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Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion - Religion (1) - Nairaland

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Irunmale And Orisa / Pastors & Imams Come To Consult Ifa – Ifayemi Elebuibon / Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? (1) (2) (3) (4)

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Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by Kuns: 7:14pm On Jul 18, 2007
A Yoruba proverb says we become who we are by standing on the shoulders of those who come before us.

From the perspective of traditional Yoruba culture, remembering those who come before us is a sacred obligation. Each generation takes responsibility for passing foreword the wisdom of the past. In most earth-centered cultures, meaning those cultures that make an effort to live in harmony with nature, dissemination of ancestral wisdom is the foundation of the methodology used to guide children along the path leading to maturity and self-understanding. In psychological terms, modeling heroic behavior initiates the journey towards self-discovery and individualization.

The effective completion of this journey carries the possibility of making each one of us a revered ancestor in the collective memory of our descendants.

This potential is reflected in the bond of between grandparents and grandchildren. In Yoruba this bond is called ife, which is commonly translated to mean love. I suspect the word has a broader connotation related to the word ifa.

If ifa means the wisdom inherent in Nature, the word ife suggests the expression of that wisdom in everyday life. Ifa teaches that everyone is born a good and blessed person (omo rere). As elders we make sure our dependants internalize this message so it continues to inform future generations.

Colonialization of Africa was based on deliberate four-step process of convert, corrupt, conquer and control. The vanguard of European imperialism was the Christian missionary movement. Explorers like Dr. Livingston and the Jesuits mapped remote regions of the African continent setting up trading ports and churches along their route.

The task of these early clerics was to study the language and beliefs of previously unknown cultures. This was followed by the creation of dictionaries used to translate the Bible into local dialects. Further leading the people off the path.

To say Obatala spread sand on the surface of the earth is to describe the cooling process of light particles formed into a sphere by gravity. The cooling of particles fused together during the explosion of a super-nova creates what we call the "material" world or "aye" in Yoruba. This is the same teachings taught thousand of years, and millions of years before the yorubas by the Ancient Tamareans (falsely called Egyptians by people of other races). Here obatala represents the total combination of All existing gases, chemicals and element in and through nature, as there can be nothing more potent than the combination of All existing gases, chemicals and elements and formulars in nature. This is refered to a 9 ether gas , the ancients ones taught that we tamareans, Nuwbuns, Nubians today called Yoruba, Igbo, Hausa etc, etc are the manifestation of those 9 ether forces that created the boundless universes, in the flesh, these nine ether beings manifestation as Black, brown, black - blue with woolly hair and thick lips and a broad nose. This was millions of years before the Hindus came to the planet.

This is why we have hair that curls like the expression 9 to the 9th power of 9 or hair like woolly. People of other races have hair that curls like the expression 6 to the 6th power of 6. Hair that is similar t to furs , or what animals have. This makes us a god (GOD), just like our great yoruba ancestors Shango, Obatala, Ogun etc, etc and those who birth them the Neturu who also birthed the Annunaki (meaning those who Annu sent from sahu/Orun/Oranus/Orion translated to heaven in English Job 9 : 9; Job 38 : 31).
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by denex: 10:25pm On Jul 18, 2007
@mr ferlie

what have you and your father the If Priest practiced and where is his shrine located?
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by mrferlie(m): 4:04am On Jul 19, 2007
denex:

@mr ferlie

what have you and your father the If Priest practiced and where is his shrine located?

for some reasons i wont mention his name. but he is a prominent babalawo in ijebu igbo.
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by denex: 12:50pm On Jul 19, 2007
I want to consult with him. But since you won't give his identity, which I didn't ask for anyway, tell me what rituals you were engaged in how they were carried out, to what Orisha, and what did you aim to achieve?
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by mrferlie(m): 9:13pm On Jul 19, 2007
denex:

I want to consult with him. But since you won't give his identity, which I didn't ask for anyway, tell me what rituals you were engaged in how they were carried out, to what Orisha, and what did you aim to achieve?
what do you aim to acheive after telling you all these? Ifa power is inferior to christ that is all you need know.
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by denex: 11:31pm On Jul 19, 2007
I just Want to know the extent of this your "experience" of Ifa system of worship.
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by mrferlie(m): 11:58pm On Jul 19, 2007
I was initiated in 1982 thru a process called ESETAYE and later IMORI. I was AWO ELEKAN until i left the syetem 1992.
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by MP007(m): 4:25am On Jul 20, 2007
mr ferlie:

I was initiated in 1982 through a process called ESETAYE and later IMORI. I was AWO ELEKAN until i left the syetem 1992.
mr ferlie, i live in dallas, i dont know where ur adress is, abi naija don get strreet for d-town?
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by omotawede(m): 2:21pm On Aug 03, 2007
I hope that this message reaches all Yoruba people and practitioners of the Yoruba peoples faith in good health.

