Yes, God came to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He also came to others in the Bible who rejected Him. Many wanted only what they could get out of it. But just like the case of Davids' anointing, He looked on the inside and saw Jacob's inner motives (or choice of God). Egypt was Israels greatest ever enemy yet God told Israel to accept "any" who wanted to become one of them.

The nations Israel came across in the wilderness had ALL heard their reputation and knew what happened in and to Egypt. Some of their people's (like Rahab the Harlot) joined Israel. I have not seen where they were turned back. The others fought against them. People die in battle!

Today its the same - people reject joining what we call the "spiritual" Israel for varying reasons. Some because its not cool/funky. Some because they preferred the lure of money, sin, etc. Some because they prefer another religion. Whatever, its not God rejecting them. Its them rejecting Him just as those ancient people's rejected Him.

Please consider that. God never rejects. It is us who do so.

nuclearboy:

Yes, God came to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He also came to others in the Bible who rejected Him. Many wanted only what they could get out of it. But just like the case of Davids' anointing, He looked on the inside and saw Jacob's inner motives (or choice of God). Egypt was Israels greatest ever enemy yet God told Israel to accept "any" who wanted to become one of them.

The nations Israel came across in the wilderness had ALL heard their reputation and knew what happened in and to Egypt. Some of their people's (like Rahab the Harlot) joined Israel. I have not seen where they were turned back. The others fought against them. People die in battle!

Today its the same - people reject joining what we call the "spiritual" Israel for varying reasons. Some because its not cool/funky. Some because they preferred the lure of money, sin, etc. Some because they prefer another religion. Whatever, its not God rejecting them. Its them rejecting Him just as those ancient people's rejected Him.

Please consider that. God never rejects. It is us who do so.

Emmmm (***clears throat***)

Please who are these people that rejected God when he came to them? Please quote from the time of Abraham coz i am a little lost here.My recollection of God's rejection was from Pharoah and even then, there was foul play.How ? The lord wanted to deliver his people from slavery (why did he allow them get into such in the first place?).With each demonstration Moses and Aaron performed, his heart would melt and he would make up his mind to let them go but THE LORD CONTINUED TO HARDEN HIS HEART AGAINST THE ISREALITES! ! !

If that isn't foul play, i don't know what else is.Same thing I've been hammering on. . .preferential treatment for the Israelites.The bible is all about them and only them and the only time the roman empire came into the bible was when the religion spread to Sparta/Athens/Greece/Macedonia thus the offshoot of Roman Catholicism as we know it today.

nuclearboy:



Please think outside the box and see what is in front of you. Its clearer with a bit of thought and study of ancient cultures and mindsets. It also makes more sense than saying Baboons became you after 2 million years (why did only some become you and not all?) after becoming baboons from being snails who also became snails after 2 million years (why didn't all the snails become baboons - did they take a vote?) from being tse-tse flies etc etc etc

  Wee hu hu ! @ mr.harakiri you see rather than believe God made you,you'd rather believe you are a metamorphosed tse-tse fly or baboon ! hahahaha! kai!

i believe the word christian means "christ-like".however, most nigerians don't emulate that.harakiri is asking some serious questions. i don't regularly read the bible but i think if he was asking Jesus Christ in the flesh,he would gladly talk to him in order to shed more light to his reasoning rather than condemning him outright. i had thought that a "christian" would take the time to discus the issue with him or was it not said "ask and you shall receive"?

in regards to the practice of churches in nigeria,i have nearly given up hope because it is now an issue of "do as i say" and not "do as i do".i have a church that conducts their sevices close to my place who don't believe in the saying "let my enemies live long so that they can see what i would be in future".rather their enemies should die immediately. i was passing a church the other day when i heard the pastor telling the congregation to pray for the sick.including those at the hospital and those visiting juju doctors that they may get well. i went in and made a donation to the church.

two months ago i went to a burial where the corpse of the man that died was moved from mortuary to house to crusade to conventions to prayer warriors FOR 7 MONTHS,begging and praying and fasting that God should raise the man from death. and these are not illiterate people: the father is a priest and the mother is a deaconess. i got me asking is it the same bible that taught them this and is it a sin for a christian to die?

