nwabekeyi:
you are getting it all wrong.

I disagree

A perfect system won't need rules

That is what you think a perfect system is. But is the absence of rules not anarchy? Even robots which hypothetically cannot disobey their masters operate by rules. For me a perfect system is one that is not contaminated by the disobedience to GOD and the misery it brings

and their will be no standard for anarchy.

Makes no sense. Anarchy by definition is the absence of any standards whatsoever

if the earth were created perfect, there will be no rules hence there will be no anarchy.

anarchy is a factor of rules

You're only giving your own opinion of what a "perfect" earth is. For me, presence of rules does not mean imperfection. But I disagree that the absence of rules is the absence of anarchy. LOL. It's supposed to be the other way round.

Omooba224:
Baba, I have seen the work of copy and paste you did right there.

I copied and pasted and credited the source. Hardly a crime.

As far as the Bible is concerned it is not infallible and can never be a true word of God.

Your opinion. Not backed by any facts.

It is the true word of men.

Your opinion again

Why did the contradictions come so much?

But the harmonization of the alleged contradictions was what you read. Or didn't you read it?

How credible is the source of the gospels?

Very credible. The stories were told by witnesses to them, namely the apostles

You can't find an objective reply to my questions. So sorry to break your heart,

You mean nothing I answer will appeal to you? Don't worry. You didn't break my heart.

the Bible is full work of wise men. Kiss the truth.

I agree. Men who were wise enough to surrender to GOD to be used by Him. I've been kissing the truth since

vaxx:
oni ogunwusi is not a trainned historian or a scholar. I will rather say he is just good at sophistry because his position demands that for peace to prevail among the muslim , Christian and traditionalist. Some youruba suffi muslim also use this line of thought to accomodate all other religion veiws.


But let me dance along with your reasons....

What is prophet adam religion?

Yoruba Sufi Muslims use the line of thought to accommodate all religions views along cultural and tolerance scope. Not mix of religion. There is difference. Islam doesn't forbid muslims from engaging other religions in anything except worship. This Oba is promoting worship or mix of worship by citing false historical record. Therefore he must be refuted.

If Sheikh Adam Abdullah Al-ilory (ra) was alive today, he would shut his mouth.

Adam's religion was (submmision to God) Islam




Refutation Of King Adeyeye Enitan


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24TjtkUhxK8

Empiree:
Yoruba Sufi Muslims use the line of thought to accommodate all religions views along cultural and tolerance scope. Not mix of religion. There is difference. Islam doesn't forbid muslims from engaging other religions in anything except worship. This Oba is promoting worship or mix of worship by citing false historical record. Therefore he must be refuted.

If Sheikh Adam Abdullah Al-ilory (ra) was alive today, he would shut his mouth.

Adam's religion was (submmision to God) Islam




Refutation Of King Adeyeye Enitan


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24TjtkUhxK8

You don't get the comparative ...i am telling you that both line of thought is to establish solidarity among member of their community......even politician use this techniques.

He is not an oba, he is oni (arole oduduwa).oni is promoting tolerance of isese while advocating and pushing the front line of oduduwa which he represent as arole. And he is doing it in a diplomatic means rather than scholarly aproach.

King fahd abudulasis of blessed memory has authotized many quran translation which many scholars agree is ambiguous. Yet the position of fahd was honoured despite not being a scholar because thier position is to influence people decision . So if you want to learn history or scholarly information ...meet the right people for that.

Sheikh adam will better face islamic scholar or simply a student of islamic studies rather than engaging a monarchy. Even alfa agaba (taju adabi) will not be be able to face the nitty gritty discussion of islamic studies discussed in classrom today.


Religion come from the latin word relegare(meaning to bind ) which means adam religion is basically binding by submitting to the will of allah. So if you say adam religion was islam, then you MUST say he was the first Muslim AFTER he was the first pagan and the first Jew, and the first Christian because the Muslim religion came AFTER pagan , Jewish and Christian faiths.

vaxx:
You don't get the comparative ...i am telling you that both line of thought is to establish solidarity among member of their community......even politician use this techniques.

He is not an oba, he is oni (arole oduduwa).oni is promoting tolerance of isese while advocating and pushing the front line of oduduwa which he represent as arole. And he is doing it in a diplomatic means rather than scholarly aproach.

listen, this is not tolerance. If he wanted to preach tolerance, that's a different subject. You don't preach tolerance by making up history that was not there. Islam has nothing to do with obatala, oduduwa etc. Those are Yorubaland mythology. Oni preached religion not tolerance.

King fahd abudulasis of blessed memory has authotized many quran translation which many scholars agree is ambiguous. Yet the position of fahd was honoured despite not being a scholar because thier position is to influence people decision . So if you want to learn history or scholarly information ...meet the right people for that.

can you provide reference for this?.

Sheikh adam will better face islamic scholar or simply a student of islamic studies rather than engaging a monarchy. Even alfa agaba (taju adabi) will not be be able to face the nitty gritty discussion of islamic studies discussed in classrom today.

sheikh Adam already talked about history of Islam in Yorubaland and Nigeria general. He made no significant reference to what Oni said.

