CGKing:

Ok let me answer and I hope im not drawing the thread back

No. . .you aren't.Just answer the questions.

[b]Understand that these two subjects are sources of historical knowledge and its not wrong to have them both when looking into man's past. Just because they may seem to conflict a little here and a little there doent mean we should disapprove one over the other. We have to keep studying them. The bible and archeology are windows into the past. Understand that man grew in understanding or as we may say, from an uncivilised era of thinking to modernity; that is to say, the bible is a document whose record began at a certain time of civilisation.  if you ve read the bible properly, you'd notice that there seems to be a beginning before the beginning of the bible as Moses wrote it.

Also there are millions of places where the bible and archeology agree, on events animals that once lived on earth, etc. I believe that the two go hand in hand as historical sources, with the bible being a more credible source.

My main point her is simple: The bible never said the world is 5000 years old. It only recoreded from that time.
[/b]

I am aware that there was a beginning before Moses added his piece else why did i talk about Adam,Cain and Noah?And please state the "millions of places" in the bible where archeology is mentioned.Perhaps i'm missing something.You say the bible doesn't quote the time frame of creation but numerous pastors keep claiming the same thing all the time during service.Also, if you calculate the genealogy from the time the bible claims creation started, through the old to new testament and the present day, it falls within that time frame. . .so what on earth are you talking about?

Well from what i have read and understood, Cain married his sister.  I have also discovered that historians of old as well as their culture played down on women, and the stems of that can be seem today in china, india some other Asian countries. Much of that time only recognised and or recorded men. and that could be the reason y sometimes there apeared to be some dark sides of the story. But you analyse it for urself, Adam lived for a long time, alot could have happened during his time.

Again, this is what i detest about nairaland.Read my question again and make an effort to UNDERSTAND before you type.In my question, i asked who the people in the land of Nod where, who Cain married and also asked if it was his sister or animals he married.Why do you people like to twist everything upside down instead of answering straight forward questions? Just answer the questions head on and leave the twisting.It's boring to repeat myself over and over and over again.

You are not thining deeply enough. The bible never said that all species were of animals or organisams were saved. And judging from Noah's decent, the earth wasnt completely occupied rationally speaking. They werent up to 20 billion as we are today, they were concerntrated in a portion of the earth. Be rational  Speaking of feat, where did u think God was? If He were a supernatural being as was recorded, dont you think He was working too? You imagine, everthing God created was in a  tiny spot of the earth, the Eden Garden. How would you xplain of man , animals and plants from that spot? None  other than the study of the science of migration of man and beast and pollination for plants. as well as farming.

i think you condemed the bible even before you first opened it.

I am not thinking deeply enough? Do you even know the meaning of what you just typed? Only a deep thinker will put up the kind of posts i have put here.Only someone who refuses to be a naive vegetable/dunce will take on topics that most people including yourself are scared to address even though deep down in your mind, you have asked yourselves the same questions at some point in your life.Talking about condemning the bible, i have read,researched and sunk myself deeper into biblical issues than you can ever imagine.I have ate,drank and impregnated the bible and there's nothing you can quote from your bible whereby i won't have at least 3-5 discrepancies to challenge your argument.Why are people always like this? They have nothing to contribute and instead of admitting that or moving to another thread, they bring up childish sentiments.I asked simple questions.ALL I NEED IS A SIMPLE ANSWER NOT SENTIMENTS! What is so hard about that?

Bro, i think you are confused. Did Jesus not accept offerings in the new testament of the bible? Where is the line btw the new and the old testament? Do you know where it is? You think it starts from Mathew, abi? The new testament of the book is not the new testament of religion or the worship of God. The new testament began when Jesus died and rose again. That is the christian's new testament. There is a lot to say bro, u really have to read your bible first before doing this.

Please quote where Jesus asked the congregation to bring their tithes,offerings and pledges to the house of god in order to receive "divine blessings".This is how you people keep misquoting the bible to suit your needs. . .the same thing you people preach against.

