@beaf I apologize for my statement I get your point I misinterpreted your post.yeah its true java and c# are much more better to start with cause am doing java now and the loose type language affects me when it comes to java,

netghost:

@beef, i changed my mind let me have a chat with u first, u can send your number to this mail and i will contact u
mittjames@yahoo.com

Watch out for any changes to my signature in the next few days (latest Wednesday), you'll be able to contact me through a 3rd party. Either that, or I'll send a contact to your email by Wednesday.

pc guru:

@beaf I apologize for my statement I get your point I misinterpreted your post.yeah its true java and c# are much more better to start with cause am doing java now and the loose type language affects me when it comes to java,

No issues. We Nigerians are hot headed types.
You are experiencing exactly the sort of problems that come from learning to code with the wrong language. I'll advise that you totally dump any PHP or Classic ASP mindset and start with a totally clean mind. Do a lot of reading first to gain background info, then delve in and destroy.
If you enjoy reading a lot, I'd recommend this page; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_(programming_language) One of the best parts of Wikipedia is the refferences at the bottom of the page, some are nuggets of the purest gold.

The most damaging effect of learning PHP or Classic ASP as a first language is that, vast areas where we should have an instinctive strictness are ignored to our peril as effective developers. I can bet that you might have issues not only with strong typing, but also with quite a few OO concepts and also things like strict ways of separating code from presentation.

no probs

Beaf:

You'll be sooooooo shocked to find that I'm your dad!!!!!!!!

This part made me roll on the floor and laugh, My DAD keh! HABA!

Beaf:


Don't tell lies my friend, its not good for your health. I challenge you to post a link to the bolded or accept the toga of a lier.
All dis small small pikin dem sef!

If only you took much more time reading other people's post, you would have found out that i never did mention it as a Nairalander's hand work

. . .You've learnt PHP and now think you're a god? Na wa o! Only children would compare Java and PHP, or other equivalent rubbish for kids like classic ASP (VBScript).

I am not a god bros ohh, neither do i have such notion! I never compare any of them either, i am only making a point for both of them, and also correct your mindset about other technologies! Which i feel is impossible.

The fact that i dont program ASP(VBScript) does not make me downgrade it, it only goes to show i have a lot to learn!

@ Beaf, honestly, i have too many things to bother on than have such a long debate with you over languages.

Let me tell you a fact, after coding and coding JSP, i developed a lot of interest and love for the language,, but when i met a pal (Nairalander) Java Certifed, Oracle Certified, and many other Certificates, one who codes Java for foreign companies and even developed a Java based application for the Former President's , He told me i should drop JSP and kill PHP. Then, i felt real angry, but honestly for a lot of reasons i am appreciating it.

I believe you are a programmer and should know a lotta things, one of which is that, almost all Programming languages follow similar Syntax, Programs are made up of instructions, and other fins, like loops, conditionals, and some other regular things used, be it Java or PHP,

When you talk of Java, i take it as a technology, and since i mostly develop web based applications and solutions, i think, i should speak on JSP,

JSP is simply too much stress for a simple thing, what PHP can achieve in 6 line JSP will achieve with 100's of line,

To me that suck! JSP is more secured no doubt, and also robust and allows some crazy fuctions, but when you talk of powering a site, i know with many measures, PHP can prove itself much more greater than you think!

A programmer for Cham City, who i once learnt and worked for, even mentioned that it simply sucks, using JSP for simple things that PHP can do.

If you look up his site, it is powered with PHP, but he teaches JAVA,

Good programmers, are not people who make noise and critisize technologies, neither are they people who are ready to stay up 23 hours with an IDE, also the best programmers are not people that look only at downpoint of languages, rather, they are people ready to embrace knowledge of a technology and make the best out of it in developing bug free and secure applications.

Mr Beaf, i think you should look more into understanding things than talking too much! 

^
I take it that you are a "cut and nail" developer, who is satisfied with where you currently are.

. . .
I believe you are a programmer and should know a lotta things, one of which is that, almost all Programming languages follow similar Syntax, Programs are made up of instructions, and other fins, like loops, conditionals, and some other regular things used, be it Java or PHP,
. . .

First things; I am not a programmer, I am a software developer, thank you.
Now according to you, "almost all Programming languages follow similar Syntax". Oh yes! So true. If you need to get to Sokoto from Lagos, which would you rather take, a car or a bicycle? You see, both operate on the same priciples, afterall they both have wheels which pull and push the mechanism to its destibition. Does that sound reasonable? I could devote time to weep for you, but it will be time wasted.