The Traditional religion of Yoruba people should not be accepted by Africans only because it is their religion, it should be accepted because it is Truth. And by that, I mean Truth for all people. That is why Oyinbo like myself (who is not of Yoruba descent) place our heads to the ground in honor of Òrìşánlá, The GREAT Deity and the other òrìşa.

There is plenty of exoteric knowledge available to anyone who would like to learn. And there is plenty of oral literature that has been written down. The only thing that is different from religions of the "book" is that we have not organized (like at the council of Nicea) to select and choose which oriki literature, which Sango Pipe, Oosa Piple, Ijala and Ese Ifa will make it into a final version. This is because we humans do not presume, like Christianity did, that we can decide which words of Olorun should be taught, and which ones should not.

Ifa has gotten the most attention by anthropologists which has served as a spring-board for aborisa to promote Ifa as the comparable of Christian/Jewish/Muslim written text. This is good. But aborisa must also learn about their own family deity, and collect Ijala, oriki, pipe and publish it in length so the full scope of Yoruba genius, and the deity of the Original people can be seen.

Does Oosa Pipe not provide sufficient moral teaching that is applicable for any civilization? Yes. How about Ijala Ogun? YES. How many creators could have had a hand in creating me? ONLY ONE. Obatala, Obatarisa Ajala aiye, alamorere, mori mori ti, mori omo titun /the King who wears white cloth, King of all deities, Creator of the Earth, He who moulds (people) with choice clay, He who moulds the heads of new born children. Obatala is not the moulder of idols, he is the moulder of Man Kind.

And Yoruba religion DID NOT COME FROM EGYPT. It is bad scholarship to say so. It is not in Ifa, it is not in Obatala literature, and the linguistic and archeological evidence does not support it. Maybe some people want to think that their religion came from the lighter skinned Egyptians because they built pyramids and had writing. But its not true, and whatever we as religous people say, MUST BE TRUE so that the irunmole will bless us.

Heeepa Orisa Oooooo
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by Barkay: 1:45pm On Sep 09, 2007
Hi Idinrete, this is for you:
Sinmi titi lawo sinmi titi,
Sinmi Jina lawo sinmi Jina,
Oni sinmi Jina ki o ba mi de'le mi lohun,
Difa fun Olu Oyibo omo agba'pa l'apa,
Omo agbe're lori ire,
Omo oni fafa aje,
Ara t'Oyibo nda loko ole b'aje,
Pipele lo npele si,
Olu Oyibo wa fun mi la're temi,
Ewa wo Idin aminleke.

You are born traveller, and you'll definitely have a lot to do with the white people. You are creative and do things people will marvel at, riches will come through this and you'll continue to soar.

I'll enjoy with you oooooooooo!

Best of luck.

Barkay
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by IDINRETE: 8:42pm On Sep 09, 2007
aboru aboye abosise

ose pupo fun Odu-Ifa verse
Orunmila Bara mi Agbonmiregun a gbo ti e o Irunmale a tun ti e se o
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by NegroNtns(m): 2:22am On Apr 13, 2009
I have been looking for this for months, the link between IFA Corpus and binary technology. Enjoy it.


http://www.valdostamuseum.org/hamsmith/VodouFA.html
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by NegroNtns(m): 2:31am On Apr 13, 2009
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by ThiefOfHearts(f): 2:35am On Apr 13, 2009
ekuse o.
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by NegroNtns(m): 3:17am On Apr 13, 2009
Ah, kini? Oh my God, TOH is back in action! Yepa ripa! Babe, I missed you. Whats going on?
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by ThiefOfHearts(f): 4:11am On Apr 13, 2009
oniro oshi. angry
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by wirinet(m): 10:32am On Apr 13, 2009
I am so happy today reading the posts in this thread. It shows that there is a glimmer of hope for the black man to escape completely from slavery.
Although the damage done by physical slavery was great, the damage done by mental and spiritual slavery was even far greater. So much so that my people believes, they had no history, no tradition, no technology, etc before the coming of the white man, and their religions and traditions were demonic (even when the white man's religion was predicated on blood, wars, sacrifices etc ). And i say that we cannot develop if we do not know who we are by throwing away all the legacies of our ancestors and adapt those of foreigners. It was the same thing the white man did to indigenous people of america, they wiped away a whole civilization and almost wiped away the people themself, and today they have completely forgotten their rich religions that served them for thousands of years and replaced it with Christianity.