Religion come from the latin word relegare(meaning to bind ) which means adam religion is basically binding by submitting to the will of allah. So if you say adam religion was islam, then you MUST say he was the first Muslim AFTER he was the first pagan and the first Jew, and the first Christian because the Muslim religion came AFTER pagan , Jewish and Christian faiths.

you just sounded like Oni. You confused yourself. Submmision means Islam. Very simple. But to worship something else is not submmision which means to ébó as they do it in Yorubaland and anywhere is it done is opposite of what Adam believed.

Therefore, the so called "ìsésé" is nothing but Yoruba mythology. Yoruba might had Islam but they distorted the religion of their prophet. Reason for this is because Quran says that God sent prophets and messanger to every nation on Earth but their messages were distorted just like Christianity until prophet muhammad(saw) was sent to rectify them.

Empiree:
isten, this is not tolerance. If he wanted to preach tolerance, that's a different subject. You don't preach tolerance by making up history that was not there. Islam has nothing to do with obatala, oduduwa etc. Those are Yorubaland mythology. Oni preached religion not tolerance

No where from that video you posted oni ever talk against islam or Christianity, he rather solidify it by making it look like indigenous religious. Which i earlier agree that it is sophistry. The idea is to spread unity and nnot division. It is part of his duty to unify his subjects regardless of religious background.

can you provide reference for this?.

check the front page of your Quran translation and read the acknowledgement notice or better still check the publication company of your quran.

sheikh Adam already talked about history of Islam in Yorubaland and Nigeria general. He made no significant reference to what Oni said.

No any academic decipline will ever have a copy of adam ilori in its chamber as a reference backup

..in an academic cycle adam ilori is not a schloar. I have read his opinion on how islam enter yoruba land. It is basically faulty.and rooted in false assumption.

you just sounded like Oni. You confused yourself. Submmision means Islam. Very simple. But to worship something else is not submmision which means to ébó as they do it in Yorubaland and anywhere is it done is opposite of what Adam believed.

So you don't even know Islam is the monotheistic political version of Arab paganism? What is shukro, what is ibaadah? When you get this . analysed it.

Therefore, the so called "ìsésé" is nothing but Yoruba mythology. Yoruba might had Islam but they distorted the religion of their prophet. Reason for this is because Quran says that God sent prophets and messanger to every nation on Earth but their messages were distorted just like Christianity until prophet muhammad(saw) was sent to rectify them.

Yes isese is Yoruba mythology and it is totally diffrence from arab myth as well.

So because muhammed said 1240000 prophet existed and were sent across all nation you believe it withhout any external evidence. Welldone . What if shango is a prophet? Or do you have evidence to rebuked it. Perhapbs you have hadith to rebuked it.

wirinet:


You got your tree wrong. The fruit of the tree Adam and Eve ate was from the tree of knowledge and not the tree of life. After Adam and Eve eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge and acquired knowledge the Hebrew God had to guard the tree of life with 2 cherubs holding flaming swords to prevent them from eating from its fruit, else man would have become immortal .

So God never wanted man to be immortal?

vaxx:
No where from that video you posted oni ever talk against islam or Christianity, he rather solidify it by making it look like indigenous religious. Which i earlier agree that it is sophistry. The idea is to spread unity and nnot division. It is part of his duty to unify his subjects regardless of religious background.

bro, why is it difficult for you to understand my point?. Religious differences are separate from tolerance. What your are saying is to combine religions is what you defined as "tolerance". That's not the definition of tolerance in Islam. You practice your religion and I practice mine. But when it comes to activities that binds is as human we can work together. Quran reaches us "to you is your religion, to us is our religion"

check the front page of your Quran translation and read the acknowledgement notice or better still check the publication company of your quran.

I don't know what you talking about. You can as well keep it simple by posting screenshot

No any academic decipline will ever have a copy of adam ilori in its chamber as a reference backup

what's your religion?

..in an academic cycle adam ilori is not a schloar. I have read his opinion on how islam enter yoruba land. It is basically faulty.and rooted in false assumption.

you are too young to come up with this nonsense. From your responses does that you agree with Oni which means that, just as Oni doesn't know what he was saying, you too have no idea what you are saying. Sheikh Adam Abdullah Al-ilory was a scholar. You can't challenge that.
https://www.nairaland.com/2042359/shaykh-adam-abdullah-al-ilory

So you don't even know Islam is the monotheistic political version of Arab paganism? What is shukro, what is ibaadah? When you get this . analysed it

I guess you wanna teach me something?. Well, shukroh(Thanks). Ibadaah(worship).

Yes isese is Yoruba mythology and it is totally diffrence from arab myth as well.

Then Oni should keep his mythological story to Yoruba religion. Islam has nothing to do with it.

So because muhammed said 1240000 prophet existed and were sent across all nation you believe it withhout any external evidence. Welldone . What if shango is a prophet? Or do you have evidence to rebuked it. Perhapbs you have hadith to rebuked it.

Yoruba only have oral traditions. But we have oral and written. So 124k sent was documented. Yoruba can not prove their deities.

Empiree:
bro, why is it difficult for you to understand my point?. Religious differences are separate from tolerance. What your are saying is to combine religions is what you defined as "tolerance". That's not the definition of tolerance in Islam. You practice your religion and I practice mine. But when it comes to activities that binds is as human we can work together. Quran reaches us "to you is your religion, to us is our religion"

it is not what Islam says, it is about what oni says and the rational behind it. Oni is not a scholar just like king fahd isn't one.

