Pennywise:

You could be the first person that will be swept away if the landfill fails.

If the company insist on going ahead with this needless project a responsible govt which appreciates the risk to its citizens and its enviroment will tax them appropriately- both state and federal. Even local should find sth in their books.

Yinkaboy:

Eze

Lets get back to history and giving you some education. Dude, I am serious it shows you never left naija, these grand statements


London had megaslum in victorian times, most of east london was a slum , http://www.victorianlondon.org/houses/slums.htm

Yinkaboy:

As to comparing it Mumbai, its a perfect example, the largest slums in the world are in Asia mainly Mumbai http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharavi, as my boy have stated  they problems with power and water, ere our friends at the bbc can tell you http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8138273.stm.

Yinkaboy:

As to building a new city, they have  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mumbai,

Get educated!

nulldev:

A power cut = Power supply not meeting demand?   you lot keep cracking me up. No power failures in Mumbai,  

The eastern suburbs of Bhandup, Mulund and Kanjur, and Thane and Navi Mumbai, which were getting 24 hours of power supply under the zero power cut scheme, are likely to face [size=15pt]power cuts[/size] again, starting Saturday midnight.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Power-cuts-return-to--City-s-eastern-suburbs/Article1-535438.aspx

Dharavi

An urban redevelopment plan is proposed for the Dharavi area, managed by American-trained architect  Mukesh Mehta.  The plan involves the construction of 30,000,000 square feet (2,800,000 m2) of housing, schools, parks and roads to serve the existing 57,000 families residing in the area, along with 40,000,000 square feet (3,700,000 m2) of residential and commercial space for sale. There has been significant local opposition to the plans, largely because existing residents are due to receive only 225 square feet (20.9 m2) of land each. Furthermore, only those families who lived in the area before the year 2000 are slated for resettlement. Concerns have also been raised by residents who fear that some of their small businesses in the "informal" sector may not be relocated under the redevelopment plan. The government has said that it will only legalize and relocate industries that are not "polluting."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharavi

Sky Blue:

You could also be the first person to be crushed to death if a nearby skyscraper you were walking past collapses. Does that mean skyscrapers shouldn't be built? The people handling the project, are they amatures? Is this their first foray into a project of this type? So what are you talking about? Why don't we as well ban anything that involves risk while we are at it? Was the research done before the project started? Were feasibility studies carried out? If so then what really is the issue here if it is not a case of complaining for the sake of it? People first cried "o you are wasting our money" and such were informed it was actually the private sector footing the bill. Now it is fear of risk that the project which is being undertaken by a specialist company might fail? Why don't we also abandon ideas of having a railway system as well since you might be the first to die if the train derails?

Pennywise:

I have no problem standing by a skyscrapper built on solid ground. I prefer this to one built on reclaimed soil whether by dutch engr or not.

What we are talking abt is the necessity. A new biz district doesnt have to be at VI. Lagos still has tens of kms of land that can be dev for that purpose.

This is an ego trip by the CEO of a coy that feels it has arrived. We are simply asking him to be realistic and spend his shareholder's money wisely.

Sky Blue:

Is this the first time a project of this sort has been carried out? You know the project is all an ego trip for a CEO how? Are you a shareholder? Talk about taking panadol for another man's headache.

Pennywise:

I can imagine how badly you want this project done. And may take up a job later at the Atlantic City. When you do Just dont forget to go to work with your briefcase in one hand and a life jacket in the order because you will need it

FROM THE DEVELOPER EMAIL

We expect developers to build up in Eko Atlantic. Taller building serving the needs of residential, commercial, retail, hotel and office space. The city is zoned mixed use. Developers are free to build to their plan, so as long as it adheres to the guidelines stipulated by our planning department.


-Marc

Pple may have contrary views to yours. It doesnt mke them dumb. I wasnt part of the BRT thread and so would nt know what went down. I do know that Some Fashola's ideas though are weired, unrealistic and sometimes plain crazy like the cctv project (I like to know how much the good pple of Lagos got bilked on that one).

Kobojunkie:

Here again Garth,  the Marc Chagouri guy confirming AGAIN that developers are not restricted to building just highrise buildings on their plots. It is up to the individual developers to build what they want as long as zoning laws/guidelines are respected. . . by the way, zoning does not really force folks to build up.