@ the topic,i don't care if pastor chris is real,i don't bother to know what he said or did niether would i compare him to anyone.it all boils down to you as an individual.ask questions so you would be enlighten,reason or meditate on what you learn (after all God or the Greater/supreme being gave you a brain,use it) and decide which path you would follow.

P.S I don't insult or criticize Islamic so-called radical activities anymore after i read what the church did during the Spanish inquisition.

this is by far the best thread i have seen on NL.
for the defenders of the faith: christianity is not logical for you to now enter a debate with a skeptic.
can you explain the trinity? resurrection?ascension? speaking in tongues?
and other mysteries of the faith?

christians have failed have failed in many ways and brought shame to the name of God.

doesnt mean christianity isnt genuine.

the only defence christianity needs is community relevant righteous living.

Why would you have me quote from the time of Abraham? Prior to that, we are told Enoch walked with God, aren't we? And we are told the Noah's generation "totally" rejected God's ways, aren't we? Would you have me say they don't matter? Why?

Pharaoh's case is one that sincerely has always puzzled me. I too wondered about the idea of him softening and then God "hardening"his heart again. I do not speak for God or as an oracle but to my mind, that particular Pharaoh (and the Bible supports this) had been particularly cruel to Israel and its like any of us handed the molester of any of our relatives and allowed to do whatever we wanted. We'd most likely dream of amazing slow painful torture etc. God forgive me but my understanding is that I was created in His likeness. If I want revenge for such, who am I like?

Seems a travesty judging God to be like us but then, I have a mind ehn? And its just a hypotheses. I do not claim knowledge! I just think maybe God killed two birds with that stone. He created a reputation for the Israelites and at the same time had His/"and Israel's" vengeance on a particularly cruel king. NOTE that Pharaoh's people supported him or else his heavy hand would not have been felt so strongly by the slave Israelites. So they shared his punishment.

BTW, Pharoah's heart melting was not out of consideration for Israel but for his own people. That is not repentance from Evil. Just the thing that makes an armed robber flee when the Police arrive. He will still rob!

@Leopantro:
I wonder if you've read the conversation between me and harakiri. I'm trying to do what you said you expect.

@Obelisk:
Why do you think there is no logic in "belief". BTW, I can try to explain almost everything you list

mistakay:

  Wee hu hu ! @ mr.harakiri you see rather than believe God made you,you'd rather believe you are a metamorphosed tse-tse fly or baboon ! hahahaha! kai!

(***yawns***)

If you took a few minutes to read through the threads, you would see that i hammered on my belief of greater forces that brought the earth realm to being but i DO NOT believe in some bogus stories with uncountable inconsistencies that was instilled on my fore fathers by the white man simply because he wanted dominance in these regions.For the sake of sanity, haven't you asked yourself these questions before or are you just blinded by your greed for blessings and "divine favor" from above to bother thinking about these things? Or is it the fear of the unknown.

Once again, i do not believe the world started by some big bang theory or that we evolved from apes! Far from it.What i have tirelessly emphasized on is that most religions especially Christianity in particular is a myth propagated by fraudsters selling hope to people with the aim of milking the public.The thing is, people want to believe in something and in a country like Nigeria where uncertainty hangs in the air like a thick smog, people just HAVE TO BELIEVE IN SOMETHING however stupid and outrageous it is.That is why some nut job who calls himself a pastor will tell the congregation to bring their first fruits (first earnings of the year) if they want "divine progress" that year.Imagine a family man with four children who earns N50,000 a month bringing all that money for the pastor whereas he and his wife have exhausted all their savings during the xmas/new year period! How on earth can that remotely make an atom of sense to you? But hey. . .nobody wants to hear that right? All people are concerned with is the false hope they purchased with their tithes and offerings.

harakiri:

If that isn't foul play, i don't know what else is.Same thing I've been hammering on. . .preferential treatment for the Israelites.The bible is all about them and only them and the only time the roman empire came into the bible was when the religion spread to Sparta/Athens/Greece/Macedonia thus the offshoot of Roman Catholicism as we know it today.

Foul play?  