I don't know what you talking about. You can as well keep it simple by posting screenshot

i am saying one of the most popular Qurans in print has King Fahd authorization. For example, The king fahd edition was printed in Medina in 1405 Hijri (1984-1985) with millions of copies distributed throughout the world.

It carries the inscription: “A gift from the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Fahd Ibn Abdul Aziz for the spreading of Allah’s Word.” confirm my source.

what's your religion?

I am a proud pagan.



;

D you are too young to come up with this nonsense. From your responses does that you agree with Oni which means that, just as Oni doesn't know what he was saying, you too have no idea what you are saying. Sheikh Adam Abdullah Al-ilory was a scholar. You can't challenge that.
https://www.nairaland.com/2042359/shaykh-adam-abdullah-al-ilory

ok let see who is spewing nonsense. Provide me a copy of his work that had established stamp from al hazar university or simply provide me one of his work that can be found in unilorin religious department(he is from ilorin that should not be too far ). I just challenge it. None of his work can be study in any academic discipline. His work belongs to omo Ile kewu category or better still marikasi.

guess you wanna teach me something?. Well, shukroh(Thanks). Ibadaah(worship)

i am giving you the plural form of shirk(idolatry) A typo error there.
And i want you to analysed it from worshiped. What i want you to cover is simply the act..

Then Oni should keep his mythological story to Yoruba religion. Islam has nothing to do with it.

it is the duty of oni to promote peace while establishing the importance of Yoruba ancestral worship. It is your duty to know the truth if you so wish.
Even in islam, when there is conflict between two individual. They are restrictions to setttle the conflict as a third party for example, you can't explain in details where both of them attack each other negatively to avoild futher crisis. Your mission is to promote peace even if some fact will be covered to do so.

Empiree:




Yoruba only have oral traditions. But we have oral and written. So 124k sent was documented. Yoruba can not prove their deities.

if you need a first hand evidence.......go straight to ife....it is not hidden. ...


Documenting it does not solidify it.

vaxx:
if you need a first hand evidence.......go straight to ife....it is not hidden. ...


Documenting it does not solidify it.

no fossil and scientific evidence in ile-ife

vaxx:
it is not what Islam says, it is about what oni says and the rational behind it. Oni is not a scholar just like king fahd isn't one.

smh. Who is On I next to Islam?. Islam was documented. You should have provided written evidence like revealed holy book well known to Yoruba people. And why only this current Oni making this statements?. Did former Oni made similar claim?. As you can see, many people were shocked to hear his utterances because no Oni of Ife never made such claims.

i am saying one of the most popular Qurans in print has King Fahd authorization. For example, The king fahd edition was printed in Medina in 1405 Hijri (1984-1985) with millions of copies distributed throughout the world.

It carries the inscription: “A gift from the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Fahd Ibn Abdul Aziz for the spreading of Allah’s Word.” confirm my source.

what's this about?. He only printed and distributed copies. So?.

I am a proud pagan

I see. That's why you trying hard to defend your Oni. You better leave that religion. Yoruba people were the ones who distorted Islam in Yorubaland. All those things you called odua, obatala, oranmiyan were probably righteous men that you people raised their level to demigods. Or they were woods made by men and laid claim of deities to them.

;ok let see who is spewing nonsense. Provide me a copy of his work that had established stamp from al hazar university or simply provide me one of his work that can be found in unilorin religious department(he is from ilorin that should not be too far ). I just challenge it. None of his work can be study in any academic discipline. His work belongs to omo Ile kewu category or better still marikasi.

You are speaking within your level of thinking faculty. You obviously don't know sheikh Adam

i am giving you the plural form of shirk(idolatry) A typo error there.
And i want you to analysed it from worshiped. What i want you to cover is simply the act..

you need to explain yourself better good I'm not quite understanding you here.

it is the duty of oni to promote peace while establishing the importance of Yoruba ancestral worship. It is your duty to know the truth if you so wish.
Even in islam, when there is conflict between two individual. They are restrictions to setttle the conflict as a third party for example, you can't explain in details where both of them attack each other negatively to avoild futher crisis. Your mission is to promote peace even if some fact will be covered to do so.

peace, unity, tolerance are one thing on the side. Religion it's another thing on the side. Oni is mixing religions on false premises and faulty historical links. Mixing religions is not about peace. I'm good short clip that went viral, he didn't say anything about peace. He is promoting unification of religion on false historical links

Empiree:
no fossil and scientific evidence in ile-ife

i am not ready to acknowledge that isalmic shaadah trademark on my profile (may change later), so i am not going to honour your invitation to islamic section.. But if you want to know much about Yoruba ATR. I have made a little contribution here on nairaland. Go thru my profile..


In shakespare, do we have fossils and scienctifc details of Romeo and Juliet? But there is a good historical and social record that the family existed and still continue till date. ., the Montagues & the Capulets family were real, & they did zealously fight on the streets of Verona


If you want to know much about Yoruba deities today. Go straight to ile ife. Some family are direct son and daughter of ORUNMILA...... (meaning ORUNMILA happen to be their great parent ) they are there till today to give you evidence. If you want to know about sango. Ask oba lamidi of oyo Ile. (Is direct great parent)They will give you first hand information.

Apart from that, there are few research that is back up by radiocarbon dating in Ile ife today. At least.