Bro, I have a revelation of who God is and i will share it with you. God is love. Total Love. He loved man before He created man and he wanted man to love Him back So He had to create man with full consciousness. Of course He knew the repercussions, but between the balance of His love for man and the fact that man could love him and know him and the possibility of redemption from the evils we have today, there was hope. You cant say becos of the fear of giving birth to a gay child or a criminal, then you aint bearing children. You can find hope somewhere that it aint gonna be your own child.  i believe this is Widom, that he created man. I am thankful to be here today. I am thankful God gave us a chance, hoping we will redeem ourselves

.

Is this what you call a revelation? Do you know what revelation means? My goodness! ! !



(6)The people who brought us Christianity also brought guns,liquor and slave trade (i don't know about you but that doesn't sound "holy-like" to me).They superimposed their religion on the black folks as a means of control.The same people who brought us their religion don't take it as serious as we do.I might be wrong but Nigeria to the best of my knowledge is the most prayerful/religious country in the world (there is hardly any street in Lagos without at least 2 churches or fellowships) and yet, with all the abundance of religion, we are the most cold hearted people to our fellow human beings! Christianity as we know it today originated from the Catholic church whose practices are chiefly unorthodox or in plain English. . .idol worship (how else can you explain worshiping a graven image of Mary, praying to saints,kissing the rings and feet of priests and the rosary. . .all of which aren't mentioned in the bible). Christians all claim to be worshiping one god. . .why then can't a Christ Embassy worshiper spend a few Sundays at Celestial Church of Christ? Why can't a C.A.C Pastor minister in Assemblies of God? Why can't Winners Chapel members worship in K&S? Or are there different gods? Are the so called Christians confused? Please explain these few questions satisfactorily and i'll hold my peace.

[b]Bro, you need not be confused. If you say all christians  must come together and mix i'd say except three is a limit, there wont be any success in the mix. There is such a thing as doctrine and this is the foundattion of each ministry you see today. The Catholics, if you read their history wanted a unified body of christian and it only broght chaos and sufferings and death. They wanted a unification of all religions and that brought about a corruption of the truths of old. It will never work that way. The diversity of revelations that produces doctrines  for each ministry is what, I believe is making the church thrive. The Bible says, God gave to some apostles, some teachers, some the gifts of healing and diverse gifts for the edifying of the church. The diverse gifts given to each one of us, RCCG, Christ Embassy, Deeper etc can  functioning independently yet part of one body of God, the church. More like the the system of the human body. This is God's desgn. The bible talks about  diferent churches too is the time of Paul the apostles.

That the whites brought christianity to us and now we seem to be champions of it is a remarkable, enlightening and sensational  happening. Its a story i love. Its not a failure of religion or christiainity but a failure in humanity. Its human behaviour and it happens everyday in our societies. I heard of a founder of a party who decamped to PDP, aint that funny.

Before the whites came, what we called our religion was bondage to unseen forces controlling this world. What makes the difference btw the white man and the black man today is not the color of the skin? Its just something  that the normal eyes cannot explain. We have intelligent blacks, enourmouse unused resources yet the black  man is in bondage, even in his own home. Have u never wondered why? Why has Nigeria, even with so much wealth and potentials suffered like a slave for so long? I ll tell u why. Becos of the bondage our fathers subjected us to by serving evil and unseen forces of the world. These unseen demonic worship has held us for so long.  But not anymore. We now have the religion of the white. The true religion. Jesus Christ and having saturated our towns and cities this much for this while, Nigeia will be redeemed. To take her position in the world.  Somehow, by God's grace, it will be.
[/b]

This is one of the most pathetic arguments i have ever read on NL.I have on advice for you though.Since you are a Christian, try to read your bible very well and understand the contents properly before you come here to embarrass serious bible readers. I was once a Christian and if i might add, a very strong one. . , All your arguments are lame and an embarrassment to so called Christians.Have a nice nite.

No quams.

Cheers!  

enitan2002:

@ mazaje and harakiri,

you guys have said it all. I beleive there's existence of the supreme being, but I have from the onset doubted the genuity of the book called bible. I stopped going to church way back 2002, and i can say i fare better. I understand spiritual matters now better than when i was in the church. Jesus himself said, let the dead continue to bury their dead, for those who have eyes, make use of them.

Thumbs up for you guys.

bros1234:

Congratulations for stopping to go to church and faring better because of that.But incase you ever come back to post here, ask yourself, wat if all the story u ar told in church (pls forget the bad guys who mess things up), wat if eventually its truth?