JSP is simply too much stress for a simple thing, what PHP can achieve in 6 line JSP will achieve with 100's of line,

100's of lines? Damn! Charlie, I doubt that you know what you are doing or how to achieve it.

To me that suck! JSP is more secured no doubt, and also robust and allows some crazy fuctions, but when you talk of powering a site, i know with many measures, PHP can prove itself much more greater than you think!

You might be used to building homepages and think the World ends there. The World would laugh its head off at anyone that suggests PHP for websites that do real-time enterprise level math (e.g banking, SETI etc) or websites that need the tightest security (e.g. military). You have a very small Worldview that needas expanding, or if you aren't willing, give way and allow the new crop of developers to feed on fertile ground.

I think some people are over celebrated here on NLAND, cause of their ability to throw insults.

Just spent some time reading up on both technologies as in googling JSP VS PHP and i got a lotta fins that PHP is mostly prefared even by foreign coders.

consider this links:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1283413/php-vs-jsp-which-should-i-learn

http://www.webmaster-talk.com/coding-forum/113214-jsp-vs-php.html

http://www.tutkiun.com/2009/09/php-vs-jsp-vs-asp_8057.html

http://www.pointafter.com/Archives/nl0203.htm

http://mytechrantings..com/2007/06/php-vs-jsp.html

It clearly shows that majority of the programmer share my view, even though i never read about their opinions before i wrote!

Thanks!

@Beaf, You are free to believe whatever about me. It's a free world!

But i have a question for you,

Why do Joomla and Drupal use PHP? Are the developers also "Cut and nail coders " ?

Donpuzo:

@Beaf, You are free to believe whatever about me. It's a free world!

But i have a question for you,

Why do Joomla and Drupal use PHP? Are the developers also "Cut and nail coders " ?

So thats your ultimate technology? Damn!

You should be able to write such software yourself or organise a group of devs to do it, even if not for sale.
By all means, these things are good tech, but they are far from ultimate.

Donpuzo:

I think some people are over celebrated here on NLAND, cause of their ability to throw insults.

Just spent some time reading up on both technologies as in googling JSP VS PHP and i got a lotta fins that PHP is mostly prefared even by foreign coders.

consider this links:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1283413/php-vs-jsp-which-should-i-learn

http://www.webmaster-talk.com/coding-forum/113214-jsp-vs-php.html

http://www.tutkiun.com/2009/09/php-vs-jsp-vs-asp_8057.html

http://www.pointafter.com/Archives/nl0203.htm

http://mytechrantings..com/2007/06/php-vs-jsp.html

It clearly shows that majority of the programmer share my view, even though i never read about their opinions before i wrote!

Thanks!

I only clicked the first link out of curiosity, only to find that the best answer is basically saying the same things I have said here. I think you just have selective hearing.

As for people being celebrated for vile language, all prizes should go to you; after all, you abused me for no reason over several days, only to cry foul when I picked up the mantle and stood up to laugh at you. Go on, its ok to cry to mummy.

abeg d guy say e wan learn php , make e learn am in peace o, php is relatively easy, you can still go further from there but  knowledge of php only will not get you a high paying job, unless you become good enough to develop web applications like the simple machine forum nairlaland is currently using and you start selling  . ( its free though)   I learnt php but it was just to increase my general computer knowledge, when it comes to security , a lot of web app developed using php have security holes , but java and javascript are also dangerous when it comes to client side, that is why there are addons disabling them by default, and your browser warns you before you run a java app. If you just want to learn it to have the knowledge generally, pls go ahead, if you want to make money or a career out of it, you have to learn other languages too

no offense to Beef and Donpuzo, both of u are missing the point, there is a place for all these languages, it boils down to using the right tool for the right job. why kill an ant with a shot gun?   for example, forum sites like NL can safely use php to quickly generate pages without any real harm to its overall security and using ASP in my opinion will be an over kill. another example is when someone needs a router for a small office of 3 computers and one network printer and u start to suggest he/her buys a cisco 3845 router that can support 2500 vpn tunnels when a simple linksys or netgear (5 to 8 switch port) router will do the trick even with a small possibility of expansion in the future; pure over kill. more so, all technologies have their flaws as there is no perfect technology, all can be exploited; like i always say, made by man, will be destroyed by man! in my book, understanding the project at hand and implementation is a bigger risk than the actual language or tool used. when i meet programmers fighting over when to use tcl instead of python, i know 4 sure that they dont fully understand what the project really entails.  my point is this both of u (Beef and Donpuzo) are smart guys, so let this argument go.