Please answer this - Who would your father support in a table tennis match? YOU or ME! The Israelites are GOD's. The Bible is clear about that and just as I explained above, most all of us have a choice. At least you do right now to continue to question, consider sincerely and finally accept Jesus or to refuse. If you refuse, why would He support you against me in a fair contest? Where the problem comes is when I do wrong and you do right - of course He will support YOU at that time but the problem is most of us expect we can do anything then call on some idiotic emotion based argument for support.

waoh ! am really enjoying diz thread.

@ harakiri ! waoh am short of words. Really srry that i can not answer most of ur questions but there was a comment u responded to that really touched me. You said u had to run inside to pick ur dusty bible to respond  to the comment ! well i just want to tell u that  u goin to pick up that bible iz goin to be the beginig of a new thing in ur life. I just want u you to kno that there iz a supreme being somewhere. Just think about it , u waking up in the mornin and for the past six hrs or thereabout u dont av a clue of where uve been. Harakiri, we were all created by a supreme being and we will also return to that supreme which is God. Just live every day of ur life as if its goin be the last day u will eva live. Its not adviseable agueing on diz above issue has God not made the foolisness the wisdom of the world?
Am really deeply srry if my lil piece has not contributed anything to ur numerous question.

@harakiri:

BTW, I see you are judging God based on what pastors are doing not what He does.

Too many of us prefer that pastors stand between us and God and such people are the ones who give opportunity for pastors to milk them dry. A Christian is supposed to [1] Achieve a prayerful strong relationship with God. Just talk and talk (not noise making; could even be mind not tongue based) [2] Read his Bible (I personally hate ALL commentaries on the Bible e.g ROR, daily guide etc because I believe God speaks to us best directly and not through anyone) [3] Test all spirits [4] allow a clear conscience (usually built from good character and humility) to direct him. Most of the time, you will find the conscience is interchangable (in my context) with a "Godly" spirit i.e. the Holy Spirit

Now, if your family man cannot read his Bible and study to show himself approved, is it the pastor's fault? And if the pastor takes advantage of such, is it God's fault? Nope, it is the man's fault AND the pastor's greed and God is looking for above sadly at two so-called "children" turning "belief" into a dance of shame.

Leopantro:

i believe the word christian means "christ-like".however, most nigerians don't emulate that.harakiri is asking some serious questions. i don't regularly read the bible but i think if he was asking Jesus Christ in the flesh,he would gladly talk to him in order to shed more light to his reasoning rather than condemning him outright. i had thought that a "christian" would take the time to discus the issue with him or was it not said "ask and you shall receive"?

in regards to the practice of churches in nigeria,i have nearly given up hope because it is now an issue of "do as i say" and not "do as i do".i have a church that conducts their sevices close to my place who don't believe in the saying "let my enemies live long so that they can see what i would be in future".rather their enemies should die immediately. i was passing a church the other day when i heard the pastor telling the congregation to pray for the sick.including those at the hospital and those visiting juju doctors that they may get well. i went in and made a donation to the church.

two months ago i went to a burial where the corpse of the man that died was moved from mortuary to house to crusade to conventions to prayer warriors FOR 7 MONTHS,begging and praying and fasting that God should raise the man from death. and these are not illiterate people: the father is a priest and the mother is a deaconess. i got me asking is it the same bible that taught them this and is it a sin for a christian to die?

@ the topic,i don't care if pastor chris is real,i don't bother to know what he said or did niether would i compare him to anyone.it all boils down to you as an individual.ask questions so you would be enlighten,reason or meditate on what you learn (after all God or the Greater/supreme being gave you a brain,use it) and decide which path you would follow.

P.S I don't insult or criticize Islamic so-called radical activities anymore after i read what the church did during the Spanish inquisition.

Thank you very much.Let shed some light on the second bolded text above.In churches today (especially Pentecostals), they adamantly believe that trials and tribulations are not their "portion".If you are given query at work, they pray fervently against sack letter.What happened to "may the will of the lord be done"? As far as they are concerned, anything negative MUST NOT apply in their lives.And i begin to wonder, was it not Jesus who told his followers that they would suffer all kinds of tribulations for his name? The kind of suffering the early apostles suffered in the days of old is considered unacceptable in today's form of Christianity.You even have churches that pray for the death of their perceived "enemies" e.g MOUNTAIN OF FIRE AND MIRACLES! ! ! You hear them screaming "FIRE, FIRE, FIRE. . .DIE,DIE,DIE". . .like demented souls.How Christian is that? What happened to forgiving your enemies and turning the other cheek?  