As for the arguments here, I have provided evidence that the world is an organised art and every organised art is a product of intelligent design. I am yet to see tudor (by the way whats the meaning of that word or name "tudor), harakiri and majaze prove me otherwise

I would like to believe that they have accepted my theory of intelligent design or that at least they think and accept within themselves that Someone, a supreme being actually created the world. Like harakiri said, he only wants proof that the guy behind the intelligence of the world is the Supreme being revealed from Isreal.

I would never crucify harakiri if that is the context of this argument. Why? The hindi, the shintoist, the several religions, even my old uncle in the village, all believe a different thing. So how do I prove that the Creator revealed from Isreal is actually the supreme being behind the design of this earth?

This is the point where I would tell you that I've got nothing to say. Its not more of making statements or quoting scriptures, its more of show me some proof, either a demonstration or a scientific evidence.

It is at this point I will like to behave like the father of Gideon. I would never defend my G in heaven. Let Him prove Himself to harakiri and co, who are confused about the G to believe in. And as I've said before, guys its only a matter of time. No rush. the real G behind the creation will prove Himself

I rest my case

Tudór:

Mr man, stop being intellectually lazy. . .

You provided NO Proof anywhere. . .running off when asked to defend your point then mouthing off about how you presented ''evidence'' is just not ok.

Answer the simple question I posed to you and stop dancing around.

nuclearboy:

@Joagbaje:

Here again in support of man rather than God as usual, are you? Lets not make this an issue.

Who is the man im supporting here? Paul? . You should stop spreading what you dont understand. Dont apply scriptures out of contex. Jesus was talking to pharisees and not to pastors!

Please JUST type out what Matthew 23: 8 says (if you truly believe you are a Christian, nothing will scare/embarrass you and nothing will make you pretend you didn't see a contrary opinion. Christ never evaded issues or questions - if you do, you are following somethng else and not the Risen Christ). Thank you.

You are the one evading issues here. Why not compare your claim with the teachings of the apostles.

nuclearboy:

@Joagbaje:

Here again in support of man rather than God as usual, are you? Lets not make this an issue.

Please JUST type out what Matthew 23: 8 says (if you truly believe you are a Christian, nothing will scare/embarrass you and nothing will make you pretend you didn't see a contrary opinion. Christ never evaded issues or questions - if you do, you are following somethng else and not the Risen Christ). Thank you.

Austin82:

@Harakiri let me answer your questions.

1) Adam had other children apart from Cain & Abel. Eg. Seth, Enosh etc. Adam died @ the age of 930 years, so Cain must have married any woman then which was not recorded. In fact read Genesis 5 for clarification & see how silly your question is.

2) Archaeological findings.
Never mix spiritual issues with science because some of  the scientific laws become obsolete immediately new ones come out.

3) As Noah built the Ark, there was no record that he went round the world looking for two species of animals to put in the Ark. This implies that he put two species of animals in his vicinity. Ask yourself why two species of animals? Why not three species? Hermaphrodites supposed to be included because they are in plants & animals. Or were they not created by God?

Tithe.
The issue of paying of tithe is important but not by force or compulsory. I have never seen a church that is forcing out tithe from the members. The fact is that whether you pay your tithe or not, God's work MUST continue. HIS kingdom MUST continue to expand.

I'm not going to judge you because i'm not God. But anytime you want to comment on sensitive issues please do your research well to avoid misleading people that want to be educated. Remain blessed.

bros1234:

I dont get you mr. did u really ask me a question? Sorry, what was it?

mazaje:

[flash=400,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB3g6mXLEKk&color1[/flash]

"No long talk.No beating about the bush.Straight to the point.Same thing applies here. You say you worship a god and you believe he's the creator of the universe and if you worship him well enough, he will grant you blessings here on earth and you might probably get a ticket into heaven (lovely Smiley)"

"You know. . .i really dislike being misquoted.I never hindered the bible or Christians from "proving" itself or themselves."