I am aware of the oranmiyan rod. Nigeria herself is lacking in this area and hence make this kind of research more difficult.

As for quran. It has no scientific backup. All what muhammed claim cannot be proven. science cannot even process if Quranic knowledge is real or not since its not objective in nature.

Empiree:
smh. Who is On I next to Islam?. Islam was documented. You should have provided written evidence like revealed holy book well known to Yoruba people. And why only this current Oni making this statements?. Did former Oni made similar claim?. As you can see, many people were shocked to hear his utterances because no Oni of Ife never made such claims.

You ask who is oni. Oni is the arole of oduduwa (He symbolised oduduwa on earth, his fore father were the Oracle eye of oduduwa during oduduwa reign) Islam was documented after the demise of Muhammad (i.e)the hadith which is roughly 200 years....while quran itself was documented within the 23 years of Muhammad ministry. Abu bakr compiled them. Being documented does not make it true. It just show the progress of civilization in the Arab word. Arabs have developed a well writing system by then. Yoruba did not have one as at that time but have a robust system that can be trust. Most babalawo learn very hard by memorization and at the same time from the use of symbols and signs.it is well praticed among them till date.

ATR is not providing evidence, ATR is not looking for converts but tolerance. ATR is Nature-oriented and appeals to those who love the Earth and want to preserve it. It is about what you have upstairs. it is a DIY religion, that is, a “do it yourself” religion where you are able to work out your own beliefs and what makes sense to you. So you will not find it in a book.

what's this about?. He only printed and distributed copies. So?.

He authorised it despite not having the knowledge. I am sure you are not aware of many quran translations error. Go do the findings.


I

see. That's why you trying hard to defend your Oni. You better leave that religion. Yoruba people were the ones who distorted Islam in Yorubaland. All those things you called odua, obatala, oranmiyan were probably righteous men that you people raised their level to demigods. Or they were woods made by men and laid claim of deities to them.

lol. I am not a novice.... They are called orisha in Yoruba. Orisha means (ori-ti -a-sha ) The head we specifically selected . They are human like me and you. Nothing make them demi. Except you bro and it is due to ignorance. Go thru my thread. I have written many stuff on this . Oni is not defended but appreciated. I have explain the rationality behind his motive for giving such sophistry. And this idea is not peculiar to him too as it is found in Islam as well

You are speaking within your level of thinking faculty. You obviously don't know sheikh Adam

I ask you for an evidence, didn't I? Let's see. I see you have been trainned to accept motor mechanic as the same as mechanic engineering ....

you need to explain yourself better good I'm not quite understanding you here.

I mean shiruku and ibaadah. What is the diffrence between this act. When you answer it. draw the line of reasoning by yourself. I don't feel the urge to expose the paganism nature of islam myself.i want you to do that.

peace, unity, tolerance are one thing on the side. Religion it's another thing on the side. Oni is mixing religions on false premises and faulty historical links. Mixing religions is not about peace. I'm good short clip that went viral, he didn't say anything about peace. He is promoting unification of religion on false historical links

You rased similar veiw upward, oni puporse is to foster unity among his subject while advocating for isese. It is only when you begin to appreciate my ideology that my way of life we begin to make sense to you. Oni is actually promoting that.

I have repeated it many times that oni is not an historian nor a scholar.. oni purpose is to influence majority decision and is doing that perfectly well. If you want to know how well about this history. Go visit a library or better still consult an historian not oni.

vaxx:
You ask who is oni. Oni is the arole of oduduwa (He symbolised oduduwa on earth, his fore father were the Oracle eye of oduduwa during oduduwa reign)

You dont get it. Remember we all learned this in school. What you are saying is not new to me. But I am asking you for documented reference like revealed Holy Book to Oduduwa etc. I have come to realization that this story dont have authenticity. But look at what God says in the Quran about first creation with proof


And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth." They said: "Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, - while we glorify You with praises and thanks (Exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners) and sanctify You." He (Allah) said: "I know that which you do not know." [2:30]


See how i cited sacred reference. Where is yours to prove Oduduwa appointed Oni as "arole" on earth?. Are you even saying Oduduwa is God or what?. When did Oduduwa come to existence?

Islam was documented after the demise of Muhammad (i.e)the hadith which is roughly 200 years....while quran itself was documented within the 23 years of Muhammad ministry. Abu bakr compiled them. Being documented does not make it true. It just show the progress of civilization in the Arab word. Arabs have developed a well writing system by then. Yoruba did not have one as at that time but have a robust system that can be trust. Most babalawo learn very hard by memorization and at the same time from the use of symbols and signs.it is well praticed among them till date.

See the other thread where i quoted you?. You should read where the brother said there should have been documented evidence of yoruba religion. We learned about all these things you are saying when we were young. Out of respect for your belief, i wont deny you but, yoruba claims are not substantiated. Interestingly, there is one Alfa who said in his lecture that your Odu Ifa pointed to advent of islamic prophet, just like we see references of prophet Muhammad(saw) in Torah, Gospel, Hindu Book and other religious literature. Thats how we convince them to come to islam. But since you have no written evidence of yoruba religion but only rely on oral tradition, Alfa said your Odu Ifa pointed to Muhammad(saw) according to one of your Alawo. Not long after that, babalawo embraced islam.