@ OP

why are u interested in php? u can start learning from the php website itself http://us2.php.net/tut.php, this is also a very good website to learn from http://www.w3schools.com/php/default.asp (ironically, the site was designed with asp!   ). u can also download free e-books on line from various websites or just go to 4shared or rapidshare to download them.  let me know if u need further help, if i am not too busy i will lend u a helping hand

obojo:

abeg d guy say e wan learn php ,  make e learn am in peace o,  php is relatively easy,  you can still go further from there but  knowledge of php only will not get you a high paying job, unless you become good enough to develop web applications like the simple machine forum nairlaland is currently using and you start selling  . ( its free though)   I learnt php but it was just to increase my general computer knowledge,  when it comes to security , a lot of web app developed using php have security holes ,  but java and javascript are also dangerous when it comes to client side,  that is why there are addons disabling them by default,  and your browser warns you before you run a java app. If you just want to learn it to have the knowledge generally,  pls go ahead,  if you want to make money or a career out of it,  you have to learn other languages too

Gbam! Two great point out of there, that i also said! It is easier to learn. You can go further cause of some really good features!

Second stressed point, no language is perfect! JAVA has it's issues, so do others!.

na2day?:

[b]no offense to Beef and Donpuzo, both of u are missing the point, there is a place for all these languages, it boils down to using the right tool for the right job. why kill an ant with a shot gun?   for example, forum sites like NL can safely use php to quickly generate pages without any real harm to its overall security and using ASP in my opinion will be an over kill. another example is when someone needs a router for a small office of 3 computers and one network printer and u start to suggest he/her buys a cisco 3845 router that can support 2500 vpn tunnels when a simple linksys or netgear (5 to 8 switch port) router will do the trick even with a small possibility of expansion in the future; pure over kill. more so, all technologies have their flaws as there is no perfect technology, all can be exploited; like i always say, made by man, will be destroyed by man! in my book, understanding the project at hand and implementation is a bigger risk than the actual language or tool used[/b]. when i meet programmers fighting over when to use tcl instead of python, i know 4 sure that they dont fully understand what the project really entails.  my point is this both of u (Beef and Donpuzo) are smart guys, so let this argument go.

I made him understand that it's waste using JSP to do a simply fin, like login system, even the slow time is enough to make surfers find their way!

I bet the poster wanted to learn the language he sees major sites powered on, and BEEF, swung in and said He should not even bother or try learning it! For God sake he can add PHP to his knowledge and later migrate to using JSP if the need arises!

@BEEF, Sorry if you felt insulted, but you sounded a bit drunk when you posted the first post on this thread, if only you read it again and again, then send a copy to a very vast programmer! He would laugh his B.U.T.T
out!

@Donpuzo i get Beaf's Point he's not saying PHP is bad he's just saying that he should start with C and C++ or Java and frankly i think i agree with him because there are tons of concepts in Java/C that i never came across in PHP though maybe quite few but the major the Strict type Language and initialization in Java in Php u can get away with it,which is bad practice especially in Java,also as to Enterprise Application Obviously PHP can't be depended on cuz it will just bottleneck the server, i think that's what Java/C# exist since they run on the Client's Machine, the reason why i support it to is that starting with a low level language like C is always good and in terms of speed i think C/C++ is faster since they are almost in machine codes as to Java.but as someone said Php has its uses and it suits SMF,and CMS well obviously anything built by man will always have security loopholes and for all you think those loopholes might have been intentional just to give customers a good reason to upgrade, yeah both Donpuzo and Beaf are smart am glad we are having this constructive criticism,

@PC GURU, Yes na, na just small argument. PC GURU. If you see the issues Java can give hen, it can take a programmer off coding indefinitely.

Server go spoil, you must reinstall it, as in on your local end ohh, Also before you switch to TOMCAT from GlassFish, that one self go find him way!

Sometimes, NetBean go dey act up self.

Java technology is simply too tedious to use for Small scale and Medium Scale applications.

But seriously, no language is perfect, when i started Core PHP, i experienced the same thing. My Server crashed six times, had to go to bed! When i came the next day, i sorted the problem!

