect economy of scale when it comes to power, technology does.

AZeD1:


I really don't know how to explain this anymore but I will try

If Mr A builds a 500MW power plant with CCGT and Mrs B builds a 250MW power plant also with CCGT, the CCGT is no longer a factor because they are both using CCGT.

On the other hand, if Mr A builds a 132MW power plant with CCGT and Mrs B builds a 150MW a regular gas fired power plant(not CCGT), Mr A would get more efficiency from his plant than Mrs B even though Mr A has a small plant.

It goes back to my point, size doesn't affect economy of scale when it comes to power, technology does.

Good to know you finally accepted the reality of CCGT gas plants.
Going by your above explanation, what you may not realize is that CCGT plants usually starts around the 100MW mark because smaller plants don't give off enough heat to drive much pistons.
The implication of this is that if Lagos goes for gas turbines of significantly less than 100MW capacity then they will end up with generated power that's around N20 more expensive for every KwHr generated.

My first post on this thread was just a expression of my concern about that extra circa N20 per KwHr that can makea the power generated less competitive against those from the huge power plants lurking around Lagos.

aribisala0:
I think you are a little bit autistic

You are entitled to your opinion. I still request you show me that post since you feel obliged to insult me for a question I didn't ask you directly.

CodeTemplar:
Good to know you finally accepted the reality of CCGT gas plants.
Going by your above explanation, what you may not realize is that CCGT plants usually starts around the 100MW mark because smaller plants don't give off enough heat to drive much pistons.
The implication of this is that if Lagos goes for gas turbines of significantly less than 100MW capacity then they will end up with generated power that's around N20 more expensive for every KwHr generated.

My first post on this thread was just a expression of my concern about that extra circa N20 per KwHr that can makea the power generated less competitive against those from the huge power plants lurking around Lagos.

Lagos is not really building any power plant, its all private companies and the plan is to have the smallest 50MW. Also to avoid losses that come with sending electricity over long distance and our ineffective distribution system, the want operators to build close to the consumer i.e if you want to supply FESTAC build it in FESTAC.

All Lagos state government is/would be doing is buying the power from the companies directly to avoid the current liquidity issue affecting the current system today. That is why they passed the power law so that if you by pass the meter, LASG would come after you.

You should find one of the commissioner's briefing on youtube. He spoke about it extensively. Said they already had a gas supplier down because they do not want to rely on the ND.

As for the bold, your initial statement used the word size, its what I was trying to argue with you. If you had said technology this would not have gotten to 3 pages.

Have a great day.

AZeD1:

Lagos is not really building any power plant, its all private companies and the plan is to have the smallest 50MW. Also to avoid losses that come with sending electricity over long distance and our ineffective distribution system, the want operators to build close to the consumer i.e if you want to supply FESTAC build it in FESTAC.

All Lagos state government is/would be doing is buying the power from the companies directly to avoid the current liquidity issue affecting the current system today. That is why they passed the power law so that if you by pass the meter, LASG would come after you.

You should find one of the commissioner's briefing on youtube. He spoke about it extensively. Said they already had a gas supplier down because they do not want to rely on the ND.

As for the bold, your initial statement used the word size, its what I was trying to argue with you. If you had said technology this would not have gotten to 3 pages.

Have a great day.

The use of the term "size" was apt because the technology in question goes with power plant size. CCGT isn't feasible with a 50MW power plant.

Better late than never.

CodeTemplar:


Can each state build her own transmission system from scratch? The answer is likely NO, and that gives the FG a firm control on power issue.
In fact Lagos is one of the few states that can afford to build a brand new transmission infrastructure.

I say this because Lagos has a small land mass and therefore will need no long distance equipments, Lagos has the cash, Lagosians have the buying power to offset initial capital investment.

transmissions can also be decentralised

AZeD1:

Power doesn't follow regular economics.
Other companies can follow economy of scale because consumers would buy e.g I'd rather buy in bulk because its cheaper than individually because its cheaper, but that won't work in power because my power consumption is determined by my appliances.
Would you buy an extra washing machine or put a TV in your toilet because power is cheaper?

YOU CANNOT STORE POWER

bro buying a 1 mw plant is more expensive per unit than buying a 200 mw plant

1 mw = $ 1 million = 1m per meg
200mw=$360million = 200,000 per mw

investors will charge accordingly to recoup their investment

that's what codetemplar is saying

AZeD1:

If I have only one TV in my house, it doesn't matter how much electricity is sold, I would only pay for what my TV uses.
This is unlike airtime, where if a company does promo I can keep on loading my phone and use the airtime later or cement or any other physical item that can be hoarded. With power, if I don't use it now, it's wasted, so no matter how cheap electricity becomes I would not buy another TV because of that.

In developed countries, power is cheaper at night so as to encourage people to use power during off peak periods which then leaves power for those who need it during the day.

I could decide to use my washing machine by 2pm but the power company would prefer I do it by 11pm so as to reduce the load on their systems during on peak periods and also to ensure their machines are not idling during off peak periods.

Another thing to note is power plants are designed to run non stop and it's more profitable that way so power companies tend to build what they can sell. If demand increases, they'll increase capacity.

if ur factory use 55w and pay 70 Naira and ur Chinese competition uses 55w and pays 20 Naira do you think you will sell any finished product with that price difference.

AZeD1:

I'm not confusing power generation with consumption. The guy was/is saying build bigger plants to make power cheaper and I'm saying power price is determined by the regulator not by the size of your plant so economy of scale is not a factor.

in a socialist economy yua right
but no body will invest in socialist economy below market price
same way nobody will pay above market price unless in monopoly

MIKOLOWISKA:
bro buying a 1 mw plant is more expensive per unit than buying a 200 mw plant

1 mw = $ 1 million = 1m per meg
200mw=$360million = 200,000 per mw

investors will charge accordingly to recoup their investment

that's what codetemplar is saying

That is not what codetemplar is saying

For your other posts, prices in Nigeria are set by NERC not investors.

AZeD1:

That is not what codetemplar is saying

For your other posts, prices in Nigeria are set by NERC not investors.

ithought they're deregulating energy market

MIKOLOWISKA:
ithought they're deregulating energy market

Its a regulated market.

Current operators want the price increased.

Also Distribution companies are monopolies in Nigeria, if you give them free hand........

AZeD1:

Its a regulated market.

Current operators want the price increased.

Also Distribution companies are monopolies in Nigeria, if you give them free hand........

I know
I wonder how yankee do it
you buy power from generator of your choice