Simply pathetic! ! !

^^^ I just addressed this issue now, bro.

Most people do NOT know what they are doing! Here on NL, we call them WOFers, name and claim 101, etc. They come making noise expecting God to behave like personal bodyguards and at the same time an armed robber who gives them cash even when they don't have work. Its such people that are fooled.

But you cannot show me a counterfeit 5, 000 Naira note today BECAUSE there is no genuine. In effect, without a genuine, there is no counterfeit; which implies there are genuine. Pastor-worshippers are definitely fake. Pastors that allow themselves to be worshipped too are also fake.

larrylyric:

waoh ! am really enjoying diz thread.

@ harakiri ! waoh am short of words. Really srry that i can not answer most of your questions but there was a comment u responded to that really touched me. You said u had to run inside to pick your dusty bible to respond  to the comment ! well i just want to tell u that  u goin to pick up that bible iz goin to be the beginig of a new thing in your life. I just want u you to kno that there iz a supreme being somewhere. Just think about it , u waking up in the mornin and for the past six hrs or thereabout u dont av a clue of where uve been. Harakiri, we were all created by a supreme being and we will also return to that supreme which is God. Just live every day of your life as if its goin be the last day u will eva live. Its not adviseable agueing on diz above issue has God not made the foolisness the wisdom of the world?
Am really deeply srry if my lil piece has not contributed anything to your numerous question.

I appreciate your well constructed contribution and like i said earlier. . .i do believe there is a supreme being or beings that brought about our existence as we know it today BUT THAT BEING IS NOT the imported Jewish deity!

Cheers man.

nuclearboy:

Foul play?  

Please answer this - Who would your father support in a table tennis match? YOU or ME! The Israelites are GOD's. The Bible is clear about that and just as I explained above, most all of us have a choice. At least you do right now to continue to question, consider sincerely and finally accept Jesus or to refuse. If you refuse, why would He support you against me in a fair contest? Where the problem comes is when I do wrong and you do right - of course He will support YOU at that time but the problem is most of us expect we can do anything then call on some idiotic emotion based argument for support.

The Isrealites are God's.Point taken.Who did the others belong to? Hmmm? Who do YOU belong to?Are you an Israelite?

nuclearboy:

@harakiri:

BTW, I see you are judging God based on what pastors are doing not what He does.

Too many of us prefer that pastors stand between us and God and such people are the ones who give opportunity for pastors to milk them dry. A Christian is supposed to [1] Achieve a prayerful strong relationship with God. Just talk and talk (not noise making; could even be mind not tongue based) [2] Read his Bible (I personally hate ALL commentaries on the Bible e.g ROR, daily guide etc because I believe God speaks to us best directly and not through anyone)  [3] Test all spirits [4] allow a clear conscience (usually built from good character and humility) to direct him. Most of the time, you will find the conscience is interchangable (in my context) with a "Godly" spirit i.e. the Holy Spirit

Now, if your family man cannot read his Bible and study to show himself approved, is it the pastor's fault? And if the pastor takes advantage of such, is it God's fault? Nope, it is the man's fault AND the pastor's greed and God is looking for above sadly at two so-called "children" turning "belief" into a dance of shame.

This god,god,god. . .have you seen him before? Let us not even talk about pastors. . .let's talk about the backbone of Christianity itself : the bible.Can you explain one discrepancy for me? Now, in the old testament, god instructed his people on what to eat and what not to.Later on in the new testament he says everything is good to eat in the vision of Peter (i might be wrong but i think it was Peter. . .i haven't read my bible in years except for today when i opened genesis. . .lol ).The god in the bible is supposed to be a perfect all knowing being.How can he say one thing and contradict himself the next? He says an eye for an eye in the old testament and in the new testament, he says turn the other cheek.Is he confused?