He authorised it despite not having the knowledge. I am sure you are not aware of many quran translations error. Go do the findings.

You made allegation and you must provide evidence. I have been studying Quran for far too long.

I lol. I am not a novice.... They are called orisha in Yoruba. Orisha means (ori-ti -a-sha ) The head we specifically selected . They are human like me and you. Nothing make them demi. Except you bro and it is due to ignorance. Go thru my thread. I have written many stuff on this . Oni is not defended but appreciated. I have explain the rationality behind his motive for giving such sophistry. And this idea is not peculiar to him too as it is found in Islam as well

Again, i am not denying they are human being. But you have made them object of worship, period. We dont accept that. It doesnt matter how you try to pain it. Yoruba have made them deities besides God. This is contrary to our fundamental belief. So islam and yoruba religion are opposite. Oni can not deceptively merge islam and yoruba religion. ko se se (not possible)

I ask you for an evidence, didn't I? Let's see. I see you have been trainned to accept motor mechanic as the same as mechanic engineering ....

I directed you to a thread i created. I am sure you didnt read. There are things to learn from there. And i am sure you can find materials online to learn from. Plus bunch of lectures of Sheikh Adam(ra) you can learn from.

I mean shiruku and ibaadah. What is the diffrence between this act. When you answer it. draw the line of reasoning by yourself. I don't feel the urge to expose the paganism nature of islam myself.i want you to do that.

Oh, you spelt it wrong. It is called Shirk(associating partners with One God) which you are involved in and all those Oba and all forms of ebo you do in ile yoruba. One example is you said oduduwa sent Oni to be his arole on earth. So who is Oduduwa and where is he?. Did Oduduwa create the world?. Is Oduduwa human being like you and I?. Ibadah means worship. Act of worship was specifically described in islam which you see muslims do everyday. If you do contrary to that is called Shirk that you asked me to differentiate from Ibadah.

You rased similar veiw upward, oni puporse is to foster unity among his subject while advocating for isese.

This is the point. Isese in yorubaland is ebo(shirk). We will never compromise. You need to leave isese. There is nothing like that. Did you watch Oba Rasheed who refuted Oni on isese?. But when it comes to human and current affairs, we can work together regardless of our religious affiliation for the good of our community to live in peace and harmony with ourselves. But when it comes to Ibadah(worship), we will never agree. We will never worship together. This is what i meant when i said "to you is your religion and to us is our religion"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHuJW7vnwGE

I have repeated it many times that oni is not an historian nor a scholar.. oni purpose is to influence majority decision and is doing that perfectly well. If you want to know how well about this history. Go visit a library or better still consult an historian not oni.

Lol, you admitted Oni is not historian nor a scholar, therefore, he should be the one to visit library. If he was good enough, he should have contacted muslim scholars in Yorubaland before he came out in public to make such ridiculous about islamic history.

MuttleyLaff:
The serpent was punished for what it did and/or didn't do

Yes, when satan entered the serpent, it had options it didnt take

Correct, GOD did implement a change on the anatomy and physiology of the serpent at that moment
Few know this, even Adam and Eve had an anatomy change as well.

Animals have feelings, the serpent wasnt an exception to this

"Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made."
- Genesis 3:1a

If you read Genesis 3:1a carefully, the word "subtil" in that verse, has the meaning of having or showing sharp powers of judgement
or having or showing an ability to accurately assess situations or people and turn this to one's advantage

I earlier said the serpent should have know better,
as the serpent was not just at the top end of the pecking order
and not thick or dumb but was as a matter of fact intelligent, as well

The serpent's antithesis, its demotion, its fall from grace to literally grass and eventual extinction are an indictment



[img]https://s1/images/MuttWipesHandSmile.gif[/img]
johnnnnnydon!

Do Adam and Eve existed as real human beings? Can you tell us the color of their skin and the name of the language they spoke?

Empiree:
You dont get it. Remember we all learned this in school. What you are saying is not new to me. But I am asking you for documented reference like revealed Holy Book to Oduduwa etc. I have come to realization that this story dont have authenticity. But look at what God says in the Quran about first creation with proof

if you are aware we learn it from school, why are you asking for documented evidence then?. Consult your school text book to have one. Isese is not limited to human writing. Isese holds ancient value that predate both Islam and Christianity , we don't have one useless book to argue over, we let nature inspire us. Oduduwa does not claim prophethood, so what does he going to do with the holy book . Muhammed himself cannot verified his own source. What is the external evidence that what is written or find in quran is a fact? It is just belived that rested on nothingness like that of Vedas of Hindus or bible of the christain. There is no objective theological way to test the evidence in the documented quran. ATR is about giving you value thru the nature. You can find evidence yourself if you so wish.

See how i cited sacred reference. Where is yours to prove Oduduwa appointed Oni as "arole" on earth?. Are you even saying Oduduwa is God or what?. When did Oduduwa come to existence?

You cited a bogus reference that cannot be objectively verified if it is true., I will give you information that was passed down thru memorization but has physical evidence to hold on. The lingua meaning of oni is (oni ri orisha ) the one who see orisa, oni fore father was an ABORE( chief priest ) not oduduwa direct son. He was just fortunate to own oduduwa crown ( their are historical background to this). If you want first hand information , visit ife during olojo festival, oni wear a particular crown called ade are(oduduwa personal crown) It only used by oni thru out Yoruba race. The essence is to justify the importance of oni and the throne in Yoruba land.