"All i need are straight answers not quotations from a book that has been influenced on several intervals over the centuries by the ruling class and the catholic papacy. How can you be quoting scriptures when you weren't even there when it was written? All you know is that you were taught Christianity was the way to go from childhood and if you go against the bible, you will go to hell! Apart from that, what other proof?"

"If he is all these, then he should have known that Eve would be tempted by the serpent and she would fall.He should have known how his creation would go till this present day.Why then did he create man when he knew that failure was imminent? The bible says he destroyed the world once and will do it again (some call it rapture, others call it Armageddon, a few think it's both ways). Why create something and condemn it? Is the bible implying that god is confused? That he makes errors? Isn't he supposed to be the all knowing god? Explain this please."

"If you can only look beyond your greed for blessings and fear of the unknown, you will see the outright ridiculousness of religion in general (most especially Christianity).You all claim that the Christian god is not the author of confusion but watch that video and you'll more than enough contradictions to make you feel sorry for yourselves.I won't be surprised to come back here and see dim witted sentiments of people who have watched the video and still have it in them to defend the indefensible.Like Karl Max rightfully said, Religion is the opium of the masses. . .

"Die Religion , ist das Opium des Volkes"

It blind folds you to all forms of common sense.Matter of fact, religion and reason/logic/common sense don't go hand in hand.They don't mix.Like someone rightfully said, Moslems put their shoes outside the door when they come to the mosque. . .Christians leave the brains at the door when they come to church."

QUOTE. here you all are, misquoting the bible at random., you so called Christians keep disgracing yourselves like this, before you come here to embarrass the rest of the congregation with your semi-educated bible knowledge.You are an outright embarrassment to Christians worldwide.Let's expose your a little bit shall we?I'll address your answers one by one : .I won't be surprised to come back here and see dim witted sentiments of people who have watched the video and still have it in them to defend the indefensible.Like Karl Max rightfully said, Religion is the opium of the masses. . .

"Die Religion , ist das Opium des Volkes"

It blind folds you to all forms of common sense.Matter of fact, religion and reason/logic/common sense don't go hand in hand.They don't mix.Like someone rightfully said, Moslems put their shoes outside the door when they come to the mosque. . .Christians leave the brains at the door when they come to church.QUOTE

mazaje:

How did you confirm anything? . , Stop using words out of place pls. . .You did NOT confirm anything, your ridiculous assumptions remain just that. . .When did you enter into a ship that rose 25000 feet with Noah and confirm anything?. . .The Noah's story REMAINS a plagiarized myth that was copied by the Jews from earlier civilization. . . .Google the Epic of Gilgamesh. . .

Any country that has the Military might of Israel compared to that of its enemies(Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Yemen) will stand in the midst of its enemies and survive, the enemies of Israel are not strong at all. If Israel had enemies like Turkey, Iran, Germany, France and England beside it, there will be no country like Israel existing on the map today, Israel is luck to have weaklings as enemies. . .If Israel had enemies like Turkey alone we would have been talking about something else now.  . . . . . . .

Yes, there were no suicide bombers but there were people that kill others and sacrifice them unto their Gods just as it is written in the bible, there were people that plunder their enemies lands and enslave all of them, despoil was a routine part of wars at that time, Unbelief is enough for you to be invaded, take it or leave it, Human morality has GREATLY improved now compared to what was obtainable 4000 years ago, black and whites now live together peacefully and with equal respect in so many parts of Europe and America something that was not possible just 300 years ago. Read the bible and you will see where Yahweh was commanding the Jews to go and be terrorist(terrorism), he commanded them to kill others and sacrifice them and their entire city as burnt offerings unto him(rituals). . .Earth quake and hurricanes have been a part of this planet and will forever be a part of this world as long as the planet remains. Pls go and educate yourself about natural disasters like earthquakes and stop sounding like a baby. . .

So?. . . . .

Ok make sure you know what you are talking about before you come here, this is a public forum filled with knowledgeable people not a market

Germany is still a better Economy than Israel, Germany is the biggest economy in Europe, it is a technology giant in Europe and the whole world, and has a military might that Israel can NOT defeat in a conventional war so what are you talking about, You said that Yahweh bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel but why is Germany still a better country than Israel after the Germans killed over 6 million Jews? The holocaust remains one of the greatest crimes against humanity but Germany still remains a better country than Israel, no?. . . .