The bible says the god of this age has blinded the eyes of men. I see it even in posts here. The person that started this post just wants to raise dust. If he had really wanted to know he should have asked his pastor (if he has one) and gotten a bible based reply rather than trying to ridicule a great man of God. Unbelief is not new and men will always have 'proof' to support their unbelief. A Christian is not an epitom of perfection, he is work in progress so if you are questioning Christ based on what some pastor has done to you then you are utterly mistaken.
For any that earnestly desire to know the truth you can drop me a line on azubikeezeilio@gmail.com and I will gladly call you (yes I can spend my credit on that) and explain the very wonderful word of God to you. For the malicious bunch, it's simple; every knee shall bow, you just might bow in hell when it is too late because I assure you, the day of Christ will come and He will separate the wheat from the chaff,

nuclearboy:

^^^ I just addressed this issue now, bro.

Most people do NOT know what they are doing! Here on NL, we call them WOFers, name and claim 101, etc. They come making noise expecting God to behave like personal bodyguards and at the same time an armed robber who gives them cash even when they don't have work. Its such people that are fooled.

But you cannot show me a counterfeit 5, 000 Naira note today BECAUSE there is no genuine. In effect, without a genuine, there is no counterfeit; which implies there are genuine. Pastor-worshippers are definitely fake. Pastors that allow themselves to be worshipped too are also fake.

Good point taken.Now tell me this, how many so called Christians go to church for the LOVE OF GOD and not promise of blessings/miracles? How many church goers go to service for the sake of being Christ-like without expecting any worldly return? How many so called Christians attend a church where they is no "power of god" present? How many?

azubike1:

[b]The bible says the god of this age has blinded the eyes of men. [/b]I see it even in posts here. The person that started this post just wants to raise dust. If he had really wanted to know he should have asked his pastor (if he has one) and gotten a bible based reply rather than trying to ridicule a great man of God. Unbelief is not new and men will always have 'proof' to support their unbelief. A Christian is not an epitom of perfection, he is work in progress so if you are questioning Christ based on what some pastor has done to you then you are utterly mistaken.
For any that earnestly desire to know the truth you can drop me a line on azubikeezeilio@gmail.com and I will gladly call you (yes I can spend my credit on that) and explain the very wonderful word of God to you. For the malicious bunch, it's simple; every knee shall bow, you just might bow in hell when it is too late because I assure you, the day of Christ will come and He will separate the wheat from the chaff,

What if the bible was written by an Igbo man? Would you have so much faith in it as you do now? Would you swallow everything you read from it hook, line and sinker knowing that it was your town's man of old that had a share in writing his own piece? What proof do you have to validate that the bible is indeed the word of god except for the fact that you were raised in Christian doctrine from childhood? Ehh? What concrete proof? Is it the fraudulent laying of hands or the outrageous claims of miracles that are wide spread these days? Which is it?

@harakiri, i wouldn't go so far to say that God is confused. you do know that the bible is a compilation of books written by various disciples.it was the catholic church that decided which book should be added and which should not. some of the books were considered heretical and not fit to be included(e.g i think the dead sea scrolls,I'm not sure).while some where dangerous to read( the full seven books of Moses). if you are to take the whole bible at it's word it's so full of contradictory messages and double meanings that you would go crazy. a balance was decided upon however it wasn't perfect.

harakiri:

The Isrealites are God's.Point taken.Who did the others belong to? Hmmm? Who do YOU belong to?Are you an Israelite?

Every choice is "right" or "wrong", "God" or "satan". You choose God means you reject satan. You reject God means you accept satan.

We addressed the "Israelite" issue before - are you reading my posts? All believers today are spiritually "Israelite" just as some call themselves "blue" cos they support a football club. Abi you don see color blue human before?

The issue you raised about food is interesting. Please do a search on google for Old testament food. You might be suprised to find the diet was the best suited to the wilderness and the type of life they lived in it. As time went by and people settled (especially with gentiles coming into christianity), there was a shift in priorities - food for warriors on the march differs from food in an urbane environment. Also, the gentiles had their own customs.

Your last question is about who goes to church for the love of God and who for money? Again its self explanatory -Christianity's reward is in heaven, not on earth. That is what the Apostles looked forward to, not to buying "private jets" and collecting tithes from poor people.

interesting thread, please dont stop now because alot of us are reading with curiosity.I believe the creator invest power into this world.I have seen miralcle, The bible read by Christians of today differs by many chapters and thousand of paragraphs from the original. Which one is the word of god and why does man edit it?