FROM THE DEVELOPER EMAIL

We expect developers to build up in Eko Atlantic. Taller building serving the needs of residential, commercial, retail, hotel and office space. The city is zoned mixed use. Developers are free to build to their plan, so as long as it adheres to the guidelines stipulated by our planning department.


-Marc

OAM4J:

you highlighted the part that suited you, but omitted the part that stated clearly their expectation for taller buildings. besides how many people will buy a land in such area and at such an high price only to build a bungalow? Well there might be some but not many Nigerians are that crazy.

Pennywise:

I have no problem standing by a skyscrapper built on solid ground. I prefer this to one built on reclaimed soil whether by dutch engr or not.

What we are talking abt is the necessity. A new biz district doesnt have to be at VI. Lagos still has tens of kms of land that can be dev for that purpose.

This is an ego trip by the CEO of a coy that feels it has arrived. We are simply asking him to be realistic and spend his shareholder's money wisely.

Yinkaboy:

martinosi

International bond market right, I get it, but did you know that SP and Moodys the credit agencies did not give these banks your bragging about a rating. Meaning international banks did not know there credit worthiness. The banks had to finance the debt strictly through the domestic market. Its also the main reason the CBN has tried to come in clean up the banks. Without a credut rating, no good corporate governance no international bonds. Your looking at a western model, not how business is done in Naija and emerging markets!

Pimco had nothing to do with this at all.  Sorry, dude!

If you don`t believe https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-474907.0.html

The dutch are known worldwide for their feats in projects like this owing to decades if not centuries of experience in their own enviroment. But note that even for them, the struggle is a continous one. They have the men, the tools and the equipment that they keep modifying for the purpose. If the artificial shoreline that will be created is breached, before you bring in any dutch engr, a thousand Nigerians are dead. You can forget about the property loss.

We must not fail to see this project for what it is. An ego trip of a company that thinks it has arrived. When you take on an ocean the rules are changed. You can forget about whatever you have been doing.

If lives are lost needlessly both the company and the acquiescing Lagos govt should be sued for their last kobo. You get nothing from the govt as usual but the coy will pay. A series of litigations like this is all it needs to smoke it out of 'its island'.

We are not talking abt reclaiming marshland or swampy areas. You are taking on the atlantic ocean. Reclamation may fail. Your artificial coastline may collapse leading to dangerous flooding. Kms of built up areas and inhabitants can be under water in minutes.

The metropolis may be crowded but there are still large hundreds of km sq of solid land within Lagos state.

debosky:

@ Pennywise

You are being disingenuous

debosky:

Regarding your comments on the risks:

Land doesn't need to be reclaimed before being subject to dangerous flooding so that is a moot point. Besides, sea defences are being built to protect the reclaimed land. That things 'may' fail cannot be a cogent reason for stopping a project. The risks must be understood and adequate mitigations put in place. Again, this goes down to the quality of the inputs into the project - with the Dutch and Danish experiences applied to the designs, I believe the risks of the above happening will be sufficiently mitigated.

That might be so, but there is no requirement to build on 'solid' land before embarking on reclamation if so desired. Again, the vision of the company must be considered in any assessment of why it chooses to take a reclamation option over building on 'solid' land.

Pennywise:

And you are being rude.

At the end of the day it comes down to a coy's choices, vision (that I consider warped in the face of available options) and its resources. There are precedents in history where extremely wealthy corporations have embarked on needlessly risky even crazy undertakings in developed climes. But taking on the atlantic Ocean in an impoverished third world neighborhood because you have a few borrowed dollars is not a well 'mitigated' risk as far as I am concerned.

A responsible govt owes a duty to its citizens to ensure that needless, flamboyant and potentially dangerous undertakings like this are discouraged through punitive taxes.

The future of Lagos business district may yet lie in the forests of Ikorodu and not even in the atlantic. Even the dutch will tell you that taking on the Ocean is not an easy undertaking. Whether in reclamations or rigs lives are lost frequently in construction and when the Ocean says its payback time.