. . . . I am still waiting, I just want you to show me the percentage of the NAS that are Jews. . . .

My friend you don't know what you are talking about. . . .Christianity is in its waning days in USA. . .The USA is a secular nation that has NOTHING to do with religion. . . .African still remain the most religious people around. . . .Here is an excerpts from a study that was conducted some months ago. . .

"In many countries across the continent, roughly nine in 10 people say religion is very important in their lives," the study found.

That puts even the least religious countries in the region ahead of the United States, which is among the most religious of advanced industrial countries, the study's authors wrote."

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/africa/04/15/africa.religion/index.html?hpt=Mid

God, is omnipotent, omniprecscient, etc, etc. If you think deeply, you will realise that having a right, is not complete without the right not to exercise that right. I hope you can understand that. Having an ability, is not complete without being able to decide whether to exercise that ability or not to exercise the ability. If you can understand this simple concept, then you will understand that God was under no compulsion to exercise his ability to fore know.

another thing that has been bothering me is
this? mr harakiri says that he does believe
that there is a supreme being, but feels
that it is not the christian god.[b] has he
investigated other religions to find out if
there is one? I dont think so, because he
goes on to say agree with Karl Max in
saying that religion is the opium of the
masses. so, it's not just christianity that
irks him, its all religion. in one post, he will
say, jewish god, in another christian god,
which one do you really mean, cos i
believe you know that judaism is a very
different religion from christianity? right?
so, i am really beginning to feel that there
is a whole lot of insincerity involved and i
earnestly hope i am wrong. what harakiri
does not know is that i am not a christian.
but of all the religions i investigated, true
christianity, and let me say this, there is a
difference, big difference between
christianity and christendom, and true
christianity. As i was saying, true
christianity seems like the most reasonable
religion to me. I investigated hinduism,
islam, buddhism, taoism, confucianism,
shintoism, judaism before reaching my
conclusion about true christianity.

let me just say this, so as to try and differentiate between true christianity and christendom/ chritianity. true christianity does not believe in hellfire but believes in hell. (yeah, there is a difference between hellfire and hell), true christianity does not force tithes on its members, people give voluntary and of their own volition, true christianity does not engage in politics, war, and other conflicts and its members try to be peaceable, not just peaceful. (yeah, there is a huge difference btw being peaceable and being peaceful.),true christianity does not preach that everyone will go to heaven, does not preach rapture, does not condone violence, immoral behaviour, well, there are a lot of other differences but going on to list them will derail what i was trying to say, but if you just compare what i said, you will find that most of the people you consider, and class as christians, are not true christians but part of christendom. and yet, even after my search, and finding true christianity, i am not a christian. because what is required by true christianity i am not yet ready to practice.for instance, the bible says: “If possible,as far as it depends upon you, be peaceable with all men." and literallyy the word peaceable,, means peacemakers. being a peacemaker means , going out of ones way to establish and to maintain peace. that is why the bible also says that if someone slaps you you should not retaliate, instead turn the other cheek. truthfully, if someone slaps me, i will land him his own slap sharp,sharp. so my knowleddge of my limitations and my laziness and unwillingness to train myself is what is preventing me from practicing christianity.

on the issue of the bible contradicting it self, yes, the bible does appear to contradict itself. it is also easy to find contradictions when you are looking for them . what may be harder to do is try and see, check from genesis to revelation, to see if this seeming contradictions are really contradictions. often times, what are discrepancies are lableled contradictions. it is very easy, in fact, one of the easiest things in the world to hurl accusations, or to find faults. almost everyone knows that.

consider this:“Discrepancies” Do Not Have to Be Contradictions   Kenneth S. Kantzer, a theologian, once illustrated how two reports of the same event can seem contradictory and yet both be true. He wrote: “Some time ago the mother of a dear friend of ours was killed. We first learned of her death through a trusted mutual friend who reported that our friend ’s mother had been standing on the street corner waiting for a bus, had been hit by another bus passing by, was fatally injured, and died a few minutes later. ” Soon after, he heard a very different report. He says: “We learned from the grandson of the dead woman that she had been involved in a collision, was thrown from the car in which she was riding, and was killed instantly. The boy was quite certain of his facts. “Much later . . . we probed for a harmonization. We learned that the grandmother had been waiting for a bus, was hit by another bus, and was critically injured. She had been picked up by a passing car and dashed to the hospital, but in the haste, the car in which she was being transported to the hospital collided with another car. She was thrown from the car and died instantly. ” Yes, two accounts of the same event may both be true even though they seem to disagree with each other. This is sometimes the case with the Bible. Independent witnesses may describe different details about the same event. Instead of being contradictory, however, what they write is complementary, and if we take all accounts into consideration, we get a better understanding of what happened.