The issue of the authorship of the Bible is one that people will continue talking of for always. There was one brilliant thread here on NL where some of the best minds here discussed its authors and inerrancy.

Basically, MY own view is this - the Bible is not a textbook like physics or math. It is a guide, a summary, an idea. One brilliant person said take a statement and shake it till all the words fall off and then, you'll have the message. Israel were slaves, rescued by God, marched through the wilderness, finally got to the promised land. That is the words. The truth is you were lost to sin (slave in Egypt), you received Christ (rescued by God), had to go through a period of refinement (wilderness experience which can be typified by the life of the Apostles, not todays billionaire pastors), and finally get to heaven (the promised land).

Such stories fill the Bible and when you get the idea, you understand its beauty - simple and written by simple men yet guided by God to contain and pass across what He decided. Details abound as almost all situations are covered in the SAME WAY, not as a physics book which would discuss HEAT and get only one answer always. With this case, its different depending on the situation yet it tells the truth every single time.

So whether Igbo, Igbira, chinese or Arabian author, what matters is the Hand behind it all - Gods' guiding its progress over thousands of years and ensuring it carries His message to us

nuclearboy:

The issue of the authorship of the Bible is one that people will continue talking of for always. There was one brilliant thread here on NL where some of the best minds here discussed its authors and inerrancy.

Basically, MY own view is this - the Bible is not a textbook like physics or math. It is a guide, a summary, an idea. One brilliant person said take a statement and shake it till all the words fall off and then, you'll have the message. Israel were slaves, rescued by God, marched through the wilderness, finally got to the promised land. That is the words. The truth is you were lost to sin (slave in Egypt), you received Christ (rescued by God), had to go through a period of refinement (wilderness experience which can be typified by the life of the Apostles, not todays billionaire pastors), and finally get to heaven (the promised land).

Such stories fill the Bible and when you get the idea, you understand its beauty - simple and written by simple men yet guided by God to contain and pass across what He decided. Details abound as almost all situations are covered in the SAME WAY, not as a physics book which would discuss HEAT and get only one answer always. With this case, its different depending on the situation yet it tells the truth every single time.

So whether Igbo, Igbira, chinese or Arabian author, what matters is the Hand behind it all - Gods' guiding its progress over thousands of years and ensuring it carries His message to us

Well detailed.Nicely constructed post.Now tell me something. . .what concrete proof have you seen or can you provide that those bible writers of old were indeed influenced by the supreme being? I need concrete proof, not some text or verse from the bible.How can you validate it's authenticity?

@ poster;

It appears that Nigerians crave miracles and don't mind d source, Mind you, is not only to receive miracles of all sort that matters, but to be a practising christian, an ardent believer. Fear God by doing his will/obeying his commadments.

Miracles that are not carried out in accordance with d word of God are questionable!

I believe in miracle and expects u to, while we allow God to judge.

I believe.

Its amazing, someone started this thread but Harakiri seemed to have hijacked it! lol!

Ok, dear Mr Harakiri- at original posters question. I believe in 'falling' under the power. People do not fall because someone made them fall but because their bodies were overwhelmed by the power of the Holy Spirit.

It is true that we have the Holy Spirit in us as born again Christians, so what Pastor Chris is "giving" them is not the Holy Spirit but I call it the impartation of the Spirit/the power of God.
God is everywhere but His manifested presence is not everywhere.

In Pastor Chris' meetings, the power and presence of God is made tangible, when he says "take it", its the power of the Holy Ghost made available in the meeting that he directs to such people.

If a man has faith he will receive that power and turn it or use it for whatever he desires in his life. He can take it and fall becasue his body is overwhelmed by the power of the most high, he can also take it and NOT fall. This however does not mean that the one who did not fall did not have faith or did not catch enough power.
It depends.
As far as im concerned, the power of God/the workings of the Spirit is not something we need to start reasoning out.

To put an end to your scepticism, I would say that you all attend the next crusade Pastor Chris holds, where I am sure that people will "take it", you do not have to close your eyes at any point in time so you can see well.

Only that experience will solve your doubt.
I will alert you all when he is about to hold a crusade or program.