Most of my people are so enslaved that, their lives would lost all meanings once the prison walls are removed (the lies of the white mans religion removed). These people are afraid to research the way the religion came into our tribes. I can tell you that the people of the Niger Delta were the first to come in contact with the missionaries, but most tribes refused the new religion and had to be converted by force (remember the Bini Kingdom) while stealing our treasures in the process.

Although i am not Yoruba, and I am not even a theist, but I know that Ifa religion gave the Yoruba kingdom stability and peace for hundreds of years unlike Christianity which never gives peace or stability to societies where it is established. So I hope people like omotawede, IDINRETE, denex and co should continue to educate us on Ifa religion, am maybe people will go back to their roots or at least understand their roots.
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by AloyEmeka9: 6:04am On Apr 14, 2009
chineke meere unu ebele.
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by PastorAIO: 11:30am On Apr 14, 2009
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by KunleOshob(m): 3:58pm On Apr 15, 2009
This write ups and links on IFA are truly interesting and amazing, i never knew IFA was this complex and sophisticated but i wonder how was this knowledge preseved though the ages since the ancient yoruba people who are the custodians of IFA had no tradition of documentation and keeping records other than oral. I find it difficult to believe that such volume of complex information could have been handed down orally in an accurate manner.
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by PastorAIO: 8:48pm On Apr 15, 2009
I don't think that they are entirely accurate as one single corpus.  For instance I seen verses that have been attributed to one Odu in a book but attributed to another odu in another book. 

Also I think that the odus in the eastern parts of Yoruba land are slightly different from those in the west.  Like Oyo have their own vibe and the Owo/Benin people have their own vibe and the Ijebus have their own vibe going.  A lot of the differences are just dialect though. 

Also there are many verses that are kept secret because their utterance is believed to be very powerful.  Most of the verses we get in books are the common ones that even the Ogberis (uninitiates) that only know about yoruba culture are familiar with.  There are verses that are only kept within a family because they have incantational powers. 

I'm very interested in the process of how these verses are arrived at because I know for certain that some of those verses were created about 2 or 3 hundred years ago rather than by orunmila.  For instance the verses that mention Guns, or the verses that mention oyinbos.   There are even verses that mention Jesus.  I'm very fascinated by the Mythogenesis process by which these verses emerge and how they get to be accepted by the whole community.
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by anonimi: 1:05am On Apr 16, 2009
Susan Wenger's tribute revisited
By Bayo Jinmi

AFTER reading Damola Awoyokun's article 'The Sanctity of Nothing' (The Guardian, March 5, 2009) it took me sometime before I could bring myself to write this piece. This is because, although he crafted his piece in a beautiful prose, to my mind, most of the points raised in the article left much to be desired. I hail from Osogbo District and at the time Susan Wenger started her mission, I was not too young not to understand what was going on around me. In fact, when I read Prof. Wole Soyinka's tribute, I thought that she deserved more than the encomium the Professor poured on her. But Prof. Niyi Akinnaso's 'The Sanctity of Tributes' (The Guardian, February 18, 2009) made me be at peace with myself.

I cannot say why Susan Wenger first settled in Ede where she was initiated into the Yoruba Esoteric Cult. My guess is that she must have been fascinated by Oba Laoye, the Timi of Ede of the time's cultural awareness. If I was rightly informed, his dexterity on the 'talking drum' was displayed in his recording of "This is the Nigerian Broadcasting Service," which served as he Signature Tune of Radio Nigeria for several years.

Another point that gave support to this guess was that Oba Laoye and Susan Wenger held a joint Exhibition of Yoruba Traditional Religion and Culture in Darmstadt, West Germany in 1962. I visited the Exhibition with some German friends. I was a Medical Student in that country at the time. And as to why he did not do much at Ede, again my guess is that it must be because Ede is a Muslim town. Apart from a small shrine of Sango kept in the Oba's palace, there was no traditional celebrations of importance taking place in that town, unlike Osogbo where River Osun was actively worshipped.