Vavavoom:

wow!, the battle between free capitalist and tread-carefully socialist.
Both parties mean well, just differ in your core interest.
The capitalist are right when they say other developers can and are free to look inwards mainland Lagos and carve out a niche for themselves. I think the onus lie with the socialist to look for such and make their case with such developer(s). Why hang a man when he sees and pursues a well publicize risk with his fortune? Perhaps the reward for his risk are even greater?
If I have learn't anything from the sub prime it is that some measure of control/regulation (institutional) must be in place to prevent any economic system of practise from a complete meltdown. Socialism has its benefits so too does Capitalism. Both parties should harness the advantages from their system with the other and a winning solution will emerge.

jayflex:

Power generation is worth inviting partners for, so too are textile industries, and general manufacturing of all kinds a stuff. Its appalling that so many people here are reducing opposing views to ''enemies of progress'' and related BS. The general mentality on this thread shows why this country has grown poorer and more backward while the rest of africa gets it act together. Till this government can slow down the craze for property and start investing in REAL things that can employ and grow wealth it will be only known in thirty years time for beautification and little else.

Pennywise:

And you are being rude.

At the end of the day it comes down to a coy's choices, vision (that I consider warped in the face of available options) and its resources. There are precedents in history where extremely wealthy corporations have embarked on needlessly risky even crazy undertakings in developed climes. But taking on the atlantic Ocean in an impoverished third world neighborhood because you have a few borrowed dollars is not a well 'mitigated' risk as far as I am concerned.

A responsible govt owes a duty to its citizens to ensure that needless, flamboyant and potentially dangerous undertakings like this are discouraged through punitive taxes.

The future of Lagos business district may yet lie in the forests of Ikorodu and not even in the atlantic. Even the dutch will tell you that taking on the Ocean is not an easy undertaking. Whether in reclamations or rigs lives are lost frequently in construction and when the Ocean says its payback time.

babapupa:


This is noting but your gutless and vision lacking personal opinion and as shallow as it sounds, you are of course entitled to it.

The job of any responsible government is to continuously seek job creating investment opportunities for the citizenry to better the lives of the people they swore oaths to look after and broaden the tax base and generate more funds for the government to pursue it's other obligations like  building schools, hospital, roads, paying the civil service and maintaining existing infrastructures.

I guess in your mind the state should have said, instead of investing your money,  instead of developing our coast line, instead of building a world class city, instead of creating the main financial, entertainment and leisure hub in Africa, instead of setting up the best motorboat club and marine entertainment in Africa, instead of creating hundreds of thousands of jobs for Lagosians, why don't you go do all that in some bush in Ikorodu?

Obviously, the developers, the contractors, engineers and all the other folks involved have met the state's safety and environmental requirements, videos and other documented facts and simulations about the project is all over the place, take sometime out to read and watch before yahhking away as if you really know what you're talking about.

Thank God people like you are not in charge of anything.

jayflex:

@pennywise

i beg to disagree. Mainstream capitalism has been proved fundamentally flawed as we saw in the recent world-wide depression. Its in the nature of man to be greedy and when it goes unchecked it can be deadly. I have always been a believer in the fact that the government should be a stakeholder or participant in certain sectors such as power generation and distribution, petroleum, transport as well as aviation (in a scenario where there is genuine leadership of course).

Where you leave it to private hands you end up it inbridled profiteering and monopolies like our cement industry as well as salt, sugar and so on.

jayflex:

This just goes to show that the majority of us are either very naive and sheepish (follow follow for the semi-literate) or outright crazy. This project is being floated by bola tinubu with the chagouri's (of the abacha era) and of course with the approval of the lagos state govt that is craving for tax and has lost the plot. I believe some of us know tinubu's recent antecedents.

I really dont give a rats a.s.s if its privately funded by banks in china or the himalayas, there are other much more viable, enduring and ultimately profitable ventures to the general population of lagos that fash and his oga could invite that would put food on the common mans table for generations to come. when property developers are the state government's biggest partners then there is something wrong.  The environmental impact is another matter

Power generation is worth inviting partners for, so too are textile industries, and general manufacturing of all kinds a stuff. Its appalling that so many people here are reducing opposing views to ''enemies of progress'' and related BS. The general mentality on this thread shows why this country has grown poorer and more backward while the rest of africa gets it act together. Till this government can slow down the craze for property and start investing in REAL things that can employ and grow wealth it will be only known in thirty years time for beautification and little else.