^^^ Consider the example I just gave you. The comparision of Old testament to New testament - the direct parallels. Egypt was how many years ago, the wilderness etc. How come they so fit my parallels of today? You say God changes His mind - I say NO, He progresses into "the next step" which is a better place and all of it is laid out clearly.

Again, the prophecies of Daniel in Daniel 7 are a continual source of amazement to me. He lived under Darius when the Roman Empire had not begun and yet in his dreams saw and wrote of amazing things that have been found to happen exactly as he said hundreds and thousands of years after he died. Just google "prophecies of Daniel" or even prophecies of Revelations. I have a B.S in Computer Science but like to read and have come across stuff that sincerely amazes me off the internet. I do not believe because I was brought up by Christians but because I find Jesus in Ifa, in Islam, in the Bhavagad-Ghita, everywhere. There always is a link that points to truth. Please note that if I did not read and study about those religions, I would not know. Why Jesus? Why? Is there any other name that crosses ALL borders? Ifa is Yoruba/Brazil/Haiti. Islam is Arabia. The orientals own the Ghita and associated writings. Where did they all get this information from. Or would you tell me "ELA" (deliverer) in Ifa was brought into Ifa by white men?

Bro, we plenty small for this world O. And many people study to lengths you wouldn't believe because it would look insane to you. I'm just saying consider the "FACTS". God is not a pastor. He is not your typical person walking around looking for a score at any cost.

Folusade:

Its amazing, someone started this thread but Harakiri seemed to have hijacked it! lol!

Ok, dear Mr Harakiri- at original posters question. I believe in 'falling' under the power. People do not fall because someone made them fall but because their bodies were overwhelmed by the power of the Holy Spirit.

It is true that we have the Holy Spirit in us as born again Christians, so what Pastor Chris is "giving" them is not the Holy Spirit but I call it the impartation of the Spirit/the power of God.
God is everywhere but His manifested presence is not everywhere.

In Pastor Chris' meetings, the power and presence of God is made tangible, when he says "take it", its the power of the Holy Ghost made available in the meeting that he directs to such people.

If a man has faith he will receive that power and turn it or use it for whatever he desires in his life. He can take it and fall becasue his body is overwhelmed by the power of the most high, he can also take it and NOT fall. This however does not mean that the one who did not fall did not have faith or did not catch enough power.
It depends.
As far as im concerned, the power of God/the workings of the Spirit is not something we need to start reasoning out.

To put an end to your scepticism, I would say that you all attend the next crusade Pastor Chris holds, where I am sure that people will "take it", you do not have to close your eyes at any point in time so you can see well.

Only that experience will solve your doubt.
I will alert you all when he is about to hold a crusade or program.

I have been to his crusades a few times several years ago and during my university days, i hopped into Christ Embassy fellowships with my friends every once in a while so. . .

What Chris does it sell hope to the people and that's about it.His so called miracles are outright frauds.Not too long ago, someone opened up a thread about his sham healing school with pictures as proof to show the world what that church is all about.Two years ago, i read at article on www.sunnewsonline.com about a journalist that was severely tortured by bodyguards at the command of senior members of the church RIGHT THERE IN THE CHURCH PREMISES! They humiliated him, dehumanized him and made all sorts of remarks about his shabby dressing and seized his camera.Earlier this year or so, a young man almost blew himself up trying to bomb Chris because the outstanding money being owed wasn't being paid and the senior church members were tossing him about.You can imagine the wickedness being perpetrated in the so called house of god.Like they say, a leopard never hides it's spots.You can pretend to be something you're not but at some point, people will begin to see you for what you really are unless of course, they choose to be blind to the obvious.

How many times has Chris preached the real gospel concerning living a righteous life and struggling to make heaven? How many times has he preached on the dangers of going to hell? Even when he makes a short mention of it, it's albeit short/brief and he reverts back to his prosperity gospel and "laying of hands" which is the real reason why his "customers" are there in the first place.Nobody wants to hear about spending eternity in hell coz a lot of them indulge in all sorts of negative activity either at work or business to make ends meet so ultimately, everyone in that church including the fraud who parades himself as a man of god is damned to hell!