Its a good thing you want to learn php. For anyone who wants to start off with little capital and not depending on some paid job php is the way to go. You can easily get clients because it is cheaper to manage. An ASP.net job can take you eternity to find a host, and when you find one be ready to pay well. ASP.NET is only useful to large corporate firms who can afford the stress. If you really want to learn any one of them perfectly with immediate practical with a live online server check me out on campus. Unilag Akoka. Computer science department.

Yeah The Hosting issue is really vital as to most hosting company support PHP but some too do use IIS who serves both ASP and PHP but that fears me cuz i usually use htaccess and some of the codes are apache specifics, @Donpuzo anyway long time ur noy is gracefully unemployed but i dey do my java at aptech take care will hit u

iniking:

Its a good thing you want to learn php. For anyone who wants to start off with little capital and not depending on some paid job php is the way to go. You can easily get clients because it is cheaper to manage. An ASP.net job can take you eternity to find a host, and when you find one be ready to pay well.

what planet are u from, or better still what hosting companies do u use, cos i have never come across a standard hosting company that does not offer windows hosting, whats with the talk about it begin easier to manage and get clients, i think that left to how well you can market urself

iniking:

. If you really want to learn any one of them perfectly with immediate practical with a live online server check me out on campus. Unilag Akoka. Computer science department.

i would not take this offer if i were u, the dude has already shown ignorance

@netghost, He may have a point, cause when i see all this hosts, they happen to mostly write (PHP/SQL, and other offers) really have not come across any that writes JSP and ASP among their many offers, If i have, maybe few!

And that does not mean i am suggesting he is right, just saying most hosts are PHP lovers!

@OP : You want to learn PHP? Great idea, it's a good place to start and there
are a lot of interesting things you can do with PHP.

Since you asked, I'll recommend a training link for you as follows:

http://webdeveloper.zetatronix.com/

Check it out

Donpuzo:

@PC GURU, Yes na, na just small argument. PC GURU. If you see the issues Java can give hen, it can take a programmer off coding indefinitely.

Server go spoil, you must reinstall it, as in on your local end ohh, Also before you switch to TOMCAT from GlassFish, that one self go find him way!

Sometimes, NetBean go dey act up self.

Java technology is simply too tedious to use for Small scale and Medium Scale applications.

But seriously, no language is perfect, when i started Core PHP, i experienced the same thing. My Server crashed six times, had to go to bed! When i came the next day, i sorted the problem!

The fear of your tools is the first sign of the "Cut and nail coder".
When you learn properly from the start, you avoid having such "issues Java can give" that "can take a programmer off coding indefinitely".

All I'm advising the OP (as pc guru has noted), is to learn from the ground up, so as to avoid the bitter experiences you explained above, exhibited here (like your example of PHP for socket programming); the effects of which, were no doubt transferred to very unfortunate customers. It is really easy to become a dangerous accident running around with a computer.

I am all about the Nigerian developer being as good as those elsewhere.

PHP can do socket programming? JavaScript can do ADO! I remember some crazy dude at the office wrote up some software that worked just fine, except it was all database code in client side JavaScript. . . all you had to do was "View Source" and voilla! The dude was about to gift the World server and database inards. Even though it worked, needless to say, the fool was sacked.

Beaf, you are just posting things that are off the topic and argument,

How does coding from start or using an IDE affect tomcat's crash,

My point is that coding JAVA could be a lot of hell to a newbie, considering it's a High Level Programming language and many things may go wrong, far from the code angle.


2. I never said Socket Programming crashed my Server, and for the record, i am not a socket programmer, only had interest in it cause of a Nlander who programs it with c++.

Also, do know that some languages can do somethings just the way you want it to, although may have it's limitation, If i choose to code something which is obtainable with PHP and also Java using PHP, and will work with 100 percent Uptime, i see nothing unprofessional about that.

I really wonder when Javascript became able to talk to a Database, lmfao, Some dudes are funny in CodersLand!!!!

Beaf:

The fear of your tools is the first sign of the "Cut and nail coder".

guess ur right here

Beaf:

JavaScript can do ADO! I remember some crazy dude at the office wrote up some software that worked just fine, except it was all database code in client side JavaScript. . . all you had to do was "View Source" and voilla! The dude was about to gift the World server and database inards. Even though it worked, needless to say, the fool was sacked.