Her first move to save the Grove was to hire some people to build a mud wall to mark out the Grove. And when this did not prevent encroachment by those who wanted to fell the ancient trees for timber, she began another campaign by sending telegraphic SOS messages to the appropriate authority in Lagos to save the Grove. She did not stop until the Federal Government declared the Grove a 'National Monument' and took measures to prevent further encroachment. This perhaps answers the question raised by Awoyokun; whether the grove was dead or dying before Susan Wenger arrived in the country. My view is if it was not already totally dead, it was fast dying. For when I arrived back home in 1978 after about seventeen years abroad, the sacred Grove of my town which as children we were prevented from going near had been swallowed by the town!

Another point that greatly amused me in Awoyokun's article was his comment on traditional religion which he described as 'nothing but superstition that was invented in the primitive age'. I don't think that there is any religion in the world which is more traditional than the Hindu Religion which caters for the souls of over one billion people. In fact, it is so traditional that unlike other religion but very much like our 'Esin Ibile; Esin awon Baba wa,' it has neither prophet nor founder. And as a famous Hindu Philosopher Ramaswami Aiyar put it: "Hinduism is simultaneously monotheistic and idolatrous. The monotheists tolerated idols and the idolaters dance before graven images."

Generally, Hinduism abhors the taking of life. And when Mahatma Gandhi, an apostle of non-violence read in the "Gita" (The Hindi Holy Book) for the first time how "Krishna" (Hindu God) was persuading Arjuna who was a member of the warrior caste but who did not want to fight, that he should not shrink from it, 'for there is no higher good for a warrior than a righteous war,' Gandhi did not condemn the Gita which had served his people for centuries because he found some contradictions in it as intellectuals like Awoyokun and company would have done. What the great Soul did was to propound a different interpretation different from what the people were used to, "The Gita is an allegory"; he asserted. "The Gita described the duel that perpetually went on in the minds of mankind. Physical warfare was brought in merely to make the description of the internal duel more alluring". Needless to say that the Indian community with their idol worshipping are more respected in Britain where Awoyokun lives than even intellectuals of his own race.

Greater minds like Lenin, Karl Marx, Nietzsche just to name a few had criticised religion before Mr. Awoyokun. Between 1970 and 1973 at the height of the Cold War, I was practising in West Berlin and I had the opportunity to travel to many countries in Eastern Europe. My observations were that in spite of desperate attempts made by the Communist regime to suppress religion, Poland remained solidly Catholic. Other countries also retained their Churches and Mosques. This experience made me devote some time to the study of Religion. The first question I put to myself was: What is the origin of religion which a vocal minority criticises but the majority of mankind still practise in one form or the other?

Some authority claimed that the origin of religion could be traced to 'the fear of the unknown' or what happens in the nether world! This perhaps explains why all the world's religions have the same reference point in moral conduct. For instance, Christianity teaches; "Always treat others as you would like them to treat you". In Hinduism it is: "Do not do to others what would cause you pain if done to you". Islam teaches: "None of you is a true believer until he loves for his brother that which he loves for himself". Buddhism puts it this way: "Hurt no others in ways that you would find hurtful". And according to the African Traditional Religion: "what you do to others, these will be done to you in return".

Something else caught my attention. I observed that all religions have esoteric sections where genuine seekers meet. Some of these men and women have accomplished the end of evolution in intellectual order and are deriving illumination from the central source of light. In plain language, they have developed their sixth senses and got their third eyes opened. Consequently, they see beyond the common sight and observe beyond the common field of vision. If Mr. Awoyokun decided to be a genuine seeker and joins one of the esoteric schools in Britain, he may one day experience what he termed "vague clich�" in Professor Soyinka's tribute.

It will be a pity if Mr. Awoyokun believes that every human behaviour can be subjected to objective investigations. For instance in medicine, there are organic diseases, most of which can be subjected to objective tests. On the other hand, there are those diseases which manifest in the body but have no organic origin. Consequently, they can neither be investigated with modern equipments nor subjected to Laboratory investigations. In this regard, the medical profession is eternally grateful to such great minds as Sigmund Freud (1856-1939) and his pupil, Carl Jung who devoted much time to the study of such diseases and introduced into Medicine Psychoanalysis.