Last time i checked, Christianity was supposed to be about being kind,sharing and modest.I never saw anywhere in the bible that portrayed Jesus or any of the apostles as being wealthy fellows but what do we see and hear today? They will tell you that Peter was a rich fisherman (a guy in a wooden boat and a fish net being rich?Isn't that ridiculous?), they will tell you that their god is not a poor god. . .all excuses so they can flaunt their wealth or let me rephrase. . .their "earnings" with careless abandon.Jesus never rode a horse (which was a sign of being average at least in those days).The only comfortable means of transport he ever experienced was when he rode on a donkey in the triumphant entry into Jerusalem and i don't know if you've been in close proximity of a donkey or mule but that is one animal you don't want to ride on.It's as stubborn as a goat and could lead right into a ditch if you are not careful. . .so tell me, where is all this wealth they talked about?

The in thing for this so called men of god is to acquire private jets.What on earth do they need these jets for? They will tell you they are evangelizing?To who? To the same white man who exported his religion to your country in the first place?Who are they fooling? Well, greed is a very powerful weakness that can blind even the most intelligent folks that is why you see a semi-illiterate who can barely speak a simple well constructed sentence in English defrauding a well educated professor from Harvard.That's how powerful greed is.It blinds you to the obvious crap happening around. . .just like in the churches.

Most of the big churches today have institutions of higher learning.These schools were built by the contributions of members of the church majority of which are either average or below average standard of living.These people cannot afford to send their children to these schools.In fact, if you can send your kids to these schools, you might just as well send your kids overseas.Is that what Christianity is all about? The rich keep getting richer while the poor are trampled upon?

^^^ This post of yours shows the problem Christianity has today - people looking from outside see the truth more than those inside. But it is good that people are learning that most "mogs" as they like to be called are full of issues in the eyes of society. But its not all their fault for when the laity calls a human MAN OF GOD, what they are saying is that they themselves are either MEN OF THE DEVIL or ORDINARY MEN BELOW THE MEN OF GOD. What the Bible says however, is we are brothers with only one "Oga" or teacher, Christ Himself. No one should be called Master, teacher, Rabbi and definitely not Father.

I hope someone will pick something from your post.

nuclearboy:

^^^ Consider the example I just gave you. The comparision of Old testament to New testament - the direct parallels. Egypt was how many years ago, the wilderness etc. How come they so fit my parallels of today? You say God changes His mind - I say NO, He progresses into "the next step" which is a better place and all of it is laid out clearly.

Again, the prophecies of Daniel in Daniel 7 are a continual source of amazement to me. He lived under Darius when the Roman Empire had not begun and yet in his dreams saw and wrote of amazing things that have been found to happen exactly as he said hundreds and thousands of years after he died. Just google "prophecies of Daniel" or even prophecies of Revelations. I have a B.S in Computer Science but like to read and have come across stuff that sincerely amazes me off the internet. I do not believe because I was brought up by Christians but because I find Jesus in Ifa, in Islam, in the Bhavagad-Ghita, everywhere. There always is a link that points to truth. Please note that if I did not read and study about those religions, I would not know. Why Jesus? Why? Is there any other name that crosses ALL borders? Ifa is Yoruba/Brazil/Haiti. Islam is Arabia. The orientals own the Ghita and associated writings. Where did they all get this information from. Or would you tell me "ELA" (deliverer) in Ifa was brought into Ifa by white men?

Bro, we plenty small for this world O. And many people study to lengths you wouldn't believe because it would look insane to you. I'm just saying consider the "FACTS". God is not a pastor. He is not your typical person walking around looking for a score at any cost.

I am not addressing the pastor. . .i asked you to give me proof that the bible writers were indeed influenced by the supreme being.That's all.I don't need a chapter or verse from the bible.I need concrete proof that indeed the bible is the real deal.

Shikena.

Should I produce a certificate of authenticity signed by God with satan as His witness?

I can only speak, friend. Conviction comes from inside. Its called an "experience with God"

nuclearboy:

Should I produce a certificate of authenticity signed by God with satan as His witness? 

I can only speak, friend. Conviction comes from inside. Its called an "experience with God" 

Okay,

I guess we'd better leave it at that before the argument becomes pear shaped.

You read computer science? That's cool.I read a similar course too myself.You're good in programming?