IF IT really is the Word of God, the Bible should be harmonious, not contradictory. Why, then, do some passages seem to contradict others? To answer, we need to remember that, while the Bible is the Word of God, it was written down by a number of men over a period of several centuries. These writers had different backgrounds, writing styles, and gifts, and all these differences are reflected in the writing. Moreover, if two or more writers discuss the same event, one might include details that another omits. Additionally, different writers present the subject matter in different ways. One might write it down chronologically, while another might follow a different arrangement. In this chapter, we will present some alleged contradictions in the Bible and consider how they can be reconciled, taking the above considerations into account. Independent Witnesses Some “contradictions” arise when we have two or more accounts of the same incident. For example, at Matthew 8:5 we read that when Jesus came into Capernaum, “an army officer came to him, entreating him,” asking Jesus to cure his manservant. But at Luke 7:3, we read of this army officer that “he sent forth older men of the Jews to him to ask [Jesus] to come and bring his slave safely through. ” Did the army officer speak to Jesus, or did he send the older men? The answer is, clearly, that the man sent the elders of the Jews. Why, then, does Matthew say that the man himself entreated Jesus? Because, in effect, the man asked Jesus through the Jewish elders. The elders served as his mouthpiece. To illustrate this, at 2 Chronicles 3:1, we read: “Finally Solomon started to build the house of Jehovah in Jerusalem.” Later, we read: “Thus Solomon finished the house of Jehovah.” (2 Chronicles 7:11) Did Solomon personally build the temple from start to finish? Of course not. The actual building work was done by a multitude of craftsmen and laborers. But Solomon was the organizer of the work, the one responsible. Hence, the Bible says that he built the house. In the same way, Matthew ’s Gospel tells us that the military commander approached Jesus. But Luke gives the added detail that he approached him through the Jewish elders. IF IT really is the Word of God, the Bible should be harmonious, not contradictory. Why, then, do some passages seem to contradict others? To answer, we need to remember that, while the Bible is the Word of God, it was written down by a number of men over a period of several centuries. These writers had different backgrounds, writing styles, and gifts, and all these differences are reflected in the writing. Moreover, if two or more writers discuss the same event, one might include details that another omits. Additionally, different writers present the subject matter in different ways. One might write it down chronologically, while another might follow a different arrangement. In this chapter, we will present some alleged contradictions in the Bible and consider how they can be reconciled, taking the above considerations into account. Independent Witnesses Some “contradictions” arise when we have two or more accounts of the same incident. For example, at Matthew 8:5 we read that when Jesus came into Capernaum, “an army officer came to him, entreating him,” asking Jesus to cure his manservant. But at Luke 7:3, we read of this army officer that “he sent forth older men of the Jews to him to ask [Jesus] to come and bring his slave safely through. ” Did the army officer speak to Jesus, or did he send the older men? The answer is, clearly, that the man sent the elders of the Jews. Why, then, does Matthew say that the man himself entreated Jesus? Because, in effect, the man asked Jesus through the Jewish elders. The elders served as his mouthpiece.

To illustrate this, at 2 Chronicles 3:1, we read: “Finally Solomon started to build the house of Jehovah in Jerusalem.” Later, we read: “Thus Solomon finished the house of Jehovah.” (2 Chronicles 7:11) Did Solomon personally build the temple from start to finish? Of course not. The actual building work was done by a multitude of craftsmen and laborers. But Solomon was the organizer of the work, the one responsible. Hence, the Bible says that he built the house. In the same way, Matthew ’s Gospel tells us that the military commander approached Jesus. But Luke gives the added detail that he approached him through the Jewish elders.