Finally, it may probably interest Mr. Awoyokun also to know that every year, hundreds of barren women kneel before that "piece of carved wood with conical bosoms and split Arrow" (god of fertility) begging her to give them children. Those whose prayers are answered come back the following year with their thanks offering. Another thing that may shock intellectuals of Awoyokun's ilk is that just in the same way the Hindus bathe in and drink polluted Ganges River without bad effects, these women give their less than one year old babies water from the polluted River Osun to drink while singing: "Osun nti woo omo re koyinbo to de"! (Osun had been caring for her children before the arrival of Europeans.) Their case can be compared with that leper in Luke 17:19 whom Jesus told: "Go thy way, thy faith hath healed thee".
*Dr. Jinmi lives in Lagos.

[url=http://www.ngrguardiannews.com/editorial_opinion/article04//indexn2_html?pdate=150409&ptitle=Susan%20Wenger's%20tribute%20revisited]Guardian[/url]
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by PastorAIO: 8:32am On Apr 16, 2009
@ Mr. Ferlie
I was initiated in 1982 through a process called ESETAYE and later IMORI. I was AWO ELEKAN until i left the syetem 1992.

You are not telling us the truth and you seem to know little about Ifa system. For one, Esentaye and Imori are pretty much the same ritual and they are not an initiation into Ifa at all but more like a naming ceremony that every yoruba child used to go through.

Read about Esentaye here:
http://www.ileorunmilaoshun.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=147:esentaye-infants-entering-the-world&catid=64&Itemid=60

This the ritual when a new borns feet are first pressed to the earth.

Imori, which gives knowledge of one's Ori is pretty much the same process.

In the past, the parents of a new baby often consulted a diviner on the third day after its birth to find out, among other things, the nature of the baby's inner head and what should be done to preserve a good destiny or to rectify a bad one. This ceremony is called imori (know the head) or ikose waye (the first steps on earth) (Idowu 1995:192).

From here:
http://www.tribalarts.com/feature/lawal/

Traditionally every yoruba child went through this whether they were Awo or Ogberi. The Initiation that makes you a member of the Awo community is called Itefa. In this ceremony you are taken into the Ifa grove called Igbodu.
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by NegroNtns(m): 5:11pm On Apr 17, 2009
PASTOR,

Great to see you, , Iba o!

____________________________________


The system used in Lagos is straight forward and involves the use of
seventeen books, in which the first book is the meji as in the method of
organization used in Ode Remo. The remaining books go through the sequence
with the Odu leg of a particular Odu appearing on the right.

The method from Ode Remo is interesting to me because when it is
written from right to left using the images of Ode it creates the symbol of the
pyramid based on the mathematical angles that create the golden mean which
is represented by the Ifa symbol of the snail
. I cannot believe this is a
coincidence and do believe it is part of the mystery of understanding the nature
and function of Odu a glimpse into hidden awo within the system itself.

Ire
Awo Falokun Fatunmbi


Compare Awo Fatunmbi's conclusion on the sequencing and configurations of Odu IFA with this knowledge conclusion below on Clifford Algebra:


The first thing that I would tell you would be that Clifford algebras
(working over the real numbers and using Euclidean signature)
have the structure of the binomial triangle,
so that the Clifford algebra Cl(n) has structure like:

n Total
Dimension

0 1 2^0 = 1= 1x1
1 1 1 2^1 = 2= 1+1
2 1 2 1 2^2 = 4= 2x2
3 1 3 3 1 2^3 = 8= 4+4
4 1 4 6 4 1 2^4 = 16= 4x4
5 1 5 10 10 5 1 2^5 = 32=16+16
6 1 6 15 20 15 6 1 2^6 = 64= 8x8
7 1 7 21 35 35 21 7 1 2^7 = 128=64+64
8 1 8 28 56 70 56 28 8 1 2^8 = 256=16x16


Clifford algebras Cl(N) for very large N may describe Simplex Physics at the Highest Energies, Cl(N) breaks up into the Periodicity-8 tensor product
Cl(N) = Cl(cool x , N/8 times, x Cl(cool) of N/8 factors, each of which is Cl(cool. Cl(cool is 16x16 = 256-dimensional:

Human divination systems are manifestations of a fundamental way of perceiving phenomena of Life, the Universe, and Everything. The most fundamental (and oldest) such system is IFA, also known as VoDou, which, like the Clifford Algebra Cl(cool, is based on 16x16 = 256 elements. Other systems, such as I Ching, which is based on 8x8=64 elements, seem to me to correspond to subsets of IFA - VoDou.