See the other thread where i quoted you?. You should read where the brother said there should have been documented evidence of yoruba religion. We learned about all these things you are saying when we were young. Out of respect for your belief, i wont deny you but, yoruba claims are not substantiated. Interestingly, there is one Alfa who said in his lecture that your Odu Ifa pointed to advent of islamic prophet, just like we see references of prophet Muhammad(saw) in Torah, Gospel, Hindu Book and other religious literature. Thats how we convince them to come to islam. But since you have no written evidence of yoruba religion but only rely on oral tradition, Alfa said your Odu Ifa pointed to Muhammad(saw) according to one of your Alawo. Not long after that, babalawo embraced islam.

lol....alfa has no authority on the subject, isese is unstructured religion .There are more than 7,000 languages in the world, as listed at Ethnologue.
Each of those languages has been a defining mark of at least one culture in which Yoruba is part and nearly all of those cultures have their own religion.

Fewer than a hundred languages have a really active written culture. It is not peculiar to Yoruba tradition only.

Like i said having your written documented those not validate your religion.... and the babalawo accepting Islam is not a well substantiate evidence. Even many alfa are practically babalawo. Many alfa are even embracing Christianity.....


Odu ifa predate islamic prophet or even Jesus. There are scientific evidence for that.... if you must know , check and confirm when Ile ife was established (the expansive land).

You made allegation and you must provide evidence. I have been studying Quran for far too long.

As someone who has studied the quran and islam and it is still on it till present ., I would say there are just too many to count. Yet for every error you find, there are always brainwashed followers who will use the following arguments; 1) you don’t know what you’re talking about; you just got that from some islamophobic site! or 2) Well, if you read the actual Arabic, that’s not what the qur’an really says. But if you must know. These are just two examples among the numerous. According to Quran 51:49 and Quran 36:36, all creatures are created in pairs, but viruses, bacteria, Mexican whiptail lizard, and several other creatures are asexual and do not mate or have a couple. Confirm my source.

Again, i am not denying they are human being. But you have made them object of worship, period. We dont accept that. It doesnt matter how you try to pain it. Yoruba have made them deities besides God. This is contrary to our fundamental belief. So islam and yoruba religion are opposite. Oni can not deceptively merge islam and yoruba religion. ko se se (not possible)

No one has make orisha an object of worshiped it is ignorance to say so. Yoruba belief exist long ago before muhamedanism, therefore should be different from arab myth. I repeat It again. it is the duty of oni to foster unity among his subjects. Oni is sophistically treating all religion as one just like how our politicians are treating us as one people. When in actuality we are of different background. ( but this techniques has foster unity among us)despite it been false. It is also find in islam, i have earlier refer you to it.

I directed you to a thread i created. I am sure you didnt read. There are things to learn from there. And i am sure you can find materials online to learn from. Plus bunch of lectures of Sheikh Adam(ra) you can learn from.

I said you should stop treating road side mechanics as the same as mechanic engineering. I am aware of adam al ilori myself. Bunch of Ile kewu graduate.

Oh, you spelt it wrong. It is called Shirk(associating partners with One God) which you are involved in and all those Oba and all forms of ebo you do in ile yoruba. One example is you said oduduwa sent Oni to be his arole on earth. So who is Oduduwa and where is he?. Did Oduduwa create the world?. Is Oduduwa human being like you and I?. Ibadah means worship. Act of worship was specifically described in islam which you see muslims do everyday. If you do contrary to that is called Shirk that you asked me to differentiate from Ibadah.

Go thru my thread. I have answer this similar question. This is why I use to say black muslims suffer from deep mental-slavery. They often try to condemn African spirituality as "idol worship." And When we say that our religious sculptures are just symbolic focal points, and not God himself, the muslims act stupid like they can't understand this, yet they do the same thing but with a building and not a sculpture.

When muslims worship, they bow and kneel to a mosque in the direction of the kaaba in Mecca. To any onlooker, they are worshipping the mosque building and the kaaba of Mecca.

But that would sound foolish to the muslims right because they know that the building is just a visual symbolic focal point not an object of worship.

Yet, hypocritically, you don't recognize the same logic in other religions that are doing the same symbolic thing but just with sculpture instead of bowing to a building.

This is the point. Isese in yorubaland is ebo(shirk). We will never compromise. You need to leave isese. There is nothing like that. Did you watch Oba Rasheed who refuted Oni on isese?. But when it comes to human and current affairs, we can work together regardless of our religious affiliation for the good of our community to live in peace and harmony with ourselves. But when it comes to Ibadah(worship), we will never agree. We will never worship together. This is what i meant when i said "to you is your religion and to us is our religion"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHuJW7vnwGE

You want me to take you and your clown king seriously. I am well versed in this topic than him.(sorry if that denote pride but that is the truth )he even lack the requirement in the first place, so his sophistry cannot influence me. . Iwo is a suburb of Yoruba land not the entirety of Yoruba kingdom.

We like to tell you about iwo but i don't see a need for that in this topic.

Lol, you admitted Oni is not historian nor a scholar, therefore, he should be the one to visit library. If he was good enough, he should have contacted muslim scholars in Yorubaland before he came out in public to make such ridiculous about islamic history

i have admitted this since .he is not an historian just like king fahd that authorized quran is not a scholar.