BEEF BEEF ,

You can connect to database from client-side script, if MDAC is installed on client's computer.
Just Update strConn with the correct Data Source, and SQL query as desired.

its going to be something like this

<html>
<head>
<title>Entitled Document</title>
<script language="JavaScript">
function getCount(){
var cn = new ActiveXObject("ADODB.Connection";
var strConn = "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data Source = C:\clientDB.mdb;Persist Security Info=False";
cn.Open(strConn);
var rs = new ActiveXObject("ADODB.Recordset";
var SQL = "select count(*) from Customers";
rs.Open(SQL, cn);
alert(rs(0));
rs.Close();
cn.Close();

}
</script>
</head>
<body>
<input type="button" value="Get count" onclick="getCount()">
</body>
</html>

but BEEF i still think that story is a BLOODDDDDDDYYYYYYYY LIEEEEEE

@netghost
Its 100% true, it happened some years ago (dude was even a contractor). All I can call it is gross abuse of technology. We where all like, "Holy crap!" when we saw it.
. . .I sent you an email yesterday.

@Donpuzo
You are missing the point by a wide margin. Most modern Software engineering principles (e.g. PHP OO is very weak) are better grasped with modern, stricter lower level languages like C# and Java. Ok, lets leave the PHP socket programming aside, it is still easy to fall into bad habits when you start the wrong way up.
If you first learn languages like C# or Java, you can be up and running with PHP within a week (I was).

Lets move on from the little war, we are bigger than that.

@Beaf, Just laughing like hell here,

I really wonder how it is possible to code an application that works with core database work with Javascript, I sent a coder a mail of it, And he said he must see the person who did it and the person who claimed so,

Told another, he wasted my 500Naira Airtime laughing in his house,

Since you saw the code, do paste it, Sorry ohh, maybe my knowledge is still too low to know if that just became possible with Jscript!

2. Java is not a Low Level Programming language, it uses a compiler to compile the codes!, Pls stop saying wrong things! I wonder how much level you have with Java!

As for the reason you enumerated, You are very correct, People who learn Java or/and C++ first tend to kill PHP!

As for the war, Bros, i never had one with you, When i have 30 mins of my day outside coding i use it to talk to co-programmers!

Am a php guy. Contact: 08030966804

Am a php guy. Contact: 08030966804

@BEEF, did not get the mail send it again to mittjames@yahoo.com


in that case i think the dude should have being hanged

^
Will do.

Donpuzo:

@Beaf, Just laughing like hell here,

I really wonder how it is possible to code an application that works with core database work with Javascript, I sent a coder a mail of it, And he said he must see the person who did it and the person who claimed so,

Told another, he wasted my 500Naira Airtime laughing in his house,

Since you saw the code, do paste it, Sorry ohh, maybe my knowledge is still too low to know if that just became possible with Jscript!

2. Java is not a Low Level Programming language, it uses a compiler to compile the codes!, Pls stop saying wrong things! I wonder how much level you have with Java!

As for the reason you enumerated, You are very correct, People who learn Java or/and C++ first tend to kill PHP!

As for the war, Bros, i never had one with you, When i have 30 mins of my day outside coding i use it to talk to co-programmers!

I described Java as a lower level language than PHP (go and read it again). You and your friends actually spent time laughing rather than try out some actual code to check if its possible? How shocking is that? I am now convinced that I am wasting time on an outright id!ot.

Beaf:


You are missing the point by a wide margin. Most modern Software engineering principles (e.g. PHP OO is very weak) are better grasped with modern, stricter lower level languages like C# and Java. Ok, lets leave the PHP socket programming aside, it is still easy to fall into bad habits when you start the wrong way up.
If you first learn languages like C# or Java, you can be up and running with PHP within a week (I was).

Lets move on from the little war, we are bigger than that.

What makes it a lower level language than PHP There is either high or low, Don't f.0.o.0l urself around bros!!!

Just take it that we learn everyday, I have also grabbed somethings from talking to you!

PHP has a reflective programming language originally designed for producing dynamic web pages and software applications remotely. PHP is used mainly in server-side scripting, but can be used from a command line interface or in standalone graphical applications. These books are helps to learn PHP in your self,
PHP Bible- John Rojer
PHP with web building- Denial Desusa
Easy to learn PHP basic- Jayden Mia

Normally javascript only communication with database is ajax but donpuzo it could be possible (fingers crossed) if that technology is ActiveX control but to be quite frank I know nothing of activex. But only thing I know is activex has more access than javascript, that could be the case never the less off with his head codes on client side is dangerous, also is it me or is someone flashing his chest for you guys,