From Frank Dodd (Tony) Smith. Jr.
_________________________________

Awo Fatunmbi called the 256 Odu a pyramid - which is a three dimensional figure in space. Clifford Algebra whic deals with vectors, spinors and spatial maths and quantum physics calculates the spinor for Cl(cool and comes up with 16x16 =256, and it translates into a pyramid.

This establishes the relationship between IFA, Algebra, Geometry and Spatial Vectors. My next quest will be to find the link between the Egyptian pyramids and IFA, examining Fatunmbi's conclusion that - "it creates the symbol of the pyramid based on the mathematical angles that create the golden mean which is represented by the Ifa symbol of the snail."

If there is a connection, then it will add credibility to the popular claim (including the evidence of Oranmiyan's staff - an obelisk at Ife) that Lamarudu (Al' Marud, Imrod) was an import from the East (Upper Egypt, Kush).
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by NegroNtns(m): 5:18pm On Apr 17, 2009
lol, sorry for the cool dude, that's supposed to be Cl bracket open 8 bracket close. Cl ( 8 )


Seun, emoticons don shpoil the sow , lmao!
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by NegroNtns(m): 4:15pm On Apr 20, 2009
Here is a lecture note. I thought I'd share this.

The lecturer is applying the Odus to explain universal concept of quantum physics but in his illustrations with the wheel, he ended up with a triangle or pyramid.

His triangle is actually a helix - the motion track of a spiral as it transits through space. Compare it with Awo Fatunmbi's "it creates the symbol of the pyramid based on the mathematical angles that create the golden mean which is represented by the Ifa symbol of the snail."

The outline of a snail's shell when viewed laterally is a triangle/pyramid, but from above it is a spiral curve and when the line is traced you will end with a helix.

Go here for more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral. Read the sub-section on symbols. Look at the attached image also.

______________________________________

LECTURE NOTE

The Ogunda, Oyeku etc are Ifa names for Goals, at the very level of creation of the universe, an earlier post explains the names, hidden in with another dicussion, I extract them here,

The top item at the Level of Four can be conceptually viewed as
"Mathematicals": infinity/zero (ogbe/oyeku), compiling/decompiling
(oshe/ofun). Academically inclined people would never get past the
conceptual view of them unfortunately. They are much more than concepts.
Viewed non-conceptually, they are the "tools of reality" we are
observably using to manipulate reality at every moment. (I am conscious in
nearly every moment of using them and I am swimming in a sea of their
functions.)

These four olodus form a wheel of change (which implies two triangles, )
with a definite direction of natural motion around the wheel. They are like
this:

ofun
ogbe oyeku
oshe

With a clockwise direction of natural motion.

Ofun is a span of change, a decompiling of reality using progressively
stronger tools of taking apart starting at ogbe and ending at oyeku:
subtraction, division, and roots.

Oshe is also a span of change (in opposite direction from Ofun), a compiling
of reality using progressively stronger tools of putting together starting
at oyeku and ending at ogbe:
addition, multiplication, and exponents.

Ogbe/oyeku is a polarity of absolutes.
Oshe/ofun is a polarity of relative interactions, working in opposing
directions.

All four items of ogbe-ofun-oyeku-oshe are one function which splits into a
polarity, each of which splits again. So depending on which level you are
viewing, they can be a polarity or not.

Another wheel of four items. The absolutes are iwori (infinite space) and
odi (a singularity). The relatives are irosun (energy in various stages of
motion) and owonrin (energy fields with definite borders or edges). One
datum presenting itself from this is that any enclosed space (not infinite)
is an energy field. Since any field is a contracted space, then the universe
is not one space, but a multitude of interpenetrating spaces.


AN ENERGY FIELD IS CONTRACTED SPACE.

MOTION ENERGY IS EXPANDING SPACE.

MASS IS SPACE FULLY CONTRACTED.

Each item of a wheel is one thing in four conditions: two absolute
conditions and two relative ones.

Here's the wheel of UNIVERSES:

owonrin
iwori odi
irosun

Again a clockwise motion. The top of the circle through owonrin is
contraction and the bottom of the circle through irosun is expansion.