Oni roles is not to preach but to influence . I have repeat this times without number.

frank317:


To test their willful obedience to Gods commandment? Was this sort of an experiment for God? Adam and eve were God's test rats... He he

Now that he has seen the result, I hope he us happy.

Lol, I wonder if the so called almighty God doesn't know the results beforehand.

He must be bored.

Empiree:
Yoruba muslims and Christians must take not of this fake king, especially muslims. Islam has nothing to do with Yoruba religion.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjFuRQhb48k


Read video discriptions

Lol, battle of the fictions.

Muslims said Islam is the Religion of God and the world, Christians, Jews said same thing, now that Oni of Ife said Yoruba Religion is the birth of Islam and Christianity, he's lying.

Ofcos he's lying, Islam is an Arabia Religion founded by an Arab man that lived in middle age deserted area.

@johnydon22, lol!!! This is sooooooooooo funny!!!

CAPSLOCKED:


BECAUSE LIVING IS TOO DIFFICULT.
JESUS HAD TO DO EVERYTHING WITHIN HIS MIGHT TO ESCAPE THIS EARTH ON TIME.
I'M SURE IF HE HAD BEEN BORN IN THIS PRESENT DAY NIGERIA HE WOULD HAVE DISAPPEARED BEFORE HIS 4TH BIRTHDAY.

Hahaha
Bros ur duplex for hell fire dey wait you

Like seriously speaking all these stories nor dey add up at all but wetin you want make we talk

DoctorAlien:
I copied and pasted and credited the source. Hardly a crime.

Your opinion. Not backed by any facts.
Your opinion again
But the harmonization of the alleged contradictions was what you read. Or didn't you read it?
Very credible. The stories were told by witnesses to them, namely the apostles
You mean nothing I answer will appeal to you? Don't worry. You didn't break my heart.
I agree. Men who were wise enough to surrender to GOD to be used by Him. I've been kissing the truth since

There many facts backing it up bro. I am not here to convince you however. Most stories in the Bible were copied from Epic of Gilgamesh, Avesta etc. Nothing special about the Bible..
Oral tradition is not 100% accurate in script writing as a result of variations in human response.
See the God of the Bible doesn't exist...

[s]

Omooba224:

There many facts backing it up bro. I am not here to convince you however. Most stories in the Bible were copied from Epic of Gilgamesh, Avesta etc. Nothing special about the Bible..
Oral tradition is not 100% accurate in script writing as a result of variations in human response.
See the God of the Bible doesn't exist...

[/s]

Trash!

DoctorAlien:
[s][/s]

Trash!

Lol! The moment you start to have manners the time you will have the true picture of the world. Shalom!

Omooba224:
Lol! The moment you start to have manners the time you will have the true picture of the world. Shalom!

But I'm very sure that the true picture of the world is not the one you have.

hahn:
Seriously though, God no get sense sha

Hmm it would have been better you said the story wasn't true than saying the later.

Princewell2012:


Hmm it would have been better you said the story wasn't true than saying the later.

No it wouldn't. If god is real the depictions of it in the bible and quran make it out to be an insecure psychopathic dunce

hahn:


No it wouldn't. If god is real the depictions of it in the bible and quran make it out to be an insecure psychopathic dunce

If God isn't real this earth would have been crashed long ago. The earth was perfectly created and with orderliness, but it was only the story about the person of God that was misunderstood, hence both of us always comes to religion section on nairaland asking about him and attacking each other.

Man don't know God 100% we only know a little aabout him. So we are always curious to know him. Why some get confused and say he does not exist.

Anyone who have ever encountered God before will never deny him. It was in my curiosity to know more about him that makes me to began to read quran. Maybe that's how God made it to be.
But if you search for him with all your heart and without arrogancy in your heart. He will manifest himself to you.

Oh I have really missed religion section for a while. It used to be my favorite place.

Princewell2012:


If God isn't real this earth would have been crashed long ago. The earth was perfectly created and with orderliness, but it was only the story about the person of God that was misunderstood, hence both of us always comes to religion section on nairaland asking about him and attacking each other.

Man don't know God 100% we only know a little aabout him. So we are always curious to know him. Why some get confused and say he does not exist.

Anyone who have ever encountered God before will never deny him. It was in my curiosity to know more about him that makes me to began to read quran. Maybe that's how God made it to be.
But if you search for him with all your heart and without arrogancy in your heart. He will manifest himself to you.

Oh I have really missed religion section for a while. It used to be my favorite place.

Lol

vaxx:
if you are aware we learn it from school, why are you asking for documented evidence then?. Consult your school text book to have one. Isese is not limited to human writing. Isese holds ancient value that predate both Islam and Christianity , we don't have one useless book to argue over, we let nature inspire us. Oduduwa does not claim prophethood, so what does he going to do with the holy book . Muhammed himself cannot verified his own source. What is the external evidence that what is written or find in quran is a fact? It is just belived that rested on nothingness like that of Vedas of Hindus or bible of the christain. There is no objective theological way to test the evidence in the documented quran. ATR is about giving you value thru the nature. You can find evidence yourself if you so wish.