Forget anchor points at this level. Defining space in terms of anchor points
was one of Hubbard's many mistakes. There are no anchor points, and no
non-anchored points, in the level of UNIVERSES. Only Beings use anchors.
Only Beings worry about anchors. Anchors are in the next wheel,


The wheel of AWARENESSES:

ogunda
obara okanran
osa

Again, clockwise natural motion. The absolutes are obara and okanran. I had
the direction backward when I first posted it, so anyone who saved it please
correct the diagram. (This wheel is where I personally have the most case,
and is the most difficult for me to perceive.)

A person in space-time consists of ALL FOUR of these items:
1. an unknowable inner self = obara
2. certainty of inner knowing = okanran
3. an unlocatable viewpoint which cannot ever truely be pinned in one place
= osa
4. anchor points (including those used as viewpoints, which is a polarized
case condition) = ogunda

NEXT:
Because I know you will ask about it, here's the wheel of LIFE:

otura
oturupon ika
irete
Clockwise motion, the absolutes are oturupon and ika.


STUDENT:

uh, huh?
what is the purpose of the wheels?


LECTURER:

to flow form one state to another

think of yer Magik 101.

Earth, Water, Fire, Air, flowing from one to another,


STUDENT:

maybe you should draw me a picture.
in color.


LECTURER:

OK, let's take the first wheel

wheel of change

ofun
ogbe oyeku
oshe

Oshe/Ofun is the polarity of the concept COMPILATION! (to make something up or take it apart)

Ogbe/Oyeku is the polarity of the concept MANIFESTATION! (to Manifest or unmanifest!)

so. let's start at Ogbe. Existing as matter, or existing as SOUL! or Yang,

Ogbe goes through Ofun to Read Oyeku

Ofun is the concept of LIES!and TRUTH! to essentially take matter apart into Spirit (or Yin, or Oyeku)

Oyeku (SPIRIT) goes through Oshe to get to Ogbe

Oyeku is the concept of Sticking things together or Destroying them,

So; Spirit (YOU!) sticks concepts together or decompiles them to create new concepts. This is at the level above this unverse, but also in this universe in yer own *mind*

So; Soul/Matter (YOU!) takes Soul/Matter and creates lies or truths about it to take it onto a spiritual realm,

Actually, yah, this is happening in yer "home Universe" from which Unmanifest Potential Becomes Matter and or Spirit,

so, above the concepts of "Universes' is the mechanism of change. Spirit Into Matter

Here's the wheel of UNIVERSES:

owonrin
iwori odi
irosun
Again a clockwise motion.

These act as the field of play which is the universe itself (from which the first Circle of CREATION acts on)

Iwori/Odi is the polarity of the concept of SPACE!
Owonrin/Irosun is the polarity of the concept of ENERGIES!

Iwori is further the concept of both infinite space AND Collapsed space (a point)

Odi is the polarized concept of both a vacuum and infinte solidity.

Iwori (SPACE) is permeated with Owonrin (Fields)

Odi (DENSE!) is expanded via Irosun (ENERGY FLOW OR expansion!)


SO: infinite space filled with energy. As the Flow "Stop" they become "matter" or Dense. Expanding, Dense "matter" (not the same Matter idea as the above circle) becomes Vacuum which is infinite space

Imagine it as a dance from one part of the circle to the next,


STUDENT:

i drew them out and filled in the layman's terms and it makes a little more sense to me.

but if owonrin = energy then what is irosun? i mean,if you take energy and put it into a vaccum or solidify it what do you get?

the wheel i drew was this
energy flow
infinite/collapsed space vaccum/solidity



LECTURER:

energy field

think of light. It is a particle (a flow) AND a field (waveform)

actually, Owonrin is the field, and Irosun is energy flow

so Field goes on top, flow goes on bottom,

ever read a book about physics and Toaism called "The Dancing Wu LI Masters"? It talks about how particles pop in and out of creation in a vacuum, and how they can actually travel as "anti-particles" backwards in conceptual time,

but yah, that's for later probably smiley


STUDENT:

*blink*
tongue


LECTURER:

You got the idea

Space (expansive) versus Density (a point of nothing)

Fields (static Forces) versus Flow ( particles moving)


STUDENT:

ah-HA!

k.

it was the static vs. moving that i was still missing


LECTURER:

good! you have it,

now explain the last circle to me, The one of Awareness


STUDENT:

i didn't know there was gonna be a quiz!!!


LECTURER:

try it!

use the list i posted up above last post and compare it to the cirlce in this post.

____________________________

Remember what he said, "Academically inclined people would never get past the conceptual view of them unfortunately. They are much more than concepts." It needs intuitive understanding but logical application.

Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by ThiefOfHearts(f): 4:27pm On Apr 20, 2009
Onifa.
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by PastorAIO: 4:47pm On Apr 20, 2009
Negro_Ntns:

Here is a lecture note. I thought I'd share this.

The lecturer is applying the Odus to explain universal concept of quantum physics but in his illustrations with the wheel, he ended up with a triangle or pyramid.


could you explain any of the above in lay terms? I got a bit lost.
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by NegroNtns(m): 6:31pm On Apr 20, 2009
TOH, I'm going to send you an email. Be sure to respond if you don't want to see me in NY tomorrow morning. lol
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by ThiefOfHearts(f): 7:23pm On Apr 20, 2009
who says I dont cheesy
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by NegroNtns(m): 7:28pm On Apr 20, 2009
Pastor,

Honestly, I had to read the explanation of the wheel few times and put it all in perspectives to truly understand whatthe lecturer talked about.


Actually, all three of them, Awo Fatunmbi, Frank Smith and this Lecturer, though expressed independently, are coming to the same conclusion.  

I have not known of any Black nation that indigenously created its own industry or technology.  Black South Africa is enjoying a legacy system left by the White people.  Anywhere you go White nations create the social infrastructures and the road networks that support the local industries.  

So we can agree that there are two types of philosophies - a Black philosophy and a White philosophy.  Okay?

Now Whites take the theoretical principles of knowledge, mixes it with their philosophies and apply it to solve social challenges, this is how they advanace.  

Blacks on the other hand take theoretical principles of knowledge, we mix it with our philosophies and then argue amongst ourselves on whose solution should be adopted.  So we never get to application stage, we are stuck in understanding and troubleshooting.  

IFA has been with us for may many years and for that long White people have dismissed it as pagan worshipping and never cared to study it as a divine scripture.  We, Yorubas never explored its practical applications to solve any of our social challenges.  Time has changed and now White people are interested in indigenous cultures that their colonial fore fathers once dismissed as heathenic practices.  The presence of IFA practitioners amongst Blacks in Americas is helping as well to bring focus and interest.  

Researchers are steadily unravelling the mysteries and hidden instructions in IFA.  Frank Smith for example is a Physics researcher and he said IFA provided to him the solutions to decipher certain challenges in quantum physics.  He contended that Clifford's maths formula is an interpretation of the IFA matrix.  Now, I hope it won't surprise you to know that NASA also uses IFA matrix for space research.  Then there is this lecture where the guy talked about how interpreting certain Odus to mimick motion you can actually construct a helix shaped figure. That figure coincides with the triangle as well as the snail symbol in IFA.  He went further to say that, and this is very important, that one must not study IFA with an academic mind.  That's a code!  What he is saying is that IFA is a mystical order and a scripture, you must approach it with FAITH, whether or not you believe in it, because whatever problem you have, known or unknown, it has the answer for you if you care to take a look.  

There are two universes. The common Universe that we all share, what we call the world.  There is also a personal and individual universe that is unique to each person and is not shared by anyone else.  Each universe contains its own 16 Odus. Each 16 Odu is a duality opposite of the other 16 in the other universe.  Taken together 16x16 = 256, you get the matrix for an individual's path in life - which is self-actualization and social responsibility.  

He also mentioned the four states of being which I interprete as Soul, Mind, Body and Aura.  He equated it to the four astrological elements of Water, Fire, Earth and Wind.  Well, each of those has its own deity in Yoruba culture as well.  

What this guy is leading to, although he restrained himself, is that MAN is god and MAN has free will to propagate but MAN is limited within two polar extremes and a successful propagation comes about only through a balanced and modest way of life, the mid point!  When MAN strays too far from the center and into either extreme end, then he is astray from his destined path and needs consultation with IFA to be redirected to the midway.  He used energy field and mass to explain IWA PELE!

Usually you will expect to see a lecture like this where energy field, mass, matter, space, vacuum, and so on is discussed to make references to Einstein's equation on energy and Isaac Newton's law of relativity but instead he is making references to Odus to express same knowledge that Isaac and Einstein made popular.  

We are sitting on a universal knowledge database.
Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by NegroNtns(m): 7:32pm On Apr 20, 2009
Lmao, don't mind me, I was looking for reasons to come to NY.

I will write later when I get home. As usual my boss is still a busybody,

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