You cited a bogus reference that cannot be objectively verified if it is true., I will give you information that was passed down thru memorization but has physical evidence to hold on. The lingua meaning of oni is (oni ri orisha ) the one who see orisa, oni fore father was an ABORE( chief priest ) not oduduwa direct son. He was just fortunate to own oduduwa crown ( their are historical background to this). If you want first hand information , visit ife during olojo festival, oni wear a particular crown called ade are(oduduwa personal crown) It only used by oni thru out Yoruba race. The essence is to justify the importance of oni and the throne in Yoruba land.


lol....alfa has no authority on the subject, isese is unstructured religion .There are more than 7,000 languages in the world, as listed at Ethnologue.
Each of those languages has been a defining mark of at least one culture in which Yoruba is part and nearly all of those cultures have their own religion.

Fewer than a hundred languages have a really active written culture. It is not peculiar to Yoruba tradition only.

Like i said having your written documented those not validate your religion.... and the babalawo accepting Islam is not a well substantiate evidence. Even many alfa are practically babalawo. Many alfa are even embracing Christianity.....


Odu ifa predate islamic prophet or even Jesus. There are scientific evidence for that.... if you must know , check and confirm when Ile ife was established (the expansive land).





As someone who has studied the quran and islam and it is still on it till present ., I would say there are just too many to count. Yet for every error you find, there are always brainwashed followers who will use the following arguments; 1) you don’t know what you’re talking about; you just got that from some islamophobic site! or 2) Well, if you read the actual Arabic, that’s not what the qur’an really says. But if you must know. These are just two examples among the numerous. According to Quran 51:49 and Quran 36:36, all creatures are created in pairs, but viruses, bacteria, Mexican whiptail lizard, and several other creatures are asexual and do not mate or have a couple. Confirm my source.




No one has make orisha an object of worshiped it is ignorance to say so. Yoruba belief exist long ago before muhamedanism, therefore should be different from arab myth. I repeat It again. it is the duty of oni to foster unity among his subjects. Oni is sophistically treating all religion as one just like how our politicians are treating us as one people. When in actuality we are of different background. ( but this techniques has foster unity among us)despite it been false. It is also find in islam, i have earlier refer you to it.


I said you should stop treating road side mechanics as the same as mechanic engineering. I am aware of adam al ilori myself. Bunch of Ile kewu graduate.



Go thru my thread. I have answer this similar question. This is why I use to say black muslims suffer from deep mental-slavery. They often try to condemn African spirituality as "idol worship." And When we say that our religious sculptures are just symbolic focal points, and not God himself, the muslims act stupid like they can't understand this, yet they do the same thing but with a building and not a sculpture.

When muslims worship, they bow and kneel to a mosque in the direction of the kaaba in Mecca. To any onlooker, they are worshipping the mosque building and the kaaba of Mecca.

But that would sound foolish to the muslims right because they know that the building is just a visual symbolic focal point not an object of worship.

Yet, hypocritically, you don't recognize the same logic in other religions that are doing the same symbolic thing but just with sculpture instead of bowing to a building.

You want me to take you and your clown king seriously. I am well versed in this topic than him.(sorry if that denote pride but that is the truth )he even lack the requirement in the first place, so his sophistry cannot influence me. . Iwo is a suburb of Yoruba land not the entirety of Yoruba kingdom.

We like to tell you about iwo but i don't see a need for that in this topic.



i have admitted this since .he is not an historian just like king fahd that authorized quran is not a scholar.

Oni roles is not to preach but to influence . I have repeat this times without number.

when you have time watch this response to Oni


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3sItKTs35A&t=3559s

Empiree:
when you have time watch this response to Oni


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3sItKTs35A&t=3559s

I have repeated it overtime that oni is not an historian or babalawo that will be versed in the knowledge of Ifa.

Oni ogunwusi is a leader and leaders are known for their use of sophistry to influence their subject.

Ifa is the only template that answer that question
perfectly..


Regarding the objection raised by the ustaz, I can also play the same similar game with Islam. I can ask if the same Islam of muhammed is still the same as of today. They are so many evidence that go against it.

Anyway, I am not gonna do that , I will rather enlight you and the ustaz on the subject of Ifa.

Pls try and show the ustaz this thread.


https://www.nairaland.com/4680091/traditions-great-isese-dara-pupo

vaxx:
I have repeated it overtime that oni is not an historian or babalawo that will be versed in the knowledge of Ifa.

Oni ogunwusi is a leader and leaders are known for their use of sophistry to influence their subject.

Ifa is the only template that answer that question
perfectly..


Regarding the objection raised by the ustaz, I can also play the same similar game with Islam. If the same Islam of muhammed is still the same as of today. They are so many evidence that go against it.

Anyway, I am not gonna do that , I will rather enlight you and the ustaz on the subject of Ifa.

Pls try and show the ustaz this thread.


https://www.nairaland.com/4680091/traditions-great-isese-dara-pupo

No, you should ask. And the answer is, prophet Muhammad was one then and the same person now. His message is one till now. Any questionable messages attributed to him will have to be weigned with Quran. But you failed to see what Alfa is saying regarding isese. As for Ifa aspect, if Ooni is not historian nor babalawo, then, he is simply wrong to come out publicly and made obnoxious statements that even fellow Obas disagree with. Going through your thread now. I am sure you aren't saying anything new . Eleribu ni awon oyinbo yen. Won pa itan ki tan fun wa